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Science or Faith? »
Posted by: msaleem 2 years, 6 months agoRichard Dawkins believes science's ability to admit ignorance is one of its greatest strengths. On the flip side, he proposes that faith remains arrogant and all too certain of its validity without any rational set of proofs.
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msaleem
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Comments: 151
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Rinty
May 1, 2007, 12:05 p.m.That's why it's called 'faith'
Religion:
It's a powerful healing force.
In a world torn apart by religion.
Jon Stewart
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icelander
May 1, 2007, 2:20 p.m.A quick tip for understanding when you're wrong: If you can honestly say that nothing would ever change you're mind, you're probably wrong.
I know what it would take for me to believe in god. Do you know what it would take for you to disbelieve?
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Rinty
May 1, 2007, 3:36 p.m.Re: quick tip.
I understand that completely (good advice). I've been wrong before. Many times.
Re: disbelieve
No
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ThinkingGlass
May 1, 2007, 5:50 p.m.Faith or Science?
Faith 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof
Science
1.a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws
2.systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
I got these definitions from dictionary.com
There is a story in the Bible the apostle Thomas did not believe Jesus had resurrected. Jesus had to appear to Thomas and make Thomas feel the wounds of his crucifixation.
Jesus then said "Blessed are those who believe but not see."
What he is basicially saying is blessed are the blind believers who will not be able to justify me (God)
Faith has no facts Science does which one to choose?
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Rinty
May 1, 2007, 9:04 p.m.'Faith has no facts Science does which one to choose?'
Given your definitions above:
'Faith 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing' I choose faith.
I would change the wording to read 'confidence or trust in people'...
I'm not talking about creationism theory, just faith in people, no matter what religion you are.
If we don't have at least that, what chance do we have as a society... I have to stop here or I'll go on forever. Thanks for making me think about it.
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Shankari25
May 1, 2007, 11 p.m.Why do science and religion have to be at odds with one another? Do Buddhists complain about Darwin? Do Hindus have an issue with evolution? Do Taoists create museums that oppose and defy mainstream science? Do Wiccans protest the teaching of science? I could go on. Who is the faith nonsense aimed at? Well, it's Christianity, and not only that but a specific type of Christianity.
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Rinty
May 1, 2007, 11:15 p.m.The faith nonsense is aimed at all sides and comes from all sides. Tell me different.
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aceofspades1
May 2, 2007, 12:41 a.m.Oldhickory- if we're ever in a foxhole together - you can do the praying - I'll do the shooting
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NelsonR
May 2, 2007, 12:48 a.m.The religious of all faiths are the reasons behind the idea of Atheists and Agnostic or non-believers. Hypocrisy prevails within the human species. The religous though seem to more hypocritical and if I were god, I would be displeased.
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truthiness
May 2, 2007, 1:17 a.m.there is no evidence to support string theory, it is a hypothesis which coordinates all the known laws of the universe. due to a lack of observable data string theory can neither be proven or disproven.
dark matter is a theory which is used to explain why the mathematical theories of motion dont work on a celestial scale. by adding in dark matter, the math works. due to alck of observable data dark matter can neither be proven nor disproven.
these to theories are the basis of modern theoretical physics (and a couple of nobel prizes in science)
they are entirely based in faith.
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aceofspades1
May 2, 2007, 1:45 a.m.sorry but theory is theory but faith is faith - theory will modify itself in the face of proof - faith is unmovable
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Cybnetic
May 2, 2007, 8:26 a.m.science will be the only thing that moves real minds and knowledge. religion is a ignorant sham of humanity. religion should be abolished!! people do not even learn the beginning and historical correct views and theories behind religions. they just believe in whatever is told to them without question. In my opinion you can tell these people that the flying spagetti monster created the world and they would believe it!!
step back from religion people and learn..
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saileyboy
May 2, 2007, 9:56 a.m.to paraphrase Joseph Campbell "it was never science verses religion, but the science of three thousand years ago verses the science of today." IOW - the bible is a book on how man described his environment, and a guide on how to go about in it.
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Unashamed
May 2, 2007, 10:01 a.m.I'm amazed at the amount of bigoted, haughty, concieted, arrogant, prideful, condescending people with a false superiority conplex on this site who believe that scientific knowledge is the only true knowledge.
Add to that the hyprocrasy of saying, "science's ability to admit ignorance is one of its greatest strengths" while at the same time ridiculing a person of faith for not having all the answers.
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Bkumm
May 2, 2007, 10:18 a.m.To invest07
" What was going on 1 second before the Big Bang?
Where did the matter and energy come from?
Where and when did space and time originate?
From where and when did the complex rules of physics originate?
How did inorganic chemicals, some of which are toxic to life, organize themselves into the first life forms? "
1. We don't know.
2. Approx. 26 milliseconds after the Big Bang.
3. Approx. 26 milliseconds after the Big Bang when the four forces of Nature separated from one another.
4. The exact mechanism is not understood as of yet, however the science is moving forward.
Now, let me ask you a couple of questions, if you will.
1. Can you answer the same questions that you have posed?
2. If so, do you have any proof at all of any kind, other than the Bible or some other religious text?
There is NO REASON for science and religion to be at odds.
Science is how things work and religion is about the soul.
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YesJesus
May 2, 2007, 10:55 a.m.It's quite amazing how minute, and seemingly insignificant a circumstance can be to suddenly and without forethought "open the eyes of the "blind" to the truth of God. I was raised an atheist, and was quite empty in that vacuum of belief, but was desperately searching for "truth." One day it hit me simply as I passed from one room to another -- "Of course, God is real!" But I didn't know who He was -- was He buddha? or Christ, or ... A year later, Christ revealed Himself to me, and I have never been the same since! It's a wonderful life!
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toph1973
May 2, 2007, 11:32 a.m.Sure, Science cannot answer all questions. But Science does much better at answering questions than religion. Look at all of the evidence we have discounting many of the stories that are in the bible. Archeological discoveries in ancient Egypt that are discounting stories in the Bible. There is enormous evidence that the exodus never happened. Something eerily similar to the 10 plagues happened about 1650 BC due to a volcano eruption 600 miles from Egypt. The size of the Ark would never had been big enough for 2 animals of all species, their food, their caretakers, not to mention the time it would have taken to travel between continents and get the species. The astrological record proves that Jesus was born in the Summer. With so many provable inaccuracies, how can the bible be labeled as anything but fiction.
Science scares the Church for reasons like this.
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WCFIELDS
May 2, 2007, 12:05 p.m.If you don't believe in GOD then the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on Religious Propaganda over the years could have been spent in more reasonable and intelligent ways.
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invest07
May 2, 2007, 12:09 p.m.Thanks for you comments. I am a student of this time period but I have never heard of the volcano and possible plagues you mention. Egypt was ruled by the Hyksos during this time period and they kept much more detailed records than did the Egytpians, who were notoriously lax.
Any source you can give me to study this volcano would be gretaly appreciated.
Thanks,
rljdyates@aol.com
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aceofspades1
May 2, 2007, 1:39 p.m.man is not capable of knowing pure truth - only pragmatic truth- if it works it's true. Science has been the study of phenonoma that has approached the realization of pure truth, but it has opened much of what was thought to be pure truth to question -the string theory is a perfect example of the expanding knowledge of scientific fact.New approaches to old ideas change what is pragmatic in science.
Religion allows for no variation in what is thought to be pure truth. Religion takes the acceptance of pure truth & calls it faith. It is the science of the ancients mixed up with social behavior edicts to help ancient man cope with his very limited world.
Our world is infinate now & our search for pure scientific truths are only hindered by the constraints of blind religious & superstitious mentalities
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Rinty
May 2, 2007, 3:05 p.m.Msaleem:
Great Post. Great contributors and perspectives. I'm heading back to 'Politics' it's easier.
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Bkumm
May 2, 2007, 3:10 p.m."The Ark was large enough to carry one young breeding pair of every living thing."
I just have one set of words for this statement.
Bull and S***.
It would be impossible to fit that many animals (assuming that you don't take all of the insects as well) into a space even as large as the Ark. Also, what in the hell do you FEED them? Most of them don't eat the same things. How do you keep food fresh enough for the lions, tigers, polar bears and other carnivores to eat for forty days and nights? It would spoil right? Oh, wait, I forgot, omnipotent and omniscient, all powerful GOD. That's right the normal rules don't apply because GOD says they don't.
And yet, 6 million of His chosen people were killed by the Holocaust and He did NOTHING. He can keep meat from spoiling and create an inter-dimensional space to fit animals in, but he can't save 6 million of His chosen.
So very many problems with this story in particular and the OT in general.
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JohnChasWebb
May 2, 2007, 8:15 p.m.Re: Science or Faith?
Richard Dawkins is (opinion) the hmmmm... 'poster child' for 'consensus based reality' and seems to be crucified on a pair of yardsticks.
"Rationality" is a handicap-ramp for matters involving religious faith. The mind is the primary barrier that obscures the experiential truths of transcendental realities.
Religions are primarily 'metaphysical' and operate using a 'cause and effect' cosmology that seems irrational to the thinking mind. Nobody is 'thinking' at the moment of orgasm... the mind 'stops' and bliss emerges from the depths of the psyche.
Rationality, on the other hand, keeps one tethered to 'death' and trapped within the solitary confinement of one-dimensional logic.
Anything that can be considered 'miraculous' transcends rationality, logic and mundane physics. As such, the mind is an excellent advisor but a ruthless and perpetually chattering warden.
See,(book) Flatland
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