No Content = No Vote part 1 »
Posted By Radiofreeeuropa 1 year, 5 months ago in Science & TechnologyFirst of a three part series about the Propeller.com community and some suggestions regarding submissions with little or no content.
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Radiofreeeuropa
All progress comes from unreasonable people.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
Do you agree with this proposition? Let's really have some debate about this. After all, you decide what appears on our front page. Do you want it to be a picture of a duck and 30 ads?
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tomboy5011 year, 5 months ago
I absolutely agree. The blatant spam that is allowed to propagate the home page here is shocking, especially since this site is groomed by editors and anchors. I can only surmise that they allow it to flourish for a reason (the spammers=traffic business decision). This has driven me away from participating on this site much these days.
There is such a great social news community here on Propeller. The spam and 'no content' posts degrade the site.
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SonOfTheMask1 year, 5 months ago
RFE, I would challenge your views on this subject. Either Propelle is an open forum to submit material that doesn't violate the Terms of Use...or it isn't. As long as the Propeller member is not a "sock puppet" account (no offense Sock Puppet) then they should be free to vote as they please. Panhandling for votes should be allowed. But, I also think there should be a way to "block" PM messages if you don't want to get such pleas.
At one time, when still Netscape, the algorithms put up only the most "popular" stories, regardless of channel/category. It was a good idea to change it to put up the top several most popular stories, but to also put up the top stories by category for several channels that (at that time) didn't get a lot of traffic. To me that is the best overall balance.
If people want to vote up "low content" stories where is the harm? As long as it's not collusive or sock puppet rings, I think it is fine.
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks for this. I 100% agree. I stopped reading my messages a year ago because I was wading through scores of recommended stories daily. It's still not clear to me how articles making the front page are ranked but when the front page is peppered with "articles" along the lines of "101 Ways to Drive Your Man Wild in Bed (Try Them All Tonight, Ladies)" I can't help but wonder. If I thought this was an accurate representation of what was on the minds of the average Propeller user, I'd be okay with that. Saddened and thorougly embarrassed as an American but still cool with it. But many days, visiting Propeller is like listening to Ron Paul supporters bombard C-SPAN with phone calls every morning. It's the efforts of a vocal minority creating noise and being party poopers. Uh-oh...I'm sure that's gonna get me into a lotta trouble. ;-0
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
Excellent RFE! I had recently had to marginalize my buddy list because in time, I had learned to select just friends who have been in the old Netscape that had submitted cogent stories, and not about trivial nonsense about celebrities f doing this, and that for example. I still wonder how in the world some recent stories from newbies get on the front page at all! Plus I had to block some of those newbies who added me to they're list, and feel it is incumbent upon me to vote on theirs, and that they'll do the same for me. That's like giving me an ultimatum in a way. Certain protocols should be taken into consideration I would hope.
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Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
sock puppet advertisers
I don't want to run the risk of censoring anyone from contacting me with stories. Ultimately, it is up to me to vote or to delete those who approach me with content that I would not care to endorse.
However, some of this junk that is made up of the duck and 39 adds should be eliminated before it even makes it to our message boards.
Why should any of us have to sift through all that bs. IT's too much of a waste of time.
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cowboygrandpa1 year, 5 months ago
BB:
Amen to that brother. I've had a couple get irate that I didn't vote on their stories. Here's a clue for all those clueless ones out there. Do a little research and find out what the people your slinging your stuff to vote for and enjoy.
I don't care what the freaking movie stars do, or who's banging who.
I do care about the quality of life for others and the rights of those who can't always defend themselves.
I love humor, and honest discussions.
Certain music and of course politics and sports.
So don't spam me looking for my vote I'll ignore you and erase your message.
Thanks Rfe. Good post.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
Actually that is not a problem. I have my favorites that I trust as well. The two of you are in that group, but I always read your stories even if I come back later to do so.
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BoxMonkey1 year, 5 months ago
Nice write up there Radio . If I don't read the article or thread as you say , I don't vote .I have said something in a few posts about people voting and no comments , and the reply was that the people bookmark the stories to read them later . Then a while ago there was a person who registered under quite a few names and voted thier own stories up .
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Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks for picking up the ball, RFE.
This under-the-radar spam does not serve us or Propeller well.
Competition for front page should be based on criterior that attracts and stimulates thought and interest. To some extent,our front page has become the internet rag of classified ads.
A few ads here and there don't bother me, as long as they are secondary, not obstructive, and they do not compete with the primary interest of the article submitted.
But, as you point out in your story, a picture of "a duck and 30 ads" does not belong on the front page. Besides, I don't like wasting the time to sift through all that crap.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks for weighing in SC! You know the impetus for this whole thing started as a side current on one of your threads, so thanks for the input.
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
May I very politely ask you to consider not being so willing to use a vote FOR as a default?
Its because many very nice people do so that the site does begin to resemble RFE's graphic garbage can.
When I look at those sites, before I pass them by or sink them, I am always astounded who DID vote for them- frequently many of the best and brightest amongst us.
And NO - I don't add them to my black list - just wait until an opportunity such as this comes up to give them a gentle nudge!
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tkyrchncs1 year, 5 months ago
I regularly read and comment on stories I do not vote for. My vote for an article means to me that I recommend it to the Propeller membership at large. I once, ONCE voted for a story in order to "book mark" it and it took me so long to get back to it that I still had trouble finding it! I only sink stories that I an sorry to have even looked at, or those that contain "Ann Coulter" in the title, as she is so low-class that I wish everyone would just ignore her completely whatever she says or does.
Thanks for the commentary, RFE. I'm in.
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
" I only sink stories that I an sorry to have even looked at, or those that contain "Ann Coulter" in the title, as she is so low-class that I wish everyone would just ignore her completely whatever she says or does."
--I'm automatically drawn to stories about Ann Coulter and read them if only to learn if she called anyone a "witch" that day. ;-p
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Dicax_Maximus1 year, 5 months ago
RFE - Good article & excellent points raised.
Voting for the sake of it, is a waste of time and (as posted above) just clogs up the front page with garbage !!
I've only posted a couple of stories and was pleased to see them not only get to the front page, but also generate a fair amount of comment, not just white space !!!
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
No content = No vote.
There is some information out there that is important to share that can be shared in a couple of sentences.
"The Presidential candidates are all bozos."
"Losing people to war in Iraq sucks."
"Liberals are idiots."
"Global warming is real."
But, do you need a web-site submission and three banner ads to let us know? If it's important enough that it can be summed up in just a couple of sentences, maybe there should be more analysis?
It's fine if you want to vote for Bubba865Smith's story on "Dogs that Bark", because you like dogs and you like barking. That's cool. But, if you go to Bubba's submission and it's a picture of a cartoon dog that barks once, consider carefully if you think that "deserves" to be on the Front Page. Much more importantly than that, does it really deserve your vote, your seal of approval?
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canadianrancher571 year, 5 months ago
I guess I must seem sort of anti-social as I have not added anyone to my friends list mostly because the word friend to me is a word that I use causiouly. When it come to voting, I never vote until I read the artical, but do read most that are sent to me. I think that over time we know what people are interested in and know who will be at a story. There have been at times some small stories that I have been sent that were what I would call keepers. In the last little while it seems that spammers are becoming a more visible part of our community and since I don't sink anything i just ignore them.
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tdrapeau1 year, 5 months ago
I read this story before voting on it - great post. What would you all think about an upgrade to Propeller that removed voting and sinking altogether?
We could change the way stories are marked popular to take into account how many people read through it, while still taking into account other items, such as age of the story, number of comments/commenters, etc.
If voting only serves to tell us on the Propeller site what you think is popular, we could streamline this by allowing you to "vote" with your eyes, by looking at the story detail page. That way, you don't have to participate in the algorithm, you can sit back and enjoy social news and commenting!
Thoughts?
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
That's an interesting idea. Does that mean that only stories that got read would make the "Front Page"?
Could we retain voting, but have the number of reads be weighted heavier?
Just some thoughts.
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TimALoftis1 year, 5 months ago
I like the thought of doing away with the current system of Voting/Sinking and replacing it with something that is more in line with Tom's approach. Base the popularity of a story/submission by the number of times the article was opened and thus read, the number of commenters, and the number of total comments. IMO a submission that has 10 comments coming from 10 different Propeller users should be weighed much heavier than if its just a chat or argument between 2 people.
Under this approach, COMMENTING would play an increasingly important part of the site which is partly what 'Social News' is all about.
If one wanted to quantify how a submission is doing - instead of having and showing the number of 'Votes'...replace it with number of 'Views'
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AlphaGnosisComment removed: User banned.39 Replies
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Francisca1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks for this story RFE! I agree with everybody. Sometimes (BB is right):that's like giving an ultimatum in a way. I haven't always time for reading entirely all the submissions...because too many in my message center, it's why I firstly choose these of the people who have the same "feeling" that mine. I never vote without having read the story and if I don't comment it's because somebody told what I wanted to say before me.
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rightfromwrong1 year, 5 months ago
I want decent stories on subjects with substance. These one or two lines is absurd
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djn3nunez31 year, 5 months ago
I read alot more than I vote on. I try and vote on stories that I find interesting and well written. I will rarely sink a story based on content unless I feel it it contrary to known reality, or I feel is propaganda. I try and stop myself from getting into name calling spats with those I disagree with but sometimes I can't help myself.
Some good advise here in the article Ben. Keep up the good work.
Peace.
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Klarissa1 year, 5 months ago
Also, when the daily email from propeller states that someone adds me as a friend, I look at their bio before adding them to my list. No bio? I rarely add them.
Also, when someone has 600 or so friends I am suspicious.
Voting for a story is recommending it to others - an assumption that the recommender has read it.
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Unfortunately that assumption is sometimes false. I've done it myself, voted before reading with the intent to go back and read later. Ooops.
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
And again, No Content = No Vote. Whether it's a bio or a submission. I might have a couple of people on my friends list without bios, but there aren't very many.
Some people are uncomfortable putting things in their bio.
You weren't around at the time, but for a couple of months I didn't have an avatar except for the Netscape one. Eventually, I was told to get one or get blackballed. LOL>>> Not really, but the folks from that time (gods was that just six months short of two YEARS ago?) will remember.
So, there should be some leeway on the profile issue, but, in general I strongly agree with your assessment.
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joeblowe1 year, 5 months ago
This is a fine idea - as a recommendation to all. I don't see how it can be enforced, however.
Personally, I don't think I've ever voted for a story I didn't at least glance through...
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tehranchik1 year, 5 months ago
This has been a long time coming. I'm one of those who can't always tell a good site from a bad site. I've been opening almost everything before I vote because of this problem. I do mark articles from trusted users to be read later.
I would like someone to describe an SEO site to me. Ads? lots of blogs have ads---it's not always easy to tell.
Thanks RFE, this article needs to reach all users eyes.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
Any site can have ads. Some good ones have quite a bit. But they have content. SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is not necessarily a bad thing, everyone would like traffic to their site. And most everyone would like some ad dollars to offset the time they spend administering their site. The difference becomes obvious when you view the site and there is no real content. Either literally or in the course of reading a paragraph no real information is presented. (Gamahuche cited a wine post that did in fact have some writing but said nothing at all ... "if you like wine ask an expert in a wine club."
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getreal11 year, 5 months ago
I do get tired of people tried of people trying to sell me stuff. So Radio, you got the nail on the head.
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
I was trying my best to avoid real-life examples but this post pushed my buttons so much that I'd have liked to have sunk it to the bottom of the ocean:
http://food.propeller.com/story/2008/01/22/maki...
A blog which says absolutely NOTHING.
The full extent of the information that it offers, after a couple of warm-up tedious paragraphs is:
"You can also check out your local library or bookstore. Both locations will have a wealth of information available. If you want a more hands on approach consider checking your area for a local wine club. These clubs are usually filled with individuals that have a wealth of knowledge and experience. They often meet weekly for dinner or lunch or they may meet on a bi monthly or monthly basis depending on the type of club and how many members it has. There are also a number of magazines, which can provide you with helpful hits and menu ideas."
[Anyone know a wine-club like that in their neighbourhood?]
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Dicax_Maximus1 year, 5 months ago
Ditto Gam !!!!
I read it thinking there might be some useful info, not simply something that most people (IE those with a brain) would already be aware of....
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blinkers1 year, 5 months ago
Although gama's (above) example of a trite and essentially meaningless thread on wine is generally spot on, among the smattering of comments generated was this gem from icono1, "I tried wine once but it didn't cut the mustard" Ha!
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