Petraeus's plan worked in Iraq »
Posted By bobo-in-texas 1 year, 7 months ago in NewsWe are winning in Iraq. Will someone please inform the Democrats?
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
Bobo, you are so good at submitting articles with bias and incomplete facts! All the dems defeatist (?); hardly, but they do all want to get the real perpetrator of 911. And, where are the accompanying political accomplishments?
Why do you ignore all the generals and Dumya who have said only a political solution will solve Iraq now. Let's see, the Turks continuing to invade a near autonomous Northern Iraq, and Iran money is worth more and used more in Southern Iraq then ever before. Where is the oil deal and the compromises in the Iraqi government?
I'm glad our soldiers have after almost 5 years been able to do something without Dumya/Rummy interference, but it is nothing without the political effort from this president who has shown only failures in his foriegn policy!
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
Well Bobo, lets have a look at what our troops on the ground think of your pentagon psy-ops propaganda. Seems you like militaristic totalitarianism.
Military.Com
Sleight of Hand Surge
To beg from a favorite expression of my grandmother's, I don't know whether to laugh or cry over the latest "good news" from Iraq. As we begin the twelve-month countdown to next November's election, friends of the Bush administration are once again declaring "mission accomplished" in Iraq.
... All this right wing hoopla conveniently ignores the Baby Ruth floating in the punch bowl: 2007, the year of the surge, has seen the largest annual toll of U.S. troop deaths (854) in the history of this woebegone war, and we have the rest of November and December left to go....
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OnionHeadComment removed: User banned.
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
LOL. Neocons are just like excited sheep who don't realize the only reason they can suddenly jump higher is because Farmer George keeps lowering the fence. We're "winning" because Chimper & his wargasm buddies are getting more and more creative when it comes to the definition of "success." I SO love how wingnuts are running around and diddling themselves silly even though the violence level is still at way the hell higher a level than it was before we illegally invaded Iraq to "liberate" it's people.
What's going on with the government? How's that going? What about Syria and Iran? What about the 5 million refugees that have flooded neighboring regions? How are they doing? Are they "winning"? Let's hope the parents of those 10 million American kids without health insurance are as excited as you are about us "winning" come Nov of '08, huh?
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 7 months ago
Yipee we're winning..Bagdad Bob said the same thing!!
Can we go home now??
Wasn't CAPTURING and CONTAINING AlQuada IN IRAQ the plan, so they wouldn't threaten America??
NOW we're winning because they are "FLEEING"??????
Hey nit wits..We allegedly planned to draw them into Iraq, and now we're bragging that they are going back to where they were in 2002???
reread for content.. there are serious flaws with this claim!
SERIOUS!!
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mrgrackle1 year, 7 months ago
So yeah... it may pain you to read non-US sources but...
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C488ADA5...
Yup, winning....
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afoaf1 year, 7 months ago
I had a faint inclination when I read your ad hominem attacks on Goppy, but since you've decided to show your true colors by *arguing* your point by threatening homicide with homosexual overtones on Michael Moore it's now perfectly clear that you're one of THOSE people.
I think this is the site you wanted:
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DanJ221 year, 7 months ago
This story has nonew substitence in it. Its alljust the same stuff people parade on the news. The war has failed not because of AQ, but because insurgency period. They are still there. AQ is still in Iraq. They are a patient, malicious sect, who recruit in droves.
It isnt our military that even needs to win this "War". It is the Iraqi people who need to stand up. Democracy wont take in three, four, five, or even ten years in the middle east. It is a slow process that the local inhabitents must want, and be willing to fight for. So far, I see little of that in middle eastern countries.
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Raiderwall1 year, 7 months ago
Once again, the conservatives declare victory in Iraq. At least this time they didn't land on an aircraft carrier, but the celebration is again premature.
We will have won in Iraq when their oil revenues are used to rebuild their country, instead of U.S. tax money. We will have won in Iraq when their soldiers and police are patrolling their streets instead of U.S. servicemen.
What about Iran's influence in the region? It's grown under Bush.
The surge is working, Of course, it's working. Anytime US military is in the field it'll carry the day.
Iraq is not the shining beacon of democracy Bush promised, nor for that matter is Afghanistan, and Bin Laden and Al Qeada are still out there, plotting.
Bush is a pathetic commander-in-chief.
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Shankari25Comment removed: User banned.
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DarkWizard1 year, 7 months ago
FTA:
"Bush changed course. Democrats have not. They have squandered their first year in control of Congress by voting 63 times on the war in Iraq - a war that was authorized by a Democratic Senate in 2002."
The problem with the statement from the article is:
"The 2002 United States Senate election featured a series of fiercely-contested elections that resulted in a victory for the Republican Party, which gained two seats and thus a narrow majority from the Democratic Party in the United States Senate."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Sena...
Cont'd
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jdhatl1 year, 7 months ago
Just because Baghdad violence has cooled does not mean that we have won or lost or anything. This is just the latest chapter in a very ***ked up story we threw at them not for their own good or even for the oil but just to make our military war machine feel important again. Someone tell the neo-nuts: the war is not over, violence continues. And Baghdad is just a city, not the whole country. But then again, why bother? these lunatics take issue with basic facts like the difference between a city and a country because they get in the way of the smooth functioning of their psychotic logic communications.
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baddad59Comment removed: User banned.
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
Heh heh heh!
Good one AB !
Bobo leaves out whole sections of a story - and we Christian Cosnervatives laugh at a member for bringing pluggin some of Bobos leaky story with facts!!
You know - you and Bobo woulda been GREAT apparatchiks in the Old Soviet Union!
They used to put poeple in Insane Asylums who refused to accept half truths and innuendo as Soviet Reality.
But then, when you have a craaaazy Ideologie liek Communism or Neo-Conism, they ONLY thing that can sustain it is half truths and innuendo.
Cause poeple are BORN with a natural understandin of Truth and Logic. Its goin to take MILLIONS of Bobos to undo THAT in humanity.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
At the time Harry said it the military success of the surge was very much in doubt as we were in the middle of the year that we have lost the most soldiers in Iraq. And with Dumya's previous four years of failures and mismanagement, what would a sane person expect?
Why do you right wingers always use outdated info to make invalid present day assessments? What facts you won't distort or preclude use of to satisfy your unscrupulous ways!
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
Is "White Flag Harry" lying about the failure of the Iraqi government to meet its benchmarks? Wasn't it Bushco appointees who acknowledged that wasn't working out so well? Just checking to see what alternate reality you're living in...
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
Petraus plan may be working, but Dumya's politcal support to the plan is still a dismal failure and should be a part of his story.
But, when Reagan vetoed the Truth in Telecommunications Act he was telling us something. Recently, the current repugs in the Congress rejected an update of the Fairness Doctrine; all so the Repugs can publish incomplete, one-sided articles like this one!
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gamahuche1 year, 7 months ago
The human cost of this misadventure based on false premises will continue to affect the US negatively for decades.
You may think there's something to crow about BoBo but there are plenty of families out there who have lost sons and daughters who will never feel that it was worth it so that Cheney and his chums could stash their billions of profits in some tax-haven future home.
There's no way that this war will ever be seen as a moral or a justified war by the rest of the wirld.
The US' moral reputation worldwide is in tatters, the dollar a basket-case with unpayable debts to Communist China, the nation more hostilely divided than its been in my lifetime.
I'd be interested to see a poll right now - in this time that you consider to be good-news day - of how many people believe that this war on Iraq has been worth it. But probably we'll have to wait till next year's election results come in.
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bobo-in-texas1 year, 7 months ago
The new talking point. Previously it was "the war is lost, run away now". Now it's, "even if we prevail, it wasn't worth it, run away now". I wonder what the next one will be?
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jimdoze1 year, 7 months ago
The human costs of not going in would have dwarfed WWII. When the Iranians figured Saddam's WMD bluff, they would have moved on the southern oil fields. As Iraq fell apart, the Kurds would have gone for independence. The Turks would have countered, since they will never allow an independent Kurdistan... and they would have tried to take the long coveted northern oil fields that had been theirs a century ago. The U.S. would have been faced with a fractured NATO, a Persian threat to the remaining Arab oil... and probable war-inducing disruptions of oil throughout. At what point would any of you have put boots on the ground there? The question was never "if", it was always "when".
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
WOW!
Thats fantastic hyperbole there dozey! Quite a 'End of Times' scenario youve created there!!
Funny how Goerge W. Bush was the ONLY administration concerned about Saddam! And they had to INVENT (LIE about) the WMD scenario to even get minimal support.
Could it be that Goerge W. Bush - indebted to the oil industry for literally ALL his career, income, and political aspirations - went into Iraq to keep Saddam Hussein from cutting out US oil Companies from contracts - and turnin them over to the Russians? Just as the Iraq oil fields were set to be exploited in a major way?
You know - sometimes the SIMPLEST explanation is the ACTUAL explanation.
Although - I DO commend you for the masterful way you kept YOUR astonishingly complex plan together.
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anioklyComment removed: User banned.49 Replies
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Daylight1 year, 7 months ago
Whatever the out come in Iraq the Muslims know the Zionist America's true ugly face of Crusade against Islam under the pretext of Democracy and freedom. I hope Americans have learned a lesson in Iraq that they will never try again to steal oil or interfere in the affair of Muslims. Now the problem has shifted to Pakistan, this is one of the Bush administration's achievements. The Americans must be mentally ill to accept the FOX Media reports as true. But in Afghanistan the problem is the same, and we don't hear any improvement there. The Americans must realize that the Bush administration is one of the worst criminal regimes in the history of mankind, and it is also should take responsibility for the Dollar's weakness against other currencies.
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nikkibabe1 year, 7 months ago
1 million Iraqi civilians dead, half the country bombed and destroyed, over 2 million Iraqi civilians displaced from their homes, 4 million have fled as refugees to Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iran. Most of the country has no running water, continuous power.
WHO IS THE WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Beau78901 year, 7 months ago
1968: "We had to destroy the village to save it."
2007: "We had to destroy the country to save it."
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
The winner(s): Dumya's buddies who got all those sole source, no audit contracts! And big business that wrote the laws for the repug Congress to throw out all the anti-monopoly laws instituted in this country after the Great Depression! Good job Brownie!
How many times have you seen the Chevron and BP commercials that say how they now own so many other energy means? How many times have you seen the commercials to leave the Prescription Drug Bill alone - the one that mandates no negotiation for lower drug costs by our seniors?
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Beau78901 year, 7 months ago
Let's assume the article's premise is correct. We're "winning" in Iraq.
Winning what, exactly? Beating down rebellion temporarily?
The article says, "All that is left is establishing a democracy, which is out of the hands of our soldiers."
Is THAT all? I'm sure that's not hard. Why don't we leave? After all, a democracy is a government of the people, by the people. In this case, the people of Iraq--nothing we can do to help that, right?
Win, lose, who cares what you call it? The consequences are the same. Even the author seems to think our soldiers have done all they can do. So it must be time to leave, right?
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HannibalBarca1 year, 7 months ago
But what about the oil? I read somewhere that shrub is angry at God for putting all that Western oil under ME sand.
Gog has a weird sense of humour if this is true
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
Lets face it. Whatever "progress" the bushie zioncons can claim in iraq recently is based on "buying" local mercenaries. Clearly the bushie zioncons are making a still bigger powder keg out of iraq - but maybe the bushies can cut and run declaring victory before the explosion they are preparing comes.
The GOP is desperate for "good news" (at whatever cost to Iraqis) prior to the elections.
American-backed killer militias strut across Iraq
...Exotically named groups such as the Knights of Ameriya and the Guardians of Ghazaliya strut the streets in camouflage uniforms, brandishing new AK47s that the Americans say they have not supplied.
Last week I entered the western Baghdad district of Ameriya by crossing check-points manned by the eager "knights". Not only had some of them been members of groups aligned with Al-Qaeda eight weeks ago, but they had now created a virtual enclave surrounded by concrete blast walls.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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...One pointed out former members of the Islamic Army â;; a group once closely associated with Al-Qaeda, whose atrocities included the murder of Enzo Baldoni, a kidnapped Italian journalist â;; among the knights.
In an Ameriya school last week some of the knights showed that although they may have switched allegiances, they still hold the fundamentalist beliefs that drew them to Al-Qaeda in the first place.
Carrying their weapons, they went from one class to the next, looking for mobile phones with "unIslamic" ringtones. One child with a pop music ringtone was slapped and kicked in the legs as a warning to the others.
Meanwhile, the targets of ethnic cleansing continue to suffer....
http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/ar...
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william-sire1 year, 7 months ago
Have you noticed the staggering lack of news about Iraq lately. Perhaps it is because the dominant liberal doesn't want t report good news.
From: donald51
"Bobo, you are so good at submitting articles with bias and incomplete facts! All the dems defeatist (?); hardly, but they do all want to get the real perpetrator of 911."
How long will it take before the anti-Bush crowd realizes Osama Bin Laden and Lex Luthor are not one and the same? Osama Bin Laden was never a master mined evil doer with a fantastic plot to take over the world. He is a part of a greater evil that has to be abolished before more like him are successful from it.
Unlike stopping Lex Luthor the capture of Osama Bin Laden will not stop the evil that he is doing. We are fighting the evil of terrorism as he should.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 7 months ago
You are fighting phantoms, you have been presented with a scape goat so under the guise of being noble and just you are trying to rip off a countries wealth for yourself and you have bought into the story hook line and sinker.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
What you mean is that th4e same censored US corporate media is now hoping you won't notice the continuing mayhem in Iraq.
Saturday: 32 Iraqis Killed, 40 Wounded
At least 32 Iraqis were killed and 40 more were wounded in the latest attacks. The fallout from yesterday's bombings in Baghdad and Mosul conitinues as well...
http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=11956
Iraq nullifies Kurdish oil deals
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071124/wl_mideast...
They are also hoping that you won't notice that the bushie zioncon war in iraq for oil and israel has failed in the important goals.
Bin Laden talks of victory, not defeat
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IK22Ak...
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
Gee Wiz Sirey, I see this story is ALL OVER the mainstream news!
Maybe you are simply promotin our favorite Right Wing Lie - the Libural Media Lie.
Or MAYBE you dont even WATCH mainstream media.
Maybe you ONLY watch FOX. And THEY tell you that mainstream media aint followin this story.
Or MAYBE the mainstream media aint comin the the same conclusion as you and Bobo and the rest of the Neo-Cons that this signals that GWs Iraq war is a unqualified success!!
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
"How long will it take before the anti-Bush crowd realizes Osama Bin Laden and Lex Luthor are not one and the same? "
--I'm pretty sure it'll take a lot longer than it takes neocons to realize that a presidential campaign theme based entirely on hating Hillary Clinton won't make America forget their pitiful Republican candidate lineup or the multitude of sleazy and criminal acts the GOP has committed against our country for the last 7 years.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
William, I'm retired US Army with a son who has put 2 tours in Iraq, one abbreviated by IED. I never compared OBL to Lex, but only Dumya has called this a crusade and invokes his god. So if anyone is generating bugger bears for the country to fight it is you and the right wing. You guys just have to keep people scared to keep your control, don't you? How Un-American of you!
Did you even bother to serve your country with the possibility of putting your life on the line?
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DarkWizard1 year, 7 months ago
William Sire,
"Unlike stopping Lex Luthor the capture of Osama Bin Laden will not stop the evil that he is doing. We are fighting the evil of terrorism as he should."
If your premise is correct then the U.S. will have no choice but to chase these fleeing terrorists. As President Bush made abundantly clear, we are at war with terror and any country that harbors terrorists. Therefore, this war cannot end with Iraq becoming a democracy, but only after terrorism (as defined by this administration) is abolished.
I suspect that we will find that these terrorists have fled to the country we want to attack next. This will make it easier to start another pre-emptive war.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
'Wash Post': Don't Celebrate Turnaround in Iraq Just Yet
...violence has decreased. But it hasn't gone away. It is only back down to the 2005 level -- which to my mind is kind of like moving from the eighth circle of hell to the fifth.
I interviewed dozens of officers and none were willing to say we are winning. What they were saying is that at least now, we are not losing. But to a man, they were enormously frustrated...
...Yes, one reason that the city is quieter is because of the presence of American troops. But, another reason is that some Sunni neighborhoods are walled off, and other Sunni areas have been ethnically cleansed. In addition, the Shiite death squads, also killed some car bomb guys...
..I've heard generals talk about big troop cuts in Iraq for more than four years now. (first in Oct. 2003.) So I will believe it when I see it....
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/ar...
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fsev411 year, 7 months ago
Its certainly great to hear some optimistic news about the "surge" but:
Haven't heard any good news about political progress for as long as I can remember. In fact, Mr AlMaliki(Shiite)is publically feuding with his vice-president(Sunni). There accusing each other's party of blocking progress (sounds kinda familiar).
Turkey is on the verge of invading the Kurdish north because we can't control the Kurdish rebels there. Whose side do we take if that happens?
The rumbling of war drums continues for confrontation with Iran.
We're paying Sunni "peace keepers" $300 a month not to kill Shiites. We're probably paying Shiites the same not to kill Sunnis or will be very soon. How much is that costing us and how long will it continue.
Meanwhile back in Afganistan where the terrorist threat started the Taliban is retaking control of large segments of rural Afgan--. Osama is still mouthing off and our "ally" Pakistan is about to fall apart at the seams.
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fsev411 year, 7 months ago
Sure looks to me like we may be winning "the battle" but we're sure as heck losing "the war". Thanks W!
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
remember when Condi testified to the Congress that it would take 6 months just for her to train up her support to the surge. Part of her support was to get more people into each of the Iraqi ministries to make sure US bucks were being spent correctly. Gosh, Condi support like this should have been there from the start. Anyway, she asked the already stretched military to do it, as usual. What continued failed foriegn policy and support to the war!
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NelsonR1 year, 7 months ago
Tell that we are winning to those still dying on both sides while a lull occurs. Winning, unbelievable that anyone could be that impractical in their thought process.
We will never "WIN" in Iraq unless you have consistent happy thoughts twinged with a belief in the tooth fairy.
Another example, the author probably believes our economy will be strong when we have a positive one day run and that house prices are going to shoot through the roof upward.
All insanity. We need new and fresh leaders in D.C.
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vor1 year, 7 months ago
Winning? You still cannot define victory. Of course victory to the neocons is securing the oil fields and Iraq itself as a geo-political prize from which to launch future ventures in the region.
No matter that Iraq is in just as much chaos as before only with a reduced death count. Understand that Shia and Sunni have essentially separated and retreated to their own enclaves. This has especially occurred in Baghdad itself. There has been zero progress on political reconciliation and how can there truly be? The hatreds that divide these people are religious and ancient. They are not forgotten by love of country.
George Will made an excellent point this morning on ABC, saying "there are no Thomas Jefferson's in Iraq, Saddam killed them all". Add in the 2 million that have fled altogether (because they could afford to) and we are left with some rather poor quality material from which to construct a nation.
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
Over a million Iraqis killed since Dumya ordered the war in 2003 is a whole lot more than a contained Sadam was killing prior. Then add over 2 million Iraqis who left there country while we occupy it. And, we now know from both the Dilpher (Sp?) Report (our head guy looking for WMD for Dumya) and the 911 Commision that there really were no WMD after 1998.
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Amazing11 year, 7 months ago
You can't "win" an occupation. And that's what it is. It has nothing to do with a "war on terror." AlQaida was not in Iraq until we destroyed their country. Our feckless leaders lied us into an invasion that was stupid and has hurt us in many ways. We have lost our reputation, our economy is in the toilet and many of our sons and daughters have died or been maimed for life. Our national debt is out of touch and China is holding the notes on a lot of it. Yeah, great, the violence is down. This whole adventure has been stupid from the git-go.
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ADAGUY1 year, 7 months ago
Well hell, since AlQueda is gone, and the threat seems to be over, lets bring em' home! Way to go Bush!
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fsev411 year, 7 months ago
From the Repug "100 Most Useful Phrases" book: We're making real progress but the next six months will be critical. Bout time to wheel that one out again!
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NelsonR1 year, 7 months ago
If France, Britian and the U.S. hadn't screwed with the Middle East in the early 1900's and separated the Ottoman Empire into their playground terrorism probably would never had been the norm there.
Oh well, lets meddle some more, we are the moralist of the world.
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lestparker1 year, 7 months ago
Wars are won a little bit at a time, not with grand victories and magnificent strategies. This is one of those little steps that seems to be in the right direction. With a few more steps, maybe we can have a good outcome for Iraq. Keep up the good work boys and girls.. you have my unqualified support!
P.S. I am not a republican or a "neocon" whatever that is.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 7 months ago
No maybe you are not, but history proves that you only win wars when the population is with you, at home and in the war zone
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
Here you go parker. This explains the origin of the Neo-Conservative ideeologie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
And this link will take you to the Neo-Conservative's very own website. This page will explain their Statement of Principles.
You will notice that a fair amount of this administration has signed the Statement.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofpr...
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donald511 year, 7 months ago
lest, unqualified support? Do you really support all our troops have done when it includes things we have never permitted them to do before like preemptive war, torture (Abu Ghraib was a result of the Bush torture memo and gitmo ops carried to Iraq), political assasination by hellfire missile that also takes out innocents, taking habeas corpus away from detainees, etc...
Really, this is what poor, unscrupulous civilian leadership has forced on our fine soldiers to accept!
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ADAGUY1 year, 7 months ago
I find it laughable that so many of the repubs are saying "I'd rather fight them over there, than over here!"
Yeah, like any Al Queda factions in the US are going to leave and go to Iraq!
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