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Duly Consider: Who's Afraid of Corporate Medicine? »
Posted by: trnscndr 2 years, 7 months agoCandidate Dennis Kucinich screamed the most common sense yet most financially opposed medical plan, the single payer plan. Basically, an extension of Medicare to all Americans, it is a plan that would cut out the middle man...
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trnscndr
1)Of all my political tenets the one I know to be true is that emotional politicians who ignore logic are enemies of the state ...
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Comments: 256
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trnscndr
June 4, 2007, 11:57 a.m.Why do we insist that investors make a profit on saving lives, putting the US last among its peers in medical care?
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Beeboppin71
June 4, 2007, 12:20 p.m.I back the plan by Kucinich 100%. His plan is based on the PNHP's ( http://www.pnhp.org/ ) plan and it is the most intelligent idea on reform that I've seen and I've studied quite a few. But it will never happen. There are far too many "powerful, selfish, private economic and professional interests [that would block] the enactment of such a program." http://www.peak.org/~ramselj/univ.txt
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elel
June 4, 2007, 1:10 p.m.Ok, more government may not be a good idea, but geesh, they say we broke Iraq and we need to fix it, well if they broke our medical systems, I say they should fix that as well :)
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Obaku
June 4, 2007, 1:44 p.m.First, capitalism is NOT the same thing as corporatism.
Second, the delivery of a service to all of the people is not the same problem as the delivery of goods, i.e. health care and education can not be managed the same way that Wal-mart or Safeway is managed.
Third, the federal government is not the best forum to MANAGE anything, be it defense, health care, education or the energy industry. It is best suited to REGULATION, that is to set standards, objectives and policy. It is too slow to respond to changing conditions, and is never in a position to understand and respond to local conditions in the first place.
HMOs suffer all the evils of corporatism and of government management, rolled up in to one cluster f*%k.
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Lurch
June 4, 2007, 3:33 p.m.One part of the article I disagree with:
>Would we really miss any of the doctors, Pharma and insurance executives who might quit if we deprived them of guaranteed 6 figure incomes and replaced them with people driven by a love of helping people?
We would not miss any of the good doctors because the doctors would finally start getting paid what they are worth. Over the last 20 years the insurance companies have been squeezing doctors on the reimbursement side (shrinking) and the insuring side (costs growing). Doctors make less now than they did 20 years ago. By cutting out insurers, America can only improve healthcare by the laws of economics and of nature.
Some things we can all agree on:
Lower pay = lower quality providers
Higher pay = higher quality providers
cont`ed
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Macondo
June 4, 2007, 3:47 p.m.The name of the game is to spread the economic risk across the board to include the old and the young, the healthy and the ill.
In this way an all inclusive policy will average costs and provide coverage to all.
If all Americans and all doctors are affiliated to the system, you are free to pick your doctor or your hospital.
Our health care in the US. is not to bad.
We are 19Th in the world so we are in the 1/5 upper category.
We could get better if we had wider coverage and more affordable. It is possible if we spread the economic risk.
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ballbuster2
June 4, 2007, 4:49 p.m.the goverment running insurance, why would anybody want to rely on more goverment involvement in anything?? i have no choice but to use the veteran's hospital's/clinic's and i have to tell everyone here if you have ever experianced a nightmare that's it, the v.a., i can not think of any place in this world i would rather not be than a v.a. hospital. no more goverment involvement!!! i have been going to the tucson v.a. for more than ten(10) year's, have been assigned to more than a dozen(12) different provider's(doc's) and have only met three(3) of them ever.
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canadianrancher57
June 4, 2007, 5:04 p.m.We've had government running the medical thing for yaars up here in Canada and I can remember the big fuss the doctors made when it started, they said it would limit their ability to make a living. The doctors who where willing to work decent hours have done alright. Even all the talk about waiting times is in some cases talk, emergencies are just that and get treated promptly. Like down there the cost of medicare is going up quickly but when one looks at all the tests and specialists what can you expect. In a way I do feel sorry for you down there it is bad when a profit has to be made by someone when illness strikes. When it comes to the insurance part of things not everyone has the funds but they should be entitled to just as good a service as everyone else.
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wayfarerkb
June 4, 2007, 5:42 p.m.I am a nurse and I worked in doctors offices for fifteen years. Govt healthcare scares the heck out of me. We have a joke about Medicare. As soon as you start costing them money, then it's time for you to die because they don't want to cover ANYTHING! Not your blood pressure or diabetic meds or your heart pills or anything else that might help you live longer.
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icono1
June 4, 2007, 7:06 p.m.The govt supports the corp's which support the med industry which support the insurance Co's which support the govt.. Repeat sentence x number of times if need be. Ego's aside, this is the shape of government sponsored corporate medicine in the good ol' USofA.
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MikeFromCanada
June 4, 2007, 8:11 p.m.This is history repeating itself; I've watched documentaries on the history of Canada's health care, the same arguments came up then, poor care, doctor's being dirt poor, and pretty much ever other thing I've read in this post. A few years back i heard (i don't remember if it was surgeon general or head head of AMA)anyway, this person said on the radio that because of Canada's public health care system, they have NO money for research. Ironically, the man who said this was saved by a bone marrow transplant that was developed in Canada! Not to mention that insulin thing we did too :)
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agentX
June 4, 2007, 9:53 p.m.We can't count on the government, we can't count on the corporations; so who do we turn to in order to get health care back on track?
If the solution involves ED-ing a crummy firms like Tenet and HCA and sending CEOS to hard prison time, I'm all for it.
One important statistic left out by Duly Consider:
the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, according to JAMA, is Medical Errors.
Another horrifying statistic is death caused by pharmaceuticals. Our own meds are killing us.
http://www.cancure.org/medical_errors.htm
So, not only do we need a single payer system supported by tax dollars, we also need a strict system of accountability.
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shyanbelle
June 4, 2007, 11:25 p.m.Since when do we need Dennis Kucinich for any thing? This guy is about as off base with the majority of the USA as they come. But thats what happens when your in politics as long as some of these people are, you buy votes from people and people buy your mouth to spit the venom they want pushed....
Kucinich, Clinton, Clark (Michael Moores little bitch boy) all bought mouths.... Obama's a new mouth pushed by those who oppose some of these other buyers views.... The democratic side of the congress is about as corrupt as they come.
I mean look at their leader, would rather go to Syria and succumb to them and Iran because they all hate Bush then stick up for their own country and culture and NOT wear a head dress. That alone proves how they would rather appease.
So yeah, Kucinich is a bought mouth. Just like most democrats in office and some republicans.
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aceofspades1
June 4, 2007, 11:46 p.m.Populist - I'm getting the feeling that you believe ANARCHY is too organized
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arcrftmech16
June 5, 2007, 6:04 a.m.By its very nature all forms of government are inefficient burdensome. Anyone that works for the government or is involved in any aspect of the government understands and knows this. All govrenment run social programs are complete failures in providing services, funds, and the needs they have been created for. The Social Security program was once a solvent and well run organization to provide at least some income for a retirement. Then when congress took over control of the SSA, it has become insolvent, going in the red, and turned in to a welfare program for everyone, legal or illegal, in the US. Now we here that the SSA needs tax increases and more welfare programs that the government should not be responsible for. This includes health care, and socialized medicine does not work in the US. Socialized medicine will only feed the existing corruption in medical care and not provide the needed health care. All government run programs are slow, inefficient, and riddled with incompetence.
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GenButler
June 5, 2007, 7:23 a.m.A few months ago I hads an absecessed tooth that sent me to the ER. I waited 8 hours to see a doctor for 5 minuites only to receive a perscription for penicillin. Another man had a burned hand. He waited 8 hours also. My insurance company was billed nearly $500 and they're billing me another $150. If there were a singhle motto to sum up the American health care system it would be; "Don't get sick".
Most of our hospitals are privately run for-profit corps. Insurance and pharmaceutical firms control the whole business and there is a MINIMUM of government interference now. The AMA fights every proposed new regulation and a lot of the existing ones. Sure, the government-run systems are grossly inefficient and inadequate, but they are also grossly under-funded and overburdened. De-privatizing our health care system is the only sensible step toward a solution.
Why not have a tiered system built on COMMUNITY hospitals and family care clinics?
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jai61
June 5, 2007, 7:25 a.m.This would kill the Republicans since all they do is make money off the people.
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nobleeth
June 5, 2007, 9:04 a.m.I saw that new movie SICKO in France last week, and it is all about this problem and how sad as a country we have become. I think it comes out this summer here in the states, if you really want to see what's going on, it's a must-see. The government fought a public healthcare system saying it will fail... strange how it's working so well in dozens of other major western cultures.
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nobleeth
June 5, 2007, 9:05 a.m.I just found the web-site for that movie, Sicko-themovie.com, you can tell your horror story there to Michael Moore. Maybe if enough people speak up, we can at least make a dent.
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quillyregnold
June 5, 2007, 9:07 a.m.It would be nice, but will never happen. Lobbyists are everywhere, for every industry, service & product out there.
The only way this will happen is if you get some honest politicians that won't take bribes from lobbyists. Good luck with that one!!! The chances of this happening are the same likelihood that Neo's & Lib's won't argue anymore.
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bill2936
June 5, 2007, 9:22 a.m.Want to lower the cost of medical treatment so everyone can afford it, two words: Tort Reform.
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jk5489
June 5, 2007, 9:38 a.m.People seem to think that the medical industry would remain the same with the government merely negotiating better prices. In reality the medical field would respond to market conditions. The pharmaceutical industry would either leave the country or would wither under govt price controls. There would be absolutely no incentive to research and develop new drugs - so the industry would die, leaving the government to step in and take over completely.
The same with quality doctors - the best doctors would move to another country or find a different field altogether. There would be zero incentive to work in the US as a doctor when they could make more money elsewhere.
It is easy to be for a proposal like this unless you have a cronic illness requiring specialized care. Nationalized healthcare is death sentence for millions at the hands of the government.
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quackpot
June 5, 2007, 9:41 a.m.As long as our representatives in the U.S. Government are beholden to corporations and powerful intrest groups, placing health care in the hands of the Federal Government will only result in the individual being fleeced by the Pharamceutical/for-profit hospital/AMA group.
Look at the sweetheart deal the pharamceutical industry got from medicare part D (prescription drug plan for senoirs)
Look at the limited supply of physicians that is engineered by restricting Medical School Class size.
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ningyo
June 5, 2007, 10:06 a.m.i cant believe anyone still thinks a single payer healthcare system is a good idea--thhis is what they have in canada and the govt essentially decides who gets what care and when--its been an awful failure everywhere its been tried and thats why people who live in countries that have this come here for care--the govt is just not good at running this sort of thing--your healthcare will be managed by beaurocrats who dont care,cant be fired and are just putting in their 8 waiting to retire--anyone who has been through the social security mill or VA care knows what to expect from this
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