This story is archived
The Right-Wing Relativists »
Posted by: Neophile 2 years agoWhen you have lost your moral moorings to the extent that you no longer can say with any "clarity" that tying someone down and repeatedly forcing them to inhale water into their lungs until they almost drown is torture, then I would suggest that you are indeed a moral relativist in the most pejorative sense of the word.
Read Full Story at commonsense.ourfuture.org »
Submitted By:
Neophile
I'm a Propeller Scout so if you have any questions or concerns, send me a message and I'll be happy to help.
This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed
Comments: 459
-
engineer
Nov. 9, 2007, 3:05 p.m.Saying their moral doesn't make it so. Remember the "Moral Majority" was neither!!!
-
Jaydee40
Nov. 9, 2007, 3:14 p.m.The Catholic church thought it was moral during the Inquisition too, history has shown otherwise. Moral is a funny word that is to easy to twist.
-
Grrr
Nov. 9, 2007, 3:16 p.m.It's called "double-speak". See George Orwell's "1984" for it's origins.
-
-
Charlson
Nov. 9, 2007, 3:28 p.m.The republicans have strayed so far from their basic principles that it's hard to tell a real republican from a neocon. Real republicans like real democrats are lovers of America and are the moral backbone of this country not the extreme right or left. It's when the extreme idiots gain control of our nation that it becomes time for the vast majority of American regardless of party affiliation to take back the government from the control of these megalomanics.
-
-
not2needy
Nov. 9, 2007, 3:49 p.m.Barbaric, sadistical, and evil. It's the only way to describe them!
-
RedstateLib
Nov. 9, 2007, 4:17 p.m.FTA: "These people are RADICALS. Radicals with dangerous, subversive ideas. Subversive to America. Subversive to our Constitution."
Stop calling them Conservatives they are "SUBVERSIVE RADICALS" and we should refer to them as such going forward. Conservative makes them sound nice and old fashioned that is not what they are.
-
Beau7890
Nov. 9, 2007, 5:13 p.m.Great article, Neo. Thanks. I love that quote Ron Suskind got from the Bush staffer.
About this quote from the article:
"I'm not sure if it's that we've become used to it or the administration has used less of it recently, but I don't find myself pounding my head on the desk as often I once did at some Bush official (or often the president himself) essentially saying "you can believe me or you can believe your lying eyes.' "
We've gotten used to a lot from this administration, but I think the reason they use this tactic of insisting that reality is incorrect less often now is that their points have already largely been absorbed by the public and the press. You can see it in the huge amount of misinformation continuing to be spouted in the media and in forums like this one, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
In marketing, we call it "buying the brand." Once your audience does this, facts are no longer necessary to support messages.
-
Spadecaller
Nov. 9, 2007, 5:35 p.m.ON MORAL RELATIVISM:
Yes, there is a difference between rape and abduction; abduction usually lasts longer.
-
lfergie812
Nov. 9, 2007, 5:41 p.m.I like the way these conservatives criticized Clinton about his questioning the definition of "is" but cannot agree with the definition of waterboarding.
-
jordan11
Nov. 9, 2007, 5:59 p.m.Watching both political party's, there appears to be wide split among republicans, and a growing one among democrats. Perhaps people need to split these party's, and emerge with the best of both.
-
consareidiots
Nov. 9, 2007, 6:21 p.m.What do they mean by who's doing it?? Waterboarding by anyone is torture. What next? The ancient dripping water on the forehead procedure?
-
eugenegerard
Nov. 9, 2007, 6:28 p.m.The problem with this story is it uses a lot of big words. The goons that enjoy torture may not understand moral relativism. Let's just say drowning someone is always wrong.
-
annoDomini
Nov. 9, 2007, 6:29 p.m.It is truly shameful that anyone can argue that waterboarding is acceptable to do another person under any circumstances.
It's hard to admit to being a conservative in such times.
-
Goppy
Nov. 9, 2007, 6:36 p.m.I ken just see Goerge W. Bush - our borned again presdient - at the Pearly Gates.
Peter: "Why Goerge, it appears as though, not only were you a draft dodger who went on to send thousands of young men and women into a pre-emptive war, based on lies, you were incompetent in your performance! In addition, you acktually tried to shield yourself from culpability by accusin those who dint agree with you that they werent 'patriotic'!"
"Goerge, I gotta say - this is damnable!"
Goerge W.: "Well see, its liek this Pete, all that stuff that went on in the White House, that wuz all Dicks doins. Any part I played in all that - I prayed to you the day after I left office. So, liek my draft dodgin - I should - by rights - be in the clear. Know whut I mean?"
"Heh heh heh."
-
texangelwings
Nov. 9, 2007, 8:07 p.m.Gee, what is going on, where did my comment go that I posted a couple hours ago?
It seems that our government has lost its moral compass. Our leaders are chosing to ignore the majority of Americans.
Maybe our representatives need some hearing aides, since they seem to be ignoring the will of the people!
Thanks Neo, good article!
-
gamahuche
Nov. 9, 2007, 8:15 p.m.There is a very simple way to prove that Waterboarding IS torture.
Let all those who disagree that it is be offered the possibility of proving it by agreeing to be waterboarded.
There will be a stipulation that when they have changed their minds they may make a signal with their big toe, which will NOT be strapped down.
Further discussion of this topic will be redundant.
Thanks for the story neo. I know there's a lot more in there than this subject but this idea has been cooking slowly for a while and I'm pleased to get it out!
P.S. I will not be volunteering as a subject or as an "operative". Quite content to remain the back-room ideas man on this one..
-
Locky12
Nov. 9, 2007, 8:57 p.m.That punk kid who got tasered last month (Don't tase me, bro!) was tortured that day.
Should we take the taser away from the police?
Waterboarding makes somebody THINK they are drowning but are in no danger of drowning and is a very effective tool. Just ask Khalid Sheik Mohammad who spilled the beans after 4 seconds.
It's why the senate WON'T resolve that it's torture and end the debate already! They'll just wring their hands and scream about the immorality of this administration when we all know it's the stupidity and pandering of the sorry left in this country.
If a terrorist was sitting in Gitmo right now that knew about a bomb that was going to go off in a mall where your mother was shopping and the bomb went off killing her, you'd sue the government for not doing enough to obtain that info.
"To make sure that the government never allows that to happen again".
Hypocrites all.
-
canadianrancher57
Nov. 9, 2007, 8:59 p.m.Waterboarding is only but one issue that is causing people to question the present direction or mentality of some of the ultra right, we have in the last few years seen the invasion of peoples lives by government with no regard to what the law states as right. These people give us the story that it is done for our protection,so it now seems that the state is more important than the individual, was this not the threat that we fought against during the cold war. That God Damned piece of paper that your president talked about was written to put the people before the state, now I truely understand why he made that statement. The people who support this line of thinking are the true enemies of your country.
-
canadianrancher57
Nov. 9, 2007, 9:14 p.m.Locky12- When ever you sneeze down there we catch a cold up here, if your government decides it is alright to wire tap people without a reason and gets the blessing of the court it soon follows in Canada. On another point I think that your government did detain some of our citizens as terrorist, and I think they are still holding some, but it is likely alright as long as it protects us from whatever.
-
david_nwpa
Nov. 9, 2007, 9:25 p.m.Bertolt Brecht once said, "Whoever says A is true, does not have to say B is also true. One must realize that A may not be true." Just because the right wing relativists tell Faux News that something is true, does not make it so. One would hope the Democrats would stand up to the President and remind him of this; sadly, to date, few of them have.
-
canadianrancher57
Nov. 9, 2007, 9:37 p.m.Locky12- Taking away the rights and freedoms of (your) people will never stop people from attacking your country this is a sad fact, but making people hate or be fearful of the government will make the situation worst. To me the statement "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" is a statement we have to agree with. To me the threat of danger is always present but that Idea is what gives the terrorist power. Maybe I am not clued into the danger that is out there but I do know we will all die someday and I would like to be able to live a free life untill that day.
-
canadianrancher57
Nov. 9, 2007, 9:49 p.m.To every problem there is a simple answer, I don't think that the world developed its dislike to the American system under only this government. The foreign policy of previous Americam governments have upset many in the world and your enemies seem to be many. would it not seem easier to change your policies toward the world than punish the American people. My grandfather once told me if you poke a dog with a stick long enough it will finally bite you, this applies to people as well, and this has been American policy for quite awile.
-
BravoSierra
Nov. 9, 2007, 11:06 p.m.Water boarding was used in the Catholic/Spanish Inquisition.
We convicted Japanese Officers of war crimes for water boarding in WWII.
This question has been asked and answered by what Tom Brokaw called The Greatest Generation.
It is disgusting that a nation that has so many people wanting to call themselves a 'Christian' nation are even willing to debate this. According to our own precedence set in WWII, Bush is a war criminal as are all those who have allowed, done or condoned water boarding.
They are naturally going to say that it is not torture. The minute they accept that it is, they become war criminals just like Milosovic, Pinochet and all the other modern tyrants who slipped over the line and became war criminals.
Naturally, the President is going to say we, meaning he, is committing no crime.
But by our own laws...our own judgements during WWII...he is a war criminal.
The first 404 comments are shown. Show all 459 comments »
Submit a Story
Advertisement
