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Palestinian Opposes Provisional State »
Posted by: populist 2 years, 9 months agoSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, pledging deeper engagement in the Middle East peace process, met today with Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, who rejected suggestions for establishing a temporary state within provisional borders and pledged that any American funds to bolster his security forces would not be abused.
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Comments: 141
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tehranchik
Jan. 14, 2007, 2:28 p.m.These very same promises have been made over and over to the Palestinians, never to be kept. Why are there Israeli settlements on land that was for Palestinians? Why are they building walls through Palestinian farms, bulldozing Palestinian homes? Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians--what would you be willing to do to save your future?
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Edmar15
Jan. 14, 2007, 6:35 p.m.Palestinian Land? Before 1967 it was Jordanian Land, before that, British Mandate land, before that, Ottoman Land. There has never been a Palestinian State except for the one established by the British in 1922 on 2/3 of Palestine- Jordan. Walls? You are a victim of Propoganda, Go see for yourself, it will only cost you the price of a plane ticket. There is a small section of wall, the rest is a fence like the one on the Lebanon border, and it was built to keep suicide bombers and terrorists out, and it works for the most part. Sad that it had to happen, but had the powers that be in the West Bank and Gaza not permitted terrorist suicide bombings, the fence would never have been built through "Palestinian farms". There was no need for a wall or fence or whatever for over 30 years. You think you have the answers, you don't even have the questions.
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flyrod
Jan. 15, 2007, 9:39 a.m.Why are the Palestinians so hell bent on destroying Israel?
Why do the Palestinians continue to shoot rockets and kidnap people even when there is peace talks going on. Hezbollah doesn't want peace. They have no hold on the people if there is peace. Disarm and talk. The Israeli people want peace.
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Edmar15
Jan. 14, 2007, 6:50 p.m.Funny how nobody seemed to feel badly for the poor Palestinians when they were impoverished under Jordanian and Egyptian rule. You want the real truth, try talking to the Arab shopkeepers in the Arab Market in Jerusalem. They want no part in being repatriated into a Palestinian state. And they have some very outspoken reasons why. Under Palestinian rule, they will live worse than they lived under Jordanian Rule, and they make no bones about it. But then again, they live under Israeli rule now, and they have the freedom to talk about it.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 8:41 a.m."Funny how nobody seemed to feel badly for the poor Palestinians when they were impoverished under Jordanian and Egyptian rule. "
An excellent observation, but take it a bit further....why were there no calls for a "Palestinian State" when Egypt and Jordan controlled the territories? Why was there no terrorism against those countries?
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Natureboy
Jan. 15, 2007, 9:31 a.m.Zionist propaganda. Gay in drerd.
Palestine went from being a protectorate under the Ottoman turkish empire to being under the Brits at the end of WWI. It was taken by the Zionists by force, not magnanimously given to the Zionists by the UN.
For fun, google the "Stern Gang" and the "Irgun" and read about the ORIGINAL middle-eastern terrorists.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 8:10 a.m.For every statement supporting the Palestinian right to live there are five in opposition. It's like a campaign to snuff out truth about real-life every-day conditions there. Then you get the "the wall has reduced terror bombings" arguement and so forth and so on. Lobbys and organised saturation comment-bombings are indeed effective.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 8:21 a.m."For every statement supporting the Palestinian right to live there are five in opposition."
It's not a question about the Arabs "right to live". The question is, why are the Arabs complaining when some people object to their murdering Jews.
"It's like a campaign to snuff out truth about real-life every-day conditions there."
Your assumption that Arab propoganda is the truth is telling. But since the propoganda is published, there's no reason to complain about "snuffing out the truth".
"Then you get the "the wall has reduced terror bombings" arguement and so forth and so on."
I am not in favor of the wall, but it has reduced terror bombings. Are you in favor of that or not?
"Lobbys and organised saturation comment-bombings are indeed effective"
"saturation comment-bombings"? LOL....you are something, aren't you?
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:01 a.m.Cherev: visit these sites;
http://abcnews.go.com/International/CSM/story?id=2
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/17230
I'll entertain your comments ... sites have short stories from reputable sources.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:30 a.m."Cherev: visit these sites;"
Thank you, but no. ABC news is not a reputable news source. Don't know about the other site, but doubt that it fairly presents anything.
"I'll entertain your comments"
After failing to entertain my responses to your comments, you promise to entertain them after I've viewed more Arab propoganda? Thanks. I'll pass.
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flyrod
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:03 a.m.Natureboy, No one is condoning the acts of either side. The Palestinians are simply reaping what they have sown. Disarm and talk peace. Don't expect sympathy from a world that has witnessed this insanity for so long.
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Natureboy
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:18 a.m.Stop practicing kosher apartheid and talk peace.
Stop bulldozing orchards and talk peace.
Give back the land you have stolen and talk peace.
Stop calling Arabs "schwartzes" and talk peace.
End the RACISM and talk peace.
Act more like Hillel, less like Hitler and you will HAVE peace!
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:07 a.m.First of all, the minute you used the word apartheid, your arguements became propoganda. The definition of apartheid relates solely to the South African treatment of it's black population. No where else was that word ever coined or used. If you're looking for a simile to apartheid, then look at the arab treatment of it's women and non muslim populations within the arab borders. In Israel, the Arabs can vote, hold public office and women can become prime ministers. The Palestinians aren't citizens of Isreal, and as such cannot have the same rights. The rest of the world practices the same rules of citizenship, except in the Arab countries.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:59 a.m.You are a 'Don't confuse me with the facts - my mind is already made up' sort of person. It is absolutely useless to discuss this issue with you. What the hell is your agenda? Since when is ABC news not a valid news source. Share with me what news sources you revere. This entire thread seems to be Israeli support propaganda. There has been, to my memory, only one Israeli Prime Minister who really tried to find a solution ... he was assinated.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:09 a.m."You are a 'Don't confuse me with the facts - my mind is already made up' sort of person."
As are you.
"It is absolutely useless to discuss this issue with you."
If you want to shut up and go away, I won't stop you.
"What the hell is your agenda?"
The truth.
"Since when is ABC news not a valid news source."
Since they're biased in favor of the Arabs - as are most major news media.
"Share with me what news sources you revere. This entire thread seems to be Israeli support propaganda."
Maybe you'd be more comfortable on an Arab propoganda thread? The story deals with the fact that the Arabs aren't willing to accept anything less than "full statehood". If that's "Israeli support propoganda" to you, then it's not me who's mind isn't open.
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Daylight
Jan. 15, 2007, 10:59 a.m.flyrod
Why are the Palestinians so hell bent on destroying Israel?
Why do the Palestinians continue to shoot rockets and kidnap people even when there is peace talks going on. Hezbollah doesn't want peace. They have no hold on the people if there is peace. Disarm and talk. The Israeli people want peace.
Because they want their land back and kick the fascist Israel out, as long as Israel exists there won't be peace, Israeli people want more land and killing, Palestinian kidnapped only one Israeli soldier and illegal state of Israel holds more than 10000 thousand Palestinians, those rockets are a little better than rocks; the wall Israel built is worse than the Berlin wall. Perhaps suicide bombings is a necessary evil, against an evil regime called Israel
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:11 a.m."as long as Israel exists there won't be peace"
And there you have it. Exterminate the Jews is what these people really want. And once they're done in Israel, they'll go after them in other places. And when they're done with the Jews, it will be other "infidels". The Muslim agenda is plain.
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flyrod
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:12 a.m.Daylight, buddy you are not even in the ballpark. Describing Israel as a facist state is ignorant. The kidnappings have been going on for a long time and the last time there were two. Disarm and talk Peace.....
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:19 a.m.Illegal state? Palestinian Land? Get your history straight. 2/3 of Palestine was turned into the Kingdom of Jordan by the British in 1922 to be a Palestinian state for the arabs. The rest was suppose to be given to the Jews as a homeland as well. The UN farther partitioned that small piece of property into arab and Jewish land in 1947. It was the arabs who refused and attacked the jews. To them it is all or nothing, even though much of the land was purchased by the jews between 1890 and 1930 from it's arab owners. The deeds are still on record. It's no different today. Unless all land in the middle east is arab land there will still be a problem. I don't see anybody giving the deeds to their houses back to the indian tribes from which the land that the house sits on was stolen from. Hypocrites.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:28 a.m.Got news for you, Edmar: "The definition of apartheid relates solely to the South African treatment of it's black population. No where else was that word ever coined or used." WRONG !! The term applies to any group or nation that excludes/discriminates others from full participation in a society. Israels' treatment of Palestinians has earned that distinguished title. Apartheid.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:33 a.m."Israels' treatment of Palestinians has earned that distinguished title. Apartheid."
OK, explain. You cannot make this claim against Israeli Arabs because they do fully participate. And they claim to be "Palestians". As to the Arabs in the liberated territories, 98% of them are currently under control of the PA. So they can fully participate in "Palestinian society". By your own definition, I don't understand how you can claim the Israelis are practicing Apartheid.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:42 a.m."The term applies to any group or nation that excludes/discriminates others from full participation in a society."
By the way, do you have the integrity to apply this standard to any Arab societies?
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:06 p.m.Webster's dictionary definition applys specifically to SOuth Africa' policy. And, the Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens, so the term apartheid wouldn't apply. They aren't entitled to any of the rights of citizenship. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with every country in the world. Citizenship is required in most countries to vote, hold public office and recieve all of the other niceties that citizens enjoy. Unless you happen to be a woman or non muslim in an arab country. So don't talk to me about apartheid until your arab brethren change their policies on women and non muslims.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:51 a.m."By the way, do you have the integrity to apply this standard to any Arab societies?"
Apply this standard to any society. The shoe fits ... you cannot acquit.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 11:53 a.m.But you only complain about Israel...that shoe fits as well.
Moreover, you can't justify your remarks...that shoe fits too.
You're exposed.
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:10 p.m.Love your well thought out comments, Cherev. The problem with arab sympathizers, is that their copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is out of date to most of the world.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:13 p.m.Thank you, Edmar15! I've enjoyed your posts as well.
I don't understand people like rumple4skin. The Arabs are obviously interested in wiping out the Jews. They've said so on numerous occasions. Yet, people like rumple4skin are reluctant to be open and honest about their agenda. I have more respect for Daylight. He openly advocates extermination....although he only advocates it against Israel - for now. I have no doubt that if Israel were destroyed, he would advocate against others as well.
I must disagree with your assessment of "most of the world". They did nothing to stop the Holocaust the last time. I think they would gleefully watch the Arabs exterminate the Jews of Israel.
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:14 p.m.Apartheid
5Afrik,
the state of being separate. the official policy (c. 1950-91) of strict racial segregation and discrimination against nonwhites practiced in South Africa.
STRAIGHT FROM WEBSTERS
DICTIONARY DEFINITION.
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:23 p.m.Maybe the 4skin is the problem. No Moyal. Actually, the European population since the Holocaust has not been blatently anti-semetic. Saw a wonderful PBS documentary last week on anti-sematism in the 21st century. Most of the anti-semitism is coming from the arab immigrants, fueled by the arab governments in the Middle East. The Vatican has played a large part in supressing anti-semitism in Europe, however, what you are hearing, according to this documentary, is not coming from the European population as a whole. The Arab countries got inflammed by the Mohammed cartoons from Denmark, but regularly post anti Jewish and anti Christian cartoons in their newspapers. And the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are still published and taught in every country in the Arab world. Europe has dismissed that book as propoganda nonsense.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:26 p.m.Interesting, assuming that the PBS documentary wasn't sanitized for American consumption. Thanks for the update.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:43 p.m.Cherey ... it's either your way or the hi-way. My shoe fits. I don't have any foot problems. I'm not trying to fit a size six foot into a size twelve shoe. Continue to dominate the thread with your closed mind. Have fun.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:45 p.m.Good riddance to another ...well, we don't have to call names now do we...we all know what you are.
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:44 p.m.I don't know what is or isn't sanitized anymore, I guess it depends on what we choose to believe. After all, don't news channels fight for ratings? PBS, thank goodness relys on donations and I've found that most of their programming is unbiased and meant to be factual. Someone isn't always going to like the facts as portrayed, but I think that for the most part, PBS is above reproach. THat has been my experience with them.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:49 p.m."I've found that most of their programming is unbiased and meant to be factual."
I've found that when they're trying to get donations from their Jewish sources, they tend to be more unbiased...however, they have had some misleading programming in the past. Check out the CAMERA web site. http://www.camera.org/ and search on PBS. Or, go here...
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=3&x_outl
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:50 p.m.Rumple, it's not trying to fit a size 6 foot into a size 12 shoe that's the problem. There's plenty of room there, it's trying to fit the size 6 foot into the size 3 shoe that causes the pain. Cherev was just pointing out how painfully poor your thought processes are.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:51 p.m.It's easier to "drive by", accuse others of being "close-minded", etc., and then cut-and-run, as opposed to taking a good look at your own bigotry.
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Edmar15
Jan. 15, 2007, 12:57 p.m.Somewhere along the line, there has to be someone or something that is trustworthy. I think that most of main stream America supports Israel and for a variety of reasons. I don't intend to maintain that everyone in the US supports Israel, but for the most part, and especially after 9/11 Israel isn't a pariah here.
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Iwasthinking
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:13 p.m.Why do people uneqivocally take sides in this conflict when it is clear as day that both sides are wrong and have no claim to moral superiority or legal and historical vindication? The Palestinians through their continued use of violence and uncompromising stance against the existance of Israel, and the Israelis through their use of violence and occupation of previously agreed upon Palestinian land, just continue to escalate the cycle of violence and hatred. The sad part is that a lot of people on both sides are tired of the violence and want peace, but the hard-liners on both sides are preventing it and ineffect holding the rest hostage in the conflict.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:42 p.m.They only called for peace AFTER the Jews won the land in a defensive war. Before that, and since, they've tolerated terrorism against Jews but scream "terrorism" when the Jews want to fight for their land. Had the British honored the Balfour declaration instead of closing the doors to those trying to escape Hitler, there would have been no Jewish "terrorism".
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:40 p.m.If you agree that Jews, and only Jews, have no right to live on the planet, then you are also taking sides. This moral equivalency between Israelis trying to live in peace and the Arabs trying to exterminate them is the cause of the problem.
If the Arabs were truly interested in their own state, why didn't they demand one from the Egyptians and the Jordanians whent they controlled the area. It was only when the Jews won the land in a defensive war, that the world began to moan about the "rights" of these "people". The hatred for the Jew continues.
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ouzie-q
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:45 p.m.Of course any overture to peace is rejected, this has been the case for years. The Palestinians have to keep the extortion running...the con moving forward.
How else can they continue to play the victim and collect billions in the world's greatest hustle?
We all have seen them go at each others throats this year when a small portion of their international scam money was cut off.
Hamas and Fatah in the streets like rabid dogs butchering each other for sport; apparently it's all they seem to know.
Can anyone see they need to join civilization and develop their own economy; yet everytime a chance is dangled they turn away?
Yet the terror tubbies here and abroad continue to blame Israel. I say hold these seventh century Islamic murder cartels to a new, higher standard.
Pathetic...every last ski masked, AK-47 toting one of them.
*PATOOIE*
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ouzie-q
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:53 p.m.Take a look at the massive amount of Money siphoned off the PLO by the great "Yessir A$$HAT."(read Yasser Arafat)
The "Father of Modern Terrorism" was even keeping mistressess in Paris and subsidizing their Love at 40,000USD a month. Hey, It's good to be the king of an international extortion game.
All this talk of Israel is rubbish, pure and simple hatemongering for an intellectual people who built an oasis in the desert and actually created a gross domestic product.
What the hell have Palestinians done but invent bomb vests and exhalt common murders as heroes??
Palestine reaps what it sows everyday.
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Daylight
Jan. 15, 2007, 1:58 p.m.flyrod
Daylight, buddy you are not even in the ballpark. Describing Israel as a facist state is ignorant.
I am sorry buddy I am a bit late but if you want peace Israel must be disarmed, United States must stop supporting Israel, we are not against the Jews, we are against the European white skin converted Jews, who are the students of Nazi Germany, now they are teaching the Palestinians what they learned from Hitler, when I see the face of Olmet or Saron I know they have nothing to do with anybody in that region, they have never even dreamed of establishing a country called Israel, just tell me where were Olmet's forefathers buried in Palestine, the place called Europe where they were buried, they are occupiers they should be asked to leave, People are getting fed up with the Zionist propaganda, tell us were did they live 3000 years ago in the land called Palestine, these European Jews had no place to live, they were actually kicked out by Germany.
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Daylight
Jan. 15, 2007, 2:13 p.m.Edmar15
Illegal state? Palestinian Land? Get your history straight. 2/3 of Palestine was turned into the Kingdom of Jordan by the British in 1922 to be a Palestinian state for the arabs. The rest was suppose to be given to the Jews as a homeland as well.
We are not retards to listen to your stories, Israel was established by force after kicking out the Palestinians from their homes as a result millions of them were rendered homeless, that is the history we should talk about, those black Jews in Israel are second class Jews the were living with Palestine and their were Christians too the problem with the Christian world is that they are the slaves of the Jews and they are brain washed by them, the Palestine was not without people for Israel to become a sovereign country, and there were millions of people, if you go by that logic you should vacate US and let the Red Indians reoccupy their land, you can't have two sets of laws, one for Palestine and one for the American.
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Daylight
Jan. 15, 2007, 2:33 p.m.cherev
I have more respect for Daylight. He openly advocates extermination....although he only advocates it against Israel - for now.
If you want peace Israelis should speak to the countries from where the they came from and tell them that they are coming home, leaving the stolen property behind, this what I advocate. You don't need to go round and round attacking my religion, the problem is not my religion or even any other religion but it is Israel, occupation and western support for Israel that is where the enmity comes from. it is not about religion, if you want to be an infidel as you put be my guest, you can settle the account with God, we are not the keeper of faith, God never gave us that authority, had he given that authority to us, definitely we'll be coming after you leaving behind everything but it is completely the opposite of what you are trying to tell the world, If you want to worship devil that's your business which you are doing.
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cherev
Jan. 15, 2007, 2:39 p.m.I'm not attacking your religion - just exposing it for what it is. The rest of your statement speaks for itself and doesn't deserve a response.
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leor613
Jan. 15, 2007, 3:32 p.m.Daylight, your statements are the very definition of ethnic cleansing. Why is it okay for Jews to be kicked out of their country? For that matter, the majority of the Jews who live in Israel were kicked out of Arab lands starting in 1949. Do you expect Morrocco, Algeria, or say Iraq to welcome them with open arms?
Given that it is MLK day in the United States, I wish to cite him. He considered people like you to be anti-semites.
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Daylight
Jan. 15, 2007, 2:48 p.m.cherev
If the Arabs were truly interested in their own state, why didn't they demand one from the Egyptians and the Jordanians whent they controlled the area. It was only when the Jews won the land in a defensive war, that the world began to moan about the "rights" of these "people". The hatred for the Jew continues.
The Palestinians were living with the Jewish and Christian population in Palestine, the European Jews can't win the land because it was not theirs, how many time do I have to tell you they were European Jews they don't have any right to this land unless Palestinians give them citizenship like the western world give citizenships to the other communities in the world or Green Card or whatever, this is called occupation, Sadam went into Kuwait you called it occupation even though Kuwait was part of Iraq long ago. You can't apply this kind of standards to suit you whenever you want.
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rumple4skin
Jan. 15, 2007, 3:14 p.m.cherev: I believe this statement best summarises your mental condition: "There are some in this country who don't think of Jews, African-Americans, etc., as "real Americans". Jews have had enough experience to know that sometimes people who consider themselves "decent human beings" will stand aside and watch while others deprive Jews and others of their rights.
"We should be trying to integrate the society and making theme park that celebrates all people."
Can't people have their country and their faith, race, etc.? Why integrate to the point where there are no differences? We have that which unites us, but some of us like white bread and others prefer a nice, Jewish rye.
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