Coping with Bigotry on Propeller »
Posted By Spadecaller 1 year, 5 months ago in NewsSpadecaller's perspectives on bigotry and anti-Semitic attacks on Propeller and the challenges they present to all of us. How well do we cope? Do we sometimes react poorly? When we blame others unfairly, do we amend our mistakes? Do we abstain from debate to avoid verbal assault? Do we stand by those who are attacked unfairly?
Read Full Story at propellertalk.com »
222 Views Share Story 55 Comments Report
Submitted By:
Spadecaller
By envisioning, communicating, and creating something different we can help each other find peace and understanding. I usually enjoy the effort despite the obstacles.
"The ...
Who Also Submitted:
Other Related Articles:
Why not submit a story?
RSS Join the Discussion
+ Add CommentShowing 558 of 561 Comments (view all)
-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
"What it is with you people that you have to be so sensitive?" A friendly acquaintance replied in a personal message in response to one of my recent comments about a story that was quite inflammatory against Jews. Was the questioner seriously looking for an answer? What do you think? Do the words, "you people" signify that I belong to a group of people known as the Jews, who are all too sensitive about matters of ethnic bigotry, and who should all shut up? Does the question dismiss the notion that there should be reason for some Jews to feel especially "sensitized" to anti-Semitic conduct?
Many insist that anti-Semitism is a myth; that resentment toward the Jews is a justified. Many people exert great effort in promoting proof that the holocaust never occurred. "The Jews are loud mouth troublemakers." Have you witnessed these stereotypes? Do you find yourself sometimes being lured into believing them?
Reply-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
What does it mean to bear witness? Does it not mean more than just remembering the horrors suffered by the Jews?
A more precise meaning has emerged among many people from all different backgrounds, one that defends all victims of anti-Semitism and racial bigotry. To bear witness means to testify to an event â;; an event that has joined peace-loving people in a common cause dedicated to preventing the recurrence of violence, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.
The holocaust was uniquely evil. Bearing witness to this acknowledges the lesson of history; when it fails to do that, the awareness of history only becomes a sterile portal of a bitter past.
In the past five years, hate-crimes against Jews, vandalism of synagogues, and the desecration of Jewish cemeteries has more than tripled. Should it really be that surprising that Jewish people all over the world are concerned? Do you sometimes see these views reflected on Propeller?
Reply -
0%
hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
Your protestations would have more value if the standards you claim to believe were applied equally to those you defend.
The True Miracle of Israel
Do No Evil â;; If there is any miracle in Israel's existence it is that the lies upon which it is founded could be perpetuated for so long, despite glaringly obvious truths to the contrary. Indeed, it is a miracle that such grave injustice could reign for so long uncontested.
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/28/...
Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State
Religion â;; The Annapolis meeting is a con. We should say loud and clear that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state. To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others.
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/11/21/...
Reply -
0%
hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
By the same token, criticism of zionist treason to America is not only acceptable, but required for American democracy.
A Timeline of ZionCon Treason
Do No Evil â;; Marc Grossman, formerly the number three man in the State Department, is implicated in efforts to provide U.S. nuclear secrets to Pakistan and Israel. A dual Israeli-American national, Grossman has promoted the neocon agenda of forcing "regime change" in the Middle East.
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/01/29/...
None Dare Call It Treason
Politics â;; Who is stealing our nuclear secrets â⻬" and why are they being shielded by the authorities?
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/01/28/...
Reply -
0%
MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 5 months ago
You have said a lot of nothing..You sound like Lyndon LaRouche..
(He's a wordful conspiracy theorist too)
As a matter of fact, he is the Prince of the run-on thought.
Reply -
-
0%
dissent1 year, 5 months ago
Wow....
You're one of those "enough about me, what do you think of me?" kind of people. Borrrrrring.
Reply
-
-
0%
Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
I must be clear. This submission is about racism and bigotry on Propeller. It is not about a particular form of racism or bigotry, but about this behavior in all of its forms.
Reply-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Though I am particularly "sensitive" to anti-Semitism, anyone who know mw know that I am opposed to bigotry in all its manifestatiosn. I see them all demonstrated from time to time.
Atheists, Homosexuals, gender, and race are all targets by some people in both the virtual world and on Propeller. To deny, dismiss, or deflect the conversation by personal attacks has been a common practice by some individuals on propeller. Have you not seen this too?
Reply -
0%
MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 5 months ago
Ethnic pride and opposition to those who challenge it is not racist.
Political involvement on "hot" ethnic conflicts is when opinions become self-supporting and would appear "racist' to those who are most easily offended. Racism is in the eye of the beholder, but here it must only be accused when someone claims: "All .....should be..."
Or "the problem with those people is..... and they deserve...."
or personal racist attacks like "you're only a ....."
other than a few other versions, there is a gigantic divide between passion and racism and the concern for the politically correct police makes it almost impossible to
conduct any civilly motivated discussion.
Hey, mankind is hurting and clashing daily. We are jeopardizing our entire existence as a species on this planet.
Can we come up with some constructive and long lasting even handed suggestions instead of the same old rehashed talking points???? Let's step up!
Reply
-
-
-
0%
Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
That was great Spade. I am guilty of much the same thing when I am accused of being a neo-conservative plant for believing Barack Obama is electable or for stating that the Republicans obviously believed Bush to be the best candidate or they'd have not voted for him, and then people misinterpreting that to think that I said Bush was best. I always try to apologize on the thread when I feel I've over-reacted. I suppose I'm just to young and over-react quite easily still. Thanks for the invite and your right, Propeller does a great job of banning those who step over the line or hiding offensive comments. It could do better but there are far worse sites.
Reply -
0%
walden31 year, 5 months ago
You know the truth is that nothing anyone else can write can hurt us if we don't allow it to. Why give hateful people that power. Why do we allow strangers on the Internet who don't know us to hurt us personally? I'm guilty of it too and then I strike back. And nothing is gained. We're no closer to adopting the other's way of thinking or changing opinions.
Maybe I feel the need to correct people or be right about something. I don't let things go.
I also think it's the nature of the format. This type of format amplifies our differences and minimizes our similarities.
It's also easier to attack over the Internet then it is face to face.
Reply-
0%
Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
I am of the opinion that we should let all the hate sites run their smack. I am against censorship on moral grounds anyway, but bigotry is generally based on a lie. Which enough people have bought into long enough, that eventually it became the truth to many people. If you expose that lie, that is where the truth can truly set us free. We can't do that if we don't let people talk.
Having said that, I think it should be respectful and held to a strict standard. A person could say, for instance, "Isn't it true that many, if not most Irish like to drink a lot?" That, in and of itself, is not a racist or bigoted comment. It's a question, asking for a clarification. Now, of course, it depends on where you sit. If you were an Irishman who had just come from a place where the Irish were discriminated against for their drinking, then it is possible that you would take offense. If you're an Englishman you might find it amusing.
We have a hard time talking about it.
Reply
-
-
-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
I do not believe for one second that those who are hardcore racists and anti-semites are going to change no matter what we do.
The real concern that I have is that they don't spread it to more people who are vulnerable targets and that they are restricted from hurting others.
While I will defend the rights of even the KKK or the American Nazi Party to march down the public street, I do not care to be a member of an organization, including Propeller, that would give them the right to submit stories that are blatantly racist and inflammatory.
If Propeller had the habit of doing so, I would discontinue my participation and so would many other members. The result would be what other forums have experiences: a group of hoodlums and misfits that would spend their time ridiculing blacks, women, Jews, homosexuals, and atheists.
We have seen that already happen.
Reply -
0%
splitrch1 year, 5 months ago
Don't forget about the application of a good beating prior the the ostracism (Don't mind me, I'm just a smartass sometimes).
Reply
-
-
0%
joey-evans1 year, 5 months ago
I see overt racism on this site almost every day. Admittedly, our country has many problems that have not been addressed by the current administration and so the frustration many people feel comes out as outright hatred to those they believe as the problem. It is much easier to point a finger of blame and to direct all their venom than it is to look for a viable solution.
The one I see that is almost universal is that which pertains to the Illegal Immigrant problem facing our nation. Not to say that other targets are not important, because they are most certainly. It just seems to me that the Illegal problem is the one most discussed with hatred directed at the Brown Skinned people, who for the most part are simply trying to make life better for their families and themselves. Compassion for those who are less fortunate then ourselves often times is nonexistant and the tendency is to demonized those who are the least capable of defending/fighting back for themselves.
JOEY EVANS
Reply -
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
Taylor is accused of many atrocities in a small country in Africa called Liberia. Murder, rape, corruption, guns smuggling and blood diamonds, the abduction and use of child soldiers, alleged terrorism ties and prison escapes. He is black. Is it wrong to criticize him and his government for fear of being called a bigot?
Reply-
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
Israel has victimized the Palestinian people with the world turning a blind eye to some of the atrocities committed. Should we turn a blind eye? Many feel that the persecution endured by the Jews during Hitler's regime gives them practically carte blanche to victimize another set of people. Christians here in the U.S. feel that Israel is the promised land for Jews and lend them their support. Is it wrong or is it right. We could argue on some points, but the problem remains. How do we criticize a people that have been victimized throughout history without appearing to be the victimizer again? Answer: very carefully. Make sure the critiques address only the wrongdoings or the government/party involved. Never generalize or stereotype. Remember, even in the worst situations there are victims. Not all of any race is bad.
Reply -
-
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
I am proud to be an American, but I am well aware that all that my country does is not moral or correct. Israeli citizens know this as well. I feel that the "Anti-Semite gun" has a hair trigger. Once a person says the word Zionist and Israel they are automatically blasted with "anti-Semite" label. Hyperbola is a good example of this type of reasoning. He is blasted with this label almost daily. I can't stand for all his statements, but I have seen times where I thought it wasn't justified.
Reply -
0%
splitrch1 year, 5 months ago
Definitely not. We should be more engaged in Africa. A beautiful but sad continent.
Reply
-
-
0%
2sidestoeverything1 year, 5 months ago
Bigotry has been taught and passed from generation to generation. I look at it as an avoidance of looking at ourselves and our own short comings it is much easier to point the finger at a group of others then face our own issues. Many cultures don't even want to look at our own horrendous past but tend to judge others for theirs. Hopefully the younger generations will be more color, gender, and religion blind and know that we are all different and have different views on life and learn to live together with our differences.
Reply -
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
2sidestoeverything
Thanks for your valuable contribution!
It is so difficult to see ourselves the way we really are without fear or favor, isn't it?
Reply -
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Some people have been repeatedly criticized for being insensitve to bigotry, whether it be anti-Semitism or racism.
Perhaps they have a need to minimize and deny those of us who are more keenly aware of its devastating effects, as they may hope to absolve themselves from the underlying burden of guilt by blaming those of us for being "too sensitive."
I wonder what the world would be better off with; more sensitivity about the issues of bigotry or more insensitivity?
Reply-
0%
2sidestoeverything1 year, 5 months ago
More sensitivity with the hope we don't keep making the same mistakes over and over.
Reply
-
-
0%
aceofspades11 year, 5 months ago
"So those of us who have experienced a disportionate(sp) amount of bigotry "
SC are you saying that as a personal statement or a collective statement?
If it is a collective statement I don't need someone such as you speaking for me, a Jew.
If it is a personal statement, I would question how much bigotry you have experienced in your daily life & how it has directly effected you. From your postings I am led to the conclusion that you generate much of this bigotry you feel in your own mind.
My eyes are wide open, so I am not looking with a blind eye, but I have travelled far & have experienced almost no anti-semitism that directly affected me, not that I haven't seen it expresseed many times but without personal consequence.
I have felt more prejudice directed against me for being fat & left handed,than because of my heritage.
Reply-
0%
1-2-Oscar1 year, 5 months ago
I gave your post a positive rating, ace, but only because Propeller does not give me the option of awarding it a gold star.
Reply
-
-
0%
Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
Bigotry, I feel, will never go away. Its natural in many ways to identify with a group, it is human nature. But as time goes on we are seeing less and less of an emphasis on identifying with that group and only that group. Today's youth are more then willing to judge a person based on what they say and how they act more then on skin color. Unfortunately, there is still that small group who are bigoted. As time goes on we will see fewer bigots but they will grow more vocal. Membership in hate groups are on the rise I believe, but I am willing to bet money that the overall number of bigoted people is on a decline.
Reply-
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
Younger people usually aren't afflicted with the burdens of bigotry and prejudice. It's only after they get older and start to stake out their turf in the world that bigotry rears it's ugly head. Remember the Jena 6. It was about some black kids going in an area that had usually been accepted as the whites only area. As the clan or group felt that heir territory was threatened they lashed out, the rest is history.
It's why most feel that affirmative action programs are outdated. People feel threatened that the minority might get too much.
Reply -
-
-
0%
jordan111 year, 5 months ago
Coping with bigotry>>>>>>
That's a dilemma each person has to figure out for themselves. Some will give it another voice. Some will become angry. Some will take it personally. Some will offer facts. Some will offer their perspective. Through it all, hopefully, there will be something for everyone to learn from. Even the bigot.
Reply-
0%
BoxMonkey1 year, 5 months ago
I was wondering where you were on this . I know you have a voice and it needs to be heard [ or read , as the case may be ].
Reply -
-
-
0%
Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
I believe the community at large is appalled at bigotry and racism. I believe a majority here are reasonable decent people. We do see hate in many hues and intensities appear in threads and stories daily as well though. As SC has pointed out there is less of this here on Propeller than other sites.
In this story, The question is how do we deal with it?
There is the terms of use that spell out pretty clearly that denigrating an individual or group on the basis of sex, religion or race is not tolerated. These lines may seem obvious to some while others see them in different places. I sincerely think that talking about bigotry is a good thing.
Truth has a way of inserting itself where lies take an awful lot of loud insistence to continue. Speaking out against all bigotry keeps us thinking about it. It does exist, uncomfortable as it may be to talk about, it is a conversation that is needed.
Reply -
0%
oldgringo1 year, 5 months ago
Radiofreeeuropa wrote:
"There is the terms of use that spell out pretty clearly that denigrating an individual or group on the basis of sex, religion or race is not tolerated. These lines may seem obvious to some while others see them in different places. I sincerely think that talking about bigotry is a good thing."
I'm not very religious but I have noticed that many of you spend a lot of time here on Propeller denigrating Christians. Spadecaller, while I agree with the content, many of your posts against Right-wing fundies might be construed as Christian-bashing. Can't you see how some might see you as bigoted?
Reply -
-
-
0%
walden31 year, 5 months ago
The other one that gets me is when some writes or posts something like, "a real XYZ person would feel this way" or "here's a real XYZ how do you reconcile that with the way you feel" and "you're a fake XYZ because..."
No one person speaks for a group. The only person any of us are experts on is themselves.
Also, when someone just posts and posts and posts, never answers questions and isn't interested in dialogue just in basically ranting.
Reply-
-
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
They're not even an expert on that. People tend to act in what they see as their own best interest. People are not very good at determining their own best interest. That's why we have so many problems today.
Reply
-
-
0%
walden31 year, 5 months ago
Jovial and Bkumm Hyper has arrived. Please check out Hyper's posts on the earlier page.
Now what is your opinion? Is it bigotry? Is it constructive? Is Hyper looking to change opinions, open to opinions or willing to dialogue?
Am I wrong to feel that Hyper hates Jews?
Reply-
0%
jovial1 year, 5 months ago
He has a point to make. He definitely has an axe to grind with the Israeli government. So I think it time to ask him. Since he's here, let's get it out into the open. That way we can settle it once and for all.
Hyperbola: Are you a racist? Do you hate Jews? Please no links to other stories or posts. A simple yes or no will suffice. In fairness you can back up your answer.
Reply -
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
walden3
After repeated confrontations with hyperbola, I had to conclude the same. HIs/her attitude towards Jews is consistently one of contempt and hatred.
That is my personal experience. I tried repeatedly to befriend hyper. I put him/her on my friendship list, invited hyper to stories, and regardless of the subject, the same rants about Jews and Zionists would happen. (All Zionists should drop dead.)
It never even matters what the suject on the thread was. Eventually, I removed hyper from my list. Rarely do I ever read his/remarks, because they usually focus on hating Israel and the Jews. That's my experience. Though there are some subjects that we actually agree on, it is too unpleasant to engage in dialogue with someone that is so hateful towards my etnicity.
Reply -
0%
Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Looking through just the first four or so, I don't think what is expressed here is anti-Jew.
It is certainly anti-Israel, but I wouldn't call it anti-Jew.
Just my opinion and I did not look at all of the articles, so there could be stuff in there that may be anti-Jew, but I didn't see any on a cursory examination.
Reply
-
-
0%
rumple4skin1 year, 5 months ago
I particularly appreciate that Spade moderates his submissions and tries to keep the focus of discussion on target. I can always expect and even appreciate the much anticipated rant from hyperbola. Most (my opinion) comments generated from Spade's posts are measured, thoughtful, and appropriate. Thank you, Spade. Thanks to our contributors.
Reply -
0%
canadianrancher571 year, 5 months ago
I am a WASP or sort of, more Anglo-Celtic, so you can likely know the prejudice I was raised with, but I do know what it is to be on the recieving side of a prejudice. Where I was raised people hated First Nations people or American Indians, Blacks, Jews, Muslims, or just about everyone. My physical appearance in my younger days as well as the color of my skin and my attitude against society made many people question whether I was acually White or a First Nations person and was many times excluded from things and called many names. The one good thing from all of this was tolerance and acceptance of others. The thing that does bother me is when people say that it is wrong to question things.
I would like to answer the last question you asked in your first comment, my answer to that would have to be yes.
Reply -
-
-
0%
bluetexasvalley1 year, 5 months ago
Well, I don't know, Ricky. In addition to my English and Spanish blood -- according to my Hispanic family members and some history books -- I am also descended from Jews. Top that!
Reply
-
-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
"stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." is the definition of bigotry.
Definition of the word "cope":
"to deal with and attempt to overcome problems and difficulties"
One of the main reasons it is difficult to cope with this problem is that some people spend more time proving what isn't bigotry, racist, or anti-Semitic, rather than dealing with what is. This is commonly known as "avoidance."
Reply -
-
-
0%
Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Kelly Tilghman was roundly criticized for her comment and it was wrong. What she said was not in ANY WAY racist. It wasn't meant that way, it wasn't said that way, it wasn't racist.
How many times a day do you suppose somebody says something hateful, spiteful, evil and cruel against Caucasians? I'll bet it's more than you think. Do they "deserve" it? Or is it just as wrong?
When was the last time you saw something on the news about a "hate crime" against Cubans? You just don't see it that often. But, one person says one word that is considered by some to be out of line and she's off the air for two weeks.
Is that right? Better question, is that just?
Reply
-
-
0%
weston1631 year, 5 months ago
I personally am against all forms of racism, but the word bigot is one that needs to be addressed. When I hear or am called a bigot just because my Bible tells me that homosexual lifestyle just happens to be a sin and is perverted then I am greatly offended! The word bigot is a word that militant homos have grabbed for their use against anyone who will not cave in and accept their lifestyle even when it is tearing apart the moral fabric of the good old USA. Homos should never and I mean never be included in the same category and afro Americans, Jews, Indians, Mexicans, etc. If I were a minority of any color I would be greatly offended by homosexuals trying to get on the bandwagon with real minorities so they can be treated as minorities. They are counterfeit minorities I make no apology. I do not hate them, but I hate what they do, and what damage they can do to my children, country, and fellowman. Folks you cannot clean up a sinful lifestyle and call it good.
Reply -
0%
markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Nowadays, bigotry means to utter any uncomplimentary truth about the powerful. The only difference between the Manson Family religion and mainstream religion is numbers. Charles Manson lacks a large following, so he is just a serial muderer, unlike heroes, such as David Ben-Gurion, Menachem Begin, Pope Paul VI and George W. Bush.
Reply -
0%
kedirian1 year, 5 months ago
Man starts out in Life being ignorant; then, God and/or parents willing, Man gets educated.
As an educated person Man applies that education in making/expressing choices, and that's when Man is often accused of "discrimination" [from the latin 'discriminare' - to separate, distribute].
There is a clear difference between 'criticizing' and 'discriminating'....Not knowing this differene has given "political correctness" such a bad name!
Reply-
0%
Silverghost1 year, 5 months ago
And yet, Kedirian, it is acceptable, even preferable, to have discriminating tastes. LOL
I think that the distinction may be better made between bigotry, which is unreasonable criticism, & being biased, possibly with good reason, making an effort to be discriminating against the wrong & for the right. -Rev. S
Reply
-
-
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
Well Weston, I was on your side for about two sentences. Right up until you got to the phrase "Millitant Homos" Then your comment just became complete philosophical garbage. You accuse homosexuality of tearing apart the foundation of society itself, I grant that you are entitled to your own opinion of homosexuality but when you bring society into the mix you need to provide proof (verifiable hold up in a court of law proof and not just heresay) that homosexuality has indeed done what you say it has done.
Next you implied that ALL minority races would be offended by the inclusion of the GLBT community as a minority group. First off since I imagine you are speaking from a single racial standpoint (ie, you are yourself white/AA/Asian/Hispanic/Etc) you really have no room to talk because you have virtually no concept of the opposing ethnicity or their culture (pop culture perhaps, but not the real thing).
Reply-
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
Continued--
I'm not being racist I'm being factual, you don't understand their culture so you cannot make an educated guess as to whether or not they would actually care. Let's see, third: the GLBT community crosses racial lines so I imagine that they exist in every culture that exists. This phrase is easily provable because save for the tiny races living on deserted islands I'm fairly sure we know and have met at least one GLBT member from each race..but alas I digress.
Minority by definition means small group, GLBT makes up less than 25% of the world population, last time I checked not only was 25% a REALLY bad grade on a test but was definately a small number...hence minority. Since when do other races get to decide when a group of people are in the minority, it's by numbers not by decision.
Reply -
0%
weston1631 year, 5 months ago
"I grant that you are entitled to your own opinion of homosexuality but when you bring society into the mix you need to provide proof (verifiable hold up in a court of law proof and not just heresay) that homosexuality has indeed done what you say it has done." Lets see now is ltachirumon making rules for me to follow? Heresy you say? Howls this! Aids was started and spread my male homosexuals because of their very anatomy of their perverted ways of having sex..do I need to get graphic? It is a biological fact that feces carry a lot of bad germs....get my drift? Then some of these men were bi sexual and spread their deadly disease to heterosexuals. I would say that is affecting society wouldn't you? God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of the homosexual sin that was rampant in that city. My Bible tells me it is perverted and sin. What Bible are you reading? Probably none.
Reply
-
-
0%
markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Do any of you opponents of anti-Semitism object to "Radio Host Tears Into 'Offended' Muslim," at http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2007/08/11/... Are you willing to mention rabid Israeli racists, including Rabbi Kook the Elder and Baruch Goldstein and his admirers? http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/14/...
Reply-
-
0%
markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Walden3,
Is that your idea of a good point? I thought of writing crusaders against anti-Semitism, but it was a poor choice of words.
Reply -
-
-
0%
ameliog1 year, 5 months ago
Spadecaller may start a propeller mea culpa movement. 2008 is off to an interesting start!
Also, the new propellertalk page - I think I like it. However, if I have to post a story every time I misinterpret someone around here, then ban me now because I won't have time to write all of them. :)
Reply-
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
I apologize sincerely to all who see the argument escalate beyond a single column, I have blocked Winston and cannot reply to him normally. Bible is not law, do not quote me Bible verses or anything out of the Bible and tell me it counts as proof. I told you it counts as your belief, nothing more. Sodom and Gammorah were cities according to the Bible destroyed by God, prove to me with historical records that these cities not only both existed but were destroyed by God and not by natural disaster.
Next let me say that Homosexuals were not the cause of AIDS. Tribesman eating foods tainted by ape feces were. You then spread the disease by your arrogant raping of their women, and don't even deny it literature is full of people talking about it. Heart of Darkness by Conrad or Rudyard Kipling.
Finally let me say I am a Christian and a Catholic by name but what bigots like you do disgusts me. I'm all for equality but you cross a line, also you can't seem to debate without using your Bible
Reply -
-
-
0%
markoller1 year, 5 months ago
I have a question for anyone who labels opponents of Zionism, and Israel, anti-Semitic Nazis. Do you care about millions of Jews who were killed, just as much by Zionists, as Nazis? http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/minhametzardomb.htm http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/tenquestions.htm
Reply-
0%
walden31 year, 5 months ago
Tell me what name did your parents have for Jews growing up?
Did your parents think that Jews were cheap, big nosed or made funny smelling food?
Growing up did you have any Jewish friends? Did your parents?
Reply
-
-
-
0%
weston1631 year, 5 months ago
"Apparantly my last post did not send so I'm going to say it again. These are the logical arguments you have comitted Weston.
Fallacy of Converse Accident
Ad Ignorantiam
Ad verecundiam
Ad hominem
Ad misericordiam
non sequitur a.k.a. Red herring
Fallacy of False Cause "
Oh ouch oh my the words are breaking my bones hja h ah ha h ha ha ha . Personally I don't give flip about you or your stupid words as if they mean anything. You have attached my family and twisted words there is no more respect for you and you have shown me and others on here what homos are capable of. Thanks for the proof!!
Reply -
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
And by the way Weston about your kids and crossing the line? Hurts doesn't it. Makes you feel awful offended and scared don't it. Now take those feelings and realize that's what people like you instill in the GLBT community on a daily basis.
Furthermore, you have given me a warning to never include your kiddos in an argument again. I give you a warning too, never include NAMBLA in an argument against the GLBT. You say they are tied to us so they are fair game. I say your kids are tied to you so they're fair game too, capisci?
Reply
-
-
0%
Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
Bigotry is open to interpretation. What's bigotry to one person can be seen as enlightenment by another. If you have a belief and someone is opposed to it, does that make the person opposed to what you believe to be a bigot? What if that person turns out to be right about what he says about your faith being a pile of steaming BS? Does that mean you were a bigot for NOT heeding his attacks on your faith? Was Cortez in the wrong for being appauled by Aztecs believing carved out, beating hearts would make the sun rise, or, crying Aztec children going to an altar for sacrifice would cause rain for crops as they their tears pleased a dwarfish rain god? In otherwords, what is bigotry to one, can be seen as constructive argument by another. Too bad, though, such change of belief for the Aztec came at the point of a Spanish sword and small-pox.
Reply-
0%
Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
Spadecaller
"Though I am particularly "sensitive" to anti-Semitism, anyone who know mw know that I am opposed to bigotry in all its manifestatiosn. I see them all demonstrated from time to time.
Atheists, Homosexuals, gender, and race are all targets by some people in both the virtual world and on Propeller. To deny, dismiss, or deflect the conversation by personal attacks has been a common practice by some individuals on propeller. Have you not seen this too?"
Why are you so blind to your own bigotry? You are bigoted against Christians. Your posts and two stories you created and posted here demonstrate that.
How did this get put here. Propeller is at it again.
Reply
-
-
0%
truthiness1 year, 5 months ago
You cannot control people's actions. If this is to be a community which endorses free expression then you must accept that some expressions will offend you. At which point you can either ignore them or respond. to respond with venom will perpetuate the cycle of hostility. to respond with intellectual debate will either ameliorate the issue or accomplish nothing. to ignore will prevent you from becoming irritated by it.
it is unlikely that any comment made on propellor will significantly affect the real world. the haters will not spread hate, the intellects will not enlighten the haters.
however, how you conduct yourself at any time, affects you greatly. if you allow yourself to become venomous in response to hate, you will be filled with the destructive power of hate.
if you attempt to control others (i.e. when SC contacts my friends and tells them not to vote for my stories) you will find yourself filled with the frustration of your inabilty to do so. which will turn to anger.
Reply-
0%
truthiness1 year, 5 months ago
if, however, you forgive people their weaknesses and offer understanding and intellectual discussion you will find that you are not encumbered by the negative emotions which accomplish only personal suffering.
perhaps spade, you should forgive the fool his foolishness. offer him the opportunity to understand his error. and if he still insists on hate, then shun him so that his personal suffering can not be spread to you.
Peace be with you all.
Reply
-
-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Excuse me for posting jovial's previous comment. but I want to respond directly to it and this propeller machine has been placeing my comments in different places...
jovial said:
"The reason they attack you is because you're good. They probe for your weakness and see how they can keep you quiet or shut you up. They want to win this political situation. You have a voice of reason that people listen to. That scares them. So don't run off in despair when you are attacked. That's just a signal that what you set out to do is working. Stay in their face. "I'd rather die on my feet, than keep living on my knees" --James Brown"
Reply-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Thanks so much for your commments and support jovial. I know you are sincere. I can't get on me knees anymore anyway, they've been to beat up over the years. With people like you around standing up to hatred and bigotry is not so bad. I'm glad you are a member on propeller. I always look forward to reading your comments and knowing you are on line.
Reply
-
-
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
Just to clarify something from above, I'm not against the GPP per se. I'm against having to flaunt something that's supposed to be beautiful and done in private to make a point to idiotic phobes who can't comprehend change, but I see the reason why we have to do it.
Reply -
0%
augustine9741 year, 5 months ago
I'm lucky., I don't post much. What I do post only makes Republicans mad so I don't have to read my messages.;-)
Reply -
palamaComment removed: User banned.
-
0%
macemare1 year, 5 months ago
AS I LOOK BACK AT ISREAL ACTIONS--HIND SIGHT BEING WHAT IT IS...THEY ( ISREAL) SHOULD HAVE RAN THE PALS INTO THE SEA FIFTY YEARS AGO...NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED.AND--THEY WILL NOT CARE NOW..THE PALS ARE JUST KID KILLERS, AND BUTCHERS, CHILD MURDERERS...I SEE NO REDEEMING VALUES OF THE PALS...
Reply-
0%
zimm1 year, 5 months ago
Notwithstanding your negative generalization of the Palestinians (which I do not buy), you do make the point that Israel could have used it's overwhelming superior force to absolutely wipe out the Palestinians and effectively stop the terror attacks.
It is a testament to Israel's high ethical standards that she has consistently resisted the temptation to do this... though there may come a saturation point when Israel can't take any more of the unceasing rocket attacks on her cities that are purposely directed at Israeli civilians.
Imagine what the USA would have done by now if thousands of rockets and terror attacks had been launched against us here... Our citizens would have demanded a swift and sweeping response. Israel, on the other hand, bends over backwards to avoid making things worse for the Palestinians.
Reply
-
-
0%
cushi1 year, 5 months ago
Well Spade, my ancestry is African, Indian and Jew...so I sometimes feel like I've got 3 strikes against me! lol Seriously, though, prejudice is an ugly, invasive, destructive psycho-social disease that we are all infected with to some degree. Sadly, we are not on the same page on acknowledging that we have it, let alone embarking on vigorous efforts to treat it.
Reply -
-
-
-
0%
zimm1 year, 5 months ago
Like MOST American Jews?
Got any statistics to back up that incredible claim? Or is it just baseless rhetoric?
BTW, thanks to the Mossad and the Israeli Shin Bet, most terror attacks in Israel are stopped before they ever get put into action (approximately 1 out of ten get through according to Israeli reports). Just for the tremendous saving of human lives alone, maybe you ought to rethink your position.
Reply
-
-
0%
BB641 year, 5 months ago
There is a ton of bigotry on Propeller. I've noticed and received tons of Anti-Israel comments. Does the claims made here actually surprise anyone here?
Reply -
ML2007Comment removed: User banned.
-
0%
Cityslicker1 year, 5 months ago
Spadecaller Rally .
Spadecaller for President !
I still find your Propeller name offensive and racist .
Jesse Jackson , where are you bro ?
Reply -
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
The recent submission of a blatantly anti-Semitic article entitled, "A Jewish Defector Warns America," should have been immediately removed for its vile and inflammatory content directed at Jews -- and in particular, Ashkenazi Jews, from Europe.
Despite the fact that I am from the Ashkenazi background, most any Jew would be disturbed and rightfully annoyed with Propeller's "seeming: indifference and its failure to respond accordingly. Only later, did I learn, that there was no one available last weekend willing or able to make that decision. I believe that is a flaw in the system.
Despite registering reports of inflammatory content, Propeller did nothing until a full day of posting had transpired. W
hile there were many in opposition to this flagrant breach of ethics and prescribed guidelines, I must challenge the motive for permitting content of this nature to last that long under any circumstances.
continued
Reply-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
I find it almost humorous in a bizarre way that when a You Tube video of comedian Lewis Black was submitted, it was immediately pulled because it contained some four-letter Anglo-Saxon words. Where's the sanity in this kind of reasoning? A harmless comedian gets the ax, but Nazi propaganda targeting Jews almost makes front page!
Of course, I made my position clear to the community and proceeded to receive tremendous support, for the most part.
For all those who stood up in opposition during this distressing moment, please accept my appreciation. Yet,in addition to your overwhelming support there were some personal messages that I will forgo repeating. And there were some who insisted on remainubg silent.
Just a reminder...
Reply -
0%
disraeli1 year, 5 months ago
I remember the "story" you are referencing. I don't see how sending it to the cyber shredder helps deal with bigotry at all. I think that nonsense such as that article should be challenged and refuted, not ignored.
I don't think that any amount of fact or logic will change the minds of those who truly believe such garbage, however to leave such spew unchallenged helps it spread, especially to those who may be ignorant of the history.
Reply
-
-
-
0%
Candida1 year, 5 months ago
I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway. It's offensive, insensitive, and it's prejudice, but it's not unique to Jews. It's the same thing as saying: "Have your girl call mine," when talking about secretaries.
Reply
-
-
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
Bkumm
Are you going to ignore this question?
You have asked me many questions on this thread; I have one for you-- and it relates to our topic.
What would you say about someone when referring to their lawyers in a phone conversation remarked: "Have your Jew call mine"?
Reply -
0%
markoller1 year, 5 months ago
The hypocrisy of all of you bigotry accusing nazis stinks to high heaven. It makes me long for the intellectual honesty of Stalin.
Reply -
0%
Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
jovial
Thanks for the link; I've read that before. The good news is that I have seen people (those willing to) change positively. (They are not usually the ones that I select...LOL).
But to a large extent,altruism towards the human race as a whole has been replaced with a dog-at-og attitude of smaller group loyalties.
However, I believe more in the social disease concept of racism and bigotry. It is spread among us through contact. Recovery from it can be spread too I've seen both phenomenons.
Reply -
-
0%
Itachirumon1 year, 5 months ago
Yes spade, this is a terrific article. Big big plus. I've wholeheartedly enjoyed it, especially the rousing debate with Weston..until he got violent...I guess some people just can't understand fallacy eh? Ad Ignorantiam is fun.
Reply
-
Add a Comment
Sign In With Your Propeller Account
Please keep your comments relevant to this story.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.