This story is archived
Judgement Day: Intelligent Design On Trial »
Posted by: RickyDawkins 2 years, 1 month agoEvolution is the central organizing principle of all biological science, yet teaching evolution has become controversial in many states. Tonight, NOVA presents the arguments by lawyers and expert witnesses in riveting detail and provides eye-opening answers to questions such as: "Is intelligent design a scientifically valid alternative?"
Read Full Story at scienceblogs.com »
Submitted By:
RickyDawkins
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of ...
This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed
Comments: 438
-
RickyDawkins
Nov. 13, 2007, 4:52 p.m.In 2004, the Dover school board ordered science teachers to read a statement to high school biology students suggesting that there is an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution called intelligent design--the idea that life is too complex to have evolved naturally and therefore must have been designed by an intelligent agent. The teachers refused to comply.
"There was a blow-up like you couldn't believe," Bill Buckingham, head of the school board's curriculum committee, tells NOVA. Buckingham helped formulate the intelligent-design policy when he noticed that the biology textbook chosen by teachers for classroom use was, in his words, "laced with Darwinism."
During the trial, lawyers for the plaintiffs showed that evolution is one of the best-tested and most thoroughly confirmed theories in the history of science, and that its unresolved questions are normal research problems - the type that arise in any scientific field.
-
jovial
Nov. 13, 2007, 5:03 p.m.Let's throw out years of scientific theories and work to all of a sudden believe that faith in a supreme being is all one needs to know. Since this deity is infallible, no teachings can run counter to his law.
-
AtheismIsRealityComment has been removed: Retracted by user
-
smithichie
Nov. 13, 2007, 5:07 p.m.Here is a link to PBS where local listings for this NOVA episode, which first airs tonight, can be found.
-
Grrr
Nov. 13, 2007, 5:41 p.m.Now we're on to one of my pet peeves here, which is the confusion of good old 'intelligent design' with 'creationism'. NOT THE SAME. The Christians f*cked up a perfectly good debate about the possible extraterrestrial origins of life and how 'engineered' dna seems to be by using it to try and force God into science, instead of settling for a scientifically acceptable bunch of aliens. Bastards. I got tossed from a genetics lab once because they thought I was a Christian. I didn't get it at the time: "But all I said was 'this looks kind of engineered to me'!!" No kidding. It does, too.
-
flyonthewallzz
Nov. 13, 2007, 5:51 p.m.Hello Ricky
I have spent a lot of time thinking of your words.
It may well be that I have been falsely defining your thoughts.
I have been taking a stand here that surprises me.
Of course evolution should be taught in school.
And of course intelligent design is not a scientifically valid alternative.
Are we more than lumps of meat?
Has industrialization had an effect on the human family?
Have our dishwashers, washing machines, reduced the perceived value of Mothers?
How many families survive on one income?
For whatever reason is it not a good thing for a family to gather with others?
The type of ritual chosen is not of importance.
Different faiths seem to make a symbolic sacrifice in order to give thanks.
Some will not eat pork, some will intrepid the Bible literally, some will not bear arms.
It is a human weakness to pass judgement.
Are we evolving away from being social animals?
-
DarkWizard
Nov. 13, 2007, 5:54 p.m.Good post Ricky.
I think that evolution elicits denial in many religious folks. As far as they're concerned evolution and religious beliefs cannot and will not coexist. There are always exceptions of course, but subscribing to the fact that evolution has enough evidence to be acceptable is an affront to creation and the stories that go with it...to the creationists.
I, for one, have seen and experienced too many things in my life to believe that there isn't something out there beyond our comprehension. Science can explain that which can be recognized by one or more of our senses and studied, but has no expertise in that which can be recognized by one or more of our senses and not studied.
As far as education is concerned, educators are in the business of teaching what is known and not that which is unknown. ID and creation theories have little credence to the facts of science...no matter how imperfect they may be.
-
hdthehn
Nov. 13, 2007, 6:10 p.m.1500 years ago the church taught us that the Sun revolved around the Earth?
500 years ago the church taught us that the Earth was flat?
What is the church going to teach us today/tomorrow?
Answer: Another superstitution.
-
gamahuche
Nov. 13, 2007, 7:11 p.m.superstitution: an institutionalised superstition or a super substitution?
We should get Goppy to work on this.
Fly: I also liked: intrepid the Bible literally..
For some reason it conjured up from my [aborted] education at a Religious, Royal and Ancient Foundation a hymn which included "avowed intent to be a pilgrim".
Don't ask me why! Maybe 'cos its 1 a.m. and if I write any more nonsense I'll wake up embarrassed in the morning.
Goodnight all!
-
Radiofreeeuropa
Nov. 13, 2007, 7:49 p.m.Evolution is no more atheistic than biochemistry, farming, engineering, plumbing, art, law, and so forth. Many, perhaps most, evolutionists are not atheists. The ludicrous interpretation of the Bible tauted by Bishop Ussher was cited at the original Scopes trial and is still believed by biblethumping nitwits is at odds with evolution and every other logic oriented thought ever devised.
-
pismo
Nov. 13, 2007, 8:24 p.m."Is intelligent design a scientifically valid alternative?"
The answer is no!
-
pismo
Nov. 13, 2007, 8:27 p.m."parents opposed to intelligent design filed a lawsuit in federal court accusing the school board of violating the constitutional separation of church and state."
Good. I hope they win.
-
lvrofwolves
Nov. 13, 2007, 10:08 p.m.They did win!!!
what killed me the most I think is that after the judge gave his ruling, that ID was not to be taught in school..he recieved death threats! yah that's right, death threats from so called Christians. Oh and also that 2 of the main defendants in the case of the Dover school, outright LIED under oath, when purgery charges were brought up as a possibility, they said they 'misspoke', if you saw the NOVA program, you know that's another blatent lie by these 2 'Christians'
-
Mutainia
Nov. 13, 2007, 9:46 p.m.I wonder if they will bring into evidence such things as bat wings, pteranadon, and, Venus Fly-traps when it comes to trying to support Creationism.
-
flyonthewallzz
Nov. 13, 2007, 9:48 p.m.When I was in High School I received a "D" in geometry.
The Geometry teacher was also the wood shop teacher.
I am typing these words at my work bench in my wood shop.
The computer I am using drives the numeric controllers, that drives some of the machines.
I made the mistake of questioning PI!
In addition to my homework I carefully measured the diameter of some objects and then there circumference buy wrapping a piece of paper around them. I rounded my results to the nearest 1/128 of an inch (I had good eyes then).
My efforts where not appreciated.
Alright I got stubborn when I found a discrepancy in the results, I modeled the problem and measured it instead of using Euclidian stuff they where trying to teach me.
My results did not look the same as the text book said they should.
-
-
Gwanpaw
Nov. 13, 2007, 10:53 p.m.Intelligent design is interesting way to note some of the gee whiz aspects of nature. I'm looking forward to the day when man designs intelligence... A supercomputer with smarts. Yea, yea, garbage in, garbage out but, soon we will have a computer that can search for, find, extrapolate facts on it's own and have unquestionable logic; then the world can hold it's breath when the age-old question is put to it: "Is there a god". I suppose we will then call it "intelligent design" when we decide to ignore the answer.
-
aceofspades1
Nov. 14, 2007, 12:14 a.m.Can't wait for the day the fundies get into Atomic Theory - oh yeah they have - "Nuke Em All" is their byword
-
-
tryingtofindmyway
Nov. 14, 2007, 1:31 a.m.Regardless of where a person lies on the debate of evolution vs. creationism, there are still aspects of the universe and existence itself that science will NEVER be able to explain. The origin of matter and existence itself has absolutely no scientific explanation. At some point in time, something had to come out of nothing, which we all know is scientifically "impossible." Even if you have enough faith to believe in the possibility of a big bang creating the universe, you still can't explain where the materials of the big bang came from. So as a matter of fact, mere existence is illogical and unscientific. It's incredibly mind boggling to consider the ramifications of existence. If it's impossible for something to come out of nothing...then something must have always been...and that something could not itself have been created. I defy any scientist, nobel prize winner, inventor, or philosopher in the world to find a way around that!
-
hyartep
Nov. 14, 2007, 4:26 a.m.I demand to teach the creation according to Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ( http://www.venganza.org/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_M... ) as well!
-
ccm989
Nov. 14, 2007, 8:32 a.m.Belief in God is a very nice thing. It is every American's right to worship as they please in their own church/temple/mosque. However, the First Amendment guarantees that Church and State be forevermore seperate. So if you insist on teaching your children about creationalism, do so at home or at your church but don't expect to teach it at a public school funded by the American taxpayer. Cause that's against the law.
-
joeblowe
Nov. 14, 2007, 10:29 a.m."Belief in God is a very nice thing." - I disagree. It's a TERRIBLE thing. It allows - rather INSISTS - that people give up thinking, responsibility, and common sense. Really - how is it GOOD for everything to be the fault/responsibility of an invisible friend. According to most religions, God is in charge of EVERYTHING. This pretty much absolves us lowly humans of everything. Which seems like a pretty good explanation why soooo many criminals "get religion" in prison. It means that THEY aren't personally responsible for their crimes - and better yet: they have been FORGIVEN for their crimes. I mean come on! If GOD will forgive them, surely the parole board will ..... RIGHT?
-
icelander
Nov. 14, 2007, 9:11 a.m.It must have been atheists who issued the death threats because Christians love everyone, right?
-
lvrofwolves
Nov. 14, 2007, 9:56 a.m.sniper91- why only one intelligent force? and why only the 'God' of the bible? If Adam was created fully formed in Gods image, whose image was Eve created in? and why so many flaws, not only in humans but plants and other animals as well.
P.S many don't believe in Satan either!
-
djn3nunez3
Nov. 14, 2007, 11 a.m.--P.S. even satan believes in God!
Actually Satan is just another supernatural creature (one of many) that Christians believe exist.
What I don't understand about Christians is how they can believe in both God and Satan (and all the angels and demoms) and still claim they are monotheistic?????
-
DeadXXXManXXXTalkin
Nov. 14, 2007, 12:09 p.m.to them there are 'divine beings', but there is only one 'God', who is the chief Grand Poobah of the lot.
your final question is better applied to the Trinity, the Tri-une[sp?] God of the Catholics etc., Father, Son, Holy Ghost, which is repeated in many religions{hinduism, for example]
This is solved by a simple 'have your cake and eat it too' reply of, yes they are Three but also One.
In certain 'christian' doctrines this applies to only the three manifestations of God[angels-including Satan-are not members of the Gold Club] but to the Hindus I think it applies to all
-
hamy
Nov. 14, 2007, 11:39 a.m.Believe what you want. That is fine. But my taxes shouldn't have to pay to teach lies to all of the children in my community.
-
smithichie
Nov. 14, 2007, 3:32 p.m.snipe91
"Big bang and it all just fell into place eh?"
Yeah, but you left out that the big bang and the formation of the Earth are separated by over 9 Billion years, that a long time for 'just'.
PS. Why would satan believe in god? Doesn't satan KNOW god exists? I don't believe in things I KNOW exist.
PPS. Even Lex Luther believes in Superman. Do you consider that statement to be evidence of superman's existence?
-
lvrofwolves
Nov. 14, 2007, 10:18 a.m.And I'm personally totally fine with what others believe, as long as it's not forced on anyone to make them conform to anothers belief, to 'rule' over them and it doesn't include violence against others.
Most have many questions that will never be answered, you're right, nobody has all the answers, but some do have some facts and sometimes they prove other things to be false. Just as it was proven the Earth isn't flat.
Scientific facts trump beliefs, tho if there weren't beliefs in the first place, I guess there would be no need for science.
-
icelander
Nov. 14, 2007, 11:03 a.m.So should we teach our kids whatever anybody chooses to believe in?
The first 309 comments are shown. Show all 438 comments »
Submit a Story
Advertisement
