The Rich, the Super Rich and the rest of us »
Posted By Beeboppin71 1 year, 9 months ago in Business & FinanceSimply being a multimillionaire is not enough these days to qualify one for the economic elite. "It's all relative, if you pull up to a dock and yours is the smallest yacht..." The US is experiencing a widening income gap. The last time the richest Americans earned a larger percentage of the nation's income was before the Great Depression
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Beeboppin71
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BronxBomber1 year, 9 months ago
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It's nicer doing that in you're own little island...
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/
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Beau78901 year, 9 months ago
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Surely you're not advocating starvation and poverty because they provide incentive to improve? If so, why not take all the wealthy people's money in the form of taxes that could rebuild the infrastructure in this country, and let them starve too? After all--they'd clearly be more motivated to produce more, right?
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not2needy1 year, 9 months ago
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My brother and i were just talking about this the other day.
He said a very wealthy friend of his told him, "If you have a million, you want two, if you have two you want four, you never have enough".
Sadly this is what i think i am seeing in our society today. The rich never have enough, and they are willing to see the rest of us homeless in order for them to have what they think is their just desserts.
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GoldStandard1 year, 9 months ago
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"The rich never have enough, and they are willing to see the rest of us homeless in order for them to have what they think is their just desserts."
That's bull$hit. Nobody's out to get you. The fact is that EVERYBODY strives to build better lives for themselves. I'm not bad off, but I could be better, so what are my options? I could just sit around OR I could educate myself further on how to make more money. I save, plan ahead, invest, look for the best interest rates...in short: I THINK.
I might not always succeed, but I attempt to learn from any mistakes I make along the way and attempt to diversify my efforts to make sure I don't risk everything. That's how it's done, and that certainly is no sin.
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Candida1 year, 9 months ago
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not2needy: "The rich never have enough"
I agree with you. Whether one has enough money depends on two things: (1) how much you have, and (2) how much you need. If you need little (and judging from your name, you do), then it's easy to have enough. Having enough probably doesn't guarantee happiness, but it's hard to imagine people being truly happy when they feel that they don't have enough.
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Beeboppin711 year, 9 months ago
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FTA - "The lifestyles of people in these stratospheric economic brackets can be hard for many Americans to imagine. Peterfriend-Ross recalled [a] client who owns a private jet. The woman's child was so accustomed to this type of travel that when the family boarded a commercial flight, the youngster became confused and asked: "What are all these people doing on the plane?"
Goodness!!! I hope the poor child wasn't too scarred by the experience.
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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And yet, if you listen to the people running for President on both sides, they simply don't have a clue. Even John Edwards with his "Two America's" doesn't really GET it.
There are two overriding issue here where it comes to wealth in America. Capitalism dictates that, over time, it is inevitable that wealth will become concentrated. Secondly, because of capitalism, the Republic has come up for sale to the highest bidder. It is no accident that this election cycle for President is estimated to cost over 2 BILLION when all expenditures are considered. Think about that for a second.
Now, I'm not for Communism, but I am for rational tax policies that slow the accumulation of wealth into the hands of a few individuals. If you listen to supply side economists they will tell you that if you give tax breaks to the wealthy it will "trickle down" to the rest of us. It's ludicrous and it doesn't work.
cont:
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Centinel1 year, 9 months ago
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That is because the obscenely wealthy came to realize that they were not "required" to let it trickle down so they just decided to keep it and to hell with the rest of humanity.
There are many reserved apartments in hell waiting for these people.
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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from above
Some have argued that Reagan's tax policy (which lowered the rate on the wealthiest Americans the most) led to the largest expansion in the economy in American (and world) history. Well, that's true. But at what cost? When Reagan became President the deficit was just over 900 billion. When he left office it was over 2.5 trillion and it hasn't stopped growing since. Currently it's about 9 trillion.
Now, here's the problem with that. Most of that growth in the debt has not come from expenditures in gains, but rather in foreign purchases of bonds (China currently holds the most along with the Saudis). If that 9 trillion was an investment in infrastructure (remember the levees and the bridge collapse?) it would make some sense, but it isn't. We're not spending money to make money, we're handing out tax breaks and spending money on wars.
I've got to write an article about this. My comments too long and I'm constrained by space. LOL>>>
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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Here's the national debt clock:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Look how much we owe!!! Just think, my nearly two year old son already is in debt to HIS freaking grand-children.
AHHHHH!!! This stuff just irritates me.
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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Lease. There are tax breaks in place to help you if you lease rather than buy. Of course, that assumes that you're leasing it privately rather than through your company. If you buy it through your company it becomes a capital expense and then you can depreciate it over time and write off the depreciation on your corporate taxes.
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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Excuse me. I need to tie my thoughts together so it doesn't look like I'm trying to take this thread off track.
The US government spends a HUGE amount of money in contracts, tax breaks and entitlement programs. The people that have a vested interest in keeping the gravy train running are the super rich. Get rid of the estate tax? Rock on, it hurts poor farmers and small businesspeople. That's just BS. There's a floor on the estate tax of $2 million. So, if your estate is worth less than that you don't pay taxes on it. Above that it's pretty steep, but there are ALWAYS ways around it.
The point is that the way the system is set up, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in real terms. It's wrong and it's unAmerican. I don't give a crap what Hannity, Limbaugh, Romney or Reagan says.
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Bkumm1 year, 9 months ago
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Here's an article on the estate tax you might find interesting.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/06/06/est...
Oh, and the floor on the estate tax is $4 million for couples this year and $7 million next year and the year after that, it's repealed.
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bigG1 year, 9 months ago
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I almost corrected you earlier on the exemptions but you caught it.
I personally don't believe Paris Hilton deserves a great big tax break either(even if she can't afford panties). Her Grandfather thought the same - he gave 97% of the money to the Hilton Foundation, a charity.
Unbelieveable how so many can be duped by the emotional issue("The government wants to tax you even after you are dead") instead of the real issue - that the government is just collecting tax on the capital gains.
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not2needy1 year, 9 months ago
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simonsez1 year, 9 months ago
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Maybe the ugliest attitude day after day on Nutscape is class envy. It's as though you think if someone is successful in life, it somehow takes away from you.
The article states that most of these people made it on their own, but you scorn them for their accomplishment anyway. Believe it or not, the dollar they made did not come out of your pocket unless you bought something they had to sell. They create thousands of jobs and you create nothing of value.
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Beeboppin711 year, 9 months ago
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That's the spirit, Simon! The average Joe in this country is completely worthless! They hold no value what-so-ever!
As for our entrepreneurs, their efforts to create jobs are greatly appreciated in India, China and other third world countries.
Enjoy those tax breaks, Love!
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Beau78901 year, 9 months ago
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simonsez, it's not so much class envy as it is the idea that so many of the wealthy believe they alone are entirely responsible for their successes--the corollary being that the poor are entirely responsible for their failures.
The most obvious examples of the fallacy of that belief are starving folks in third-world countries and people struck by debilitating illnesses or born with mental disabilities. There are many other examples.
Like it or not, luck, fate, or whatever you want to call it plays an enormous role in determining most people's lot in life. Just look at our president's background.
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CactusAnnie1 year, 9 months ago
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I think you are right simonsez.
From the article: "...There is one key difference between the concentration of wealth before the Great Depression and that of today, researchers say: Most of our era's super-rich weren't born that way. Only 8 percent inherited their wealth, ...The majority,... made their money by starting a business or growing someone else's..."
I think one of the secrets is finding your passion, something you love to do so much you will want to continue doing it even through the difficult times. Next you have to chart a course, create a plan/map and constantly revise to adapt.
Then, guard your heart along the way, it will mean little to gain the world if you lose your soul in the process...
Soapbox and foundation: 1. Treat others the way you want to be treated. 2. Share the rewards with those who help you prosper. 3. Give back to the community.
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not2needy1 year, 9 months ago
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simon, all that proves is they were in the right place at the right time, not that they are smarter or more efficient in what they do.
It may mean they were very proficient in stealing someone else's ideas. It's surprising what people will do for the almighty dollar.
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icono11 year, 9 months ago
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"They create thousands of jobs and you create nothing of value."
Exceptional attitude about people that work for a living(maybe they even work for you...if so, aren't you happy they do such a good job at making 'your idea of success' work and come true), pay taxes, send their children to college, have little or no insurance or savings and buy products that maybe you produce and or sell.
Exceptional attitude.
Enjoy the caviar.
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texangelwings1 year, 9 months ago
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This article is good! The disparity between the haves and have-nots was one of the big problems during the Great Depression.
Without jobs that pay a good wage and consumers with money to spend, their wealth will rapidly dry up!
Thanks Beeboppin!
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canadianrancher571 year, 9 months ago
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On thing that I noticed is when people talk wealth they are usually talking net worth which is most times just assets that have a value on them. When I go to the accountant I always get this story of how well off I am supposed to be. The number he is looking at is just a number and at times my wife and I wonder where the money for groceries is going to come from. There is oppertunity to still become wealthy but one has to be willing to make the sacrifice to set money aside and also be willing to lose that money, if you're wrong it really hurts but I like the challenge. I believe that we will likely have another great depression and when that happens hopefully there is a redistrubution of the wealth. One of my pet peaves is sports stars, people complain about money then tell me about the season ticket they bought, I have a solution buy a tv and sit at home.
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Tango571 year, 9 months ago
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Ah come on, I could give one person a million dollars and it would be gone in a year. Blown on stupid stuff. I give another person a million and in a year they have 2 million. We are all on equal footing in life. It's our expectations that limit us. We all achieve our dreams. If you don't like where you are at this moment, change the way you think, then watch miracles happen.
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Beau78901 year, 9 months ago
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It is up to us to try to improve our lot, as CactusAnnie says below.
But we are definitely NOT all on equal footing in life. Some begin with much more opportunity than others. Some are given opportunities later on. Some never catch a break at all.
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ETproductions1 year, 9 months ago
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The great depression came on us when the top 1% of Americans finally controlled 50% of all the wealth in the nation. That happened after a long stretch of Republican rule. The Republicans are the party of the rich. Their deceit and dirty tricks come from the fact they need to dupe lots of middle income people into voting to be robbed. Hence the alliances with the war mongers, the religious zealots, the immigrant haters (racists), and the homophobes.
Since the Reagan Revolution and Newt Gingrich's "Contract with America", the Republicans have been pushing wealth to the wealthy just exactly like they did before the great depression. The latest figures show the top 1% now holding something like 45% or the nation's wealth.
This always brings on a depression because as much as the rich want to have it all, it comes from commerce. When they bankrupt the middle class the engine that drives the economy runs out of gas and the rich suffer right along with the poor.
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tiredofwhiners1 year, 9 months ago
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This is another rich bashing commentary. What definition of how a rich person should be? It's results that matter. Edison was very greedy as to wanting all the inventions. But we have electric lights & power, movies and on and on as a result of his greed. Gates is probably greedy and we have computer operating systems as a result and the world's largest charitable foundation too. Carnegie was greedy and when he got old he gave it all away and his lbraries are all over the world to this day.
Most of you don't understand what the super rich are really like. What the real super rich creators are usually like is that they are very smart, very hard working and what turns them on is getting the long end of the stick, the better side of a deal. Most did not go into their enterprises with the idea of feeding or housing the poor. Often money doesn't matter to them. (cont'd)
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tiredofwhiners1 year, 9 months ago
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Famous examples or seriously wealthy billionares NOT caring much about their money:
H.L.Hunt lived in the same old house forever and drove an old Chevy. He bought clothes off the shelf at Sears and brought a bag lunch to work every day. He made and lost millions many times. When he was broke he had saved enough to play poker on the river boats and would build up a stake again. He played against the best of his time including Doyle Brunson and Amarillo Slim. He once said he would care not if he lost all his money again and had to start over and said it would be a challenge he would savor. He said he would be a millionare again within a year.
Warren Buffett is well known for his frugal lifestyle. He likes his plain old house and has only considered buying a big screen HD TV lately and doesn't take expensive vacations. He thinks he should be paying more taxes but isn't sending in voluntary $$ (you can do that if you want). (cont'd)
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tiredofwhiners1 year, 9 months ago
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H. Ross Perot said he pays all his taxes (billions to date) and doesn't mind. He said he does mind what they do with his tax money. He did not include his kids in his will and they understood that. He wanted them to make it on their own, a principle I wish other wealthy would follow.
J. Paul Getty did have extravagant mansions but he finally installed payphones because he got tired of hangers on taking advantage by using his phones for long distance calls (moot today - thanks to some millionare entrepeneurs we don't have to pay much anymore for long distance). His point was a principle that helped make him rich and stay rich, not the money itself.
As mentioned before, Carnegie gave away his entire fortune to charity (free libraries) when he got old.
If someone invents a cheap solar energy unit, I could care less if he/she is greedy and becomes a billionare with a lifestyle like Brittney Spears and pays no taxes. I will buy it and work at that company (as long it's not in China).
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tiredofwhiners1 year, 9 months ago
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How did the U.S. ever become (supposedly) the richest nation on earth? The industrial revolution had a a bunch of super rich entrepeneurs building up our railroads, steel, electric power auto manufacturing, etc. and became the equivalent of multi-billionares and paid NO taxes then (there was no income tax). Yes, they cared naught for the poor or welfare, but people somehow saw fit to work for them and buy/use their products. Can we go back retroactively and tax the hell out of them or make them give homes to the homeless? If we did, likely some would've retired after their first million and said to heck with it.
If I knew someone super rich and he/she wanted to go out for dinner, I would take them out and pay for the dinners. a.) Because my principles say do not be a hanger on looking for freebies. b.) It would be worth it to find out what makes them tick and to hear their stories.
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tiredofwhiners1 year, 9 months ago
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There's a whole lot of BS here in the comments. You don't get rich by hard work, intelligence and risk. It's usually by luck or inheritance. Right, and money grows on trees too. Someone had to do something in order for their kids to inherit it! Rich= greedy&selfish. Nope, if anything, the rich become callous to those in need because of the constant begging for handouts and complaints about how rich and greedy they are. I've known rich people and almost every one gives money away, is caring and has their favorite causes and charities. Their favorite cause may not coincide with yours, therefore they are greedy and selfish.
One of them almost entirely supports his church (I'm not religious). But I don't hold that against him. They went down to Mexico and built a school. I think that's good, but not my favorite cause.
He buys a new Ford SUV or truck every couple years and for his kids too. Good, that supports Detroit. He flies 2000 miles to see the Packers play. Good, it helps lots-
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stephanlynn1 year, 9 months ago
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I'm under time constraints to get this project done. http://oljelskap.rightvital.info/sitemap.html
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