The Strangulation of Gaza »
Posted By Aidenag 1 year, 5 months ago in NewsWhen Israel limited shipments of food into Gaza in 2006, a senior government adviser explained that "the idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet but not to make them die of hunger." By further restricting the supply of food to an already malnourished population, Israel has clearly decided to take its "diet" a step further.
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Aidenag
Photographer by day, news junkie by night. My main areas of interest are politics and the environment.
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Aidenag1 year, 5 months ago
I really cannot understand how the world is allowing this to happen. Yes, Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks and suicide bombers. But this is by no standards that. It in fact has many similarities to the Warsaw Ghetto in its early years. Not saying its the same thing, but nobody can deny the many things the two have in common...
Wall off a civilian population based on it's culture or race that is different from your own, Check. Include men, women and children of all ages, Check. Limit clean water and electricity, Check. Cut off proper food rations, and literally starve a population, Check. Lesson shipments of medical supplies, Check. Let Diseases pop up and spread, Check... Anything else im forgetting these have in common?
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cherev1 year, 5 months ago
"Anything else im forgetting these have in common?"
The Arabs of Gaza wanted to be led by terrorists committed to the destruction of the Jewish state and the extermination of the Jews. The Arabs of Gaza claimed this is part of their "state" and wanted the area to be "judenrein" (German for free of Jews).
Also, the civilian population wasn't walled off because of cultural or racial diffences but because of terrorism. Next, the population would not be starving (and I doubt that they are despite the reports of the liberal media) if they didn't spend most of their money on guns.
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tehranchik1 year, 5 months ago
I remember learning about the world standing by and watching this happen to another population of people not that many years ago.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> I remember learning about the world standing by and watching this happen to another population of people not that many years ago.
Apparently, you've forgotten what is happening RIGHT NOW, however.
You see, the Palestinian leadership in Gaza could and can end the suffering of their people any day. To do that they'll have to stop killing Israelis and ask for peace negotiations. Unfortunately, they prefer the current situation to continue repeatedly declaring that they'll NOT stop attacking Israel and that they'll NEVER recognize the right of Israel to exist.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
In addition, you've forgotten that the current Palestinian leadership was democratically elected by the vast majority of Gazans (this is to answer 'aidenag' about "1.5million people in Gaza want terrorism and to kill jews?"). You've also forgotten that the Palestinian leaders have the means and ways to bring weapons and explosives into Gaza making it clear that these weapons and explosives are more important to them than food and medicines.
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Yes, it happened to the Irish during the Great Potato Famine when the English let the ships full of grain sit in the harbors and rot rather than feed the "damned Irish scum".
Or did you not mean that particular incident?
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Perhaps you meant when the American government gave rotten rations to the American Indians during the forced transition to reservation life.
Or did you not mean that incident?
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
Or did you mean when the Soviet government drove tanks into Hungry and cut off supplies to the population?
No?
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
I know what it was! It was when the Khmer Rouge went on a rampage under Pol Pot and stood by and did nothing. That has to be it. What's that? No. Hmmmm???
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
I know now! It was when during the Rwandan genocide. That has to be it. No?
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
People need to remember (ALL people) that it isn't just their group that has been treated harshly. Many groups have been treated badly by a larger population.
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cowboygrandpa1 year, 5 months ago
I'm in a quandry. I love the Jewish people. But I cannot accept or tolerate the treatment of other human beings. In such a way as they were treated by the Germans.
This is not what Jesus would have us live like. Yes we must protect our families. We means all people.
This is where things get sticky. Each side of the argument claims they are doing that.
We as the world need to abolish genocide and war for the gains of countries and corporations.
This is not right whoever does it.
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cherev1 year, 5 months ago
"I'm in a quandry. I love the Jewish people."
Then maybe you shouldn't accept lies about them so easily.
"But I cannot accept or tolerate the treatment of other human beings. In such a way as they were treated by the Germans."
Are you that ignorant of the differences? How much do you really know about the treatment of the Jews and how real is this news about the Arabs? Don't forget - although they're "starving", they are still shelling the Israeli town of Sederot on a daily basis.
"We as the world need to abolish genocide and war for the gains of countries and corporations."
This is a war for the extermination of the Jewish people...as it always was.
"This is not right whoever does it."
If it is real, I think it is right. You think it is right for the Arabs to shoot at the Israelis and the Israelis should supply them with food, medicine, etc.? Should they also give them bullets and bombs?
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> I'm in a quandry. I love the Jewish people. But I cannot accept or tolerate the treatment of other human beings. In such a way as they were treated by the Germans.
Would you prefer the Palestinians in Gaza to be treated the same way the Germans were treated by the Americans? If you're not sure please recall that almost all of Germany was reduced to rubble and 20 Million Germans were killed. Again, would you prefer the Palestinians to be treated THAT way?
Just say so.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> Yes we must protect our families. We means all people.
> This is where things get sticky. Each side of the argument claims they are doing that.
Not really. Try to answer (honestly) the two questions below and you'll realize which one of these "two sides" is saying the truth and which one is not:
1. If tomorrow Israel will stop attacking Palestinians, will remove ALL settlements, ALL military bases, ALL checkposts and will withdraw to the cease fire lines of 1949... WILL THERE BE PEACE?
2. If tomorrow Palestinians will stop attacking Israelis and will ask for peace negotiations... WILL THERE BE PEACE?
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> "After feeling imprisoned for so long, it has been a psychological relief for Gazans to know that there is a way out," said John Ging, the local director of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). "But it does not resolve their crisis by any stretch of the imagination."
No, it does not. Negotiating a peace agreement, however, WILL resolve the crisis. Unfortunately, the authors of the article and the advocates of Hamas here and elsewhere are, apparently, convinced that the Palestinians are INCAPABLE TO LIVE IN PEACE. If it was not the case they would, probably, entertain such option.
Unlike 'aidenag', 'obaku', tehranchik' and others with similar views I'm sure that the Palestinian Arabs CAN BE convinced that living in peace is preferable to be killed at war. The problem is to explain it to them in terms they'll understand. Closing the doors into Israel serves just that purpose while saving a lot of Palestinian lives.
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hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
You could probably have peace tomorrow thinker. All you have to do is give Gazans back their property and homes (almost 80% of the population are refugees from zionist ethnic cleansing). What is it that makes you determined to continue the theft and suffering rather than opting for peace?
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Oh please! Don't pretend that you are interested in saving Palestinian lives. That is less credible than your Osama videos.
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Bkumm1 year, 5 months ago
I think what people are trying to say when they say that this is wrong, is that it's not going to help in the end, unless Israel is willing to wipe the Palestinians off the map.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> ...it's not going to help in the end, unless Israel is willing to wipe the Palestinians off the map.
Israel is willing to live in peace. If wiping the Palestinians off the map is the ONLY way to achieve peace then it should be done. As I've said I did not think that it was the case and that the Palestinians could be convinced to start willing peace, too. The question is HOW to convince them to do it. The history of human civilization tells us that there are two possible ways to end a war, either by convincing the enemy to ask for peace or by eliminating the enemy so there is no one left to ask for peace.
Israel was asking for peace since the first days of its independence. It's the Palestinians and other Arabs and Muslims who have to do the same.
Now, if you still believe that "this is not going to help in the end" go ahead and tell me what IS going to help.
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engineer1 year, 5 months ago
The Palestinians do not want peace. The 1.5 million ele3cted a terrorist organization bent on destroying Israel. that is Hamas's main purpose. If they cared about their people, Hams would change its outlook. If the Palestinians lay down their guns, there will be peace. If the Israelis lay down their guns, there will be a batch of dead Israelis. Israel has no choice but to do what it is doing unfortunately. Israel would rather live in peace. As Golda Meir said, "When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace.
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hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
Actually it is the zionists who do not want peace. Why else would they continue with their ethnic cleansing campaigns? The zionists could have peace tomorrow. All they have to do is allow the return of the millions of people whom they have ethnic cleansed.
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Hamas arose to fight the Israeli conquest of Southern Lebanon. This 'defensive' act lasted 20 years. Then Israel unleashed total devastation on Lebanon, in preparation for a new occupation. Again, Hamas drove the Israelis out.
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dexlovex21 year, 5 months ago
"Israel's squeeze is expressly intended to punish the entire population for the firing of those rockets by militants, which ordinary civilians are powerless to stop. "We will not allow them to lead a pleasant life," said Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert when Israel cut off fuel supplies on January 18, thereby plunging Gaza into darkness. "As far as I am concerned, all of Gaza's residents can walk and have no fuel for their cars."
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> "Israel's squeeze is expressly intended to punish the entire population for the firing of those rockets by militants, which ordinary civilians are powerless to stop.
This is not true. First, Israel does not have the means and authority to select the "good Palestinians" out of those who are "bad" and then punish only the "bad" ones.
Second, Israel does not have any intents to "punish" anyone but to protect Israeli citizens and Israeli territory.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
Finally, third, the "ordinary Palestinian citizens" do not have the luxury to be neutral expecting that no one will touch them. The very fact of them living in Gaza means that each one of them either supports the "militants" or opposes them. If the "ordinary citizens" support the "militants" they should be treated accordingly. If, however, they oppose the "militants" and are "powerless to stop" them then they should ask their Israeli neighbors for help.
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walden31 year, 5 months ago
It's terrible to see a group of people suffer so much and for so long. I'm not sure of the solution.
I believe in a two-state solution, the rights of Palestinians to self governance and the need for a peace broker other than the United States.
I also believe that the future of the Palestinians lay with the Palestinians themselves. How the react, what government they elect, who they choose to lead and what actions each of them choose to take.
I do disagree with the author comparing the numbers on each side who have died and somehow using those figures to establish that one side is more at fault then the other. Fewer Israelis have been killed, not due to a lack of effort by some Palestinians, but due to inferior weapons. If these few Palestinians had their way, I'm sure many more Israelis would be dead.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> I do disagree with the author comparing the numbers on each side who have died and somehow using those figures to establish that one side is more at fault then the other. Fewer Israelis have been killed, not due to a lack of effort by some Palestinians, but due to inferior weapons. If these few Palestinians had their way, I'm sure many more Israelis would be dead.
You're correct. During WWII many more Japanese were killed than Americans. This, however, does not change the fact that it were the Japanese who started the war and it were the Japanese who were responsible for the results.
I can only repeat what I've said many times: as long as the Palestinian leadership supported by the vast majority of Palestinian population insist that the wary should continue it will continue and the Palestinians will have what they're asking for.
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truthiness1 year, 5 months ago
this is horrible.
as jews they are violating there religious laws
as a nation they are violating international law
as humans they are violating morality
this has to stop. the fat that the palestinians are equally to blame for the continued escalation of the cycle of violence in no way excuses purposely starving a people. reprehensible. the silence of the US govt on this issue where we have so much influence is also reprehensible.
shame on everyone involved. the path to peace is long and arduous, but it requires a first step be made in the proper direction.
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mmrhe1 year, 5 months ago
How much of this kind of suffering will lead to further terrorist activity against the United States for it's support of Israel?
Let's not forget Thinker that many of Israel's leaders were members of terrorist organiizations themselves.
You say the Palestinians are asking for it by electing a terrorst organization.
Is that not hypocrisy?
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> Let's not forget Thinker that many of Israel's leaders were members of terrorist organizations themselves.
> You say the Palestinians are asking for it by electing a terrorst organization.
> Is that not hypocrisy?
I don't think so... unless, of course, you'll NAME these Israeli leaders who were or still are members of terrorist organiizations WHILE IN OFFICE. In addition, you're going to NAME the terrorist organizations these Israeli leaders were/are members of, aren't you? Finally, you're going to list the terrorist actions committed by these terrorist organizations you're going to name, correct?
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truthiness1 year, 5 months ago
The Israel-Palestine conflict provides an microcosm of the history of humanity as relates to war and peace. we all claim to want peace, yet we keep going to war. the wars we enter are always do to choices on both sides, that could have been chosen differently and thereby avoided war. but people choose based on pride and fear and a desire to exact control over the behavior of others.
in 1948 there were two states and a city state of Jerusalem... if they had been willing to share this situation would not exist.
once the wars started, fear perpetuated them.
now the wars are over, Israel has won, they have offered the palestinians a state more than once, but the palestinians want influence in Jerusalem, the Israelis wont give it.
Pride has prevented the palestinians from accepting a deal.
Pride has prevented the Israelis from returning Jerusalem to a city state (a fair compromise)
war continues and the suffering grows, foolish decisions, needless death.
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
"There can be no excuse for firing rockets at civilian targets, but Israel was squeezing Gaza long before the first of those primitive projectiles was cobbled together."
Right, they're just primitive projectiles cobbled together. Isreal should wait for them to be more lethal?
"The first fatal rocket attack took place four years ago; Israel has been occupying Gaza for four decades." Oh, so, LET the missiles fly, right? Sounds like OBL Jihadist logic. Well, I'm not surprised, poor Israel.
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hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
Orthodox Jews Condemn Zionist Atrocities in Gaza
Religion â;; A call of anguish for our brethren in Gaza and the entire Palestine
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/02/03/...
British Jews Condemn Gaza blockade
Do No Evil â;; A coalition of prominent Jewish activists and academics has taken out an paid advertisement in The Times this week calling for Israel to lift its economic blockade of the Gaza Strip and accusing the state of breaching international law.
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/02/03/...
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
If someone was shooting missiles at your house, and, you never knew when Iran or Syria would make that missile far more lethal to REALLY do damage to you and your family...well, which is worse, insinerating that person shooting missiles at your house with a mass of bombs, (which Israel could do to Gaza quite easilly) or, cutting off food and water until he (the Palestinian) thinks twice before using something deadlier? Personally, if I were in charge of Israel, I wouldn't kill OR starve the Palestinians at all, but, take it to the source of all this insanity...the Kabah, in Mecca, which is the Achilles' Heel of Islam.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> There's no reason good enough to starve people to death.
Of course not. A much better and fair way is to give these people a choice:
Either live in peace and enjoy its benefits or have a war and enjoy its consequences. The Palestinians did and do have this choice.
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pcknowledge1 year, 5 months ago
Yes I believe the Palestinians should dennounce the Hamas charter & stop suicide missions into Israel. But, anyone who's been to that part of the world, knows that wouldn't solve the problem. Israel's government would continue to try to expand their settlements. And then there is a problem with sharing natural resources. Our government (US) has helped Israel's government build pipelines into rivers that flow in the region. Thus, Israel has 4x more water then the Palestinians have. The IDF humiliates Palestinians at the checkpoints.
The Palestinians live in extreme poverty with the IDF breathing down their necks 24/7. The Israelis live in fear of rocket attacks etc & have build bunkers they can hide in.
There seems to be no power in this world that can stop the conflict in that part of the world. It's not only a conflict over religion. But also a fight for land & scarce resources.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> Yes I believe the Palestinians should dennounce the Hamas charter & stop suicide missions into Israel. But, anyone who's been to that part of the world, knows that wouldn't solve the problem. Israel's government would continue to try to expand their settlements.
I have to say that you're, probably, correct here. Israeli government would continue to try to expand their settlements in Gaza. Every single one... LOL!
On a more serious note let me assure you that there will be no more Israeli settlements, checkposts and even 'pipelines' in the territory of the (still non-existing) Palestinian State than there are in the territories of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.
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looker701 year, 5 months ago
the only thing you have to know Israel has the right to do what it wants when it wants where ever it wants as long as big brother is standing behind them there is nothing ever can do. the suffering of palestinians will continue thinker22 keeps saying protection of his people what about the protection of the palestinaian people. like the murders that took place in sabra,shatila,dhar yasin, and countless other war crimes to many to count that came through the hands of the jewish state.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> what about the protection of the palestinaian people.
I believe that it's the job of the Palestinian government to protect the Palestinian people. The absolutely best way to do it would be to negotiate a peace agreement and comply with its terms. If and when it will be done both Israelis and Palestinians will be able to live in peace, prosperity and security.
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hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
"I Have ... A Cunning Plan"
By Lawrence Of Cyberia
01/02/08 --- "Lawrence Of Cyberia" --- - "I have ... a cunning plan. It's as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.
The thing is, we want all this land, but we don't want those Arab people what live on it.
These days, you can't simply bundle people onto wagons and cart them away, you have to have a more positive policy that will sort of ... encourage ... people to leave. [1]
So ... how about if we pretend we want to get along with them, and start having talks about how we're all going to share the land. We could call it ... a peace process. But ... and this is the really cunning part ... we make sure the talks never actually succeed in resolving how to share the land equitably [2], and we keep taking over more and more of their land even while we're "negotiating" with them over it! [3]
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hyperbola1 year, 5 months ago
And all the time we're dragging out these endless negotiations about nothing in particular, we will be building great big walls and checkpoints around their towns to keep them locked in, moving our own people onto all the bits of land the Arabs can't access anymore. By the time people catch on to what we're doing, we will have declared all Arabs' productive land "abandoned", taken it for ourselves, and all their water supplies will be in our hands. They will be stuck in overcrowded, isolated, parched reservations. [4]
Of course they won't be very happy about this, in fact they might just be very angry indeed, and even the most placid of them might happily contemplate the possibility of sticking our collective head on a pike. But once they are stuck behind 25ft concrete walls, they won't be able to do anything about it. Their only choice will be to scurry around uselessly in their townships like bugs in a bottle [5], or to leave altogether, which would be even better.
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canadianrancher571 year, 5 months ago
I have sat and read many of these stories and have read many of the comments and at times I make comments and get my knuckes rapped for my lack of knowledge in this area. I have on occasion made reference to Ireland and have been told that this is different and is some ways it is but what I have noticed from the events, stories and comments is that far to many of us are looking the wrong direction. We are looking back at what has happened in this region and in doing so we are able to justify all actions. I am beginnig to feel no sympathy to either side in this mess. The comment on Ireland is something we should think about for if we look at what has happened there we will see that only when people look forward does change happen. It seems these stories at times are the same fight that is going on over in the mid East, because of or support for either side in a way we are encouraging more violence not less.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> The comment on Ireland is something we should think about...
Can you remind me if and when Ireland declared that it would fight until Britain is eliminated and all Bretons are dead? You can read in the Palestinian Charter as well as in the Hamas Charter that the struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and all Jews killed.
Regarding action items for the future... try to convince the Palestinians to change their minds, stop violence and ask for peace negotiations. Israel will not refuse.
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
If you need more reasons why Palestinian resistance is justified, read "Inside Scarred Minds." It is almost three years old, but the situation is getting worse.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/ddlewis....
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
Even more despicable than Israeli atrocities is the American press. See "Gaza Genocide and Media Lies," by Mary Sparrowdancer.
http://www.rense.com/general80/lies.htm
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Natureboy1 year, 5 months ago
Zionism=racism. Just that simple. When the Ashkenazim of Europe elected to drive people of their so called "promised land" they went down a road of racism and genocide, much like the one they claim they will never forget. Maybe they didn't forget. Maybe they just learned how to "do unto others."
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Georgia501 year, 5 months ago
Read the British White Papers. Great Britain, no friend of Israel's Jews, dispatched an officer to investigate reports of Jews stealing Arab land. He investigated and reported back to the Crown that he could find no evidence that Jews stole Arab land. All deals were consensual. Granted...the Jews took advantage of--and had far greater facility with--Western style laws put into effect by Great Britain. They traded to the disadvantage of the Arabs.
But the reality is they never stole land or drove the Arabs from their land. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
Hey, where'd everyone go? Man, you start showing why poor Israel is in the state it's in due Palestinian children being brain-washed into blind hatred (with the videos to prove it), and, the Jihadists of the Pen DIS-AP-PEAR!!! Well, I guess I'll have to do this more often. :)
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
All your video consisted of was a debate about whether the Koran believes in magic. The host of warned about all of the cyber attacks his website was subjected to, and how often the address needed to be changed, as if it was worth attacking.
For the uncensored truth about Israel, and American subservience to Israel, read "Welcome to Amerisralistan," by Chad Powers, and click the numerous links. http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/amerisrael.htm
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markoller1 year, 5 months ago
All of the cheerleaders for Israeli genocide are contributing to the genocide. The latest atrocities in Gaza are the result of decades of whitewashed lies about Israel.
In case anyone shouts, Jew hater, I must ask, do any of you care in the slightest about the Zionist opposition to any efforts to save European Jews from the gas chambers?
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
Could you explain how Zionist are in opposition to any efforts to save European Jews from the gas chambers? Sounds like you believe this is going on now, or, back then? IF you are saying it was back then, isn't this on the same level as you saying Bush and Cheney have a fat OBL robot in a closet that they pull out to keep the war on terror going? In otherwords, conspiracy theory created by those who believe in the concept of "dar al-harb" where "war is deception", thanks to surahs 3:28 and 16:106 which allow a Muslim, including Palestinian Muslims, to lie to the perceived infidel, no doubt, lie about those they feel are occupying Muslim land they feel needs to be in "dar al-Islam" (the house/abode of peace).
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> ...maybe they did not wish to see all of the British dead...
No, they did not.
> FRom what I remember they made a point of killing as many of them as possible and by using terrorist type activities...
I'm afraid that your memory betrays you. You see, the IRA declared IN ADVANCE that they were going to plant bombs and so did the Basques in Spain.
...and I do not recall IRA declaring about their plans to continue doing it until Britain was eliminated.
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mmrhe1 year, 5 months ago
Thinker
You sound more and more like an Israeli apologist. As if no other situation on the face of earth can be compared to what is going on there.
Are you willing to admit the Israeli's are at least partly to blame for this situation?
How do you respond to everything Hyperbola has put forth?
I think what we are begininng to see is a fundamental shift in the way many Americans view the Israeli government.From victim to instigator.
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
If they ARE starting to see Israel as the instigator, I think you can thank surahs 3:28 and 16:106, which give Muslims license to lie to those they perceive as infidels.
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Thinker221 year, 5 months ago
> Are you willing to admit the Israeli's are at least partly to blame for this situation?
I'll gladly admit each and every Israeli misdeed after you'll present evidence that this misdeed was actually committed.
> How do you respond to everything Hyperbola has put forth?
I ignore it. This is all Hyperbola has put forth is worth.
Further, somehow I've missed your post where you've replied to my request to NAME these Israeli leaders who were or still are members of terrorist organizations WHILE IN OFFICE. In addition, I've asked you to NAME the terrorist organizations these Israeli leaders were/are members of? Finally, I've asked you to list the terrorist actions committed by these terrorist organizations you were going to name.
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