The Myth of Adoption vs. Abortion »
Posted By deathray 1 year, 8 months ago in NewsWhy politicians are wrong to trumpet the former as a solution to the latter.
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deathray
Hm...summarizing a life...Investment banker, sailor, unintentional gourmet cook. Ex US Naval officer, also Foreign Service. Split my time between NYC and Miami Beach ...
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deathray1 year, 8 months ago
Another excellent example of how easily statistics can be manipulated to fit one's political agenda. With a clear difference between relinquished adoptions and adoptions arranged through the foster care system, it's difficult to believe that those who provided Giuliani with these numbers, and in fact the mayor himself, weren't aware of the discrepancies in his representation of the facts.
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quicksilver06021 year, 8 months ago
As stated in the article, the Western world has far fewer abortions than countries where the practice is forbidden. The quality education and contraceptive information provided in this country clearly has an effect; albeit under-funded.
We are sexual beings; the sooner our political and religious leaders accept this, the better off we'll be and fewer of them will live tortured lives, pretending they're not.
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hdthehn1 year, 8 months ago
One should be able to put one foot in a bucket of boiling water and the other foot in a bucket of ice water and on statistical average be pretty comfortable.
Most prolifers (Bush and his crew) will protect life from conception until birth and afterwards be unwilling to provide a thin dime for the child from age 1 day until age 18 years. It is the purest form of hypocrisy. Ever hear of SCHIP?
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 8 months ago
Seems all we hear is spin on this subject. It's impossible to argue with the raw statistics though.
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gamahuche1 year, 8 months ago
FTA
Behind virtually every abortion is an unintended pregnancy. The sooner politicians accept that the only way to meaningfully achieve fewer abortions is to do better in helping women and their partners prevent unintended pregnancies in the first place, the better.
Unfortunately the people who most need to hear this message are those who most fervently resist offering birth-control options to ANY women and then most strongly condemn those whose only remedy for the unwanted pregnancy is the ensuing abortions. A classic lose/lose situation all round.
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Endoscopy1 year, 8 months ago
Safe sex right? My favorite rant. One I get angry about. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SAFE SEX. Condoms are to prevent disease and pregnancy. All other types only prevent pregnancy. Good condoms have a failure rate of 10%. Others are worse.
My daughter believed the safe sex idiocy and caught herpes and became pregnant practicing it. She didn't think her old man knew anything. I was just an old stick in the mud. She now has three kids and no husband. She is now living with me so she can get an education to earn a living wage.
Explain to me how to prevent pregnancy and VD.
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AnteUp1 year, 8 months ago
gamahuche ~
Against abortion AND against birth control or sexual
education? I believe abortion is probably the WORST
form of birth control - it is a decision that most
thinking people find difficult to make and hard to
live with afterward. The right likes to portray the
issue as if all Pro-Choice supporters were dying to
HAVE one! Why would a truly Pro-life supporter fight
against the availability of birth control?
Someone is NOT being truthful - there is another
agenda that they find harder to sell to the public.
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Charlson1 year, 8 months ago
Prolife is anti-children: You're not allowed to have sex and if you do and become pregnant, you'll have to live with the consequences. Many of these children that are born, are born to single mothers, who can't afford the costs of raising them and the government is asked to help while the prolife folks clamour to cut welfare and government assistance. If anyone is at fault besides the ones who become pregnant it is the same folks who want to outlaw abortions and cut government costs for indigent children. These people would not be so hypocritical if they were against abortions and were for helping these women who have unwanted pregnancies but are willing to carry the child to birth. Put your money where your mouth is or live with that consequence.
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AtheismIsRealityComment removed: User banned.
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Amazing11 year, 8 months ago
From the article, "And the world's lowest rates of abortion by far are found in Western Europe, where very few legal restrictions are placed on abortion but contraceptive use and comprehensive sex education are widespread."
But then, here in the US, we have the super conservatives who don't want women to have access to birth control and vehemently oppose sex education.
Go figure.
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Klarissa1 year, 8 months ago
I think that you would find that it is a huge majority of republicans that believe that a woman's womb is none of congresses or any officer of the government's business.
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not2needy1 year, 8 months ago
Placing children up for adoption isn't the answer for people who don't want their children.
Many good families have waited for years and years, fallen through the cracks, trying to adopt, all the while too many children are raised in foster homes.
Then....... down the road biological parents decide they want their children BACK, and judges give them back!
NAH Adoption isn't the answer.
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catstevensComment removed: User banned.18 Replies
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koranagirl1 year, 8 months ago
oh, cut the crap with the "woman suffers" stuff. not all women believe that abortion is murder. and many get abortions and don't cry a tear. we are basically spirits attached to flesh, and why the heck would a spirit entity attach to a woman knowing that she is only going to have an abortion.
comeonnow, the spirits to be born are on the otherside and they know exactly what's going to happen. if they're not born with their first choice for a mother, they can be born either later by her, or with another woman altogether.
abortion is not murder, and no spirit entity on the otherside will demand that a woman bring her into the world. that's just ridiculous. when a women is ready, she will have her baby. the absolutely best way to ensure that child will be born is to make sure the woman has a partner, food, clothes and insurance. sheesh.
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Charlson1 year, 8 months ago
I can't help thinking that behind every forced birth we have a failure and a woman and child who suffers ( very often: social distress ). All the rest is number, number and statistic!
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
The self-serving hypothesis that Guiliani presents as fact will not convert anyone from either side. Exploitation of the voters and Guiliani's disengenuous concern about adoption and abortion nauseates me.
Time to stir up middle America. Yes, it's that time again. With too many homophobes and anti-abortionists threatening to vote against the GOP because of War, corporate greed, and a failing government, fear, false propaganda, and prejudice are the Republican's only weapons. I can already hear the lemmings starting to run.
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catstevensComment removed: User banned.24 Replies
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
Yes, let's blame the women for using abortion as a method of birth control and "stop pointing fingers."
That's the funniest post I've read today. Thanks!
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catstevensComment removed: User banned.25 Replies
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catstevensComment removed: User banned.
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RedstateLib1 year, 8 months ago
For most women abortion is a method of las resort! Better to teach young women effective means of avoiding pregnancy. Then abortion would be so rare it would not be a concern.
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catstevensComment removed: User banned.10 Replies
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
During the 90's a federal grant program was initiated giving states funding for education that was geered to convince young people to avoid premarital sex before marriage. A study by SIECUS found that abstinence... programs are ineffective.
The grant program was supported heavily by right wing Republicans-- the very people who object to sex education and birth control awareness. Lack of respect for our young people and women in this society has caused more suffering than anything else.
But to listen to Guiliani speaking about adoption as a viable solution to abortion is exactly what the flat earthers want to hear. Let's get real! This is just another political ploy for the "liberal" republican to adjust his NY image for the national arena.
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koranagirl1 year, 8 months ago
yeah, guiliani's pretty scary. adoption instead of abortion. i'd like to see him get pregnant and carry a kid for 9 months! what a hoot. i've had 4 and it's no picnic being pregnant.
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rogerhelmich1 year, 8 months ago
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Him that hath an ear....
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ETproductions1 year, 8 months ago
So many darned inconvenient truths. But the Repugs have the answer. Truthiness. Works every time.
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geauxbill1 year, 8 months ago
'Behind every Abortion is an unwanted pregnancy'. To that arguement, I counter with,contraceptives are not;I repeat NOT 100% effective. Having sex that is intended and getting pregnant (which some say is unintended,even though you use freewill to get in the bed with someone,and therefore you risk it each time you do it),is like saying," I'll use a mouse to guard the cheese".Idiotic.People in America need to use their God-given common sense. You'd have better odds winning the lottery than betting on not getting pregnant. "The sooner politicians accept that to meaning fully achieve fewer Abortions is to do better in helping women and their partners prevent unintended pregnancies in the first place ,the better". Some politicians are. There have been talks of establishing abstinance programs,but some people don't want to have the discipline needed to keep their legs closed.Thus solving the problem.
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geauxbill1 year, 8 months ago
Politicians should not be allowed to decide who lives and who dies,as in Nazi Germany at the death camps.Are we to become like them? We have been because we accept Abortion without question,and vote for politicians that support the destruction of life for whatever reason. "It is a crime that a child must DIE so that you may live as you wish."------Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 8 months ago
correct me if I'm wrong, but Mother Teresa may be a bad example in a discussion of birth control and abortion, since the Church didn't allow for birth control back in the day. which if you think about it, in the impoverished and squalid areas she did her work, was a damn shame, and to me criminal, bringing a child into the world who is pretty much guaranteed a bloated belly and flies on the eyes, when birth control could prevent such suffering.
Been a very long time since I was catholic, like 25-30 years, but I remember the catholic church being against any birth control except for 'the rhythm method'.
My mom apparently wasn't very musicaly inclined according to my seven siblings
But anyway I always wondered why the church had such a problem with birth control, even in marriage, and I still don't really know, tho I believe the pope changed his mind and said it was OK to wear a c***sock now.
I really don't remember back that far much, but that's how I remember it
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infidell2space1 year, 8 months ago
geauxbill, you're just another religious wacko, to blinded by your faith to even be able to say anything worth while. Yes, we all have heard this before, contraceptives are not 100% effective, but they are 98% effective. At 98% effective that holds the potential to to cut the unintended pregnancy rate AND abortion rates by 98%, it's called being responsible. The xtian right (wrong) is not only against abortion, they are also against birth control. The church, through its leaders, perverts and pedophiles, using a book of ancient middle eastern mythology that tells us stories of talking animals, unicorns and fiery flying serpents, and who's main character is a vicious little god who kills babies to punish people, thinks its their job to dictate our personal lives. Give us a break and get your own life.
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Patriot11 year, 8 months ago
4,000 Soldiers killed since 2001= War against terror.
4,000 Babies killed EVERY SINGLE DAY in the U.S.A.= Abortion!!!!!!!!How can you morons justify killing 4,000 babies every day, and then bitch about 4,000 soldiers killed since 2001? Do you all not see the moral contradiction here? It's very simple, if you don't want to get pregnant, then keep your damn legs shut, and your zipper up!!! Oh, wait a minute, I keep forgetting that would mean everyone would have to quit acting like a bunch of ******s!!!
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 8 months ago
you can just flip that around, and say its hypocritical to condone the deaths of soldiers and shout about aborted babies, just the same way you are saying its a moral contradiction to complain about soldiers deaths and be OK with abortion
too Serlingesque perhaps, but perspective is everything, just like when the poor astronauts are being swept up by an alien's broom, but then we see the alien is just an average housewife in Everytown USA
And it ain't all that 'simple', just zippering up
you might even say its....
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canadianrancher571 year, 8 months ago
As a male I will never know two things, 1) I will never know the feelling of having a new life growing inside my body. 2) I will never know the felling of concern if I am late for my period of being told I a pregnant. The government goes out of it's way to try to prevent some results of poor decision, they pass seat belt laws to protect us, they pass drinking limits to protect us and others, they make us obtain a liscence to drive, but none of these things can be applied to pregnancies. An unwanted pregnancy if usually a result of a bad decision. We live in a society that is still run mostly by men the problem is that when it comes to abortion or unwanted pregnancy very little blame is placed on men, maybe if men were faced to cover the costs of abortions or support a pregnant women there would be less unwanted pregnancies, although I really doubt it. Our attitude towards sex still has a long way to go in this part of the world.
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Poulenc1 year, 8 months ago
Let's put Patriot's foaming sentimentality about "killing babies" aside for a moment and address the issue at hand: it's completely daft to assume that for every abortion that's, ah, aborted, and every unwanted baby born, an adoption of that baby is, or is more likely to occur.
What would seem to occur more likely is that the adoption "market" would increase exponentially, leading to a more chancy placement of those babies/children.
In short, and has been suggested, there's no correlation between foetuses/babies "saved" from abortion and the adoption of same.
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RickyDawkins1 year, 8 months ago
He also conflates "babies" and fetuses. A common error by those who have not studied any biology.
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joeblowe1 year, 8 months ago
What do you know? An article with some sense in it. While everyone is thinking about those skewed and/or misrepresented statistics Rudy was spouting, here's more numbers you might cogitate on:
Assuming that the 1.3 million abortions has been a fairly constant rate since -- let's say 1970 -- we can now speculate that there are AT LEAST 48.1 million fewer people here than might have been the case. AND, if we assume that each of THOSE people might have had a similar "problem" at an early age, we can easily grow that number to something like 61 million or more - depending on what you think might be a good guess as to age of first pregnancy. Now, if you FURTHER assume that each of those people would have ended up on welfare of some sort, even at a bare survival level WE, the taxpayers, would have been out 732 BILLION dollars. These numbers are pretty much just WAG's, but it's good to think about the COSTS (other than the misery) of forbidding abortions.
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joeblowe1 year, 8 months ago
Is there ANYONE who is so freaking foolish as to believe that it would even be POSSIBLE to adopt out 1.3 million babies per year? Even if (as statistics show otherwise) all those potential mothers were willing to give up their kids? That's insane. And, though I don't have anything handy to back it up, I'm going to put forth the proposition that the majority of those having abortions (which statistics seem to indicate would have KEPT the babies) were NOT really what you would call your "ideal candidates" for parenthood. Yes, I know, a lot of abortions are NOT done on teens, but I'm thinking a 45 year old woman who's too dumb to use birth control may not be the best candidate for new-motherhood either.
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ecotourusa1 year, 8 months ago
the weird thing is that many women, especially from Mexico, have their children here. (so that the children become instant american citizens.)
on another thread, we should discuss the fact that white babies are very rare. and, therefore, the white population is diminishing.
as the hispanic segment increases exponentially...especially here in america.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 8 months ago
white babies are rare? hadn't heard that before.
well, it's all a matter of degree, I guess. I mean how white is white enough to be called white?
It reminds me of this thing I thought was brilliant on this show called 'Ed' last night,
This cop is looking for a terrorist suspect, and he has two colored sticks or swatches in his hand, one lighter than the other. He holds them up and frames passerbys, to see if they fall inbetween and are then qualified to be 'terror suspects .
So he tells a guy that barely passes the test, 'Hey buddy! You're on the bubble. Better stay out of the sun for awhile'
anyway, I think the white population may be diminishing because they may finally be seeing past color and gettin it on with more of the non-white or off-white people.
Be my guess, because I don't think whitey is f***in' less than usual
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texangelwings1 year, 8 months ago
One would think that all good politicians would verify the statistics that are found in their speeches, prior to giving the speech. With computer information these days, it would be fairly simple to achieve.
I enjoyed reading all the comments.
Thanks Quicksilver for the headsup on this article.
Thanks DR, interesting article.
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toravia1 year, 8 months ago
How about this radical idea? Semi-mandatory COMPLETE and accurate sex-ed in jr. high with free school nurse-supplied effective birth control for every single student. If a parent doesn't want this for their little "angels," they sign a release form agreeing that the resultant pregnancies will be dealt with and PAID FOR entirely by THEM. No welfare, no WIC, no free insurance for the little ones with 16-year-old parents, not a single additional food stamp! Those programs will be reserved for responsible citizens of lower incomes who have TRULY unintended pregnancies. If a woman has easy access to birth control pills, shots, and IUD's and doesn't use them, but DOES have sex, how is her pregnancy unintended? Probably a little TOO radical, huh?
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Hobe1 year, 8 months ago
'The Myth of Adoption vs. Abortion'
There they go again??? What don't the Republicans Understand about a Women's Choice to Kill her Baby???
It's The LAW, the Democrats proposed the Law, they have No problem with the Killing, they Voted for it and defend it to the Death!
Enough Already...
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bobric11101 year, 8 months ago
Go to all those foster care facilities and ask each child whether they would rather have been aborted, or born and be living in foster care. I'm guessing that is the only real question that need be asked to determine who is "right" on the abortion issue. Put yourself in their place, and imagine the worst of all circumstances for your mother - poverty, lack of education, even rape. Do you want her to terminate your pregnancy and snuff out your life??
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joeblowe1 year, 8 months ago
A Fetus doesn't have any reasoning ability. Which is why A) they aren't asked their opinion and B) Destroying one in the first trimester is not homocide. At that point, your CAT has more reasoning ability and is more like a human. If you want to talk about POTENTIALS, then you must absolutely pay to have every single person on earth tutored in every subject to make absolutely certain they all reach their POTENTIAL. Don't want to do that? Why not, same logic applies? Calling a fetus a baby is like calling an acorn an Oak tree. Sure, you can do it, but it doesn't make it true. And, quite frankly, I'll wager if you DID ask foster kids if they would prefer NOT to have been born, a rather high percentage would say "yes."
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