Informed bigotry versus Ignorant tolerance »

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  RickyDawkins

  Aug. 17, 2007, 2:18 a.m.

  PZ's bigotry is informed because PZ's blog has been documenting the great amounts of ignorance, delusion, wickedness, foolishness and oppression he finds in the news. For example, in just the past few days PZ has posted these items on his blog:

  Another liar for Jesus

  The great parasite and liar in the sky

  Prayer for dummies

  http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

  Of course, PZ is cherry picking his evidence, just like most of us in the blogosphere, and even PZ's own daughter rebuked us all for getting into this stupid fight. However, we've got more than PZ's cherry picked evidence to go on, we've also got extensive cross-national attitude studies, Gallup Poll data and more. Large groups and majorities believe in a personal God, an afterlife, Bible stories, the Devil, Hell, Heaven and miracles. There is a very low level of scientific literacy about human evolution in America when compared to other developed nations.

  http://normdoering.blogspot.com/
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  Prismoon

  Aug. 17, 2007, 5:46 a.m.

  I sometimes wonder if it is tolerance that brings about these wars of reason. A recent article speaks of how opinions that are constantly repeated to an audience become fact, even if they are completely unproveable and against rational thought. By tolerating the opinions that we know to be incorrect we create confusion, a confusion of knowledge, which leads to this type of heated running argument.

  Nicely written article.
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  pismo

  Aug. 17, 2007, 8:15 a.m.

  Bigotry will always exist. Does that make it OK? Absolutely not. We ALL have this problem to some extent. Take Nazi's for instance. They believed whites with blue eyes were superior. If we all looked exactly the same we would discriminate based on location, height, age, ect. This is all human nature. Religion is no different. Every religion believes their god is superior and if you don't follow their form of worship you are not going to heaven. This is crazy when you think about it. Everyone know right from wrong for the most part. This is God's will written on your heart and in the soul. Belonging to a group, whatever it is will bring out the worst in people when it comes to bigotry. Everyone knows bigotry is wrong except when it comes to their own bigotry. Like I said everyone has this problem. We just don't like to admit it.
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  PhilosophicPreacher

  Aug. 17, 2007, 10:08 a.m.

  This was an excellent article and all of us should consider the importance of it. At some level it makes one wonder about the limits of human 'reason' and 'faith.' I think I will go re-read Kant's "Transcendental Aeshtetic." Again, a great article.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 17, 2007, 1:01 p.m.

  From Wikepedia

  A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

  I guess bigotry of the Intellegent Atheist is okay since they are right and everyone else is wrong. As long as this intolerance is words only I can be tolerant of it. But many atheists have gone beyound that in history. Just as many Christians have been bigoted down through history.

  Personally I have the philsophy live and let die. You see I will not try to force anyone to beleive anything. If that causes them to die that is their own fault. I can talk to them reaons with them present evidence but it is their choice. So I am not a bigot. But atheist at least here find it okay for them to be bigots.
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  broad-ley

  Aug. 17, 2007, 2:30 p.m.

  Ricky you are not balanced in your approach to the fact regarding God and the Bible. He is perfect and His people are not. He must deal with them to correct their evil ways. IF you want to see how God truly views His people look at Isaiah 63. His view of His people is they're stiff-necked evil idolators. Don't judge God and His word by man. Make an honest assessment. Look at the Bible in the Original languages and discern who God is for yourself. Quit attacking without studying your subject. You are saying it's is God's fault things are as they are? His peoples? He indicates we are the problem. Read and see which you think is the problem. There is the problem. Draw near to God he'll draw near to you. Look to the Lord and ask. You seem afraid to go one on one in the Bible with God and what He says. It might be it is not very joyous reading. Hearing what he says about humanity is not best seller material.
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  RickyDawkins

  Aug. 17, 2007, 3:04 p.m.

  6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things

  Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21

  God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all

  things

  Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

  7. God knows the hearts of men

  Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3

  God tries men to find out what is in their heart

  Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

  8. God is all powerful

  Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26

  God is not all powerful

  Judg 1:19

  9. God is unchangeable

  James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19

  God is changeable

  Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/

  Ex 33:1,3,17,14

  10. God is just and impartial

  Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25

  God is unjust and partial

  Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
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  PhilosophicPreacher

  Aug. 17, 2007, 3:25 p.m.

  I think RD posted an excellent article, and I think RD's reason for posting it has been lost on most here. Its a shame we have degenerated the conversation to this level. But since we are here (saw that one comin' huh?), These obvious contradictions you point out, aren't all obvious, but rather a point of context. However, maintaining verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible does not give us all the answers to supposed contradictions in the Bible. I think many Christians take a literal approach to scripture because they feel it will give them all the answers. It doesn't. I think many Christian scholars create complex theologies to try and have all the answers. They don't. The walk of faith is not easy, but is a living experience. Some problems I have had with Scripture have been made clear to me in my walk. Some have not, and I am not afraid to admit that. I don't believe that makes my faith 'illegitimate' or 'backward or 'unreasonable'.
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  not2needy

  Aug. 17, 2007, 6:28 p.m.

  RD,

  You, and a few other people on NS, have set you up as some sort of ICON to be worshiped. Your tenets are to be accepted without question and you are to be taken to the our bosoms, giving you all the accolades you think you so richly deserve.

  HOGWASH! You are worse than any con attempting to sell religion, you are selling yourself. You are egotistical and border on being a complete maniac where religion is concerned. You protesteth toooooo much, I think the Devil has a hold on you, and you're out here doing his dirty work for him, and call it science. I have a nephew who is a research scientist, and he believes in God! Your theories are very flawed, one sided, and prejudiced to anything other than your own person belief, and you endlessly attempt to force your beliefs on everyone, then poopoo anyone who disagrees with you. Very intelligent of you eh?

  Just as i believe in God and Heaven, i also believe in the Devil and Hell. The Devil is rampant in you.
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  not2needy

  Aug. 17, 2007, 7:45 p.m.

  RD,

  You're using NS to sell your agenda. I'm sure it's of some financial benefit to you, you're not doing this for our benefit, that for certain.
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  comfortstrike

  Aug. 17, 2007, 9:45 p.m.

  www.parentalguide.com will teach you who God is and what is about to happen
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  cas10

  Aug. 17, 2007, 10:48 p.m.

  My very personal opinion about this subject...If your personal beliefs whether in God,a rock,a frog or a pile of crap,make you a nice and honest person...then I am sold.My point is personally I do not care about your religion or your beliefs, I do care about the person and how i am treated.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 21, 2007, 1:58 p.m.

  First in my understanding hell is not forever. The Wages of sin is death. A person is punished only exactly as much as they deserve then they die. Cease to exist are no more.

  NOw we have here Atheists saying those who believe are weak minded and that we control our imaginary god. First part is an insult the second is illogical. YOu cannot control what does not exist. So we could not control and imaginary god. You could say we modify what we think but that is about it.

  Then we have Christians saying that the other side if following a being they do not beleive in and will burn in a hell they do not believe will ever exist after being judged by a fictional character. This is also illogical.

  So we have illogical humans dealing with each other without really thinking about what they are saying. I have discussions on Beleifnet with others some who think and some who do not. If anyone wishes a real dialouge. You could meet me there. In the meantime you should at least listen.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 21, 2007, 2:05 p.m.

  First there is not eternal burning hell. That is a holdover from paganism. The wages of sin is death. If you wish to disagree with me on that you can find me in the dialouge section under beleifnet.

  Then we have the insult those who believe in GOD are weak minded and the statement we control our imaginary god. If GOD is imagianary then he does not exist to be controled. So the statment is illogical.

  ON the other side we have Christians telling people that they are lead by the devil which they do not believe exist and are going to hell which they do not believe exists. That is also illogical.

  I suggest we all think about what we write and actually try to talk to each other.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 21, 2007, 2:16 p.m.

  now RickyDawkins

  First thank you for pointing out that I do misspell and have typing errors. How erudite of you.

  You wrote.

  For example, if you think that slavery is okay or if you think that homosexuality is a sin, then you are a bigot. Or if you think that atheism is wrong, then you are a bigot. If you think that scrambled eggs are inherently better than fried eggs, then you are a bigot.

  Thinking something or someone is wrong does not make a person a bigot. It is the intolerance of the other. I beleive they all people should have equal rights including homosexuals. I simply disagree with their viewpoint. The eggs is sarcasm and does nothing.

  Now you could say I am intolerant of slavery. Since I beleive this is a great evil and it allowed to go on in the United States when it should be stopped. But the politicians do not have the stomach to do so.

  As for atheists. I am very tolerant of you. Should I not be since I hope you are tolerant of me?
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  infidell2space

  Aug. 21, 2007, 6:52 p.m.

  (((Then we have the insult those who believe in GOD are weak minded and the statement we control our imaginary god.))) Can you show me where an atheist said this? If you can't, I'll assume you just "feel" stupid when atheists point out basic problems inherit to "religious belief" that are so obvious that they cannot be denied.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 22, 2007, 10:54 a.m.

  There is no ever burning hell. That is a pagan belief adapted by some early Christians who did not understand the Jewish origin of Christianity.

  The wages of sin is death. Not eternal punishment.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 22, 2007, 11:08 a.m.

  To Infidell2space

  Here are the two posts I was referring too.

  2007-08-19 20:11:04 cantfoolme

  No it is religious people who control their imaginary god.

  2007-08-17 16:07:32 RickyDawkins

  Did you know that our own Milky Way Galaxy has 300 billion stars in it? I wonder if God controls the weak-minded in those solar systems as well...

  I agree there are problems in religious belief. There are problems in every philosophy. I believe the Belief in the Bible is reasonable. But it does have problems. This is why I used to be an agnostic. But I believe the problems have answers. You and others do not.
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 27, 2007, 12:34 p.m.

  They statements can be satire. That does not make them not insulting.

  Now I have read the whole KJV six time. The NASB twice. The Jerusalem Bible once. As well as the RSV, ASV and the New International twice. I have read the New Testament many more time.

  I have not read Paines age of reason. I might. I have read some others books against the Bible. But not in awhile. Russels Why I am not a Christian was one. The ones I read has basically the same arguements.

  Did you watch the PBS special on Lewis vs Freud. It was very good. I have also on tape a series by atheists which I have not finished watching. I do need to get around to it. In High School debate I picked up the habit of reading both sides since it gives a greater understanding of the topic. Have you read any books in defence of the Bible?
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  hsamwilliams

  Aug. 27, 2007, 12:41 p.m.

  I have read the KJV six times. The NASB twice as well as the New International version. I have the complete Bible at least once in the Jerusalem, RSV and ASV. I have read the New Testament more often in different versions.

  True the words maybe sarcastic. They are still meant to be insults.

  I have not read Paines Age of Reason. But I have read Russels Why I am not a Christian. One day I may get around to reading Paines book. I picked up the habit of reading both sides of an issue in HIgh School debate.

  Did you watch the PBS special on Freud vs Lewis? I also have another special with discssions by atheists that I have not finished watching yet. What pro Bible books have you read?

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