OUR PLATFORM DRAFT
Started by: Albmore 8 months, 4 weeks agoGroup Conversation From:
The 4th Party
We are a group forming a new politcal party. Where you decide everything. Your thoughts,YOUR ideas, on YOUR future.
" VOTE EM OUT 2010"
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Albmore8 months, 4 weeks ago
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We, the Citizens undersigned here in partisan effort, have agreed that the following is true.
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The two party system has locked the United States government in a situation that is antithetical to the spirit of Republican Democracy which is the basis of our nation. We feel that the only sound solution is for a new voice to enter the field. A voice based not in adversarial gamesmanship, but in the concepts of Constitutional doctrine, individual liberty, and responsible governance.
To this end we have formed the ____ party based on the following principles:
We require representatives who consider issues based on Constitutional legality, viability, and efficiency not ideological scorekeeping.
We require criminal laws that deal with interpersonal offenses and do not interfere with personal decisions or legislate morality.
We require fiscal policy that is based on sound money management and not promoting personal agendas to the detriment of the national coffers.
We require economic laws that do not interfere with the ability to conduct legitimate business, but clearly define illegitimate business and provide oversight for assuring that the lines are being maintained.
We require social policy that allows Citizens to share the burden of common needs without deciding for Citizens how they shall approach the details of handling those needs.
We require military strategy designed to defend our nation from attack, not to build an international empire.
We require a foreign policy designed to promote fair trade and good diplomatic relations, not to remake sovereign nations in our own image.
We require accountability for our representatives in the government.
It is our intent to serve our principles, and those Citizens who agree with us, in the halls of American government. We intend to reform the corrupted system with policies based on these principles. It is our goal to fulfill the American dream of a nation where the only difference between Citizens can be found within themselves. -
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CHAM8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Excellent Albmore.
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I see us as a Party that espouses a Government that serves the people, not as a government that the people are forced to serve.
"As long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost" - Marcel Proust -
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truthiness8 months, 3 weeks ago
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I must say I am surprised that there has been no criticisms. I know I wrote this based on prior conversations this group had, but I can't believe everyone agrees with me.
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please offer up any commentary on statements you would like to see added or subtracted.-
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ind066 months, 2 weeks ago
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OK, I wasn't involved in the conversations you're speaking of but if I was I'd have said that most laws are by definition an attempt to legislate morality. What is illegal is usually made so because it is considered "bad", for instance, the illegality of marijuana usage, the illegality of defamation of character, the illegality of libel and slander. The section on criminal laws sounds good but I think it's vague.
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Well, that's what I think... Guess that's why I wasn't invited to the planning meeting... grumble grumble there oughta be a law...-
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truthiness6 months, 2 weeks ago
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everyone was invited, only some attended. you are always welcome my friend.
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I suppose you could say murder is illegal because it is bad, but the argument I would make is that it is illegal because it harms another person which is a crime against society.
smoking marijuana harms no other and therefore the only reason to make it illegal is because it is bad... that is legislating morality.
if you think it is vague, you may have a good point, but don't stop there.... how would you fix it?
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FrankHummel8 months, 3 weeks ago
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A few recommendations-
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We, the Citizens undersigned here in partisan effort, have agreed that the following is true.
The two party system has locked the United States government in a situation that is antithetical to the spirit of Republican Democracy which is SUPPOSED TO BE the basis of our nation. We feel that the only sound solution is for a new voice to enter the field. A voice based not in adversarial gamesmanship, but in the concepts of Constitutional doctrine, individual liberty, and responsible governance.
To this end we have formed the ____ party based on the following principles:
We require representatives who consider issues based on Constitutional legality, viability, and efficiency not ideological AGGRANDIZEMENT.
We require criminal laws that deal with interpersonal offenses and do not interfere with personal decisions or legislate morality.
We require fiscal policy that is based on sound money management and not promoting personal , CORPORATE, OR OTHER INSTITUTIONAL agendas to the detriment of the national coffers.
We require economic laws that do not interfere with the ability to conduct legitimate business, but clearly define illegitimate business and provide MEANINGFUL oversight for assuring that the lines are being maintained.
We require social policy that allows Citizens to share the burden of common needs without deciding for Citizens how they shall approach the details of handling those needs.
We require military strategy designed to defend our nation from attack, not to build an EXPLICIT, OR EVEN A DE FACTO, international empire.
We require a foreign policy designed to promote fair trade and good diplomatic relations, not to remake sovereign nations in our own image.
We require accountability AND TRANSPARENCY OF our representatives in the government.
It is our intent to serve our principles, and those Citizens who agree with us, in the halls of American government. We intend to reform the corrupted system with policies based on these principles. It is our goal to fulfill the American dream of a nation where the only differenceS between Citizens can be found within themselves.
Herzliche Glückwunsch!
Frank Hummel -
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FrankHummel8 months, 3 weeks ago
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We, the Citizens undersigned here in partisan effort, have agreed that the following is true.
Reply
The two party system has locked the United States government in a situation that is antithetical to the spirit of Republican Democracy which is SUPPOSED TO BE the basis of our nation. We feel that the only sound solution is for a new voice to enter the field. A voice based not in adversarial gamesmanship, but in the concepts of Constitutional doctrine, individual liberty, and responsible governance.
To this end we have formed the ____ party based on the following principles:
We require representatives who consider issues based on Constitutional legality, viability, and efficiency not ideological AGGRANDIZEMENT.
We require criminal laws that deal with interpersonal offenses and do not interfere with personal decisions or legislate morality.
We require fiscal policy that is based on sound money management and not promoting personal , CORPORATE, OR OTHER INSTITUTIONAL agendas to the detriment of the national ECONOMIC WELL-BEING.
We require economic laws that do not interfere with the ability to conduct legitimate business, but clearly define illegitimate business and provide MEANINGFUL oversight for assuring that the lines are being maintained.
We require social policy that allows Citizens to share the burden of common needs without deciding for Citizens how they shall approach the details of handling those needs.
We require military strategy designed to defend our nation from attack, not to build an EXPLICIT, OR EVEN A DE FACTO, international empire.
We require a foreign policy designed to promote fair trade and good diplomatic relations, not to remake sovereign nations in our own image.
We require accountability AND TRANSPARENCY OF our representatives in the government.
It is our intent to serve our principles, and those Citizens who agree with us, in the halls of American government. We intend to reform the corrupted system with policies based on these principles. It is our goal to fulfill the American dream of a nation where the only differenceS between Citizens can be found within themselves. -
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steveswb6 months, 2 weeks ago
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how about a party that stands for this:
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1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government, nor prohibited by the Constitution to the states, is reserved to the states or to the people;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.-
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Sir_Cumference4 months, 4 weeks ago
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I was invited to join this group, and in performing my due diligence before deciding, I came across this thread. I was not thrilled after reading the proposed platform, but when I read steveswb's proposal, I thought, "Ok, I can live with THIS (excluding the "foreign alliances" phrase in #7)."
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However, the responses to his post suggest that he and I are not exactly in sync with this proposed 4th party. I agree with fredricwilliams below; steveswb's platform is not libertarian as I understand the term. I would call it a federalist platform instead. (And don't knee-jerk react to the "federal" in federalist--the term can be best summarized by plank #6 above.)
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srsyson6 months, 2 weeks ago
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If this party is to be centrist, then it will have to espouse a populist position.
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Adopting the steveswb's Republican platform, that they admittedly mostly ignore, is too Religious Right to be centrist....He needs party #5....
Unfortunately the "People's" Party has bad ideological connotations on the Left....But that's what it should be..... -
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rob79926 months, 2 weeks ago
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I completely agree that the two Party system is not good.
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You should take the World's Smallest Political Quiz on theadvocates.org.
It has five different parties; Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian, Statist, and Centrist.
You may find that there is already a different party that's right for you.
Steveswb you may want to look into the Libertarian party; along with anyone else who agrees with him. -
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richsuth6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Politics is about the possible, not the perfect. Third and fourth parties rarely gain power at the national level. A model for what to do is to do what the evangelical Christians did in infiltrating the Republican Party. Had the Green Party worked to infiltrate and influence the Democratic Party, it could have avoided the greatest catastrophe in this nation's electoral history. Obama is now the nation's president, being put forward by the Democratic Party. Work from within one of the major parties, though at this time it appears that there is only one major political party as the Republican Party continues to slide into irrelevancy. It is a phenomenon that I predicted in my book published last year, a book that also foretold the gang raping of the American economy, by whom, how and when. Check into "None Dare Call It Reason; How the Average American Has Hanged Himself." It's available online from all major book stores.
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fredricwilliams4 months, 4 weeks ago
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As someone who has been close to libertarians for nearly 50 years, I would not suggest that "steveswb" be considered libertarian. Monogamy and abortion aren't clearly libertarian positions, claiming divine authority is not necessarily libertarian, and states' rights is really only a weak anti-government position -- while some libertarians espouse this, it has little philosophical basis, since states can be as anti-liberty as the federal government.
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However "steveswb" should call out attention to the real problem of a 4th Party (is Nader the 3rd Party?): we have about 212 million people eligible to vote, and in 2008 about 132 million actually voted. They have, roughly, 132 miliion opinions. Platforms that are specific will drive away voters -- the more specific, the more will be driven away. "Steveswb" may believe things that others don't -- the ideal platform allows him to agree about the items that are stated, but does not add other things which he (and others) may approve. The goal is not to begin 132 million political parties.
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srsyson6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Actually, the hanging was done by our existing two-party system, since both parties are beholding to the existing infrastructure.
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The Democrats are supported by unions, who destroyed the economy by being so greedy that most manufacturers shipped jobs overseas....
The Republicans are supported by major corporations who destroyed the economy by shipping jobs overseas and leaving consumers jobless....
We just went to WalMart and bought all that crap....-
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willottica6 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't believe the unions destroyed the economy through greed. I think that corporations did - they became so large that their employees were no longer humans, just pieces of a money-making puzzle (this applies to LARGE unions, also).
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The biggest problem unions encountered was scab labor. Scabs have always destroyed the power of unions, and this was curtailed in the past by picket lines that the scabs would not cross. By building factories overseas, the company has isolated their scabs from the unions, allowing them to be bypassed. The unions didn't catch on.
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Albmore6 months, 2 weeks ago
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I believe NOW more than any other time in OUR nations history an outside party had a chance. YES, we are not alone. We need to build OUR party and keep a close eye on other independent parties agreeing on OUR issues. We need to support each others run. I DO NOT wish that the 4th parties goal is one of a quest of power. I congress full of parties like OURs taking away the dominance of these two parties is what we need. Then we can serve on the issues and not personal party gain.
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AbuAmirahComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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ClydePRM4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Gun rights is key. It is a personal right to keep and bear arms. The percentage of guns used for criminal purposes is de minimus in this country.
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You asked about immigration. The wording needs to be more eloquent, but the concept is this: We are a country founded upon immigration. All societies prosper when new citizens join and contribute - regardless of their birthplace. But immigration is likewise something that should be managed in a reasonable and respectful manner. -
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fredricwilliams4 months, 4 weeks ago
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For immigration, why not open borders to the citizens of all countries which allow our citizens the same rights. Citizenship, however, might have additional requirements.
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As for gun rights, why not resolve the conflict by re-establishing peace-keeping militias in every community so that the Constitutional legitimacy of gun ownership will be established for all qualified citizens.-
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fredricwilliams4 months, 3 weeks ago
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Why do you believe someone needs to take care of people who have the courage, the ambition, and the will to travel from their country to ours? Who takes care of us -- who takes care of the native-born citizens who lack the courage and ambition to move away from their home neighborhood?
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In a free society, people take care of themselves. Under current immigration law, legal immigrants must have an employed, tax-paying sponsor who agrees to repay any expenditures made by government to support the immigrant for up to ten years.
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fredricwilliams4 months, 4 weeks ago
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The proposed principles for the platform are good, but I have trouble understanding this:
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:We require social policy that allows Citizens to share the burden of common needs without deciding for Citizens how they shall approach the details of handling those needs."
We are allowed to share what burden, exactly? What needs does this platform item address?-
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truthiness3 days, 11 hours ago
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eg. education- the fed should provide funding without mandating specific curriculum items or tests, that sort of detail belongs to the state or local.
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health care-it is one thing to regulate the insurance industry (current bills) and another to administrate care (europe)
in other words, if the people desire the fed to provide assistance in a certain area, that should come in the form of macro not micro management.
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