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Rumsfeld Made Me Do It: Ghosts of Abu Ghraib »
Posted by: Karina 2 years, 11 months agoWhen the director of the documentary 'Ghosts of Abu Ghraib' asked the soldiers themselves why they had participated in the detainee abuse, they all gave her the same answer: "I did it because I was told to do it."
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Karina
Karina Longworth blogs about film at Spout.com. She co-founded the film blog Cinematical in March 2005, whilst simultaneously completing an MA in Cinema Studies ...
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Comments: 255
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questionseverything
Jan. 24, 2007, 9:30 p.m.the iraqislogger has had a video on last couple days..that is supposedly an x serviceman guard drinking beer and telling couple guys in what looks like a garage about abu ghraib
he talks about the bag ovr head thing and making them think they r suffacating
he talks about the cia showing them how to hook up electrodes to their private parts
he talks about a 15 yr old girl that was repeatedly raped and commited suicide,,he laughs at that
as i watched i thought what kind of animial is this?
and why is he lose among us
the video is "no longer avial" i guess the censors r getting a lil slow but the transcript is still there
i have heard neo cons say nothing happened in abu worse than frat partys....in that case im glad im a poor peop that didnt go to college
why hasnt the justice department indicted any civilians in this case(cia agents)
torture and rape rnt what americas about
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1-2-Oscar
Jan. 24, 2007, 9:58 p.m.It is amazing that Rory Kennedy is so concerned about the behavior of a few twisted Americans--so concerned that she chose to make the film about them rather than about the thousands who had been murdered before these Americans arrived. But that film would have been all about Iraqis, and who cares what Iraqis do?
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natashas
Jan. 24, 2007, 10:01 p.m.I can not believe that this happened for as long as it did. I can not believe that a human being is capable of this. Their should be more prisons to hold these sick people for the rest of their lives.
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RedstateLib
Jan. 24, 2007, 10:50 p.m."Beyond Abu Ghraib, she says, the movie "is about America, and who we are, and the policies we're engaged in. It's not just looking back to the Geneva Conventions, in the late 1940s--you can go all the way back to the American Revolution. During that time, George Washington was faced with a similar issue. The British soldiers were treating Americans absolutely horrendously. Washington was asked, 'How do you want to treat the British prisoners?' His answer was, 'Treat them with respect and dignity.' Because if we lose our moral compass, this battle's not worth fighting. And that has been the mission that has dictated American foreign policy for the past 200 years--with the exception of the last six."
This paragraph sums up the issue at hand. Really that's all there is to say about this.
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johnsox
Jan. 24, 2007, 11:19 p.m.Hey Ike! "lies and false innuendo?" I think the word you are searching for is "photographs" chump! Remember those? The ones we have all seen?
Hey 1-2Oscar! "the thousands who had been murdered before these Americans arrived," you mean the thousands that Saddam killed with our tax dollars from Iran Contra? You are right. That WOULD make a good documentary!
HEE HEE I crack myself up!
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Eurostar57
Jan. 25, 2007, 12:06 a.m.''god bless america/canada''
people canada is worse.... its like living in sarnia or where the are civil wars all the time
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Lurch
Jan. 25, 2007, 4:02 a.m.>when senator KENNEDY said 'ABU GHRAIB' was merely under new management, that was bad enough.
Good lord, somebody told the truth. Shoot him!
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Lurch
Jan. 25, 2007, 4:04 a.m.>i was just following orders defense has'nt worked since the NUREMBERG TRIALS. soldiers such as LINDY ENGLAND are a disgrace.
And you act like its a good thing those ultimately responsible for the systematic torture, rape, and murder are not punished.
Scapegoating the little guy is a cowards way out.
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rickcb
Jan. 25, 2007, 5:19 a.m."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
~Voltaire
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jay61
Jan. 25, 2007, 7:16 a.m.WHO CARES ! So there was some torturing. It should of been common place for those "HEAD LOPPING" scum.
Next time they fillet some poor guys head off or hack someone apart , think about how Pathetic the media is.
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AmpLee
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:10 a.m.All I can say is two things:
Can't claim the moral high ground if you torture.
To be lost in the means to an end is a terrible thing.
Oh, and instead of torturing Saddam for using the weapons we gave him to kill people, maybe it would have been better not to condone murder by giving him poison used for that purpose in the first place, or did we think he was gonna use it to fumigate his azalea bushes?
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flyrod
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:11 a.m.nostradomus, I've seen the pictures. I've dealt with the "scum" described as child molesters. So to answer your question. Torure, physical torture, while seemingly appropriate is never justified. We are suppose to be the good guys remember. A costly trial is the bedrock of our judical system, and the right of ANYONE we charge with a crime. Now that brings us to the dilemma we face. No one has been charged. Mainly because they can't figure out what to charge them with and then be able to prove the elements of the crime. Now we have to figure out what to do with these people. Personally, I think if they are a known terrorist we should simply allow them to swim home. But there again we'd just be bothered by that pesky little judicial system.
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Candida
Jan. 25, 2007, 5:15 p.m.nostradomus,
I've seen the pictures, and it's all the more reason why I don't want to sink to that level. Society has a right to protect itself from monsters, but what would you accomplish by torturing them? Vengeance?
An even more important question: Do you know for sure that the people in Abu Ghraib were "scum"?
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Watchemoket
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:41 p.m.Nostradomus: So is it then acceptable for our soldiers to rape other children? Do you know for sure who is the "they" who committed the crimes you speak of, or do you just assume that anyone who was 'captured' and imprisoned at Abu Ghraib is guilty of a crime worthy of a death penalty? Is ANY crime worthy of torture as a punishment?
The animals who decapitated people for show as a means of instilling terror only become more emboldened if we stoop to their level. If we do so -- they win. Is that what you really want - to let the animals whose actions were intended to sow hatred and bring us down to their level succeed?
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walden3
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:16 a.m.that's what happens when you put young kids in impossible situations. war is hell. as usually happens the grunts will get blamed and be punished and thsoe giving orders will scoot away scot free.
we've lost our moral high ground.
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DPittman
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:16 a.m.I find it revealing that Kennedy uses the actions of a few young and misguided individuals to paint a picture of America as a whole. Could it not be the personal responsibility of the individuals that committed the abuses, or must it be some greater power that ordered them to do it. I would only guess that if a young soldier is caught up in a media storm such as the one that followed this story that they probably would say someone else ordered me to do it. I would also guess the media made that very easy for them to say, since that is exactly what the media wanted to hear.
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johnsox
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:38 a.m.Re: "Your lack of education, and intelligence, is quite revealing"
Dear Mr. Ike,
As one of the lucky ones who does possess a college education, it is my considered opinion that you Sir, are infused with fecal matter.
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cappy877
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:45 a.m.What havn't been able to grasp since the abuse scandal came to light, is that those being put in prison are lower ranking personell. I havn't heard of any officers or above being thrown in the klink. There is no way that these things went on without the knowledge of senior staff.
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Bruedaddy
Jan. 25, 2007, 9:51 a.m.even though the soldier has a duty to follow orders and soldiers follow orders..period, they also have a larger more important duty to "Country" and with that comes the need for a soldier to follow his/her conscience....
by refusing any illegal order.
to think no one ordered them to do these thigs is simply naive...(sp?)
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flyrod
Jan. 25, 2007, 10:03 a.m.I don't think anyone is disputing that they were ordered to question prisoners and to tear down their pyscological defenses. It's the way they did that, that seems to be the question in dispute. You can give an order do do something but how that order is executed is usually up to the person so ordered. Therefore, it can be a legal order carried out in an illegal manner. Who do you blame?
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JohnBryansFontaine
Jan. 25, 2007, 1:10 p.m.Here is what The Rolling Stones, from their A Bigger Bang CD, had to say about Lynndie England, one of the soldiers found guilty of torture at Abu Ghraib:
DANGEROUS BEAUTY
(M. Jagger/K. Richards)
In your high school photo
You looked so young and naïve
Now I heard you got a nickname
The lady with the leash
Was it funny on the midnight shift
I bet you had your fair share of stiffs
There were onerous odors
I've got to admit
'Cause you're a dangerous, dangerous
A dangerous beauty
It's so plainfully plain to us
You're doing your duty
Who you got there in that hood, you look so fancy in those photographs
With your rubber gloves on you're a favorite with the Chiefs of Staff
You're doing such a wonderful job
You're a natural at working with dogs
Keeping everyone awake at night
With a touch of the prods
( continued )
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JohnBryansFontaine
Jan. 25, 2007, 1:15 p.m.DANGEROUS BEAUTY
( continued )
Well you're a dangerous, dangerous
A dangerous beauty
Yeah, disdainfully, painfully
A bit of booty, yeah
You're a dangerous, dangerous
A dangerous beauty
Beauty
Well you're a dangerous, dangerous
A dangerous beauty
If I was your captain, would you salute me
What I say
Yeah everybody
Beauty
Everybody now, yeah
Are you one bad apple in a box
Yeah, dangerous
Dealing out electric shocks
I've seen the gloves coming off
Dangerous
If looks could be killing, I bet you shoot me now "
Check out 'A Bigger Bang', the best Stones album since
'Exile on Main Street'
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