The Right-Wing Relativists »
Posted By Neophile 1 year, 7 months ago in NewsWhen you have lost your moral moorings to the extent that you no longer can say with any "clarity" that tying someone down and repeatedly forcing them to inhale water into their lungs until they almost drown is torture, then I would suggest that you are indeed a moral relativist in the most pejorative sense of the word.
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engineer1 year, 7 months ago
Saying their moral doesn't make it so. Remember the "Moral Majority" was neither!!!
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cowboygrandpa1 year, 7 months ago
engineer: There are three truths. My truth, your truth, and the real truth. Actually there are probably as many truths out there as there are people maybe double that amount. Because for some people the truth changes from party to party. LOL. Moral Majority, more like the immoral minority of ultra cons activists. There crap is all ove them now. Boy do they stink. Ha Ha HA HA.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
David keep it up. Your support of the policy of torture is un-American. Heck, the guy who wrote the torture memo for Dumya said at a Notre Dame debate that its OK to crunch the testicles of the son of a suspected terrorist to get him to talk. How atrocious! You unscruppled fool! How far away from the America we all used to believe in would you take us?
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nccneon1 year, 7 months ago
DavidHalko wrote: "Those who seek Jesus for direction are more moral than the alternative."
What a crock that is! How dare you!
You make me wish I believed in Karma.
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hamy1 year, 7 months ago
OR death and dismemberment of 1,000 Americans per year in this war at the hands of a greedy dictator.
Deaths are deaths.
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Jaydee401 year, 7 months ago
The Catholic church thought it was moral during the Inquisition too, history has shown otherwise. Moral is a funny word that is to easy to twist.
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cowboygrandpa1 year, 7 months ago
Grrr: I have another name for it. Plain and simple. Bull Sh*t!!!!!! That what it stinks like and thats what they have all around their mouths' when they speak it. They been so full of sh*t for so long it is emerging from their mouthes. Quick someone put a bib on them like you would a baby. OOOOPS to late they got it all over themselves. I'm not cleaning them up. Maybe a dip in the dunking pond. Oh wait would that be torture? Only if it is done to them. Neophile Thanks for the story and heads up.
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
They have prollally no more nor no less than the general public. But we Christian Conservatives has hit on an effective PR campaign, (a cheat) whereby we use our media domination to disseminate our message of moral superiourity.
Unfortunately, many Conservatives dint git the message.
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_S...
Be shure to check out Helen Chenowith.
See - we Christian Conservatives ken perform ANY perversion on Saturday. Cause we know we ken ask fer Gods forgiveness on SUNDAY!!
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Natureboy1 year, 7 months ago
Of course right wingers have morals. If you listened to them and watched them, you would see that their moral edifice is constructed on certain bedrock principles, such as
Might makes right.
Greed is good.
Devil take the hindmost.
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Charlson1 year, 7 months ago
The republicans have strayed so far from their basic principles that it's hard to tell a real republican from a neocon. Real republicans like real democrats are lovers of America and are the moral backbone of this country not the extreme right or left. It's when the extreme idiots gain control of our nation that it becomes time for the vast majority of American regardless of party affiliation to take back the government from the control of these megalomanics.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
...should have been obvious to any American in 2000 who listened to Gore, or 2004 who listened to Kerry when they heard Dumya quote these individuals the next day with a meaning 180 degrees from what was really said. Sensitive to the Terrorists? Differing to Paris from a need for a global (humanity) test? Etc... Dumya, the liar, like Romney saying we should bomb our ally Pakistan after Barak said we should bomb terrorists (after reliable intelligence) in Pakistan. The Republican Party, the party of deception and lies driven home by the likes of Faux Fox Facts (fox news)!
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RedstateLib1 year, 7 months ago
FTA: "These people are RADICALS. Radicals with dangerous, subversive ideas. Subversive to America. Subversive to our Constitution."
Stop calling them Conservatives they are "SUBVERSIVE RADICALS" and we should refer to them as such going forward. Conservative makes them sound nice and old fashioned that is not what they are.
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Neophile1 year, 7 months ago
Actually that was from the comments after the article, but it's a good point.
In Canada, we used to have a party called the Reform Party. It was essentially an overt neo-conservative party which aimed to do much of what the Bush admin. has successfully accomplished (aka setting the country back decades in a multitude of ways).
Of course, they weren't very successful in Canada... until they recently merged with the Conservative Party and became wolves in sheep's clothing. Now, sadly, they're making progress under the false banner of conservatism and true conservatives are left feeling alienated.
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nyogtha1 year, 7 months ago
Well said. TRUE conservatives are good people, as are TRUE liberals. They each have their bad points, but those are far outweighed by their good points. Both sides have their subversive radicals, and are really representative of neither side. War drum evangelicals give conservatives a bad name. Welfare nanny state lovers give liberals a bad name.
True conservatives are resistant to change, but will change when it is absolutely necessary. True liberals are very open to change, often for the sake of change itself. Where the two meet is often where the most good is done.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean covers how these people fit the same psychological profiles developed on the followers of Hitler and Mussolini after WWII.
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Beau78901 year, 7 months ago
Great article, Neo. Thanks. I love that quote Ron Suskind got from the Bush staffer.
About this quote from the article:
"I'm not sure if it's that we've become used to it or the administration has used less of it recently, but I don't find myself pounding my head on the desk as often I once did at some Bush official (or often the president himself) essentially saying "you can believe me or you can believe your lying eyes.' "
We've gotten used to a lot from this administration, but I think the reason they use this tactic of insisting that reality is incorrect less often now is that their points have already largely been absorbed by the public and the press. You can see it in the huge amount of misinformation continuing to be spouted in the media and in forums like this one, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
In marketing, we call it "buying the brand." Once your audience does this, facts are no longer necessary to support messages.
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Spadecaller1 year, 7 months ago
ON MORAL RELATIVISM:
Yes, there is a difference between rape and abduction; abduction usually lasts longer.
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lfergie8121 year, 7 months ago
I like the way these conservatives criticized Clinton about his questioning the definition of "is" but cannot agree with the definition of waterboarding.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
No, it's the democrats that are too weak and hypocritical to say it is out and out torture. They know it's an effective tool. That's why Mukasey is our new AG.
Waterboarding is NOT torture. Nobody is going to die from it and it WILL save lives. I call it win win. But of course your hatred of Bush blinds you to anything good from this administration.
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RedstateLib1 year, 7 months ago
That has my vote!!!!! Get rid of the extremist on boths sides and let the rest of us clean up the mess they have made.
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consareidiots1 year, 7 months ago
What do they mean by who's doing it?? Waterboarding by anyone is torture. What next? The ancient dripping water on the forehead procedure?
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Neophile1 year, 7 months ago
Maybe they should have included a video of a tractor pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hMPXLjrkc
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nccneon1 year, 7 months ago
If you're a normal Conservative, be glad most people by now recognize the difference between your value system and those of the Neocons (RADICALS).
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
I ken just see Goerge W. Bush - our borned again presdient - at the Pearly Gates.
Peter: "Why Goerge, it appears as though, not only were you a draft dodger who went on to send thousands of young men and women into a pre-emptive war, based on lies, you were incompetent in your performance! In addition, you acktually tried to shield yourself from culpability by accusin those who dint agree with you that they werent 'patriotic'!"
"Goerge, I gotta say - this is damnable!"
Goerge W.: "Well see, its liek this Pete, all that stuff that went on in the White House, that wuz all Dicks doins. Any part I played in all that - I prayed to you the day after I left office. So, liek my draft dodgin - I should - by rights - be in the clear. Know whut I mean?"
"Heh heh heh."
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MichaelRhodenteComment removed: User banned.1 Reply
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texangelwings1 year, 7 months ago
Gee, what is going on, where did my comment go that I posted a couple hours ago?
It seems that our government has lost its moral compass. Our leaders are chosing to ignore the majority of Americans.
Maybe our representatives need some hearing aides, since they seem to be ignoring the will of the people!
Thanks Neo, good article!
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gamahuche1 year, 7 months ago
There is a very simple way to prove that Waterboarding IS torture.
Let all those who disagree that it is be offered the possibility of proving it by agreeing to be waterboarded.
There will be a stipulation that when they have changed their minds they may make a signal with their big toe, which will NOT be strapped down.
Further discussion of this topic will be redundant.
Thanks for the story neo. I know there's a lot more in there than this subject but this idea has been cooking slowly for a while and I'm pleased to get it out!
P.S. I will not be volunteering as a subject or as an "operative". Quite content to remain the back-room ideas man on this one..
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MichaelRhodenteComment removed: User banned.8 Replies
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
That punk kid who got tasered last month (Don't tase me, bro!) was tortured that day.
Should we take the taser away from the police?
Waterboarding makes somebody THINK they are drowning but are in no danger of drowning and is a very effective tool. Just ask Khalid Sheik Mohammad who spilled the beans after 4 seconds.
It's why the senate WON'T resolve that it's torture and end the debate already! They'll just wring their hands and scream about the immorality of this administration when we all know it's the stupidity and pandering of the sorry left in this country.
If a terrorist was sitting in Gitmo right now that knew about a bomb that was going to go off in a mall where your mother was shopping and the bomb went off killing her, you'd sue the government for not doing enough to obtain that info.
"To make sure that the government never allows that to happen again".
Hypocrites all.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
Whoever gave me that negative vote: I just hit the send button. I KNOW you didn't have time to read that whole post!
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Jaydee401 year, 7 months ago
If you support this administration your no better than the Germans who supported Hitler, Sleep well knowing paybacks a bit*h.
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StarLord1 year, 7 months ago
Note the difference in situations.
#1: Punk being tasered.
This is a case of "necessary force", in order to apprehend a suspected felon. Given that the alternative is letting him go, using a minimum of force is necessary and justified. Even then, finding an alternative, either by chasing the brat or by out-thinking him, would be much better.
#2: Waterboarding.
This is a case of cruel and inhuman punishment. There is no necessity to abuse the prisoner in this fashion - it's hardly as if he's going to run away from Gitmo. Further, the Universal Declaration on Human Rights expressly prohibits torture, as do the Geneva Conventions. The latter of these is a legally-binding document. Therfore, anyone who violates it can wind up on the wrong end of a Nuremberg-style panel.
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canadianrancher571 year, 7 months ago
Waterboarding is only but one issue that is causing people to question the present direction or mentality of some of the ultra right, we have in the last few years seen the invasion of peoples lives by government with no regard to what the law states as right. These people give us the story that it is done for our protection,so it now seems that the state is more important than the individual, was this not the threat that we fought against during the cold war. That God Damned piece of paper that your president talked about was written to put the people before the state, now I truely understand why he made that statement. The people who support this line of thinking are the true enemies of your country.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
Canadianrancher57, I want to know how YOUR rights specifically were violated by this administration: GO!
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canadianrancher571 year, 7 months ago
Locky12- When ever you sneeze down there we catch a cold up here, if your government decides it is alright to wire tap people without a reason and gets the blessing of the court it soon follows in Canada. On another point I think that your government did detain some of our citizens as terrorist, and I think they are still holding some, but it is likely alright as long as it protects us from whatever.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
"I think they are still holding some, but it is likely alright as long as it protects us from whatever."
And that is the problem with this whole thread. "I think" this is happening! "Whatever" is what we are guarding ourselves against.
You don't have any clue or perceive the real threat but it's the ones who guard us are the ones who "might" be doing something wrong.
Do you now see why the left are a bunch of frustrated buffoons?
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david_nwpa1 year, 7 months ago
Bertolt Brecht once said, "Whoever says A is true, does not have to say B is also true. One must realize that A may not be true." Just because the right wing relativists tell Faux News that something is true, does not make it so. One would hope the Democrats would stand up to the President and remind him of this; sadly, to date, few of them have.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
Because they know the president is right and as much as they can't stand him, don't want to be wrong.
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canadianrancher571 year, 7 months ago
Locky12- Taking away the rights and freedoms of (your) people will never stop people from attacking your country this is a sad fact, but making people hate or be fearful of the government will make the situation worst. To me the statement "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" is a statement we have to agree with. To me the threat of danger is always present but that Idea is what gives the terrorist power. Maybe I am not clued into the danger that is out there but I do know we will all die someday and I would like to be able to live a free life untill that day.
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Locky121 year, 7 months ago
Freedom is not free.
The cost is vigilance.
It is no accident that we haven't been hit since 9/11/01.
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canadianrancher571 year, 7 months ago
To every problem there is a simple answer, I don't think that the world developed its dislike to the American system under only this government. The foreign policy of previous Americam governments have upset many in the world and your enemies seem to be many. would it not seem easier to change your policies toward the world than punish the American people. My grandfather once told me if you poke a dog with a stick long enough it will finally bite you, this applies to people as well, and this has been American policy for quite awile.
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BravoSierra1 year, 7 months ago
Water boarding was used in the Catholic/Spanish Inquisition.
We convicted Japanese Officers of war crimes for water boarding in WWII.
This question has been asked and answered by what Tom Brokaw called The Greatest Generation.
It is disgusting that a nation that has so many people wanting to call themselves a 'Christian' nation are even willing to debate this. According to our own precedence set in WWII, Bush is a war criminal as are all those who have allowed, done or condoned water boarding.
They are naturally going to say that it is not torture. The minute they accept that it is, they become war criminals just like Milosovic, Pinochet and all the other modern tyrants who slipped over the line and became war criminals.
Naturally, the President is going to say we, meaning he, is committing no crime.
But by our own laws...our own judgements during WWII...he is a war criminal.
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