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Anti-Semitism: An Excerpt from "Childhood Confrontations" »
Posted by: Spadecaller 2 years, 9 months ago"You are a Jew!" The boy confirmed his suspicions as if he had found the devil, himself. This is about Anti-Semitism among children.
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Spadecaller
Welcome to my profile. About me: I'm an artist of several kinds; from bull to painting. I don't spare too many words. Most ...
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Comments: 292
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denzen
Jan. 18, 2007, 7:30 p.m.I find it troubling when people misuse the term "anti-Semitic" by pretending that it's synonymous with "anti-Jew". It may shock you to learn that not all Jews are Semitic and that not all Semites are Jews!
"Anti-Semitic" is a clever term promoted by Zionists to remove themselves from the discussion. Again, not all Jews are Zionists, not all Zionists are Jews.
That's not to say that there aren't bigots out there who are indeed anti-Semitic and anti-Jew. Well read bigots might also be anti-Zionist, though your average bigot is more likely to be a common "White Supremacist" who has no concept of Zionism.
It's important to note that since Zionism is an ideology, not a language group or cultural identity, it is possible to be anti-Zionist without being prejudiced or bigoted.
Let's be very careful with the words we use. I think one should educate oneself about the meaning of the words one uses; especially loaded words like "anti-Semitic".
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wasntme
Jan. 18, 2007, 10:20 p.m."I find it troubling when people misuse the term "anti-Semitic" by pretending that it's synonymous with "anti-Jew". It may shock you to learn that not all Jews are Semitic and that not all Semites are Jews!"Anti-Semitic" is a clever term promoted by Zionists to remove themselves from the discussion. "
Point well made. Being an anti anybody or group because of their religion, race, ethnicity is simply despicable but it goes on. Because of historical trend, being an anti-Jew and /or anti semite is even more despicable and as a Muslim it hurts me to see that some of the worst anti Jew propaganda comes from those of Muslim faith. We Muslims need to deal with this especially the Sunni Muslims, I don't think Wahhabis will ever change. I also think that Jews could help this situation by denouncing and condemning loudly the barbaric conduct of Israeli government in regard to Palestinains. Voting for Sharon is not a good way to do it.
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supabro15
Jan. 19, 2007, 12:08 a.m.really...i dont think the whole of US that consider anti-semitic as anti-jewish is going to change their use of words. the connotation of anti-semitic IS anti jewish, and people will keep refering to it as that, regardless of the true meaning of anti-semitic.
but your totally right about everything. i read that semitic also has to do with muslim culture as well as jewish...but eh :D
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Searunner52
Jan. 19, 2007, 5:32 a.m.By the same token a person can oppose and condemm the policies and actions of Israel without being "anti-jew" but it seems that if you dare to criticize Israel you are automatically branded as a jew hating bigot! Makes absolutely no sense to me
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Amazing1
Jan. 18, 2007, 8:54 a.m.Thank you, Spadecaller. I appreciate your courage in relating your story. I can really relate to your story. The hate that is taught by adults to their offspring keeps it alive so that others may suffer in future generations. And too many of us are followers. Not that we should all be leaders. But we should be able to think for ourselves. The kids you thought were your friends needed to know that it was not necessary to defend you. Only necessary to refuse to take part in the hatred. If these acolytes had walked away and told Karl that they could not take part, Karl would have been left without his little army. And he would have been shown to be the coward that he was.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 9:18 a.m.Racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, classism,-- they are all kinds of oppressions. WE are all affected by them. I watch my own children growing up and being affected by this stuff as well. Awarenss and exposure are vitally important in this world of denial.
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AmpLee
Jan. 18, 2007, 6:05 p.m.Of course there is black on white racism, as well as black on black racism. I don't have the energy to recount a long tale, but after Rodney King became famous, a black guy broke a bottle at my feet and stood in my way for absolutely no reason. I looked at him, let him know i wasn't afraid of him, and walked around. I've had a few more racially tinged incidents.
As my mom liked to say, never is a long time...
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 9:45 a.m.When my oldest was about five years old, he had a friend in the neighborhood, Lance, who often stopped by to play. His parents belonged to some very passionate religious sect and sometimes we were a bit wary.
One day, Lance, who was also no more than five, started talking about his Baptism. Of course, our boy knew nothing about the subject. As I listened to their dialogue, I began to get a little nervous wondering if I might need to inervene. Nevertheless, I continued listening while they played.
Lance had heard that if you are not Baptized you can't get to heaven, and so he announced proudly, "Because I was Babtized, I'm going to heaven!" My son looked at him for a second, and then innocently replied: "when are you leaving?"
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IAmMine
Jan. 18, 2007, 3:01 p.m."when are you leaving?"
Priceless... Thanks for the post Spadecaller!
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deathray
Jan. 18, 2007, 11 a.m.Lesson #1 to parents:
Be careful what you say around your children. They will parrot your prejudices. I suppose that saying prejudiced things is ok, if you want to perpetuate your personal bigotry.
Lesson #1 for kids:
Think for yourselves.
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geographer47
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:24 p.m.Lesson #1 to everyone:
Speak up when bigotry takes place in your presence. Some people feel they have to right to express their opinions at others' expense. Worse yet, it's so ingrained in a few that they don't recognize it as hate speech or bigotry. Your response won't change their behavior, but don't lead them to believe that you concur in or condone their bigotry.
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deathray
Jan. 18, 2007, 11:04 a.m.I think every minority has been marginalized to some extent by a mob mentality directed by some bully.
I've encountered a great deal of antiSemitism. But then, I've seen a lot of other prejudices as well.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 11:12 a.m.Oppression has many targets; it's just that some are more popular than others.
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jovial
Jan. 18, 2007, 11:23 a.m.I don't know where to start.. I too was chastized as a young boy. Not for being Jewish, although I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, but for being Black in a Predominantly White Catholic school in Brooklyn. The taunts started early with comments like " Aint your Mama on the Pancake box" Young white girls would look at me and say "yecch! your Black". Sometimes the words would escalate into actual fist fights. I never saw my myself as something that should be hated or despised by other races, but I learned that it would be a part of life for me for many years to come.
That's why when I see this "mob" mentality that attacks all Arabs and Muslims, Jews, Blacks or any other race it reminds me of the callousness I experienced as a child. I feel outrage and I try to fight ignorance by educating people. My job is twice as hard because people still look at my race instead of the message. Thanks for sharing Spade, and thanks for tolerating my rant.
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NelsonR
Jan. 18, 2007, 11:39 a.m.Well I should also interject a story, while growing up in a small town in upstate N.Y. I grew up surrounded by a racial and religious group of children. One of my best friends friends was a jewish boy. All of us at this young age had the best times of our lives but I was perplexed by the parents of my jewish friend. Finally we were told to stay away from him and we heard his parents yell out to their son that we were gentiles and he was not to play with us anymore.
My first taste of ethnic distaste as a young boy. My point all ethnic groups have bias's and if your group is an exception you have a problem with reality.
Yes, this is directed at one of the above.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 11:45 a.m.Did anyone on this thread say that Jews were not susceptible to prejudice, as well? Help me to understand what Nelson is writing about. What am I missing here? Did I write anything that would illicit that attack? If I did, let me know?
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walden3
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:18 p.m.Spade-
Surely you don't have to go back to the time you were 11 to find anti-semitism directed at you.
I bet I hear comments about jews 10 times a year - from being cheap to the big nose thing. I hear people talking in stores or on the subway. Even friends practice subtle forms of it. That's not even counting what I see from some writers here on netscape. I live in mass so I can only imagine what it must be like in other parts of the country where the number of jews isn't as great as it is in mass. What effect does this have on our little ones growing up?
But yup, that religious warrior, and phone sex employee abuser, bill o'reilly is flamed because christmas is under attack.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:29 p.m.No, we get enough examples all the time. Some of them are benign, in the sense that they are like knee-jerk learned reactions. And, then you have the hardcore Jew haters. We have them right here among us at Netscape.
I wrote about the childhood experience, because it lends itself to the seeing the destruction of innocense. Isn't that a more universal experience? In some way or another we all have those moments; some more subtle than others perhaps, but we all have them.
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Daylight
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:26 p.m.NelsonR
Finally we were told to stay away from him and we heard his parents yell out to their son that we were gentiles and he was not to play with us anymore.
Everybody talk about anti-Semitism, it is a myth, most of the Christians support the people of Jewish faith because they have been made to believe that God blesses anyone who blesses Israel and every street brawl with a Jewish person is portrayed as anti-Semitism but they are the most racist people on the face of the earth because you have to be born a Jew, or you are a gentile, people are not welcome to Judaism, the religion is confined only to the people of the Jewish faith, because they want us to believe they were chosen by God, so they are licensed to break all the commandments of God, there are intelligent people who believe all kinds of crap. You find this sickness in Hinduism too, all the other non-Hindus are considered untouchable, where as Islam and Christianity encourage new converts to their respective religions.
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walden3
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:46 p.m.wow. really?
you don't have to be born a jew. there are many converts including sammy davis junior and madonna.
do you think your statements that jews "are the most racist people on the face of the earth" or "are licensed to break all the commandments" are bigoted?
google "blood libel" some time.
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Linkgmr
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:53 p.m.First of all, the statment that 'Jews are the most racist people on the face of the earth' is flawed as it is inherently racist. That being said, if you look at Israel, anyone who is Jewish gets, essentially, free citizenship. Two sides to every coin, I suppose.
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Amazing1
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:07 p.m.Sad. Some evangelicals say you can't go to heaven unless you go to their church. And Christianity may encourage new converts but I don't want anyone coming to my door to try and tell me how I ought to be living my life. YOu think that's not prejudice on a grand scale? That's true hubris. To think you are so "right" you should go bother other people to convert them to your belief? Get a life.
Nobody's got a monopoly on prejudice. There are hate mongers and airheads of every faith and race in the world. Singling one out is prejudice.
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ind06
Jan. 18, 2007, 3:26 p.m.((they are the most racist people on the face of the earth because you have to be born a Jew, or you are a gentile,))
Last time I checked you pretty much had to be born white or you are not. By your "desperate... logic I guess white people (and black, brown and everything else inbetween) are in a dead heat tie with Jews for the "most racist people on the face of the earth".
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 12:53 p.m.Daylight? OMG! How damaged are you?
Your statement is both perverse and inaccurate: "every street brawl with a Jewish person is portrayed as anti-Semitism but they are the most racist people on the face of the earth because you have to be born a Jew."
Religious Jews generally do not actively seek converts, but others are welcome to convert of their own accord.
Stating that Jews are the most racist people on the earth is too stupid a remark to even discuss.
Only ignorant people would believe that all Jews think a like, as you have suggested. And, many Jews do not practice their religion; but they honor their heritage.
Your stereotypes and prejudices are glaring and pathological. I pity you, for the hatred that exudes from your distorted ideology.
By the way, if you shake the tree hard enough and long enough, Judaism goes back before Christianity; so in essences we all come from the same origins.
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rrrtx
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:03 p.m.I think it's worth saying that this situation might have been common in the US 40 years ago but is really very rare now.
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NelsonR
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:05 p.m.My post was directed at you spadecaller. I saw on a post that were surprized about the ethnic problems in Montreal and you futher admitted that throughout the world the problem persists. This goes to our early argument and post in reference to Senator Lieberman and my opinion is that he is biased and is looking out for the Israeli state over the interest of America.
A persons loyalty is first to religion, If he is a believer.
Next comes nationlism and thats where many hawks aver to.
I could go on and on down the list to neighbor against neighbor but I think you get the gist. Now Senator Lieberman is one of the most outlandish pro active lobbyist we have in Washington, even going against his own party on many issues including staying in Iraq for more Americans to die while his RELIGIOUS state benefits. Yes I am calling him a bigot and as we discussed they prevail throughout the world. We should support Israel but not in the biased attitude we have shown in the past.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:37 p.m.I do not need to go over your previous statements regarding "Jews, who should not hold political offices" because "they" cannot be loyal to this country first is wrong and prejudicial. That is just plain wrong.
YOur persistent need to categorize all Jews as an homogneous single-minded monolithic entity would annoy any Jewish person, and rightly so.
That you cannot possibly recognize that your thinking is askew, makes it is pointless for you to keep posing this subject whenever you encounteer my posts.
Yes, DAylight might make you feel better about yourself, but it does not justify your remarks about Jews, either. If you want to pat yourself on the back for not being like him, kudos for you.
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amazed
Jan. 18, 2007, 4:18 p.m.the problem with Lieberman is NOT that he's Jewish. The problem with Lieberman is that his number one priority is to ensure his continued employment in the government-- at least as a Senator, unless a better offer comes along -- then he will hold onto his Senate seat as he grabs for the better deal -- been there done that --twice!, swore he was the ONLY one who could really represent us after his party dumped him. And a majority of the fools in CT agreed.
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I-am-the-cat
Jan. 18, 2007, 6:26 p.m."A persons loyalty is first to religion, If he is a believer."
Isn't that the same argument people used against Kennedy as a Catholic?
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AmpLee
Jan. 18, 2007, 6:58 p.m.(( A persons loyalty is first to religion, If he is a believer.))
Well hell, even Karl Rove knows that.
'If a person loves father or mother or sister or brother more than Me, he is not worthy of Me'
[sorry, rereading the Greek Scriptures[newT] so that stuff just pops in my head]
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NelsonR
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:09 p.m.By the way spadecaller I am not anti semite that is why I have blocked all messages from the Islamic radical "Daylight". In my opinion he is a young, impressionable Islamic who has the propensity to be a future terrorist. I hope the CIA moniters these sites, I would keep an eye on him and his associates.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:41 p.m.I never used the term anti-semitic in describing you, if you do not recall. You claimed that it was "inferred".
I will state this much: your remarks regarding Jews are not without prejudice and should be re-evaluated. That is about as tolerant as I can be with the remarks I've read from you during this past week.
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NelsonR
Jan. 18, 2007, 1:51 p.m.Your quotes also demonstrate that you are a radical zealot who feels that the world is out to get the Jews. You unquestionably infer and insinuate that most humans are anit semetic. You probably had some bad experiences in your developement years and now have an attitude that because of Hitler all men and societies are the same.
Please, all cultures, religions and sects have been persecuted in one form or another. That was the disccussion! I accept, but do not agree with human bias's.
Your should look at your own comments for guidance in accepting your biased flaws.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 2:03 p.m.Nelson: I don't have to be paranoid; anyone who reads the statements on this thread can make up their own minds. The vast majority of people that I blog with and associate with in the world show no bigotry towards Jews.
Now that you want to characterize me as a "paranoid radical zealot and Jew" to take the focus off yourself, our exchange has come to an end, because you lack the integrity and the honor of owning up to your own remarks about American Jews, who you believe should be banned from holding political office.
If you're that desparate to find someone to support your position, I am sure can find at least two. (They are at the bottom of this web page, the two who sunk this story.)
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NelsonR
Jan. 18, 2007, 2:34 p.m.Yes, this discussion is ended. I'm elated you have so many
like minded biased friends to associate with. Truth is never accepted by those who are closed minded.
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not2needy
Jan. 18, 2007, 2:36 p.m.I loved the part of the story that i read, and would be so interested in reading more, perhaps the whole life story.
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looter
Jan. 18, 2007, 3:20 p.m.20 years from now we will read a similar article about Anti Islamism.... For some reason the southerners needed someone to hate. First it was Native Americans and Mexicans, then it was Black people, then it was the Jews, after that the Soviets now Islam.... who are in line next... Computer Programmers from India? And they say... Arabs hate us.... yeah I see no difference between stupid Arabs and these southern Evangelists they both hate anything that don't agree with them. I think it is time to end this hatred here in America. That should be one of the major steps in fighting terror. The terror of hatred can kill more than any bombs ever made.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 3:43 p.m."We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."
Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.
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royal-m
Jan. 18, 2007, 4:10 p.m.Children can be cruel to each other that is no secret.....and no surprise ....and the idea that everyone must be the same or hated for being different is something that is both insticntive and taught...both can and should be eliminated.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 18, 2007, 4:12 p.m."Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies."
Eli Wiesel
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rrrtx
Jan. 18, 2007, 5:48 p.m.I agree it is very common at this site.
But the participants here are nowhere close to mainstream either. This is not a good sample of average American views and opinions on matters of race or anything else.
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deathray
Jan. 19, 2007, 7:12 a.m.I'm pretty mainstream on a lot of issues.
The forum is a perfect example of what a lot of people in America think, further emboldened by relative anonimity.
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