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Posted by: Spadecaller 1 year, 9 months ago
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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hyperbola1 year, 9 months ago
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Well Spade, the ultimate irony is that cries of anti-semtism are being used to cover up another holocaust - in Palestine.
What is the lesson to be learned from the Holocaust?
Religion â;; Hedy Epstein, is a German Jewish Holocaust survivor, born in 1924, whose parents perished in Auschwitz. In 1948, Hedy Epstein went to live in US. In 2003, she made a trip to Palestine. Shocked by the oppression that the Israeli government is imposing on Palestinians, she is devoting herself to make it known to the world.
http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/01/14/w...
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BoxMonkey1 year, 9 months ago
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This is not new news [ anti-semitism ] . In Ridgewood a communitty that borders Queens and Brooklyn , there are many Jewish cemetaries that have been vandalized throughout the years . Tombstones that date back to the 1800's . Anti-semitism is alive in all communities I've visited . Most recently exploited in that movie " Borat " . And although the Jews get the most attention when the word Holocaust is used , let's not forget the Armenians , Kurds , Somalians and many other religious or nationalities that have faced similiar consequences that are not publisized by the press .
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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boxmonkey
"And although the Jews get the most attention..."
All the Jews I know would not care to get the "attention" as you describe. Surely a poor choice of words or a poor opinion of Jews
"This is not news." Boxmonkey, what an insensitive remark. Just a few days ago there were people crying over the broken and desecrated graves stones of their loved ones. Are you that devoid of human compassion?
Why is that not news; it just happened and it is a horrible thing to do to anyone? Isn't it?
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xlegultx1 year, 9 months ago
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Blackadder19641 year, 9 months ago
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While I agree with the sentiment, i have to agree with boxmonkey. I have re-read his comment several times and see nothing insensitive there he simply points out there is also racism/hatred/oppression in the rest of the world, I would add to his list with Cambodia, Tibet, Burma, Zimbabwe, Kosovo and East Timor (under the Indonesians).
The Holocaust was a terrible thing but it doesn't excuse the building of walls or the sniping of civilians from Israeli guard towers (I have seen this my self) by the same token the PLO's (or their new sub groups) achieve nothing by sending young men as suicide bombers either, with many innocent civilians dying on either side, both sides are just setting up the next generation of hatred.
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david_nwpa1 year, 9 months ago
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I agree. I teach in classes that other genocides have occurred around the world. Some have been massive and quick such as Pol Pot. Others have been spread out over generations such as Manifest Destiny and the slaughter of Native Americans. We can hardly claim that the desecration of tombstones is NEW news. It has been an on-going problem for far too long. What I think is important is that we make it fresh by identifying the people responsible. We need to stomp out the hatred wherever and whenever we see it.
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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david_nwpa
Why not discuss the story that was posted rather than to allow others to detour the focus elswhere?
The fact is that there are many people (over 3000 hate groups in America alone) dedicated either to deny the Jewish holocaust, perpetuate hate, silence Jews, and who support hate crimes against Jews. Why do some people refuse to acknowledge that and to discuss the subject posted?
You are free to talk about Alexander the Great and his drinking problem too, but there is a reason why the subject of anti-Semitism or racism is always met on Propeller with those who take every opportunity to dismiss, deny, or detour the focus elsewhere. Why?
Some people are so easily fooled.
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Candida1 year, 9 months ago
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It is not dismissing or denying the problem, but acknowledging that Antisemitism is just a part of a bigger problem: hatred and prejudice against groups on the basis of race, color, religion, etc. The video to which you've posted a link further below is a very powerful and scary one, but sometimes you also have your blinkers on. You are saying: "The fact is that there are many people (over 3000 hate groups in America alone) dedicated either to deny the Jewish holocaust, perpetuate hate, silence Jews, and who support hate crimes against Jews." Yes, that video clearly shows that, but it also shows that the hatred is not directed exclusively against Jews but also against blacks, and perhaps other groups as well. Are you dismissing the other problems by not including them?
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MajJohn1 year, 9 months ago
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The post as you correctly point out is about antisemitism. One can respond to it by pointing out that there are other horrible things that have also happened. This I suspect is an attempt to either justify or diminish what happened. It's another way of saying,"they got what they deserved". Another response is to claim it's not news. This is a bury your head in the sand attitude also meant to minimalise the holocaust.
Let us admit here and now that the holocaust in WW II happened and vow not to forget so as to not allow such things to be lost from our conscience. Hopefully, in some way that the memory will not allow us to let that happen again. Unfortunately, the so called civilized world does allow such things to happen but this is another topic.
Bringing up Manifest Destiny and the westward movement are also good topics for another time. Let's not deflect from the fact that hatred is alive and well and antisemitism exists. Why? Another topic!
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AntarcticIce1 year, 9 months ago
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anti-Semitism is a bad thing, the holocaust defiantly happened and that is a terrible thing and you can go to jail for denying it in Germany. There is nothing anti-Semitic in the above comments, by comparison the Armenian genocide of WW1 killed as many as 1.5 million and is totally denied by the Turkish and some have been sent to jail for raising the issue. And frankly MajJohn suggesting this somehow justifies or diminishes or says "they got what they deserved" in regard to the holocaust, is bulls%%t.
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Shadowolf1 year, 9 months ago
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Mindless hatred leads to more hate...what I just cannot understand is those who attempt to deny the Holocaust,as though what happened then somehow dilutes their pet peeve...Hyperbola seems to have a feud with Spadecaller;as though if he denies the Holocaust;it will somehow validate his own anger about the Palestinian Conflict...I rate that as BS-999!!! The children and grand-children of the victims have become the aggressors;(Well, some of 'em.)that does NOT render irrelevant what Hitlers Legions did...or the lessons we learned...YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR CAUSE ANY GOOD,Hyperbola!!!
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Candida1 year, 9 months ago
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I don't see any denial of the Holocaust in hyperbola's post, quite the opposite, especially if you read the link he's provided. His point seems to be that we should learn from it, and not fall into the same traps again with different groups. As BoxMonkey points out, there have been other instances of mass murder on the basis of religion, nationality, etc. both before and after the Holocaust, and we should be aware of them and try to prevent them. Even in those concentration camps, a lot of different kinds of people died. I've personally known a Communist who had survived Dachau.
There are many ways to kill people. As horrendous as killing millions in concentration camps is, starving people to death (Ukraine), chopping them up by machetes (Rhowanda), bombing them (most wars), killing some and depriving the rest of their livelihoods (Darfur) are all horrible.
It's the mindset that leads to these horrors that we should fight against.
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slate1 year, 9 months ago
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Well said Candida,,,,, the 1940s Holocaust will not be forgotten anytime soon, and these sort of acts that happen in the present should be dealt with appropriately,,,
We all know that the Holocaust happened and that many people of different ethnic or political backgrounds died. I too think that Hyper is pointing out that he 'feels' that a holocaust is going on against those in Palestine that should be looked into as well which would be hypocritical to not look into,,,,, Looking into the allegations seems to be a fair thing to do, seeing how the world knows how bad doing such a thing against a 'people' is,,,,,,
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slate1 year, 9 months ago
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What he (hyper) says may or not be valid, but having a perspective of man's past sins against man, they (mankind) should look at the situation in Palestine with an un-jaundiced eye. If Hyper's fears are justified, I'd think any Jew worth his salt would want the Palestinians to not have to suffer the same faith their Jewish forefathers had to endure at the hands of Hitler's Legions.
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zimm1 year, 9 months ago
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What Palestinians are suffering in Gaza is the result of them firing HUNDREDS of rockets and mortars at Israel (just this week alone). Israel pulled out of Gaza and in return has received nothing but a non-stop barrage of attacks. Same thing happened when Israel left Lebanon. Hizbollah launched thousands of Kaytusha missilies. How do you make peace with those who have not given up on their dream of your destruction??
As the famous quote goes "If the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be no more violence, if Israel puts down her weapons there would be no more Israel."
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slate1 year, 9 months ago
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Hey I know of these things,,,,, and we can talk about the Chicken or the egg coming first,,,,, I support Israel and love that they know how to protect themselvels while being surrounded,,,but the point is this,,,, humans can't be indignat about unjust things only when it pertains to their own personal groups or cause, while turing a blind eye to the very same thing happening to others outside their group,,,, If only man as a whole could lay down their arms,,, what a great world it would be ,,,,, just think of all the good all the money spent on militaries around the world could do.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 9 months ago
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You show a definite pro-Israel bias here Zimm. The Palestininans in Gaza are not being left alone. They are being held prisoner.
Israel was DRIVEN from Lebanon by Hezbollah, who in in Lebanan are regarded by Muslims and Christians alike as heroes who resist foreign invasion and provide social welfare to the widows and orphans created in that country by the Israelis.
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Daylight1 year, 9 months ago
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tkyrchncs
Israel was DRIVEN from Lebanon by Hezbollah, who in in Lebanan are regarded by Muslims and Christians alike as heroes
Well said.
People have the right to resist and repel Israel or anyone else who invade and oppress in the name of so called freedom and democracy.
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ciscokid1271 year, 9 months ago
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Zimm what you say is true, but it is also true that the Israeli military tear down the homes of family members of attackers the effect this can have, is only to create more terrorists
I have followed this conflict for years and tried to see it from both sides and have failed, to me it seems to be 60 years of tit for tat.
While I sympathize with the Jewish people, I also wonder if I had been forced from my home in the late 40s and not been allowed to return, to what had been my country and see my family since or seen settlers tear down my home and build on what had been my families land for generation, if I would be on a hill firing rockets.
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markoller1 year, 9 months ago
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Hi Ciscokid127,
Israel has the power to tap every phone in America, including the President's. Think of the opportunities for blackmail. The whole nation can be held hostage. This story was broadcast on Fox News. Then it was squashed. Read "Is Israel Blackmailing America?" http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/22/... Please tell your friends.
Thanks,
Mark
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SpazMat1 year, 9 months ago
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People like me, that is, approaching 50, have a hard time looking back to things that happened in the 40. It is the whole problem with not being born yet. All those kids who are forced to live in those camp, have no home to which they can return. The were born in those camps. They are kept in those camps - not so much by the Israelis or even by the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Jordanians, and UN, who will not allow them to integrate into their countries. But mainly, they are being kept there by their fathers, who demand that they stand separate, until they get their land back. The land the kids never knew, and in most cases, that their fathers never knew.
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jdhatl1 year, 9 months ago
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Some people in Palestine are being killed, jailed, or having their homes demolished who are not firing weapons or attempting violence against the Israelis. The problem with the situation is that the entire community suffers because of the violence perpetuated by a smaller number of people. Effectively the entire population group is deemed guilty by association. Israel can do better than that. It's the extreme right in that country who have too much influence with military policy. The Israeli people also suffer greatly from this situation in which no-one seems truly motivated to make the insanity stop. It's nothing to compare with the Holocaust, but criticism of Israeli policy is a good thing, and it does not equal antisemitism.
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markoller1 year, 9 months ago
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Hi Jdhatl,
Israel has the power to tap every phone in America, including the President's. Think of the opportunities for blackmail. The whole nation can be held hostage. This story was broadcast on Fox News. Then it was squashed. Read "Is Israel Blackmailing America?" http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/22/... Please tell your friends.
Thanks,
Mark
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Spadecaller1 year, 9 months ago
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Candida,
The quotes below are from hyperbola and the link from where they can be reviewed. Do you justify those remarks? Personal attacks based upon my heritage?
What is this story about? Would you tell the man who is lamenting over the desceration of his father's grave, "well that happened to other people too so lets move on to something else?"
Hyperbola often hides his/her anti-Semitism, which is always directed at me, regardless of subject matter. Hyperbola's comments on my threads invariably are posted directly under my comments, simply because I am Jewish.
Here are examples of Hyperbola's comments directed at me:
"Are you prouds of all your jewish heritage Spade? Like the part that has robbed, killed, expelled or put in concentration camps over 7 million christians and moslems? Or this part?
Stalin's Jews
We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/14/...
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Candida1 year, 9 months ago
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I wouldn't want to defend anybody's comments in general; I was talking only about that one comment. However, I don't see his comments exactly as you do. Taking the hypothetical example you give about someone lamenting his father's grave, I see hyperbola as saying: "It's happening to other graves as well; let's do something about all of the perpetrators." I know that he expresses himself in an abrasive manner, and perhaps he sees Israel as you see Nazi Germany, which is probably insulting to you, but he is fighting against injustice too.
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Daylight1 year, 9 months ago
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Spadecaller
Hyperbola often hides his/her anti-Semitism, which is always directed at me, regardless of subject matter. Hyperbola's comments on my threads invariably are posted directly under my comments, simply because I am Jewish.
Spadecaller, according to my understanding Hypebola himself is a Jew or a Semite.
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