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Posted by: RickyDawkins 2 years, 7 months agoEver since I started doubting the existence of God, I have frequently encountered confusion between the numerous labels used to describe non-theistic belief systems. This is most commonly seen between the words "atheist" and "agnostic," both of which signify the absence of definitive belief in a deity.
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RickyDawkins
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of ...
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Comments: 264
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RickyDawkins
May 14, 2007, 3:14 p.m."As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God.
On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.
Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line."
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RickyDawkins
May 14, 2007, 3:26 p.m.Aside from the terms atheist and agnostic, which relate directly to belief in God, there are other labels out there with which nontheists often identify. Because the rejection of religion usually results from reason and a factual analysis of the world (the perspective of rationalism and freethought), most nontheists tend to be skeptics and hold a naturalistic worldview, dismissing supernatural claims due to a lack of evidence to support them. Of course, there are always exceptions, since there are people out there who lack a belief in God but still hold on to superstitious beliefs such as astrology or luck, and some who even believe in spiritual entities such as ghosts or follow nontheistic religions like Buddhism or Taoism. As long as this God does not interfere with the laws of physics and allows everything to be tested with the scientific method.
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Bkumm
May 14, 2007, 3:57 p.m.Well, let's take the words apart and see what falls out.
agnostic comes from the Greek and means 'unknown' or 'unknowable'.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/agnostic
atheist also comes from the Greek and means 'godless'.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dict...
So, those two definitions seem to be at odds and yet compatible. One says that we can not know whether or not a god, gods, goddess or goddesses exist, while the other says either (depending on usage) that no deity exists OR that the person him or herself is godless. I guess, as the article states that one could be atheistic and agnostic at the same time.
Dawkin's scale is interesting. I'm somewhere between 5 and 6 and have been for a long time.
If a deity exists, I'd really, really like to meet the SOB sometime and explain a few things about people.
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flyonthewallzz
May 14, 2007, 4:42 p.m.Wow! Had I not been asked I would have kept my struggles with my faith to myself.
I am a Strong theist:100 percent. My heroes are those that chose to live their life in an imitation of the life of Christ.
I fall way short of this standard.
I believe in the "Inner Light" and that there is "that of God" in all.
I respect the rituals that others follow to demonstrate their faith.
Personally it is easier to believe that we have cast God in our own image. If this belief gives strength then it has my admiration.
It has been a long time since I have taken the communion of an established church.
I do seek "divine" guidance constantly. It is not always easy.
The consistency demonstrated from this link gives me much strength
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flyonthewallzz
May 14, 2007, 5:47 p.m.This is a very difficult discussion for me!
I can not help but respect the faith of others.
Faith by definition is a Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
If Faith was not so important why would agnostics and atheists spend so much time thinking about it?
I have stopped looking for proof. I am sorry if I offend some I do not find the scriptures as proof. I do find them glorious. Especially the gospels.
Devotion does not come easy to me, I make every attempt I can to love Gods creation.
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samsara15
May 14, 2007, 9:28 p.m.I think I'm a weak atheist or an ignostic; I think there is a god, but that it doesn't make any difference, since they way I define god makes god irrelevant, god is essentially equivalent to what scientists term natural law, or nature.
Ideologically, I feel more in common with moderate atheists / agnostics.
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Shankari25
May 14, 2007, 10:15 p.m.What if you define god in a different way than Judeo-Christians? What if you believe in energy, nature, a force, but not exactly the old man in the sky? I guess it would be like samsara, sort of. I don't call myself an atheist, because ironically I'm very spiritual. I believe in searching for the sacred within. Does that make me an agnostic as well?
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RickyDawkins
May 14, 2007, 10:56 p.m.CAT, BEFORE YOU SCURRY AWAY:
Just keep a little area in your head to remember facts of the world we ACTUALLY live in. Things like the Earth is 4.5 Billion Years Old. Also that "children" are not made at conception. Also that men and women are created Equal. People are all the SAME race, proved by the human genome sequence. We share a common ancestor with all primates. I feel that you would benefit from learning a bit about OUR ANCESTORS.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/recent.htm...
ALSO, Slavery is not acceptable as described in the Bible.
Genocide, frowned upon by rational thinkers of today, but preached loud and clear in the Bible.
The Bible is wishy-washy at best on these issues. Finally, homosexuality, which the bible calls sin, is actually a normal human trait.
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RickyDawkins
May 14, 2007, 11:19 p.m.It is a feeling in your mind CAT, produced by your brain endorphins. The human mind has evolved "ARCHITECTURE" which facilitates believing whacky stuff (like Santa and God). See this New York Times article called Darwin's God..
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04ev...
"Lost in the hullabaloo over the neo-atheists is a quieter and more illuminating debate. It is taking place not between science and religion but within science itself, specifically among the scientists studying the evolution of religion. These scholars tend to agree on one point: that religious belief is an outgrowth of brain architecture that evolved during early human history. What they disagree about is why a tendency to believe evolved, whether it was because belief itself was adaptive or because it was just an evolutionary byproduct, a mere consequence of some other adaptation in the evolution of the human brain."
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palamaComment has been removed: User banned.
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Unlucky320
May 15, 2007, 8:16 a.m.Ricky, I am a strong number 1. I do not believe I know that there is a God. Can I actually show him to you? Probably not, unless you count the wonders of the world, the miracles that come about in day to day life, but you would just dismiss it as nature or luck or whatever else you wish to call it, even karma. I do know that good things come out of bad situations, if you believe, but as I said before, you'd say it was just some fluke.
As a Christian, I'm bound to my beliefs to inform you that if you don't believe in Jesus that you might be risking your eternal soul, but as a regular person I would say it's your life, no one is sending you to hell you do it yourself.
I don't believe anyone is a true Christian anymore, it's a hard hard hard life to live, you do the best you can, but maybe that does make you a true Christian, you do what you can with what you have. It's hard for me to love people as Jesus did. Killers of children, rapists, that's a hard thing to do, to love them.
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Eudiso
May 15, 2007, 8:36 a.m.Would I consider my self the ideal Christian, not even close.
I rarely say grace before eating and sometimes miss mass on Sundays, not very Christian like of me. However, does this make me or anyone else any less of a Christian? I don't believe so.
All of us believe or interpret God in different ways, we either seek to follow his beliefs and traditions word for word, fearing that any mistake will condemn us to hell. While others could care less, and try to forge their own path and gamble along the way.
I believe God knew that not all of us would agree on what a Christian is, and conflicts would arise. Therefore, I would think there's more than one path to being a Christian. Since we ultimately control our own destiny, the Bible and God exist to guide us to that ultimate destiny, whichever it may be.
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InChrist
May 15, 2007, 9:03 a.m.Only God knows becaue only God can see into a persons heart. No system of measurement by mankind can determine whether someones heart follows after Christ however, Jesus said if we love one another people will know we are His disciples. So get to loving! :)
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RickyDawkins
May 15, 2007, 9:49 a.m.Cat This is You:
"Look, we have a book called Dianetics that is amazingly complex. 10 years ago I did not understand anything about it. Nada, nothing, zero. I got connected with a local church that has an amazing leader.
L. Ron Hubbard has extended his reach to close to every country in the world. Through his sons church, I have become involved and studied Dianetics over the past 10 years. In this time, I have learned a great deal. This is what I believe to be true.
L. Ron Hubbard created us to worship and glorify Him.
L. Ron Hubbard is Holy.
L. Ron Hubbard is without blemish.
L. Ron Hubbard is to magnificent for us to comprehend.
L. Ron Hubbard no mistakes
L. Ron Hubbard turns every bad thing into good for His kingdom.
While L. Ron Hubbard does not cause bad things to happen He may allow them for His purpose, which is always for good.
If you believe in L. Ron Hubbard then you much believe in satan, because L. Ron Hubbard says that he is real, but already defeated."
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RickyDawkins
May 15, 2007, 10:04 a.m.Fly on the Walls, God would not want you to butcher the english language! Sinner!
Literaly = Literally
thier = their
interpitaions = interpretations
cowerdice = cowardice
God Bles you!
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2sidestoeverything
May 15, 2007, 10:16 a.m.This was a very interesting read and the posts on both sides were informative and interesting. I think whether you believe in a mystical god or not is really not the point it is that we all have the right to believe or not and no one should take that away. We need to respect one another as human beings. (Just my two cents)
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RickyDawkins
May 15, 2007, 10:31 a.m.And CAT probably thinks "people" are made at conception, that Gays are sinners. That Muslims are inferior. That natural disasters are God's Breath weeding out the devil's breed. Etc.
Alas, Cat has already slunk away, and cannot defend herself.
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Dionys
May 15, 2007, noonIt's always curious to me to see attacks on any religion by Athiests. For said Athiests will almost certainly go on and on about how their morality is shaped by their humanity and there is no need to have a religion or faith system to instill morality.
Yet Athieism is the greatest of faith systems for you have to have complete, unshaken faith that you know everything there is to know, and that you know better than any other person, past, present or future the "truth."
Beyond this, though, is the pure example of a good deal of the Athiests (and likely near as many Christians). It seems to me that a great deal of people from both sides engage in hateful, spiteful, uncompassionate, uncaring, purely unkind actions.
If you are a secular humanist, or Athiest, then where are these wonderful, inborn morals you speak of? If you are a Christian, then why do you not embrace the life of Jesus Christ in the Gospels as example?
Stop spreading hate..
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Redneck
May 15, 2007, 12:06 p.m.First I do not get the title!! What does it have to do with the article?
Quote: "It is very unfortunate that people who lack a belief in God are so misunderstood by our society and have to deal with such a large variety of labels simply to describe their common-sense skepticism. Why is it that calling oneself an atheist, which is the easiest, most direct way of conveying one's lack of belief in God, considered so taboo?"
The Bible has one thought for this and "TRUE CHRISTIANS" as well "the fool has said in his heart there is no God. They are corrupt . . ." Psalms 14:1 The person who wrote this article is delusional discussing semantics to such a degree! Hebrews 11:6 "He that comes to God must believe He is and will be dound of him wouls seeks Him."
The person who does not believe he exists is an atheist. He does not find God because he does not honestly seek Him.
Please forgive mispelled words as I am working with injured fingers today.
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crespi
May 15, 2007, 12:30 p.m.All hail the giant white man in the sky.
Oh, sorry Muslims.
All hail the giant brown man in the sky.
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nu2007
May 15, 2007, 12:49 p.m.Atheism is a form of religion although atheist would deny that. Most religions center on an unproven belief system then formulate a set of moral rules in line with this belief system. For theist religions, this belief system is founded based on the existence of one or multi-god figures, or highly regarded person praised in a godlike rank. It is virtually impossible with the present technology to prove or disprove the existence of this god or the power of this godlike figure. For atheist religions, the belief system is based on life without the existence of a god figure. They often use science to explain in whole the origin of life. Moral teachings are set usually based on common sense. However, since you can't prove or disprove the existence of god, none of them can claim to represent a "truer" picture of the universe or life.
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