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Coping with Bigotry on Propeller »
Posted by: Spadecaller 1 year, 10 months agoSpadecaller's perspectives on bigotry and anti-Semitic attacks on Propeller and the challenges they present to all of us. How well do we cope? Do we sometimes react poorly? When we blame others unfairly, do we amend our mistakes? Do we abstain from debate to avoid verbal assault? Do we stand by those who are attacked unfairly?
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Spadecaller
Welcome to my profile. About me: I'm an artist of several kinds; from bull to painting. I don't spare too many words. Most ...
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Comments: 561
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 11:54 a.m."What it is with you people that you have to be so sensitive?" A friendly acquaintance replied in a personal message in response to one of my recent comments about a story that was quite inflammatory against Jews. Was the questioner seriously looking for an answer? What do you think? Do the words, "you people" signify that I belong to a group of people known as the Jews, who are all too sensitive about matters of ethnic bigotry, and who should all shut up? Does the question dismiss the notion that there should be reason for some Jews to feel especially "sensitized" to anti-Semitic conduct?
Many insist that anti-Semitism is a myth; that resentment toward the Jews is a justified. Many people exert great effort in promoting proof that the holocaust never occurred. "The Jews are loud mouth troublemakers." Have you witnessed these stereotypes? Do you find yourself sometimes being lured into believing them?
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Bkumm
Jan. 29, 2008, 12:10 p.m.I must be clear. This submission is about racism and bigotry on Propeller. It is not about a particular form of racism or bigotry, but about this behavior in all of its forms.
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walden3
Jan. 29, 2008, 1 p.m.SC writes, "Unfortunately, I am not overly endowed..."
As if any of us care. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Mdiar
Jan. 29, 2008, 1 p.m.That was great Spade. I am guilty of much the same thing when I am accused of being a neo-conservative plant for believing Barack Obama is electable or for stating that the Republicans obviously believed Bush to be the best candidate or they'd have not voted for him, and then people misinterpreting that to think that I said Bush was best. I always try to apologize on the thread when I feel I've over-reacted. I suppose I'm just to young and over-react quite easily still. Thanks for the invite and your right, Propeller does a great job of banning those who step over the line or hiding offensive comments. It could do better but there are far worse sites.
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walden3
Jan. 29, 2008, 1:03 p.m.You know the truth is that nothing anyone else can write can hurt us if we don't allow it to. Why give hateful people that power. Why do we allow strangers on the Internet who don't know us to hurt us personally? I'm guilty of it too and then I strike back. And nothing is gained. We're no closer to adopting the other's way of thinking or changing opinions.
Maybe I feel the need to correct people or be right about something. I don't let things go.
I also think it's the nature of the format. This type of format amplifies our differences and minimizes our similarities.
It's also easier to attack over the Internet then it is face to face.
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Shadowolf
Jan. 29, 2008, 1:53 p.m....the ONLY way I know of to reduce bigotry is ostricision...no, that does NOT mean stick your head in the sand...it means to refuse to associate with somebody insists upon ignoring decorum...
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joey-evans
Jan. 29, 2008, 2:15 p.m.I see overt racism on this site almost every day. Admittedly, our country has many problems that have not been addressed by the current administration and so the frustration many people feel comes out as outright hatred to those they believe as the problem. It is much easier to point a finger of blame and to direct all their venom than it is to look for a viable solution.
The one I see that is almost universal is that which pertains to the Illegal Immigrant problem facing our nation. Not to say that other targets are not important, because they are most certainly. It just seems to me that the Illegal problem is the one most discussed with hatred directed at the Brown Skinned people, who for the most part are simply trying to make life better for their families and themselves. Compassion for those who are less fortunate then ourselves often times is nonexistant and the tendency is to demonized those who are the least capable of defending/fighting back for themselves.
JOEY EVANS
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jovial
Jan. 29, 2008, 2:52 p.m.Taylor is accused of many atrocities in a small country in Africa called Liberia. Murder, rape, corruption, guns smuggling and blood diamonds, the abduction and use of child soldiers, alleged terrorism ties and prison escapes. He is black. Is it wrong to criticize him and his government for fear of being called a bigot?
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2sidestoeverything
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:32 p.m.Bigotry has been taught and passed from generation to generation. I look at it as an avoidance of looking at ourselves and our own short comings it is much easier to point the finger at a group of others then face our own issues. Many cultures don't even want to look at our own horrendous past but tend to judge others for theirs. Hopefully the younger generations will be more color, gender, and religion blind and know that we are all different and have different views on life and learn to live together with our differences.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:34 p.m.2sidestoeverything
Thanks for your valuable contribution!
It is so difficult to see ourselves the way we really are without fear or favor, isn't it?
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:41 p.m.Some people have been repeatedly criticized for being insensitve to bigotry, whether it be anti-Semitism or racism.
Perhaps they have a need to minimize and deny those of us who are more keenly aware of its devastating effects, as they may hope to absolve themselves from the underlying burden of guilt by blaming those of us for being "too sensitive."
I wonder what the world would be better off with; more sensitivity about the issues of bigotry or more insensitivity?
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aceofspades1
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:45 p.m."So those of us who have experienced a disportionate(sp) amount of bigotry "
SC are you saying that as a personal statement or a collective statement?
If it is a collective statement I don't need someone such as you speaking for me, a Jew.
If it is a personal statement, I would question how much bigotry you have experienced in your daily life & how it has directly effected you. From your postings I am led to the conclusion that you generate much of this bigotry you feel in your own mind.
My eyes are wide open, so I am not looking with a blind eye, but I have travelled far & have experienced almost no anti-semitism that directly affected me, not that I haven't seen it expresseed many times but without personal consequence.
I have felt more prejudice directed against me for being fat & left handed,than because of my heritage.
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Mdiar
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:48 p.m.Bigotry, I feel, will never go away. Its natural in many ways to identify with a group, it is human nature. But as time goes on we are seeing less and less of an emphasis on identifying with that group and only that group. Today's youth are more then willing to judge a person based on what they say and how they act more then on skin color. Unfortunately, there is still that small group who are bigoted. As time goes on we will see fewer bigots but they will grow more vocal. Membership in hate groups are on the rise I believe, but I am willing to bet money that the overall number of bigoted people is on a decline.
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jordan11
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:52 p.m.Coping with bigotry>>>>>>
That's a dilemma each person has to figure out for themselves. Some will give it another voice. Some will become angry. Some will take it personally. Some will offer facts. Some will offer their perspective. Through it all, hopefully, there will be something for everyone to learn from. Even the bigot.
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Radiofreeeuropa
Jan. 29, 2008, 3:56 p.m.I believe the community at large is appalled at bigotry and racism. I believe a majority here are reasonable decent people. We do see hate in many hues and intensities appear in threads and stories daily as well though. As SC has pointed out there is less of this here on Propeller than other sites.
In this story, The question is how do we deal with it?
There is the terms of use that spell out pretty clearly that denigrating an individual or group on the basis of sex, religion or race is not tolerated. These lines may seem obvious to some while others see them in different places. I sincerely think that talking about bigotry is a good thing.
Truth has a way of inserting itself where lies take an awful lot of loud insistence to continue. Speaking out against all bigotry keeps us thinking about it. It does exist, uncomfortable as it may be to talk about, it is a conversation that is needed.
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oldgringo
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:11 p.m.Radiofreeeuropa wrote:
"There is the terms of use that spell out pretty clearly that denigrating an individual or group on the basis of sex, religion or race is not tolerated. These lines may seem obvious to some while others see them in different places. I sincerely think that talking about bigotry is a good thing."
I'm not very religious but I have noticed that many of you spend a lot of time here on Propeller denigrating Christians. Spadecaller, while I agree with the content, many of your posts against Right-wing fundies might be construed as Christian-bashing. Can't you see how some might see you as bigoted?
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walden3
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:34 p.m.The other one that gets me is when some writes or posts something like, "a real XYZ person would feel this way" or "here's a real XYZ how do you reconcile that with the way you feel" and "you're a fake XYZ because..."
No one person speaks for a group. The only person any of us are experts on is themselves.
Also, when someone just posts and posts and posts, never answers questions and isn't interested in dialogue just in basically ranting.
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walden3
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:37 p.m.Jovial and Bkumm Hyper has arrived. Please check out Hyper's posts on the earlier page.
Now what is your opinion? Is it bigotry? Is it constructive? Is Hyper looking to change opinions, open to opinions or willing to dialogue?
Am I wrong to feel that Hyper hates Jews?
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rumple4skin
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:42 p.m.I particularly appreciate that Spade moderates his submissions and tries to keep the focus of discussion on target. I can always expect and even appreciate the much anticipated rant from hyperbola. Most (my opinion) comments generated from Spade's posts are measured, thoughtful, and appropriate. Thank you, Spade. Thanks to our contributors.
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canadianrancher57
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:58 p.m.I am a WASP or sort of, more Anglo-Celtic, so you can likely know the prejudice I was raised with, but I do know what it is to be on the recieving side of a prejudice. Where I was raised people hated First Nations people or American Indians, Blacks, Jews, Muslims, or just about everyone. My physical appearance in my younger days as well as the color of my skin and my attitude against society made many people question whether I was acually White or a First Nations person and was many times excluded from things and called many names. The one good thing from all of this was tolerance and acceptance of others. The thing that does bother me is when people say that it is wrong to question things.
I would like to answer the last question you asked in your first comment, my answer to that would have to be yes.
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RickyDawkins
Jan. 29, 2008, 5:55 p.m."Who decides what is racist?"
As the only truly impartial member of Netscape, this duty shall be mine. :)
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 6:16 p.m."stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." is the definition of bigotry.
Definition of the word "cope":
"to deal with and attempt to overcome problems and difficulties"
One of the main reasons it is difficult to cope with this problem is that some people spend more time proving what isn't bigotry, racist, or anti-Semitic, rather than dealing with what is. This is commonly known as "avoidance."
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walden3
Jan. 29, 2008, 6:22 p.m.How about the trouble that golf girl got into for saying that Tiger Woods would be lynched to reduce competition on the tour?
Then how come Obama gets a freeride for saying he'll be the judge of whether President Clinton is a "brother" by how he dances?
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weston163
Jan. 29, 2008, 6:23 p.m.I personally am against all forms of racism, but the word bigot is one that needs to be addressed. When I hear or am called a bigot just because my Bible tells me that homosexual lifestyle just happens to be a sin and is perverted then I am greatly offended! The word bigot is a word that militant homos have grabbed for their use against anyone who will not cave in and accept their lifestyle even when it is tearing apart the moral fabric of the good old USA. Homos should never and I mean never be included in the same category and afro Americans, Jews, Indians, Mexicans, etc. If I were a minority of any color I would be greatly offended by homosexuals trying to get on the bandwagon with real minorities so they can be treated as minorities. They are counterfeit minorities I make no apology. I do not hate them, but I hate what they do, and what damage they can do to my children, country, and fellowman. Folks you cannot clean up a sinful lifestyle and call it good.
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markoller
Jan. 29, 2008, 6:30 p.m.Nowadays, bigotry means to utter any uncomplimentary truth about the powerful. The only difference between the Manson Family religion and mainstream religion is numbers. Charles Manson lacks a large following, so he is just a serial muderer, unlike heroes, such as David Ben-Gurion, Menachem Begin, Pope Paul VI and George W. Bush.
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kedirian
Jan. 29, 2008, 6:59 p.m.Man starts out in Life being ignorant; then, God and/or parents willing, Man gets educated.
As an educated person Man applies that education in making/expressing choices, and that's when Man is often accused of "discrimination" [from the latin 'discriminare' - to separate, distribute].
There is a clear difference between 'criticizing' and 'discriminating'....Not knowing this differene has given "political correctness" such a bad name!
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Itachirumon
Jan. 29, 2008, 7:34 p.m.Well Weston, I was on your side for about two sentences. Right up until you got to the phrase "Millitant Homos" Then your comment just became complete philosophical garbage. You accuse homosexuality of tearing apart the foundation of society itself, I grant that you are entitled to your own opinion of homosexuality but when you bring society into the mix you need to provide proof (verifiable hold up in a court of law proof and not just heresay) that homosexuality has indeed done what you say it has done.
Next you implied that ALL minority races would be offended by the inclusion of the GLBT community as a minority group. First off since I imagine you are speaking from a single racial standpoint (ie, you are yourself white/AA/Asian/Hispanic/Etc) you really have no room to talk because you have virtually no concept of the opposing ethnicity or their culture (pop culture perhaps, but not the real thing).
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markoller
Jan. 29, 2008, 7:50 p.m.Do any of you opponents of anti-Semitism object to "Radio Host Tears Into 'Offended' Muslim," at http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2007/08/11/... Are you willing to mention rabid Israeli racists, including Rabbi Kook the Elder and Baruch Goldstein and his admirers? http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/01/14/...
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ameliog
Jan. 29, 2008, 7:53 p.m.Spadecaller may start a propeller mea culpa movement. 2008 is off to an interesting start!
Also, the new propellertalk page - I think I like it. However, if I have to post a story every time I misinterpret someone around here, then ban me now because I won't have time to write all of them. :)
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markoller
Jan. 29, 2008, 8:34 p.m.I have a question for anyone who labels opponents of Zionism, and Israel, anti-Semitic Nazis. Do you care about millions of Jews who were killed, just as much by Zionists, as Nazis? http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/minhametzardomb.htm http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/tenquestions.htm
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Itachirumon
Jan. 29, 2008, 9:13 p.m.Apparantly my last post did not send so I'm going to say it again. These are the logical arguments you have comitted Weston.
Fallacy of Converse Accident
Ad Ignorantiam
Ad verecundiam
Ad hominem
Ad misericordiam
non sequitur a.k.a. Red herring
Fallacy of False Cause
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Mutainia
Jan. 29, 2008, 9:26 p.m.Bigotry is open to interpretation. What's bigotry to one person can be seen as enlightenment by another. If you have a belief and someone is opposed to it, does that make the person opposed to what you believe to be a bigot? What if that person turns out to be right about what he says about your faith being a pile of steaming BS? Does that mean you were a bigot for NOT heeding his attacks on your faith? Was Cortez in the wrong for being appauled by Aztecs believing carved out, beating hearts would make the sun rise, or, crying Aztec children going to an altar for sacrifice would cause rain for crops as they their tears pleased a dwarfish rain god? In otherwords, what is bigotry to one, can be seen as constructive argument by another. Too bad, though, such change of belief for the Aztec came at the point of a Spanish sword and small-pox.
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truthiness
Jan. 29, 2008, 9:49 p.m.You cannot control people's actions. If this is to be a community which endorses free expression then you must accept that some expressions will offend you. At which point you can either ignore them or respond. to respond with venom will perpetuate the cycle of hostility. to respond with intellectual debate will either ameliorate the issue or accomplish nothing. to ignore will prevent you from becoming irritated by it.
it is unlikely that any comment made on propellor will significantly affect the real world. the haters will not spread hate, the intellects will not enlighten the haters.
however, how you conduct yourself at any time, affects you greatly. if you allow yourself to become venomous in response to hate, you will be filled with the destructive power of hate.
if you attempt to control others (i.e. when SC contacts my friends and tells them not to vote for my stories) you will find yourself filled with the frustration of your inabilty to do so. which will turn to anger.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 11:03 p.m.Excuse me for posting jovial's previous comment. but I want to respond directly to it and this propeller machine has been placeing my comments in different places...
jovial said:
"The reason they attack you is because you're good. They probe for your weakness and see how they can keep you quiet or shut you up. They want to win this political situation. You have a voice of reason that people listen to. That scares them. So don't run off in despair when you are attacked. That's just a signal that what you set out to do is working. Stay in their face. "I'd rather die on my feet, than keep living on my knees" --James Brown"
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Itachirumon
Jan. 30, 2008, 12:28 a.m.Just to clarify something from above, I'm not against the GPP per se. I'm against having to flaunt something that's supposed to be beautiful and done in private to make a point to idiotic phobes who can't comprehend change, but I see the reason why we have to do it.
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augustine974
Jan. 30, 2008, 1:54 a.m.I'm lucky., I don't post much. What I do post only makes Republicans mad so I don't have to read my messages.;-)
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palamaComment has been removed: Retracted by user
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macemare
Jan. 30, 2008, 7:09 a.m.AS I LOOK BACK AT ISREAL ACTIONS--HIND SIGHT BEING WHAT IT IS...THEY ( ISREAL) SHOULD HAVE RAN THE PALS INTO THE SEA FIFTY YEARS AGO...NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED.AND--THEY WILL NOT CARE NOW..THE PALS ARE JUST KID KILLERS, AND BUTCHERS, CHILD MURDERERS...I SEE NO REDEEMING VALUES OF THE PALS...
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cushi
Jan. 30, 2008, 7:50 a.m.Well Spade, my ancestry is African, Indian and Jew...so I sometimes feel like I've got 3 strikes against me! lol Seriously, though, prejudice is an ugly, invasive, destructive psycho-social disease that we are all infected with to some degree. Sadly, we are not on the same page on acknowledging that we have it, let alone embarking on vigorous efforts to treat it.
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crespi
Jan. 30, 2008, 10:45 a.m.I LIKE most American Jews.
I don't trust Israel's MOSSAD one tiny bit.
They are just as dirty as our own CIA.
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BB64
Jan. 30, 2008, 11:23 a.m.There is a ton of bigotry on Propeller. I've noticed and received tons of Anti-Israel comments. Does the claims made here actually surprise anyone here?
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ML2007Comment has been removed: Retracted by user
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Cityslicker
Jan. 30, 2008, 12:02 p.m.Spadecaller Rally .
Spadecaller for President !
I still find your Propeller name offensive and racist .
Jesse Jackson , where are you bro ?
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Spadecaller
Jan. 30, 2008, 12:03 p.m.The recent submission of a blatantly anti-Semitic article entitled, "A Jewish Defector Warns America," should have been immediately removed for its vile and inflammatory content directed at Jews -- and in particular, Ashkenazi Jews, from Europe.
Despite the fact that I am from the Ashkenazi background, most any Jew would be disturbed and rightfully annoyed with Propeller's "seeming: indifference and its failure to respond accordingly. Only later, did I learn, that there was no one available last weekend willing or able to make that decision. I believe that is a flaw in the system.
Despite registering reports of inflammatory content, Propeller did nothing until a full day of posting had transpired. W
hile there were many in opposition to this flagrant breach of ethics and prescribed guidelines, I must challenge the motive for permitting content of this nature to last that long under any circumstances.
continued
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Spadecaller
Jan. 30, 2008, 12:14 p.m.Bkumm
You have asked me many questions on this thread; I have one for you-- and it relates to our topic.
What would you say about someone when referring to their lawyers in a phone conversation remarked: "Have your Jew call mine"?
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Spadecaller
Jan. 30, 2008, 12:51 p.m.Bkumm
Are you going to ignore this question?
You have asked me many questions on this thread; I have one for you-- and it relates to our topic.
What would you say about someone when referring to their lawyers in a phone conversation remarked: "Have your Jew call mine"?
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markoller
Jan. 31, 2008, 4:02 a.m.The hypocrisy of all of you bigotry accusing nazis stinks to high heaven. It makes me long for the intellectual honesty of Stalin.
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Spadecaller
Jan. 29, 2008, 4:18 p.m.jovial
Thanks for the link; I've read that before. The good news is that I have seen people (those willing to) change positively. (They are not usually the ones that I select...LOL).
But to a large extent,altruism towards the human race as a whole has been replaced with a dog-at-og attitude of smaller group loyalties.
However, I believe more in the social disease concept of racism and bigotry. It is spread among us through contact. Recovery from it can be spread too I've seen both phenomenons.
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