This story is archived
Withdrawal is not defeat »
Posted by: jovial 2 years, 5 months agoThe idea of fighting a war on behalf of U.S. credibility hasn't been debated since the height of the Vietnam War. Yet that is precisely what some Iraq war supporters are now advocating.
Read Full Story at iht.com »
Submitted By:
jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
Who Also Submitted:
This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed
Comments: 315
-
Amazing1
June 11, 2007, 5:42 p.m.Since the advent of the Bush administration, and in particular since the wrong headed invasion of a sovereign nation, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, suspension of habeas corpus, et al, the credibility of this nation is nearly at zero anyway. And the longer we stay, the more credibility we lose.
One way to increase our credibility as a people is to impeach this administration and thus prove to the rest of the world that the populace of this nation is neither stupid, lawless, complicit nor powerless. And that we do not endorse the malfeasance displayed by this current administration.
We need government OF, BY and FOR the PEOPLE, including the people who nearly two years ago lost everything to Katrina and Rita. We need to prove credibility for our own.
-
mamasan
June 11, 2007, 7:55 p.m."But just because an optimistic scenario is no longer possible doesn't mean defeat is the only alternative. Indeed, war supporters are creating a self-fulfilling policy. By describing anything less than the surge as losing, they are painting American policy into a corner."
that is the Truth!
USA out of Iraq NOW!!!!!
-
GHOSTWHOWALKS
June 11, 2007, 8:12 p.m.While I agree with what has been said many times on these pages and others, nothing will get done unless every one of the current batch of idiots is replaced. The Dems have no stomach to stand for anything but the status quo and feathering their own nests. The Republicans could care less about anything but spreading fear and lies. Neither party respects the oath they took when they entered office. I fear nothing short of a rebellion will accomplish what needs done before it is to late to do anything. Time for the American people to say enough is enough and take back this country.
-
jovial
June 11, 2007, 9:33 p.m.From the story:
"And just as patriotism is said to be the last refuge of a scoundrel, so credibility should be recognized as the last argument of a failed policy."
-
disraeli
June 11, 2007, 10:11 p.m.The article is a cogent and succinct encapsulation of the situation in Iraq at present. Too bad this administration's policies are neither.
-
Radiofreeeuropa
June 11, 2007, 11:02 p.m.Ghostwhowalks, you nailed it. Jefferson said revolution was necessary every couple of generations. We are overdue.
-
mamasan
June 12, 2007, 12:14 a.m.all you war cheerleaders will be so sorry.
this war has done nothing but put a HUGE financial burden on our children.
your kids too will pay the price.
all the death has been for one aim only, to give Cash to Bush & Co.
America will suffer for this.
But Bush & Co skip merrily along.
Do you really think those who are Filthy Rich give a dam how many more die in this war?
As long as they make money off of it they are happy.
-
rimbaud
June 12, 2007, 1:28 a.m.You can withdraw, or commit to a painful birth and at least 18 years of nurture.
-
Obaku
June 12, 2007, 3:47 a.m.Iraq is like a hammer.
It just feels so good when you stop hitting yourself in the head with it.
-
HMMace
June 12, 2007, 5:31 a.m.We should get out of Iraq, and let them live thier own lives
The iraqi people feel no debt to us for removing Saddam..One month after we opened thier schools, after saddam was out of power--they were teaching thier kids to hate the west..Nice peole these muslims..we should get out, let them kill each other, as they have for the last thousand years..If, some time in the future they threaten us, we should just nuke them, without losing one of our soldiers lives,,The Saudis allow thier clerics to preach hate towards us, as do the Egyptians, Kuwaitis, all the muslims countrys allow it, why do we stand for it, We should just go and take our oil..Kill them all, and be done with them..Just as the jews should have run the pals into the sea fifty years ago..and been done with them..
Then we shoud start telling our kids what murderers these people are..not to socialize with them, or make friends with them..Just as they do us..As I see it today, the Iraqi people deserved Saddam..
-
arcrftmech16
June 12, 2007, 6:21 a.m.Iraq and all the other Muslim countries and their people are run by their religion, not democracy. Democracy and religious zealouts don't mix and it has been this way for thousands of years and it won't change. We need to withdraw and allow them to re-establish their own culture and politics as we will never force a democratic government in these countries. When the people are ready they will do it on their own. There in lies the difference when comparing the US with England in WWII, England asked for our help and welcomed us. Bush & Co, a good metaphor, has an agenda to occupy and rule the Middle East and its oil supply. A purely political and dictorial quest by big business and corporate america. Our military are trained to fight an army, not a populace of armed and disorganized civilians all fighting to control their domains. Our military would best serve this country by securing our own borders and to stop the illegals from entering, and deporting by force those that are here.
-
mamalisa
June 12, 2007, 6:57 a.m.I have a great idea for all of the people out there that support Pres Bush and his lovely war in Iraq. Put your money where your mouth is..... enlist. You think this is a noble cause this war in Iraq well join up! If you are 42 years or younger the Army will be more than happy to accept your enlistment. Put your life where your mouth is. I hear summer in Iraq is a lovely time of year. libsrfunny, kingoftruth, luvmyprez and all of you supporters of this war please please head out to your local army recruiter and really put it out there otherwise, don't sit here and open your mouths in support of this war and bash people who think it is an horrible waste of life and money. I am sick to death of reading your rhetoric, go live or die for your cause.
-
quackpot
June 12, 2007, 7:26 a.m.The U.S. will NEVER withdraw from Iraq. The objective of the U.S. presence in Iraq is to protect OUR oil. Period. OUR oil because we took it when we invaded Iraq.
All of the talk about terror and democracy has some element of truth since it will be easier to protect OUR oil when we have a stable puppet government controling Iraq. But, democracy is really a side issue.
To say that the war is about al-Qaeda is stupid. With 160,000 soldiers we could take them out in ten minues, not four years. To say that the war is about democracy is stupid. Otherwise we would now be fighting in a very large number of countries other than Iraq.
-
mamalisa
June 12, 2007, 7:59 a.m.how is my saying they join the army spewing hate???
If they and yourself feel so strongly that this way is just then join up and fight.
-
mamalisa
June 12, 2007, 8:08 a.m.So easy for people to send others children to fight wars they see just. I don't want to see anymore young men and women dying and being mamed for what? That doesn't make me liberal. i am a republican no a democrat. I am far from liberal. I simply think this war is wrong and if you support it you go shed your own blood not someone elses childs.
-
SlapALib
June 12, 2007, 9:03 a.m.Yeah, it would be defeat in the case of Iraq, but the real question is: Could there have ever been victory?
-
WCFIELDS
June 12, 2007, 10:53 a.m."...a withdrawal and redeployment of American forces would constitute a defeat..."
This is a famous quote from the July Issue, 2005, "What Me Bush?" Issue of Mad Magazine. I'm surprised the author believed that anyone with more than a single brain cell would believe such a concept originated from anywhere other than Mad Magazine.
-
GenButler
June 12, 2007, 11:01 a.m.The notion of "American Credibility" is itself a myth. The U.S. has occasionally offered aid and ONCE ( WWII) engaged militarily in a justifyable war. The entire rest of our foreign policy history has been despicable. The U.S. has ALWAYS (except WWII) supported dictators and bloody regimes which act in the inrterests of U.S. businesses. We have ROUTINELY overthrown or prevented democracies ( Iraq, Nicaragua, Chile, Indonesia, Iran, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc.). There is no "credibility" here to save or restore. It must be ESTABLISHED. Withdrawing from Iraq would be a start.
The factions that might vie for power after the U.S. leaves were nurtured by U.S. policy, just as Al Queda and the Taliban are products of U.S. influence. Still, there is nothing we can do militarily to reverse the damage or eradicate the problems we've created. If civil war erupts in Iraq we will be partly to blame but the most we can do is send material aid.
-
-
mamalisa
June 12, 2007, 11:17 a.m.jzink, if withdrawl is defeat than what would be your description of victory in Iraq? And if you know what victory would be would you please describe it and what efforts it would take to attain it?
-
joeblowe
June 12, 2007, 11:20 a.m.Well, here's the deal: if we pulled out of Iraq RIGHT NOW - we could check off one in the "WIN" column. We went there to beat Saddam and his army. Done. Put up a democratically elected government. Done again. Put down a check mark and let's go. It wasn't our INTENTION when we went there to stay indefinitely to stave off a civil war. Was it?
-
albionperfides
June 12, 2007, 11:32 a.m.libsarefunny
What were you doing when Hitler was massing troops at the Channel in May 1940. Nothing. Only when Hiltler declared war on the US after Pearl Harbour did you start to help and when the war was over you sent the bill. The UK finished paying you in 2006.
-
albionperfides
June 12, 2007, 12:17 p.m.djn3nunez3
I know about lend/lease and the Marshall Plan and Truman refusing Atlee's request for a special loan after WW11.
The point I was making was that in May 1940 with the Wehrmacht at the Channel where was the help? Congress had to be appeased by Rooseveldt to authorise aid and Lend/Lease was all he could get. You didn't comment on the UK finally paying off the US Bill for all this only in 2006.
-
eviln3d
June 12, 2007, 12:22 p.m.Funny how any topic that mentions the invasion of iraq ends up as little more than a loony liberal ver right wing nut battle.
Why doesn't anyone attack the whole premise of "Withdrawal is not defeat". The fact is life is not a soccer match you don't have draws. You win or you lose. If you leave before winning you lost. You not like to call it a loss but that's what it is. If I stop playing a game with someone I lose, doesn't matter if I had almost all the chips or nearly none, the first one to leave before the game is done is the loser.
Or is this whole article written by one of those numb nut liberals that doesn't like competition because it make the loser feel bad.
-
allasam
June 12, 2007, 12:23 p.m.A serious threat to world peace and the US is Syria and Iran who sponsor terrorism around the world. The folly in Iraq SHOULD have been forseen by the CIA who fell completely once again. (A previous instance of the CIA being totally tuned out was when the Shah of Iran was ousted without the CIA having a clue that the khomeinis were about to take power over a strong US ally)
The best thing that could have happened with Iraq was to have left Saddam in power and he would have been a very strong ally of America, because he hated al Quaida and wouldn't tolerate Islamic extremeists to run his country! If the US leaves now, Syria, Iraq and Iran become one lethal force for trouble around the world. Being there to steal Iraqi oil is not good enough. The propaganda spread by the US Military THROUGH the controlled US Media is the same as in Vietnam, where 'We are winning' are buzzwords until 'We are leaving in defeat' became the shock words.
All because GWB needed to avenge his daddy. Same old.
The first 246 comments are shown. Show all 315 comments »
Submit a Story
Advertisement
