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"I think there is adequate evidence that this kind of rhetoric was a not uncommon occurance...I am shocked that he sat through something so lacking in spiritually edifying content for 20 years."

Rev. Wright gave well over 1,000 sermons in twenty years. You have heard snippets of what, five? six? If you call that adequate evidence, I can see why you are so right wing.

You should save your shock and indignation and check out doggamit's link. I would be curious to hear what you have to say about it.

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MCARPENTRY:

"he has lied about it, just last week obama claimed he was not present during these tirades."

No, I don't think that's what Obama was saying at all. He was very careful with his language. Obama simply said that he was not present for those particular Jeremiah Wright soundbytes that are now endlessly looping the web. Was he present when Wright made other "controversial" statements, yes--he was just not present in the particular sermon that was videotaped and being aired repeatedly on the web.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/...

"Obama said that he was not present in the congregation when Mr. Wright made the various remarks at issue and that he strongly condemns them."

What follows this are several posts I made in another thread. I hope the OP NOT2NEEDY won't mind if I repost here, as I believe the points need to be reiterated. This is addressed to all members.

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While some of Wright's comments are inflammatory, it's disconcerting that so many feel as if they can summarize Wright's character from a few soundbytes. Jeremiah Wright is not the only one here guilty of uttering inflammatory comments in the heat of anger or passion, yet many are ready to condemn him as if they are faultless, and yet excuse others, like John McCain:

http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm

"McCain told reporters, 'I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.'"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259282,00.html

"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."

If we are to judge a man more by his actions than for his words, then why not examine the entire body of Wright's work? Isn't his service in the U.S. Marine Corps and Navy more indicative of Wright's character than these soundbytes? Aren't the decades dedicated to fighting poverty more indicative?

http://www.tucc.org/pastor.htm

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If not, then don't vote Wright for president. What is clear, however, is that Obama remained friends with Wright because they collaborated on a number of projects to help the poor when Obama was a community organizer. Obama has witnessed the good deeds Wright has accomplished, respects Wright for his ACTIONS, and likely believes these good deeds outweigh the incendiary soundbytes circling the web; but that doesn't mean Obama espouses all of Wright's beliefs.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/20/ameri...

"Obama had his pick of top law firms. He chose Miner's Chicago civil rights firm, where he represented community organizers, discrimination victims and black voters trying to force a redrawing of city ward boundaries. 'It's a real do-good firm,' says Fay Clayton. 'wasn't going to make as much money there as he would at a LaSalle Street firm or in New York, but money was never Barack's first priority anyway.'"

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Now many are trying to drive a wedge between Obama and Wright. I doubt most of you have accomplished NEARLY as much good as Wright has for his country (in the military) and his community (in his ministry). You may claim to know Jeremiah Wright, but the fact is that you don't know any more than the soundbytes. You don't know all of his good deeds which might possibly outweigh Wright's imperfections.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...

"The following were developed under Dr. Wright: assisted living facilities for senior citizens, day care for children, pastoral care and counseling, health care, ministries for persons living with HIV/AIDS, hospice training, prison ministry, scholarships for thousands of students to attend historically black colleges, youth ministries, tutorial and computer programs, a church library, domestic violence programs and scholarships and fellowships for women and men attending seminary."

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Furthermore, through some torturous logic, some believe Obama espouses everything Wright uttered, despite the fact that Obama is half-white himself and (unlike McCain) has NEVER been quoted uttering racist comments.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...

"The only relevant question is: are Obama's beliefs represented by the handful of video clips of the most incendiary of Wright's sermons? I can find no evidence that he is. Give me a speech or a sentence or an off-hand remark in the last twenty years in which Obama has said such a thing or reflected such a worldview and I will gladly post it."

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/729

"Sen. Obama has done nothing to indicate he is anti-American. In fact, his whole life is a testament to the American Dream."

It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Wright and Obama collaborated on community projects together, but have otherwise very different philosophies and temperaments.

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http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12532

"The smear machine is after Barack Obama. Not that this is surprising, or even anything new: they've been conducting a low-level hate campaign ever since he attained front-runner status, using the same guilt-by-association technique that they used against Ron Paul. The basic strategy is to make Obama answer for each and every one of Wright's pronouncements, no matter how wacky or lame-brained."

It doesn't occur to you that perhaps Obama was slow to distance himself from Wright because Obama actually knows Wright, has witnessed the tremendous amount of good Wright has done for those in need, and has decided that the lifetime of Wright's good deeds far outweighs the few inflammatory soundbytes circulating the web. It doesn't occur to you that a few soundbytes may not be sufficient to judge the entire body of Wright's life work. It doesn't occur to you that the picture painted by these soundbytes may be narrow in perspective.

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Finally, it's shocking that the SAME people, who defend Ann Coulter's hatred, are now the VERY SAME condemning Obama--not for his own racist comments, but for being too slow to distance himself from the comments made by another. Where was your outrage when:

1) Pat Robertson, who regularly spouts homophobic diatribes, endorsed Giuliani.

2) Jerry Falwell, who called 9/11 an act of divine punishment on homosexuals, endorsed Huckabee.

3) Ann Coulter, whose regular homophobic, bigoted, and antisemitic comments have made her a CELEBRITY on Fox News, defends and endorses Bush.

4) George Allen called Indian journalist S.R. Sidarth "macaca."

5) Mitt Romney and Tony Snow uttered the racially-charged term "tar baby."

6) Bob Jones III, who banned interracial dating at his school and calls Catholicism a "cult," endorsed Romney.

This false outrage reeks of hypocrisy and double standards.

I apologize in advance for the long post, but this needed to be articulated.

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You are correct. However B.O. has said that while away at HLS, he listened to tapes of the sermon.

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SLATE:

"if someone on a different race ever did anything bad to me,,,,, which they have,,,, does that give me the right to hate everyone in that race"

Once again your reductivist analogies oversimplify. There's a profound distinction between a single act of injustice towards you and SYSTEMIC, LEGISLATED injustice against an entire race of people. As to your analogy, it wouldn't give you the right to hate everyone in that race, but I would understand why you would hate the particular person who "did something bad to you."

Likewise, I don't necessarily condone, but I can understand why Wright would be angry at a government that sanctioned injustice and racism through legislation for so long.

A better analogy would be to compare Wright's suffering to other instances of state-supported discrimination. For example, do German Jews have a right to hate the Nazi party and Nazi-controlled German gov? I would understand why so many would. Would you?

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WOW so one hanging is ok but more isn't what do you mean my one incident or many to just me means nothing to you? It's cuz of the corlor of my skin isn't it" Come on fess up

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Why Droppy!!

How ken you say that?

Im more of a Christian than you are!

Iin fact, I believe im more of a Conservative than you are.

If you are a Christian, then you woundnt be callin everbody that disagress with you a 'liar', 'goebbels', and any of a numerous collection of insults I could find quite easily.

See?

You aint a Christian!

And you CAINT be a Conservative on accounta you support Bush 2. Even lotsa Conservatives on Propeller say he aint Conservative. (Course, we dont liek to admit that in front of libbies - it makes us look pretty ding dang stoopid for supportin him to the bitterest of ends).

No, you obviously dont believe in nuthin but hatin those who dont share your bitter, bitter, narrow, extremely small vision of America.

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Hey. If you've been screwed over, you've been screwed over. How else would you like him to describe it? He COULD have used more graphic & descriptive language.

So how can you condemn a whole congregation, or 1 man in the congregation, for EVERYTHING a preacher says? My church is so diverse, we could start our own congress. We have Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Anarchists, Corporatists, & more. The preacher's role is to guide us SPIRITUALLY, not politically. If he sees something the church deems morally wrong, then he should say something about it.

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That's the problem, these are just clips your hearing. You aren't even considering what events inspired these sermons. You don't have a complete picture. Only snippets. Did you listen to Obama's speech yesterday, or only the portions played by the likes of Rush and Anne Coulter? You want to talk about hate speech, there's two who have spewed plenty of it.

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For somebody who objects to such obscenities, you sure seem to remember a lot of 'em!

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I am a profane creature, silver-tongued tho I seem to be.

I am not the one to ask about obscenity.

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Teats can be said in the pulpit but not tXts.

Why? I have no clue except maybe for 'implied intent'.

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so your definition for his phrase makes more sense than mine because he said other things that don't make sense, so therefore the least sensible definition is applicable?

A Pastor who believes in Hell condemning himself to Hell.

I don't think you believe that, do you?

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Uh. Your WHITE preachers - Fallwell, idiot from 700 club, the guy that just endorsed McCain - all said that we brought 9/11 on ourselves. That includes the whites who are apparently going against God's words by being tolerant of others - women who want equal rights, gays who want equal protection under the law, and us heathen Democrats who want to keep the government out of our churches & our churches out of government. Last I saw, gays, women & democrats had a decent size white contingent. So I see the hate coming from these White men, but I don't see the condemnation of their words.

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My argument has nothing to do w/Obama. I'm talking about Wright's words.

And whether you or your family personally had anything to do w/discrimination, it was and is rampant. Just because you're not a racist doesn't mean it's not happening.

If you want to vote for Obama, feel free. Don't project Wright's views on him.

I agree w/many of the things Obama believes, many that Clinton does, and a few that McCain does. No where on the ballot will you see Wright's name.

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"Why should I feel rebuked - I didn't have anything to do with it and neither did my family."

do you support the Iraq war? if you do then you are definitely perpetrating the racist foreign policies of the US.

if you don't beleive the foreign policies of the US have a racist bent to them, well then, there's nothing I, or anyone, can do or say to help you.

because you're simply in denial.

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Maybe not then, I hope you aren't that old because you'd really be a sight to see....but you are perpetuating it now against Obama, holding him responsible for something he had nothing to do with and smearing him every chance you get. And you know it's wrong, which makes what you're doing even more hateful!

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Maybe not, but THAT much is VERY clear!

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