Anti-Semitism, A Dead Issue »
Posted By Spadecaller 1 year, 9 months ago in NewsSome say the holocaust never happened and others say anti-Semitism is only a myth.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Well Spade, the ultimate irony is that cries of anti-semtism are being used to cover up another holocaust - in Palestine.
What is the lesson to be learned from the Holocaust?
Religion â;; Hedy Epstein, is a German Jewish Holocaust survivor, born in 1924, whose parents perished in Auschwitz. In 1948, Hedy Epstein went to live in US. In 2003, she made a trip to Palestine. Shocked by the oppression that the Israeli government is imposing on Palestinians, she is devoting herself to make it known to the world.
http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/01/14/w...
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Shadowolf1 year, 9 months ago
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Mindless hatred leads to more hate...what I just cannot understand is those who attempt to deny the Holocaust,as though what happened then somehow dilutes their pet peeve...Hyperbola seems to have a feud with Spadecaller;as though if he denies the Holocaust;it will somehow validate his own anger about the Palestinian Conflict...I rate that as BS-999!!! The children and grand-children of the victims have become the aggressors;(Well, some of 'em.)that does NOT render irrelevant what Hitlers Legions did...or the lessons we learned...YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR CAUSE ANY GOOD,Hyperbola!!!
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Poulenc1 year, 9 months ago
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Yes, heart-wrenching and infuriating. Some people must find others to hate, to scapegoat, to feel "better than," to feel "safer" or in greater "control" or...or....or.
True--and despicable.
What "bystanders" like us can and should do is, always, to speak up. As gay activists of the 90s so trenchantly noted, silence kills.
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slate1 year, 9 months ago
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Yes there are people that hate for no reason and with absolute hatred. One caller I heard that called into the Michael Savage talk radio blamed the Jewish people for everything from the Black Plague to the attack on the World Trade Center.
This nut went as far as to say that the Jews have given no value to the human species with such belief it sent chills down my spine.
When Dr. Savage, who happens to be Jewish, asked the man if he felt that all the medical and science advances that have been attributed to Jewish individuals make any difference to this hateful man's view the 'man' said no, the Jews are vermin.
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Amazing11 year, 9 months ago
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What is the matter with these people who do this kind of thing? What kind of parents have fostered this kind of hatred in their children? This is beyond comprehension.
And what should be done? Making it public may only encourage like-minded idiots to do the same in their neck of the woods. This is a problem with no easy solution.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Well, it is the equivalent of this problem - and the parents that promote it.
Racism Inside Israel
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEN108A.html
Israeli Textbooks and Children's Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/099...
Zionism as a Racist Ideology
http://www.counterpunch.org/christison11082003....
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splitrch1 year, 9 months ago
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Exposing cowards like this to daylight is what will bring this type of desecration to an end. There is no place in any society for this type of behavior. Burying our heads in the sand will only encourage cowards and bullies to think they can get away with it. If they can be arrested and prosecuted and jailed then those who would emulate these actions might think twice before doing it.
Then again Nazis, skinheads and bigots aren't too bright too begin with.
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SpazMat1 year, 9 months ago
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Hyper:
from your article:
"armed only with stones and some old Kalashnikov rifles"
Assuming that were true, what makes an AK-47 any less effective than a AKM, or other assault weapon?
But that leaves out the whole slew of rockets that get fired into Israeli land.
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Tango571 year, 9 months ago
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I believe people who do these things or speak in that manner do so, just to hurt others. They live in ignorance without regard to truth, in other words, darkness. I also believe to live in light,"truth" is not easy. As for some denial and darkness is all they will ever know. When I relocated, about 2 weeks later at around 3 in the morning, I received a phone call. The caller announced they were the KKK and killed blacks and jews. At first I was horrified and scared. Then it occured to me, (I'm part french/native american and german)what if I had to grow up in this type of rehetoric? It really made me think of the "why".
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Beeboppin711 year, 9 months ago
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Ignorance breeds hatred, that breeds more hate, that breeds more hate. Elie Wiesel has stated that the only way to cure society of this disease is through education. This type of hatred is a learned behavior that must be unlearned. Hate crimes are committed against all types of people everyday. Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheists, African American, Mexican, Caucasian (Yes, even whites experience hate crimes from certain groups!), Rich, Poor, Homeless, Disabled, Single working moms/dads... The list goes on. We all bleed the same. Let's educate each other about our differences and show how they enrich others lives instead of this astronomical hatred.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Unfortunately Elie Wiesel is one of the biggest frauds around. All those books and he has never once said peeps about the 7 million christians and moslems that have been robbed, killed, expelled or put in concentration camps.
Elie Wiesel: Denier of Palestinian Misery
... Wiesel is the icon of what Norman Finkelstein has called "The Holocaust Industry' and as such he has served as a prop to "get the Jewish vote" by every American President since Gerald Ford. He defends Israel as "the Jewish state," in spite of the fact that over half of the population in the lands controlled by Israel is non-Jewish, mostly Palestinian Arabs. He won't call Ketziot or Gaza a concentration camp; he won't call the "security barrier" a wall; and he won't admit that Israel is an apartheid state where Jews have the hegemony and where non-Jews have lesser rights or none at all....
http://counterpunch.com/mcgowan10252006.html
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Beau78901 year, 9 months ago
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Anti-Semitism, along with all other forms of discrimination based on race and/or religion, are not only alive and well, but they're becoming more popular as it becomes more acceptable to denigrate "political correctness" and laws against hate crimes.
And then there's this, from last week:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/738593,CST-N...
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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I agree with your opening statement, but we Americans have a LONG way to go in applying it.
Oren Ben Dor: Israeli Apartheid is the Core of the Crisis
... The denial of this core apartheid must stop. We should say it loud and clear. The apartheid system which lies at the core of Israeli statehood should be dismantled. It is unethical to rationalize the apartheid notion of a Jewish state. It is not consistent to be a friend of Israel, thereby endorsing its apartheid-based statehood, while criticising its apartheid practices in the Occupied Territories. Apartheid should have no sanctuary in any future vision of two states for historic Palestine.
Only when this realization sinks in will it be possible to envision a stable political solution--a single state over all historic Palestine-- in which redress can be made for past injustices and equal citizenship provided for all, Arabs and Jews.
http://www.jerusalemites.org/News In English/en...
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Amazing, Beeboppin, Beau, Dicax Max, dexlove, Don, eugenegerard, Janet, Poulenc, and Tango ... you guys do more than share the same values; you voice them openly. I'm grateful to know people like yourselves. There was a time, when even like-minded people remained silent. We should never have to regret that kind of silence again. Thanks for sharing with me.
Paper clips were chosen as a symbol to represent the Jews that perished in the holocaust. It was selected, in part, because some people from Norway wore them on their lapels as a symbol of resistance against Nazi occupation during World War II.
I can only hope that the voices of people like yourselves will always be more numerous than the 6 million "paper clips" used to honor the Jews murdered during the holocaust.
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idov1 year, 9 months ago
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I have been in a constant battle with hordes of anti-Semites at Reddit for the past few months. I only went there to check the stories. Unbelievable what I found there.
http://www.root-1.co.il/reddit.htm
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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idov
Excellent link. Thanks.
What you found on reddit is just a more overt display of what is also found here on Propeller.
Their numbers are dwindlng here, because when they clearly break the Terms of Use enough times, management kicks them out. Who knows... maybe they end up nesting on reddit.
I'm not shy about my heritage and consequently, at times, I can be a lighthning rod for the Jew haters.
Usually towards the end of threads like this one, when there are only a few people left observing, they creep out of the woodwork like cockroaches to begin their personal attacks. Their latest ploy is to paint me as a Christian hater, because I often run articles about right-wing extremist groups that use Christianity to smokescreen their sick ideologies.
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canadianrancher571 year, 9 months ago
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Anti-Semitism has never died, It never died in Europe and it never died here in North America, Some of the vetrans that came home from the war in Europe came home more bitter toward the Jewish poeple than when they left. I have known many men who fought Against Germany and alot are upset because of stories that they were told while in Europe and most of it came down to economic situations in many of those countries. One vetran told me many years ago that the wealth that was in Europe left and came to the U.S. and Canada and soon we would see many of the people who run the country would be Jewish. These stories have been told over and over for years and when times get tough we see the results. As a percentage I'm not sure if there are more Jewish business leaders or even more Jewish politicians but people seem to think so. I beleive that we are going to see alot more trouble here in North America as economic conditions worsen.(continued)
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canadianrancher571 year, 9 months ago
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If this continent enters a full blown depression we will see a very sad situation in regards to anti-Semitism. One thing that I think Is good is that some schools are presenting the story of the holocast and it does help but it also causes some of the kids to question about the number of Russians who died in the war. The problem is teachers don't explain that one was a systamatic killing of a group of people by rounding them up and killing them.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Should our schools also report about systematic ethnic cleansing?
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
A Review
Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian and senior lecturer at Haifa University. He's also Academic Director of the Research Institute for Peace at Givat Haviva and Chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian Studies. Pappe is an expert on Israel and Zionism and the Palestinians' Right of Return to their homeland, is considered "an honourable academic with integrity and conscience," and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Council for Palestinian Restitution and Repatriation (CPRR), an organization declaring that "every Palestinian has a legitimate, individual right to return to his or her original home and to absolute restitution of his or her property."
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markoller1 year, 9 months ago
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Canadianrancher57,
The biggest contributors to anti-Semitism are Stalinist Jews. They may be a minority, but they monopolize the mass and nearly monopolize the Internet. They use the epithet anti-Semitism the same way Stalin used the expression, "enemy of the people." They would gladly murder all of the people they hate, if they had the chance. They certainly have no qualms about acting as the propaganda arm for Israeli and neoconservative mass murderers.
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pongping1 year, 9 months ago
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I agree with all the comments that the desecrations shown in the post are despicable and must be deplored. But why stop there? I have met Chinese who had relatives killed and shops burnt in Indonesia. I have met Russians who had family purged and sent away not to be seen again. I have known black men whose grandfathers were slaves. I have seen stories of hospitals bombed in Lebanon. I've known Southerners who had tombstones of family members toppled. I have read accounts of slaughters from Cambodia, Japan (Christians), Turkey, Africa, Gaul, Africa, and other places.
We human beings can be darn right nasty at times.
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doggammitComment removed: Retracted by user
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 9 months ago
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There is no reason for this type of behavior other than hate.
I have not heard of these types of hate crimes happening. Desecrating Jewish headstones, vandalizing them is hate pure, plain and simple. There is no excuse, no reason for it, no justification for it.
I'm not sure in the case of the teens that I agree with the parents paying restitution. Sure they're out money. What will they have learned? I would rather the teens pay not just the cost of restoring the tombstones, repairing the tombstones but all expenses related to it. That they also partake in some type of classes and/community service. Prison and jail time is understandable, warranted. I guess i just want them to pay for what they have done in a very real tangible way.
There are laws against hate crimes and they need to be enforced and upheld.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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That is certainly true, but what does one say about and do with those who are killing for racism? Do you think our media should start presenting the real facts to Americans?
Deadly Distortion
Associated Press Coverage of Israeli and Palestinian Deaths
...
II. Coverage of Children's Deaths
9 Israeli children's deaths were reported in the headlines or first paragraphs of AP articles on the Israel/Palestine conflict in 2004, when 8 had actually occurred. During the same period only 27 out of 179 Palestinian children's deaths were reported. (Children are defined by international law as those who are 17 and younger.)...
AP reported on 113% of Israeli children's deaths in headlines or first paragraphs, while reporting on only 15% of Palestinian children's deaths.
That is, Israeli children's deaths were reported at a rate 7.5 times greater than Palestinian children's deaths....
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/ap-report....
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david_nwpa1 year, 9 months ago
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I teach high school German. Each semester I offer about 2 to 4 weeks of material to my students about the Holocaust and hate crimes that have occurred since the war. I tell my students that we must never forget the atrocities of World War II, and we must fight to assure they never happen again. With permission, I would like to use these images in class.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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That is very useful and politically correct. The real heroes are those who speak out and resist similar crimes being carried out in their own times. Here is an israeli jew that I would regard as a hero. It is a real shame that the US does not support such jewish heroes.
The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
by Ilan Pappe
University of Haifa
The book shows that in 1948, the Zionist movement waged a war against the Palestinain people in order to implement its long term plans of ethnic cleansing. The Arab world tried to prevent this cleansing, but was too fragmented, self-centered and ineffective to stop the uprooting of half of Palestine's native population, the destruction of half of its villages and towns and the killing of thousands of its people.
..since that ethnic cleansing was successfully implemented in 80% of Palestine without any global or regional repercussions - the ethnic cleansing policy continues ever since 1967 in the remaining 20% of the country.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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"By the early 60s Israel sat behind the ceasefire lines of 1949, there were no so-called "occupied territories" and they only had half of Jerusalem, the two common excuses "anti-Zionists" employ today to justify their attacks, verbal and violent, on Israel.
"Yet there were "anti-Zionists" around. When one approached Martin Luther King, he saw through their horseshit right away, saying, "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."
Classic anti-Semitism, straight up calls to strike the Jews in any way possible, remained moribund, but now alongside the "anti-Zionists," others not so interested in the Middle East began denying that the Holocaust ever happened or that the figure of six million killed was a gross exaggeration."
Hyperbola is obsessed with his anti-Semitic tyrades.
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Are you calling this israeli jew an anti-semite Spade? Or are you trying to excuse crimes against humanity by crying anti-semite?
Oren Ben-Dor: Who are the real terrorists in the Middle East?
What exactly is being defended? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state? I suggest the latter. Israel's statehood is based on an unjust ideology which causes indignity and suffering for those who are classified as non-Jewish by either a religious or ethnic test. To hide this primordial immorality, Israel fosters an image of victimhood. Provoking violence, consciously or unconsciously, against which one must defend oneself is a key feature of the victim-mentality. By perpetuating such a tragic cycle, Israel is a terrorist state like no other.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Just like my government here in the U.S., I do not agree with all its policies, I do not agree with the right-wing in Israel regarding the occupied Palistinian terrorities. But most people are not riddled with hatred for the Jews, respect the right for Israel to exist and do not want to see Israel destroyed. Hyperbola hates Jews and Israel.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Hyperbola often hides his/her anti-Semitism, which is always directed at me. Hyperbola's comments on my threads invariably are posted directly under my comments, simply because I am Jewish.
Here are examples of Hyperbola's comments directed at me:
"Are you prouds of all your jewish heritage Spade? Like the part that has robbed, killed, expelled or put in concentration camps over 7 million christians and moslems? Or this part?
Stalin's Jews
We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/14/...
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SonOfTheMask1 year, 9 months ago
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I'm certain Hyperbola would disagree with that characterization of his motives. Perhaps he would respond that he is simply "exposing the truth". Perhaps he would say you are taking things personally. Perhaps he would say that you're not able to be objective since you self-identify with the group that his "commentary" is criticizing.
Hmmmm....
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Well Spade, I have replied to many in this thread. The article about Stalin's Jews was written by an israeli jew and published in a mainstream israeli news site - as you can see by following the link. You don't think Americans should be able to know or talk about this?
How about this from an american jew Spade? Is this anti-semitism?
The Apartheid Paradigm in Palestine/Israel:
Chomsky says U.S. backing of continued Israeli occupation and annexation of Palestinian land is the biggest obstacle to peace.
This is from conference The Apartheid Paradigm in Palestine/Israel: Issues of Justice and Equality. The video was broadcasted by Democracy Now! on November 27, 2007
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/articl...
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Dionys1 year, 9 months ago
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Pointing out the genocide and abuse of Palestinians by the Israeli Government (*not* supported by the majority of Jews or Israeli citizens) is not being anti-Semitic. It's just putting into the light things that are often kept in the Shadows by the Israeli government, US government or US media who live in fear of "Zionist" groups.
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Centinel1 year, 9 months ago
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Anti-Semitism will remain alive and well as long as the elitist zionists, who are hated even by most jewish people, are manipulating world events as they have done for 100 years. So long as anti-semitism can be used by these zionists to foment animosity toward jews and arabs it will exist.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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"So long as anti-semitism can be used by these zionists to foment animosity toward jews and arabs it will exist."
You blame all the zionists for anti-semitism. How bizarre. A person who believes in the right of Israel to exist and would defend its sovereignty is a Zionist. That is no different than an American who is a patriot.
If you are referring to Right-Wing Zionist fundamentaists who support the occupation of the West Band and the Palistinian territories, than that it different.
Your statement creates a stereotype of what an ordinary Israeli citizen is and how most Jews who value the right of Israel to exist.
You display the American flag; I suspect you consider yourself a patriot. Some people choose to bastardize the word "Zionist". That only inflammes the situation in the middle east.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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"I decided to devote my life to telling the story [holocaust] because I felt that having survived I owe something to the dead, and anyone who does not remember betrays them again."
Elie Wiesel
This topic is about anti-Semitism and the descration of Jewish grave sites. For those like Hypebola who would only add to that desecration, I will not entertain any further dialogue. Hypebola's conduct is only a typical example of hatred for Jews. Most of us are committed to honoring human dignity and do not need to hate a particular group of people.
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1-2-Oscar1 year, 9 months ago
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A small correction is in order.
SOME "of us are committed to honoring human dignity and do not need to hate a particular group of people." In light of your behavior on this site, I do not think that you should use language which suggests that you are among that group.
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markoller1 year, 9 months ago
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Spadecaller,
You care as much about this vandalism as Stalin cared about exploitation of the proletariat. You are actually delighted by the propaganda opportunity. It allows you to vent your Jewish hatred and masquerade as an opponent of hatred. It also allows you to portray opponents of Zionism as Nazis, without saying so.
If you really oppose hatred, you might begin by condemning Zionism. Tolerant Zionism is as oxymoronic as Nazi brotherhood. At least, condemn Israel and its American quislings for blowing up the Twin Trade Towers. The official lies fool no one except the uninformed. And admit that whoever painted these swastikas and SS lightning bolts, on Jewish grave stones, were probably motivated more by sadism than hatred.
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