Death Penalty & Wrongful Convictions »
Posted By Spadecaller 1 year, 10 months ago in NewsPerspectives of the death penalty and wrongful convictions remain a perplexing issue in America. Here are three videos that offer a closer look at the current policies. Included in the article is a poll; cast your vote.
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Spadecaller
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Spadecaller1 year, 10 months ago
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"There are no millionaires on death row nor will there ever be. Almost everyone on death row is poor. And do you really think that no millionaire ever committed a capital crime? I'm saying that there are certain people that we are willing to offer up, and not others, and they're the people who have no power."
Thomas Cahill
Only the poor and disadvantaged are convicted of crimes that they are innocent of; only the poor and disadvanted receive the death penalty. And who ever appeals the death of a convicted murderer wrongfully charged?
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namecritic1 year, 9 months ago
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Hi spadecaller.
My opinion on the death penalty is simply if the people of that state vote to have the death penalty then they should have it.
If the voters say they do not want it, they should not have it.
But the voters of each state should make the decision.
That's democracy.
Our justice system favors the people who can hire the best lawyers. It should not be that way, but it is.
Maybe that should be a factor in whether or not a person votes for or against the death penalty.
If you would not personally go kill that person on death row, then you likely should be against the death penalty altogether. Having someone else do what you would not personally do is just hypocritical.
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Spadecaller1 year, 10 months ago
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"In our understandable desire to be fair and to protect the rights of offenders in our criminal justice system, let us never ignore or minimize the rights of their victims. The death penalty is a necessary tool that reaffirms the sanctity of human life while assuring that convicted killers will never again prey upon others."
Ventura County's former District Attorney, Michael D. Bradbury
I don't agree with Bradbury, but it his view is widely held.
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Candida1 year, 9 months ago
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I don't agree with it either. I could never understand how killing an additional person "reaffirms the sanctity of human life." If anything, it reaffirms that human life is not sacred.
There is no doubt that society must be protected but, in my view, it is sufficiently protected if the penalty is life in prison.
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gamahuche1 year, 10 months ago
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Unfortunately its silent time in my home now and I can't watch them.
But I'm not inhibited from stating my point of view, held for over 50 years that the death penalty is ALWAYS wrong with no possibility of exception.
The first political activity I was involved with was the abolition if the death penalty in England. Now in Europe
I wouldn't even bother to get into a discussion about it.
Of course if someone kills its wrong and they may need to be kept in circumstances where they can never repeat such an offence again.
Of course if someone killed one of my nearest and dearest I would wish that they be struck by a thunderbolt or suffer the torments of the damned but NO I do not believe that it is ever right to take away a life in any circumstance.
And I can completely accept and understand that others feel differently.
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gamahuche1 year, 10 months ago
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According to Amnesty International's report for 2005, over 2,100 people were executed worldwide and 5,186 people were sentenced to death in 53 countries in 2005. The vast majority of all known executions occurred in China (at least 1,770 executions). Iran had the second highest number with at least 94 executions, followed by Saudi Arabia with at least 86 and the USA with 60.
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Spadecaller1 year, 10 months ago
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namecritic1 year, 9 months ago
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is it cruel and unusual punishment in light of say, someone torturing their victim to death slowly over a period of days?
I'm not saying I am for the death penalty. What I am saying is that some of these killers whose lawyers are saying that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment did much worse to their victims.
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Mdiar1 year, 10 months ago
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Hmmmm. The death penalty is something that has been around as long as laws have existed and the concept of the rich being able to buy there way out almost as long. I don't disagree that there is something wrong in the system. But at the same time I know people who have been assaulted in horrible ways, some by people in there own family, who would truly relish the ability to just kill them. I can't truly blame them. But, considering that death is quite irreversible (unless we all wish to pursue the path of Dr. Frankenstein, that is) then perhaps it should be abolished. I don't necessarily find it cruel and unusual or unsettling to the stomach considering what these people have done. But at the same time mistakes have been made in the past and will be made again and mistakes can never be reversed if the person is dead. Then again the people in the vids aren't going to get all those years of there life back either, so reversed isn't the right term. I'll have to ponder this a bit... cont.
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Mdiar1 year, 10 months ago
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Thanks for the heads up on this btw Spade. Overall I'd say that I agree that the death penalty should at least be given more consideration, I for one know that in my own more emotional moments I'd not consider the consequences of my actions, perhaps I'm unusual in this. It seems to me that unless you are a sociopath of sorts that anything that requires the death penalty at the moment would be done during a time of extreme emotion. Therefore, by that logic it is not really very good at suppressing that act. I know in this state there have been propositions to expand what crimes fall under the death penalty, but only under the evidence of DNA in said crimes. I support this as DNA doesn't lie, and the crimes, while not lethal in nature, ruins the lives of young girls and boys. Even after years of therapy they'll never be quite past it. But when it comes to crimes not involving DNA evidence, I'd have to say that the death penalty is wrong. Even with it... I'm still unsure.
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flyonthewallzz1 year, 10 months ago
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Hello Spadecaller:
I also have limitations in terms of being able to view media on my Idiot box.
Forgive me if my name does not come up as a vote (Silly personal rules).
As a pragmatic thought about the death penalty,
Disregarding the failures of the justice system,
Why destroy the key information about threats to our society for simple vengeance?
Would it not be wise to know our enemy?
Are there patterns that could be studied?
Sociologists rush in and come up with theories about bedwetting and childhood abuse, but the folks that step out side of humanity are destroyed before comprehensive questions can be asked.
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Mdiar1 year, 10 months ago
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I hadn't completely considered the study of these people. To be honest with you I think that crimes which tend to give the death penalty fall into two general groups: Crimes of passion (emotions are so high and tuned up they aren't thinking, whether it be anger or hate) and crimes that stem from a mental illness of some kind. For the former I'd be willing to say we can all understand that, if not to that extreme. We will never be able to change our own nature about that and would we really want to? That extreme of emotion can give good as well as bad... look at our greatest works of art and literature. However, the latter should be studied. I have my doubts we will ever truly understand those who lack a conscience, but there is no harm in trying to do so. Perhaps people on death row should be sentenced to scientific study. But that causes the problem of false info from those wrongly convicted. Just some food for thought I suppose.
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Silverghost1 year, 9 months ago
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FOTW: I also had trouble watching the videos & I think that I've tweaked my old box as far as it will go for flicks. I think that 3 You Tubes on one site is too heavy for me.
Yet I patiently worked my system, drinking Sprite & reading mail while the video fully loaded before I viewed them, being careful not to scroll down to activate the next one. On the 3rd try I was able to see all 3. -Rev. S
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Silverghost1 year, 9 months ago
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FOTW: Spade has a good point about justice not being served to the poor, which is against what the Scripture requires: "Ye shall not have respect of persons in judgment, but ye shall hear the small, as well as the great."
While you have a neat point for research & evaluation, the matter of justice still begs an answer.
Certainly, any sane person would not want to see an innocent person executed, nor even incarcerated. 2 of 3 cases on video were not capital cases. But the fault is not with capital punishment being an appropriate penalty for heinous crimes, rather right justice in finding guilt.
With our system bogged down with tort cases being tried for greedy folks, it is hard to have proper justice heard & a speedy trial honored. If we reformed torts alone, it would relieve the case loads. The simple rule in other countries is that the person suing has to pay for costs, if he loses. Cont'd>>
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lvrofwolves1 year, 9 months ago
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A big reason I'm against it might not be the best reason, but here goes- I couldn't live with myself if I convicted someone who was innocent. I can't imagine the horror of being put to death or even put in prison for something I didn't do. those who have been wrongfully convicted, I feel SO sad for, their lives are basically destroyed. I even hate being on jury duty-what if I'm wrong?
Other reasons are I could not personally put someone to death unless it was an act of extreme (at that very moment) vengence, like if I saw them just kill my child or something like that..and I'd have to do it right then.
As far as an actual crimminal-might be some who accept their fate and feel they deserve to die.
I guess once in awhile I feel like leathal injection is just punishment-but since I could not personally hand that punishment out, I have to be against it.
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Beeboppin711 year, 9 months ago
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I actually cried tears of joy for these men while watching these videos. I couldn't be happier that they are now free. I can't imagine the suffering they had to endure while being incarcerated. I am, and have always been against the death penalty. There are no sub-clauses, no additional articles to God's law - Thou shall not kill. His law is not up for debate. This article and these videos clearly illustrate why.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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beeboppin71
Me too. I was so moved by their stories that I felt compelled to submit this.
Sometimes when dicussing topics like these, we can be removed from the personal insight and experiences of real people, who are like you and me -- with feelings, loved ones, and hopes too. How does one really understand this subject without looking into the eyes of its victims and survivors?
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Silverghost1 year, 9 months ago
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Beeboppin: Did you realize that God instituted capital punishment in the next chapter after he gave the 10 Commandments, including the 6th Commandment of "Thou shalt not Kill"?
There is a good answer to what is seen as a dilemma. -Rev. S
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namecritic1 year, 9 months ago
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The question is how would you feel after watching the videos of three child molestors torturing three children to death?
It's terrible to wrongly convict anyone of any crime. But what about those who we know for sure committed their crimes?
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natashas1 year, 9 months ago
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I support the death penalty.
I understand that people can be in jail that were wrongfully accused. I still hate the idea that we are paying for rapist and murders to eat, sleep, and watch TV just so they will be released and commit more crimes. If an officer or anyone else did something illegal, than they are responsible for there actions and should be punished by the law. We need tougher crimes for people like that. I can protect people from becoming victims if the worst criminals are dead or on there way to be.
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Mdiar1 year, 9 months ago
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You certainly have a right to feel this way. However, when it comes to cost I think I have heard somewhere (I'm not sure where) that the death penalty is more expensive then a life sentence, once all the appeals and legal red tape is cut through. I'm not sure and wonder if anyone has any knowledge ready to hand on this though?
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klr601 year, 9 months ago
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My opinion on this, is, if someone commits a murder-per se, prison time-we don't need them on the streets or neighborhood, or whereever. Take tis example of the rich, Martha Stewart & Bob Ney (presently)., served their sentences In WV @ cupcake prisons-not fair. The point I am making-if you commit a crime-the person had his wishes come true, and get that person out of society, so him/her cannot do vengeful or otherwise crimes to us law abiding citizens. Sure, there are wrongly convicted criminals, but, if they were not suspects at the time-they would not be in prison. Thank God for DNA & i voted to abolish-it is costing the states a fortune to keep them & they eat better than us, etc.-case closed here
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GoldStandard1 year, 9 months ago
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My stance on the death penalty varies depending on individual instances. When one takes a life for any reason beyond self-defense, they have forfeited that right for themselves and declared themselves unfit to live in a civilized society. Justice demands that the guilty are punished in proportion to their crimes, (or as close to proportionate as possible.) But in order for justice to be carried out, irrefutable evidence that the accused is guilty is an absolute necessity.
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truthiness1 year, 9 months ago
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It matters not whether the victims desire death as justice, or if we do make occasional mistakes in verdicts (the latter being a separate issue we must resolve).
What matters is that we, as a society, enforce our mores via our justice system. If we say it is morally wrong to kill and then kill the killers, how are we supposed to convince the generation we are raising that mean this?
it is not rational to expect that we will transform our culture within a generation, but if we hope to change it over time then we must consider the implications of our current actions to those we hope will carry on our ideals.
This is achieved by teaching them through words and actions. This teaching must be done in the home, the schools, and as a culture.
lack of forethought is the greatest danger to humanity.
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GoldStandard1 year, 9 months ago
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In the event that an individual has killed one or many innocent people, how is it moral to allow that individual the same right to life that he has denied others? To prohibit the victimizer from being punished accordingly is a slap in the face to the victim. No. That is not justice.
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Dicax_Maximus1 year, 9 months ago
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I have a fairly simple take on this issue. Those that have, by their own actions, demonstrated their "opt out" from civilised society, should have their wish granted. I'm talking about peodophile killers, rapist killers, mass murderers. These "people" have, by their own choice - sane or otherwise - shown exactly WHY they should be removed from society as a protective measure at least, justice being shown to be served at best.
To some of the comments above as to "studying" these creatures, given the reported cases where the "psychiatrists" declared them sane & fit to return to the comunity, where they have re-offended & done worse, why bother ? Waste of time & money.
As to the sanctity of human life, they threw that "right" away the day they started their actions.
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Mdiar1 year, 9 months ago
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Dicax Maximus, I agree with you. However, I don't believe you read my comments completely or I did not get the point across quite clear enough... here is a valid quote for your comment on "studying and release"- "It should be studied and the people never released. Then we can work on prevention of crime in a more effective manner". Straight from what I said, just letting you know that I do not advocate treating and releasing. An earlier reference to rehabilitation I made was before a crime had been committed but when tendencies to certain behavior were shown. Sorry for the confusion.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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dicax_maximus
How many executions of innocent victims warrant the "justifiable" execution of guilty ones? One... two... 10...100 ....500?
If you were on death row innocent of all charges, would you want an opportunity to appeal your case beyond the date of your execution?
Do we care more about avenging the victims than protecting the innocent, who are convicted of crimes that they were ill-equipped to defend themselves against because they lacked the money to do so?
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Dicax_Maximus1 year, 9 months ago
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If I may be so bold, your figures of innocent victims do tend towards the unlikely, especially with today's forensic technology. I agree, that innocents being put to death would be wrong, but the cases I'm looking at, as 100% guaranteed guilty. These are the ones where (in my book), forget the appeals, just remove them (call it what you will), at least you can be 100% certain that they will never re-offend....
Slightly off-tangent, but still within the framework, I'd also suggest that for those trials that are "death sentence" offences, change the method of trial, from by jury, to by panel of judges experienced in this area of law, and whose impartiality has been proven by their previous judgements. That should remove the emotive side of jury verdicts, stomp all over eloquent lawyers & give the poor a decent chance.
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jmopinion1 year, 9 months ago
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Thank goodness for DNA and new technology mistakes are very limited. Usually, the death penalty is for the most aggrivated violent cases. A lot of these mad-dog killers have overwhelming evidence against them and should be removed from the face of the earth for the victims and societies sake.
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OldHickory1 year, 9 months ago
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I am ambivalent about the death penalty as long as the guilty party is punished, whether by death or life in prison. The fear I have about abolishing the death penalty and subsequent resentencing of those animals to life in prison is that in the future some bleeding heart legislature, governor, president or supreme court may come up with a way to further reduce their sentences so that they become eligible for parole. And I don't care to hear about how they were unfairly convicted and their other sob stories. If they weren't guilty of the crime(s) for which they were sentenced then most of them certainly were guilty of other crimes they got away with.
Semper fi.
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Tango571 year, 9 months ago
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I'm on the fence on this one. I live in one of the nations largest cities, with an increase in murder and horrendous violence. I carry a weapon with a license and will shoot to kill to protect myself or others. Am I imposing self judgement by doing so? I have never killed anyone but I would if it came to me or the bad guy. I see some of the most hateful vengeful people on the planet. If you never have, it's a shocker...remember to join a gang, you have to kill someone. You can argue it all starts in the family, where tradition is gang violence. I talk to people who have lost loved ones to violence, and it resorts to revenge. One way to stop this is to make some hard choices and decisions in our society. Some people deserve to die and should, if nothing else to free them of themselves.
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greenmac1 year, 9 months ago
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The death certificate for a person executed is listed as homicide.
"The manner of death is listed as justifiable homicide. That is, the box next to "homicide" on the death certificate is checked off, and the word "justifiable" is typed in above. Though there is no space on the form for it, clearly someone believes that a qualifier is necessary here."
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Some people become extremely angry about this subject and insist that it is a simple issue.
And, some of these members hate those that they perceive as "bleeding heart liberals" so much that they can not even tolerate different opposing views.
The subject seems to evoke a lot of political bias and stereotypes. I don't think this is a simple issue.
Most rational people all agree that there are seious flaws with a system that only punishes the poor --that there are innocent victims wrongfully convicted, and that executions that are cruel fail to meet constitutional requirements.
This is not a simple issue and it is obvious that changes are seriosly needed.
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bruhaha1 year, 9 months ago
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I am opposed to the death penalty, at least as it currently stands in most places in this country, especially Texas. Too many people given the death penalty have had poor representation by lawyers who do not care. Add to that false convictions...what makes us any better than a murderer if we put someone to death for a crime they didn't commit.
I would not be opposed to it as much if not for the chance that innocents could be put to death for a crime they didn't commit.
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