Sex, Religion, and Guilt... Will It EVER End? »
Posted By dan-and-jennifer 1 year, 11 months ago in StyleWomen and virgins... "Hey - who broke the safety seal on this one?!". Here are some thought provoking questions on the impacts of a strong religious upbringing on modern sexuality.
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Bkumm1 year, 11 months ago
There's a safety seal? Crap, nobody told me.
Look, I figure you wouldn't buy a car that you're going to have for five years without test driving it, why in the name of whatever you find holy would you not 'test drive' your mate that you're (possibly) going to have for a lifetime? It just doesn't make any sense.
Most of the hooey that we have relating to marriage can be traced back to the Middle Ages and feudalism. Religion got sucked into it because the Church benefited enormously.
Do I know the original feelings of Jesus or Mohammed on the subject? Nope. And neither does anyone else.
If you love somebody take them to bed, but be sure to respect all sides of the arrangement and NEVER, EVER take that person's feelings for granted.
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
The only issue I have is with the 'test-drive' analogy. It makes women little more than property, and makes their ability to pleasure you sexually their prime use in marriage. A much better test-drive would be to go babysitting with them (to see their parenting skills), or to start an argument with them (to see their conflict-resolution skills), as these will likely both play a larger part in the marriage-to-come than sex itself.
If you both want to have sex before you marry, go ahead, but don't pretend it's so that you know what is in store in your married life. It's because you want sex! Yes, some people are probably more talented than others at it, but I think it's a skill pretty much anyone can learn.
Don't ditch a partner because they suck in bed. Teach them. If they're insensitive, selfish, unwilling to learn, stubborn, etc... then maybe it's time to ditch them.
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DebraJMSmith1 year, 11 months ago
I have daughters and would never want to think that a man would compare sex to test driving a car. When do you plan on test driving a woman? after one date? two? Do you wait to fall in love? What if you are in love, take the test drive and the woman is not all that you wanted? Would you drop her?
As for Dan & Jennifer, they are quite foolish. They do not have the first clue as to what true Biblical Christianity is. The Catholic church teaches what the Pope teaches, even when different from God's written word. We who are born again Christians go by God's written word.
As for true Christians and sex? Dan and Jennifer have no idea what sex can be like for us, though they sure want to think they know. It is obvious that they want to believe that true Christians are sex-starved. I have news for them. We are free to have sex, appreciate it and love every moment alone with the one we love, the one we married. The Bible encourages sex between a husband a wife.
Debra...
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kriicket1 year, 11 months ago
Well...I have a question.....So what's wrong with someone wanting to wait until marriage and also find someone else who has waited. I'll be the first to say, that its not easy to find someone willing to wait.
We complain about the number of teen pregnancies, STDs, abortions, etc., but nothing is being done to stop it...if anything, we're seeing more and more sexual situations on the television as well as the big screen.
There are a lot of advantages to waiting, and I don't think that the people who want to wait should be discouraged.
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LauraYoung1 year, 11 months ago
I appreciate the frank discussion of this. It has amazed me how much of an issue this is for people in their later 30s even. I don't know how anyone can expect someone to be a virgin at that age. Certainly it can be done and there are many reasons people choose for it but I've heard of many instances of individuals feeling guilty and/or being judged for their "past indiscretions" at the age of 36 or 37. And often the anger and judgements are expressed by those who also hope to have a very sexually satisfying partner. Meanwhile it seems everything around us is sexualized, including nearly every Walt Disney movie accompanied by little flesh toned year round costumes for little girls. It's a recipe for disaster when you really look at all the mixed messages. That question of "will it ever end?" is appropriate!
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rwrnae1 year, 11 months ago
My wife was in her 30's when we married and was still a virgin. We dated for two years before we married, traveled all over the world together and still didn't have sex until a few weeks AFTER we were married. Sex is a tiny, insignificant part of a happy marriage. We're approaching our 60's now and still walk hand in hand everywhere we go, have never had an argument and have a great sex life. Would I have married her if she weren't a virgin? No. People don't change. Party girls party, stupid girls remain stupid, neither one is a good choice for a wife.
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
I recently had a discussion with a Gay Catholic friend about his religion. I was also raised Catholic, but have recently started attending a Presbyterian Church instead - the Catholic faith just has some oddities that I cannot agree with. I was surprised to discover that he holds fast to the beliefs of the Catholic Church.
He attends mass, but does not receive Communion, because he believes he is not living in a state of Grace. He believes (according to the Catholic tradition) that sex is intended for procreation only, and that since he has it for other reasons (i.e. pleasure), he is sinning. Since he has no intention of stopping this "sinful" behaviour, he will not accept the host under false pretenses.
I was amazed. I didn't think that people still believed that "Every Sperm is Sacred". Imagine how sexually deprived people would be if they had to wait to be ready to have a child (or another child) in order to have sex (again)!
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icelander1 year, 11 months ago
Absolutely! It's like feeling guilty about being hungry or thirsty. Sex is pleasurable for a reason, folks. There's nothing wrong with doing it so long as you take simple precautions.
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UndergroundAttraction1 year, 11 months ago
Good article/video! I think this is ONE of the biggest problems in dating. A lot of men AND women bring their emotional baggage and distorted views to relationships.
It's time for people to accept that this is the 21st century. Pretty much everyone has had at least a few sexual partners in the past. It doesn't mean that your partner would love you less just because he or she has had sex with somebody else.
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Drunkenator1 year, 11 months ago
I agree it is also an excuse to try and destroy people with other beliefs and values, ex.. the Crusades, what they did to Indians, and every holy war. But all the religions are like that. and all religions are BS. why do people have to believe some cosmic boogeyman is going get them if they dont act right. That must not be working because most super Religous people are total deushebags.
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Gee35Coupe1 year, 11 months ago
I don't normally give negs...especially as a generally non-religious person. But to say that "religion" is a sham is so utterly disrespectful of all the good people and things that religion stands for that I had to show how much I disagreed.
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kriicket1 year, 11 months ago
Why shouldn't it be discouraged? Even from a non-religious stand-point..
I think a lot of the kids who are having sex are too immature. Oh sure, they may be mature enough physically, but what about emotionally? Why shouldn't we tell our teenagers there is more to sex than just the physical pleasure.
It's glamorized all over the tv screens and movie screens, but they don't tell of the heartache of losing one's virginity to someone who doesn't give a rat's rump about them...they don't tell of the frightened person who is pregnant and don't know where to turn.
Why shouldn't it be discouraged?
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Bkumm1 year, 11 months ago
I think what you say is mostly true. But, don't you think that has much more to do with our approach to sex and sexual education than with anything else? We don't really teach our kids that sex is more than a pleasurable act, we don't teach them that it is a physical union that can make our emotional ties much stronger. We don't teach them that it is a giving of ourselves in the most intimate of ways. We don't give them all of the tools to protect themselves (both physically and emotionally), but we do put the fear there.
I don't think it should be encouraged and I don't think it should be discouraged, I think it should be approached like any other potentially wonderful and hazardous situation.
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
That's a pretty broad generalization. How do you know that all cultures have had restrictions on sex and marriage? Granted, groups of apes have a Silverback who is fiercely territorial, and that might count as a restriction on sex and marriage, but I don't know that evolutionary instinct (i.e. not wanting to chance raising someone else's genetic material) is necessarily a qualifying restriction.
Who kept the records safe during the dark ages? The Church. Therefore anything that survived is what the Church wanted to survive... and also, it can be traced back as far as the Middle ages, and no further, without having to take the word of a biased party.
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Bkumm1 year, 11 months ago
BECAUSE I WENT TO COLLEGE!!! My degree is in history. I spent 11 years as the head alter boy in the Episcopal church. I have dedicated a substantial portion of my life to the study of religions of all kinds and the history of same.
The whole insistence on virginity and monogamy became a significant part of the culture of the West during the Middle Ages because nobles wanted to ensure that they were the father of the children in their households. They wanted to make certain that their children inherited and not the head goat herds. It is no accident that the chastity belt dates from this time. The Church was hand in glove with this because it was good for the Church to be in good with the nobles. Both groups relied on each other for power. One spiritual, one physical.
Certainly, every culture has had some restrictions on marriage, it's just that the ones in the West come from the Middle Ages.
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ToucanRoucan1 year, 11 months ago
In our case the restriction goes back to Mosaic law--see Leviticus. The problem was, the property in question (the bride) was supposed to be delivered in mint condition--i.e., unused. If the item was damaged, well then, it was necessary to destroy it (by stoning) to prevent somebody else from being gyped. And there was also the question of where and when the usage was incurred--it might have been as a sex priestess at the local Ishtar temple!
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Juditt1 year, 11 months ago
The original language of Leviticus- Hebrew- does not convey the idea that the female partner in a marriage is property. In fact the oldest marriage document still in use today is the Jewish marriage document -"ketubah"- that is read during the marriage ceremony itself and the document is actually terms for payment by the groom to the bride in the event of divorce.
It may seem unusual to discuss divorce on your wedding day, but this system has worked for thousands of years because it protects, not commodifies, the female partner within a marriage.
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Reignman1 year, 11 months ago
You know what, this is the problem with society these days.. Nobody has any morals.. Its this.. Ill do whatever I want, and whatever feels good at the moment!!! All you have to do is see the disgraceful number of children born out of wedlock, the women that are on wellfare, and more children being raised without a father in the home.. Which leads to major problems in the home once the child hits the teenage years.. Teenagers girls are having children at alarming rates, this is NOT OKAY!!! Women need to learn to have some self respect and get some morals, and US MEN need to start taking responsiblity for what we do.. But us men , we get someone pregnant we run like cowards and often times without any consequences!! Disagree with me all you want, thats fine.. But the only people that would disagree with this assement are pathetic themselves and nonthing more then trash!!!! nough said..
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kriicket1 year, 11 months ago
I wish I could give you a thousand votes for this comment. Very well said!
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
You're right. Men need to take responsibility. Society shows an incredible lack of morals. From the teenage father who abandons his new co-parent, to the corporations that abandons its employees and outsources to a foreign country where they can take advantage of cheap labor, to the government that sends young men to war where they are grievously injured and turned down by Veterans Affairs when they return.
When you have sex (whether in a marriage or not) you have to accept the risks that come with it. If a child is conceived are you willing to accept it and the financial burden that goes with it?
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dan-and-jennifer1 year, 11 months ago
People like to confuse sex with love, now we're confusing sex with morality. It seems to anything to avoid talking about sex! Sex is not love. Sex is not morality. Sex is simply sex...
The real reason for the ridiculous teen pregnancy rate is not morals, but the lack of open and honest communication about sex.
How different would things be if these same children grew up in homes where sex was talked about openly and honestly - where they were actually taught the value of safe sex, and the possible consequences of sex, at an early age?
What if this open and honest communication about our bodies replaced judgement and the 'abstinence only' policy.
Let's face it, when the hormones kick in, kids need answers more than they need overly strict rules and regulations.
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jjjsuck1 year, 11 months ago
"Disagree with me all you want, thats fine.. But the only people that would disagree with this assement are pathetic themselves and nonthing more then trash!!!!"
Congratulations for being the end all and be all of what is moral and what is not! I never thought I'd meet the "decider" of morals.
I agree that teenagers need to be taught about the risks of sex and I also agree that men who get a female pregnant should take responsibility for their actions but I disagree whole-heartedly with your phrasing.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 11 months ago
''.. But the only people that would disagree with this assement are pathetic themselves and nonthing more then trash!!!! nough said..''
At least you didn't say that anyone who disagrees with you is unamerican, unpatriotic and siding with the enemy...
Don't be insecure. you made a good argument. why F it up with some weird, don't disagree /'no prophet shall come after me' ending failsafe clause
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icelander1 year, 11 months ago
Actually, teen pregnancy rates are down. But data never got in the way of a moralistic rant. Especially one with poor grammar and spelling.
Many more children are born out of wedlock in Scandinavian countries than in the US, but they're not wallowing in sin, nor do they have high crime rates. So maybe you're wrong about the real reasons we've got problems with crime and women on welfare.
And, speaking as a man who got someone pregnant and didn't run like a coward, your generalizations of both sexes is ludicrous. Of course, it wouldn't be a moralistic rant without a good helping of over generalization and accusation.
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amesburyroad1 year, 11 months ago
As I understood the guy, he also had an issue with the fact she had had multiple partners. It was never stated how many she had.
My own take is, what she did before him is her business. But, his being uncomfortable with her past is his business, and valid, in my opinion.
Maybe she had 50 partners before him and he is aware of this. He should know the extent of her previous sexual experience. Maybe he does not find this attractive. He should not be criticized for feeling this way. She also should not lie about the number of partners she has had. Would you want to buy a used car which had the odometer rolled back so you did not know the correct mileage the car had on it?
He needs to find someone more his own speed. Chances are, in the long run, he will never be as fulfilling sexually as what she had previously. Why should he deal with a hassle like that?
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
Women are not property - and unlike your ridiculous car analogy, they don't have limited 'mileage'.
Yes, she should be honest, and if he really loves her as deeply as he says he does, he shouldn't care. Nothing has changed, obviously, after all of this sex, she is still the person that he fell in love with.
As for him not being fulfilling sexually? Only if he is sexually repressed will this be true. If they enter into it and he is as compassionate a lover as he is a person, it won't matter that he doesn't initially know "the moves". Sensitivity and openness to one's partner makes a better lover than experience.
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rwrnae1 year, 11 months ago
People don't change. If she was "easy" before marriage, she's likely to be "easy" after marriage. I have more respect for a reformed prostitute than a "former" party girl. The prostitute was only in it for the money, the party girl just likes to get laid. Besides, when you're having sex with that "used" merchandise, you're indirectly having sex with everyone she has had sex with PLUS all their partners, their partners partners, etc. It could be a cast of thousands! Yuck!
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GodisWithin1 year, 11 months ago
Which one of you is battery operated? None of you breathe without the breath of God - He gives you life in every moment. Your body is His Holy Temple. Everything you see, touch, taste, feel, think and speak....He is partaking of it with you. HE IS SINLESS, PURE AND HOLY.
Where does lust come from? It is a projection from satan's demons. That's why it's called a temptation. When you accept it, (which feels like it is YOUR feeling,) you literally give a demon license and permission to use your body. They are getting their jollies using your body. They are defiling you, who are God's child, His creation.....The worst part of it ..that demon is using you to defile the Lord Jesus Christ within you. That's unacceptable. Think again, folks. Don't be so arrogant. You are not autonomous. Read my book: Lust Busters: Hooked, Lying and Stinker!ww...
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
Okay, if He experiences everything we see, touch, taste, feel, think and speak. Then when we feel pleasure, wouldn't He also feel pleasure?
Lust comes from a desire to propagate the species. Without lust, no one would have sex, and humanity would die out.
I think the Lord Jesus Christ within me is strong enough to fight the demon within me (is he not all-powerful?)
Mary was the virgin. No such claims were ever made in the Bible about Jesus.
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dan-and-jennifer1 year, 11 months ago
Where do you get off saying that God is a he?
If God is omnipresent and omnipotent, then by definition, God is male, female, plant, air, God is everything and is in everything - Including Satan, so does that make God evil?
Oh yeah - that means that God even in sex!
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GodisWithin1 year, 11 months ago
Lust Busters: Hooked, Lying and Stinker!
http://www.TheMiraclesofJesusMinistry.org/lb.htm
You are trading a few fleeting moments of sexual pleasure....for not only russian roulette of sexually transmitted diseases...but for life in eternity.
In short....participate in sex outside of marriage?
You just sold your soul to satan.
If you KNEW Jesus....really took the time to get to know Him.....to experience HIS LOVE...you'd never participate in sex outside of marriage again.
Once you KNOW His Love...you never want to be separated from Him.
Humans are made of body, soul and spirit. Your body and soul is known as the fleshly carnal man. Your body is subject to its desires. Your soul is your MIND, WILL, EMOTIONS, INTELLECT, REASONING AND IMAGINATION.
The Lord calls us to overcome the flesh (body and soul,) every day. In fact....it's in every moment. We make choices every moment. God's way or ours. You use 2%-8% of your brain. God keeps 7b of us. No contest.
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willottica1 year, 11 months ago
God calls us to overcome REASON? God calls us to overcome WILL? Didn't He give us free will for us to use? If God wants us to overcome the body and the soul, why did he bother with them? Why not just let us straight into heaven instead of putting us here?
Your message makes no sense.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 11 months ago
'life in eternity'? don't you mean 'life eternal'? I don't think eternity is a place. besides...
do I have to live forever?
I mean this life is taking long enough and already seems eternal...
PS in your previous post you say something about where lust comes from...well...
'It comes from my wiener'
I always wanted to quote Beavis and Butthead
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Futtes1 year, 11 months ago
The late Holy Father Pope John Paul II started as pope with a three year weekly discourse that was named the Theology of the Body. It's great stuff and actually meant to be quite liberating...for body, mind, and soul! Sex is held sacred in many traditions for many good reasons. I think because we are created to be sexual people, there is always the possibility of misusing this precious gift in some way...especially in our culture that says everything is good for you as long as you want or feel like doing it. I think Jesus was pretty clear though in how we are to treat others, no matter what the "sin" or "judgments" others may pass....that is in love and with dignity. Mary Magdelan as well as "the woman caught in adultery" come to mind. Poor choices have their own consequences, but I believe in a God of new beginnings. No Christian has the right to judge anyone...."let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." God Bless and Go cubbies!
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 11 months ago
if I found out I was getting EMOTIONALLY involved with someone who was an ex-party girl two-at-a-timer, or even just someone who slept around extensively, it would sure as hell give me pause, for a number of reasons. People don't change all that much, and besides, you have to wonder about how emotionally secure a woman is who's slept with scores and scores of people.
as far as the past being the past, well, the present is rooted in the past. Ignore history and all that.
and its not how she is with ME that I would be concerned about. seen too many friends datin women who don't take sex and relationships seriously, and those friends get screwed around on.
Its sorta like something you've done over and over again with many different men loses its signifigance, so why is # 57 any different or more special than number 52, or 47, or 41, or 33 or...
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rwrnae1 year, 11 months ago
"God gave man sex as a pleasurable gift. Some have accepted it, others have not."
I think it's even simpler (and cruder) than that. Our primitive ancestors had to breed early and often for the species to survive. In todays world where children may be dependent on their parents on into their 30's, it's a vestigial drive that has lost it's purpose, just like the appendix is a vestigial organ. The sex drive that enabled our species to survive is now a counter productive remnant of our past. It spreads disease, breaks up families, leaves children in the lurch. At the same time, it is easy to control IF you decide to.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 11 months ago
MeanMotherUSA. . That's why I come to Netscape. Also met some cool people.
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icelander1 year, 11 months ago
My wife's on MySpace. And the only place she's a sex crazed psycho is in my dreams.
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kedirian1 year, 11 months ago
If we had unlimited and uncensored sex, can you imagine how the effects of such attitudes would completely screw up our tax-codes?
On the other hand, I find it more than scandalous that MEN who supposedly abstain from sex as "a gift to jezus" (!) can tell the rest of us HOW to enjoy sex!
I'm inclined to believe that at least 50% of all mental health problems in this country are caused by Religion, especially Religions restrictions on sex...
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 11 months ago
And the other 50% from bad sex. LOL
Okay, it's a serious discussion about what should be a fun topic, so I'll behave. One interesting issue discussed on the thread was about a fellow's hang up (my perception) about his partner's past relationships. It would behoove the individual to investigate several sources for help, and get some insight on the matter. Then decide if he wanted to make a go of it. I don't believe a problem exists outside of the person's own fears of inadequacy and the like.
Fear is a killer.
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serious1 year, 11 months ago
The problem here is too many people act on feelings instead of listening to what the Bible says and wait until one is married. If more people die to self and think of others instead of their fleshy selves this world would be a better place. I have had many cars in my years and guess what I never tested drove any... and soon I will be in the market for a truck... I won't be test driving that either. Feelings and emotions are the downfall of our society. One night stands and sex with out marriage is not worth what the pain and problems will do to ones soul. Spirits transforms during the act, having sex just because is quite foolish and selfish. Grow-up people you are adults...learn to tame the flesh not have the flesh tame you.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 11 months ago
no sex before marriage? how is that the sensible way to go? walking around, nuts swollen, can't think straight, ready to tell a woman anything to get some relief. sensible? sensible would be telling young people that there's other activities couples can do that don't carry the risk of pregnancy over telling them just to hold out until they find someone suitable for marriage[which could take, oh a couple decades]
feelings and emotions are the downfall of society? feelings and emotions keep us tied to realitiy and their proper expression keeps us out of the looney bin.
''I have had many cars in my years and guess what I never tested drove any... and soon I will be in the market for a truck... ''
Is that a metaphor that you're dating or lookin to hook up with a plus-size woman? cause I know a couple nice ones...
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KYRed1 year, 11 months ago
Sex has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with the human capacity to accept being not selfish. which it doesn't
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KYRed1 year, 11 months ago
Guilt will never end. Because in a lot of people's minds they know what is right and when they go against their opinion of what is right , they know they have done wrong. It is up to the individual to forgive him/herself and then move on and do better.
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jeanneofcedarmills1 year, 11 months ago
The original comment and many following it that agree with it clearly demonstrate how clever human nature is in justifying the selfish and self-gratifying actions it prefers to enjoy in spite of the built-in conscience God gave us telling us when we are sinning. The flimsy and transparent excuse that you must sample a person before marrying him or her is ridiculous and terribly shallow. Marriage is only as good as the two people in it and has little to do with being an acrobat or professional in bed. The happiest marriages I know are built on love of God, family, home and consist of two unselfish people each trying to make the other happy rather than use someone to make them happy. The mutuality of the unselfish partners goes a long way to ensure the happiness of both.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 11 months ago
One of the truths I was taught as a teenager is to think with the head on your shoulders, not the one in your pants. This I have passed on to my children
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