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Posted by: Goppy 1 year, 7 months ago
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
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You ken bet that we Conservatives woulda dug up something on any of them candidates.
Look, smearin candidates is what we Christian Conservatives do.
It dont matter that our candidate, (who we already rejected TWICE) has done nearly THE SAME THING!!
Actually, I think what John McCain did in pursuin an endorsement from John Hagee is far more worse than Obama belongin to one of the most mainstream black Christian churches in Chicago.
John McCain SOUGHT OUT an endorsement from THIS FELLOW!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdroHjMipCk
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Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive36 Replies
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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Locky,
What do actually know about Rev. Wright? Do you know more than a few video bites you've seen on YouTube?
Rev. Wright has been a constant defender of the poor and oppressed for 30 years on the south side of Chicago, one the most depressed and hopeless neighborhoods in America. His rhetoric is similar to the prophets Jeremiah and Hosea, who challenged the Jewish leaders of their days to turn away from GREED and POWER and instead to CARE for the POOR and the DESTITUTE. That is the msg that God has demanded from prophets in every age, including this one.
God bless Sen. Obama for NOT rejecting Rev. Wright. While some of Rev. Wright's oratory is overheated, his compassion is not misplaced.
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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anno, considering that Obama wants to be president, I think that he would have shown more influence in the church. He could have been a uniter, he could have led across barriers, but evidently he did nothing.
If he can't be a leader in his church, how can he be a leader of the house and senate and accomplish anything?
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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No, ANNODOMINI is correct, and it's telling that you dodged her question. "What do actually know about Rev. Wright? Do you know more than a few video bites you've seen on YouTube?"
If actions speak louder than words, then Rev. Jeremiah Wright's service to his country--both in the military and in his ministry--is far greater than most. His words may have been incendiary and I do not condone them, but I can understand why Wright would be angry. You would be too if you had served in the military to fight for America's freedoms, only to experience hypocritical acts of racism and prejudice upon his return.
If you still don't like Wright, then don't vote for him.
KLARISSA:
"If he can't be a leader in his church, how can he be a leader of the house and senate?"
Obama is not a pastor, and you conveniently neglect the bigoted conservative Christian pastors endorsing your own Republican candidates. Also the president is NOT the "leader of the house and senate."
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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So all this talk about Bush having so much power is just hot air?
And who cares who endorses whom - What does Obama himself believe in?
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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I can't actually speak for Sen. Obama, but from his words and actions, it appears that he believes:
* There is still injustice in America, but we can fight against it.
* Racial injustice in America has diminished over time.
* The war in Iraq was a terrible mistake.
* Selfishness and greed are some of the biggest problems in America today. (surprise!)
* Government should be transparent and accountable to the governed.
* The state governs best by including the most citizens rather than keeping out the most citizens.
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Searchbeam1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
When was the last time that you stood up in front of YOUR pastor and condemned him for something he said or did that you didn't like?
A Church is a house of worship, and the pastor is the one who runs it. S/He brings the message of God and delivers it to the congregation. The kind of activism you are proposing is not something that is practiced in today's churches. The last known confrontation was when Martin Luther challenged the brutal power of the Church, which resulted in the birth of the Protestant Church.
Most people who do not like the teachings of a particular church choose instead to walk away from it, like the Catholics are doing.
Barack Obama has always been someone who works with people to resolve serious issues. If you haven't noticed yet, his is not a confrontational style. He accomplishes his goals by talks and persuasion - what is needed most in these troubling times of hatred and toxic vendetta.
It is best to leave a person's religion alone.
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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ybd and searchbeam
Every church that I know of has a committee of elders, or the equivalent.
The elders usually hire and pay the preacher/minister.
Just like in any group, if you want to change it, you start at the bottom and work your way up to be part of the group that decides the direction of the church.
It would be very interesting, in Obama's church, to learn what was taught in the Sunday school classes.
Will the children of this church grow up to be like Wright??? Will they think that the reason they don't have a car or a TV or a home or are part of the drug culture is because of rich white men???
What kind of lessons have been taught in this church for the last twenty years, and if Obama disagreed, did he keep his children out of Sunday school?
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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What does Obama means when he says unity. What does he mean when he says hope? - does that mean that Wright is his ideal and that he hopes that we will learn to be that way too.
You will be outraged at my comments, but I feel that anytime anyone on here disapproves of Obama they are labeled a racist, when in fact it is questioning Obama's beliefs, not Wrights.
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JayGA1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
Please listen to Obama's speech on race. He is the first politician that I have ever heard who honestly acknowledged that both black and white people had legitimate grievances, and actually articulated valid examples of both. The standard approach is to deny the validity of one side of the discussion. I believe that Obama is a real conciliator who really wants to lead us to a new understanding.
This is a free country. You are welcome to disapprove of Obama, but it would be far preferable if you could identify policy reasons for doing so rather than distortions based on misleading sound bites. If you read the totality of some of Rev. Wright's sermons, you may find that you differ from him politically, and may not like some of his points, but you might be surprised that most of what he says actually makes sense and is not fundamentally hateful.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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KLARISSA:
"Every church that I know of has a committee of elders, or the equivalent."
Your perspective is limited. My church has no such committee, and I'm sure my church is not unique in this respect.
KLARISSA:
"Just like in any group, if you want to change it, you start at the bottom and work your way up"
No. Obama is NOT a minister. Religion is NOT his vocation. Obama met and remained friends with Wright because of the good DEEDS they accomplished together while Obama was a community organizer. Obama witnessed Wright's service firsthand as Obama was in the trenches with Wright fighting poverty and discrimination. You do NOT know Wright nearly as well as Obama, which only demonstrates how short on perspective your condemnation of Wright is.
KLARISSA:
"what was taught in the Sunday school classes."
I would say the same for Bob Hope, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, John Hagee etc. But of course, you don't see your own hypocrisy.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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KLARISSA:
"You will be outraged at my comments, but I feel that anytime anyone on here disapproves of Obama they are labeled a racist, when in fact it is questioning Obama's beliefs, not Wrights."
I'm less outraged by your disapproval of Obama, but more outraged by your blatant double standards. You "question Obama's beliefs" and condemn Obama (who has NEVER been under investigation for corruption and who has NEVER uttered a racist remark), yet you give a free pass to McCain who HAS been investigated for corruption (Keating 5) and HAS uttered racist remarks. Where's your righteous outrage?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm
"McCain told reporters, 'I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.'"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259282,00.html
"McCain used the term 'tar baby.' He said he hoped it wouldn't be viewed as a racial remark."
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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One problem -- McCain is NOT the only one seeking the endorsement of these conservative Christians. In fact, Pat Robertson endorsed Giuliani. Jerry Falwell endorsed Huckabee. Bob Jones endorsed Romney.
Also, all of these individuals endorsed GW Bush, and yet I don't hear a PEEP from you--all very telling of your double standard.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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Why don't you demand your own Republicans to "work their way from the bottom" to change Falwell's, Robertson's, Hope's, and Hagee's hate speech?
http://www.actupny.org/YELL/falwell.html
"FALWELL: Pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays, lesbians, the ACLU, and People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped 9/11 happen.
ROBERTSON: I totally concur."
PAT ROBERTSON:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080695
"The Antichrist is probably a Jew alive in Israel today."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals; the two things seem to go together."
"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist"
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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Jeremiah Wright has every right to be angry at a government who sent him overseas to fight for America's freedoms, but then denied him and other African Americans equal rights and freedoms upon his return home. I would think veterans like Wright deserve better than that from his own country.
When have YOU fought for your country's freedoms and then been denied these very freedoms yourself?
MORE PAT ROBERTSON:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200706270005
"If [Chavez] thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."
ANN COULTER:
http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_...
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee."
http://www.newsbusters.org/node/13791
"If I'm going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I'll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.'"
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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http://www-tech.mit.edu/V120/N13/col13veena.13c...
"GW Bush appeared at Bob Jones University, a non-accredited college known for being racist and anti-Catholic. Bob Jones University has had an official ban on interracial dating for many years. Its justification: 'We stand against the one-world government, against the coming world of anti-Christ, which is a one world system of blending of all differences, of blending of national differences, economic differences, church differences, into a big one ecumenical world.' BJU says it would prefer to keep the races separate."
Your oversimplistic approach belies your partisan double standard.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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Here is your Mike Huckabee DEFENDING Wright and Obama.
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...
"'[Y]ou can't hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do,' Huckabee says. 'Many times those were statements lifted out of the context of a larger sermon. Rev. Wright got caught up in the emotion of the moment. As easy as it is for those of us who are white to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!" I grew up in a very segregated South. And I think that you have to cut him some slack.'
Huckabee, who grew up in the segregated South, added that if he had experienced the kind of discrimination African Americans have in American history, he would probably have become bitter.
'Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment,' he said. 'And you have to just say, I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me.'"
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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so you brand me with far right preachers, whom I have never heard speak.
Talk about prejudice.
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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and you all who have assigned the worst of the worst to me, and all you do is evade basic questions about how Obama will govern.
Hope, faith, and charity, motherhood (grandmotherhood), apple pie, unity, change.
Wonderful words, religious words.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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KLARISSA:
"so you brand me with far right preachers, whom I have never heard speak."
Wrong. I'm not "branding" you with anything. I'm simply pointing out your partisan double standard. You condemn Obama (who has already rebuked Wright's words), yet you don't extend this condemnation to your Republican politicians who REGULARLY court the endorsements of bigoted Christian conservatives.
Where's your righteous outrage? Obama has already said he disagreed with those controversial segments of Wright's sermon, while recognizing the tremendous amount of good DEEDS Wright has accomplished through his service in the military and in his ministry. Meanwhile, I'm STILL waiting for Huckabee, Giuliani, Romney, and GW Bush to speak out against the bigotry of the Christian conservatives.
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ybdogsct1 year, 7 months ago
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KLARISSA:
"evade basic questions about how Obama will govern."
Obama will govern according to his record -- NONE of which involves the bigotry you accuse him of.
From his experience as a community organizer, Obama will reverse the economic policies of the Bush administration which has favored big business and lead to big business corruption (Enron collapse, predatory lending that lead to the current housing crisis, etc.).
From his experience in the Illinois State Senate and US Senate, Obama will introduce ethics reform legislation.
From his antiwar speech, Obama will look for the quickest, yet most responsible, way to end the occupation in Iraq. All of his other policy issues can be found on his website.
It's laughable you would accuse me of evading a question you hadn't asked explicitly until now, while continuing to evade ANNO's original question: "What do actually know about Rev. Wright? Do you know more than a few video bites you've seen on YouTube?"
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
Yes, it would be good to know what was being taught in Sunday school there. Given Rev. Wright's leadership, I suspect that what was being taught was social justice. Why would Sen. Obama disagree with that?
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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searchbeam makes some very good points, including that Rev. Wright was in charge of the church. I do not know whether Sen. Obama ever directly confronted Rev. Wright about some of his oratory, but given that they did have a reasonably close relationship , I wouldn't be surprised if they discussed their differences.
It is certainly NOT true that the last known confrontation between church leaders was when Martin Luther challenged the Roman Catholic Church. In the last 10 years, there have been dramatic confrontations within the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church, and various Lutheran Churches concerning homosexuality, torture, and racial inequity. Some of those confrontations have caused the Churches to fracture.
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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Still, I do not see why Sen. Obama should condemn Rev. Wright. It saddens me that so many Christians claim to believe that God speaks through the prophets in the Old and New Testaments, but do not recognize the words of God in the mouth of Rev. Wright! You think Rev. Wright's words are tough on the US? Read Hosea. Hosea calls the government of Israel a ****** who has turned away from righteousness. The powerful people in the US DO have a lot to answer for. When God asks us if we have fed the hungry and clothed the naked and visited the sick, what will we say? Rev. Wright is doing nothing but asking all listeners to be Sheep and not Goats - to be true disciples of the Christ instead of phonies.
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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I can hardly believe that in my last comment, when I was quoting Hosea from the Bible and used a word meaning prostitute, that was bleeped by Propeller. (sigh)
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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I do not know how much influence Sen. Obama has in his church. It is likely that it is more than a little, but less than a lot.
Is being a church leader a prerequisite for being Pres? It would be fine with me to disconver that Sen. Obama is a leader in his church, but it is far more telling that he has worked as a community organizer, fought for social justice and stood against the war in Iraq. Those are the kinds of things that us regular people in the church (not clergy) do.
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Klarissa1 year, 7 months ago
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anno - if a member of your congregation were running for Pres, would he/she have any influence?
YOu mention worked, fought, stood, but he lacks experience leading. That doesn't infer that the other candidates have that experience either.
Give Obama another 4 years to mature and show that he can lead.
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
I do not see Sen. Obama as lacking experience. In fact, my perception is that he has the skills, character, wisdom and experience to be the Pres. It is true that he has had different experiences than Sens. Clinton or McCain. I see Sen. Obama's experiences as being crucial to his character. He is a person who has experienced racial prejudice, but not been jaded by it. He remains hopeful. He has worked at the grass roots to organize the disposessed. As such, he understands that government can help, but cannot make the society work.
Part of being a leader is drawing a following. Sen. Obama has drawn a following against all odds. Sen. Clinton was the party candidate, but Sen. Obama's appeal is swelling from ground up, not from the top down.
Sen. Obama will be even more seasoned in 4 years, but he is certainly mature enough right now.
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annoDomini1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
Sorry, I didn't answer your question about whether a member of my congregation were running for Pres. whether s/he would have any influence. Yes, probably. One of the members of my congregation is the local mayor and another is the County Clerk. They have some influence in the congregation, but typically less than some others because they are not actively serving on the church's governing board.
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JayGA1 year, 7 months ago
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Klarissa,
Classical evidence of Obama's leadership ability is his campaign. It is modeled after his experience as a community organizer. I read that his Texas team was formed by training a few leaders, who trained more, and they were carrying on an independent campaign months before the official campaign team even established a presence in Texas. The leadership model is to listen to people, train them, and then enable people to act on their own behalf once a consensus has been reached.
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Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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JayGA1 year, 7 months ago
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Locky,
Obama's book title is taken from Dr. Wright's inspiring sermon, "The Audacity to Hope." Listen on the Web. It is uplifting, not angry or hateful.
The Trinity UCC website has a video from a white woman who drives an hour to attend and always feels warmly welcome. Lutheran theologian Martin Marty reported the same welcome. That seems unlikely if Rev. Wright is such a prejudiced, hateful man.
In the infamous "Damn America" sermon, Rev. Wright chastizes,but also very compassionately calls 9/1 a tragedy, and warns that "hate begets hate," and "violence begets violence," in a very empathetic way. Seeking guidance from God, he concludes that his first response must be to examine his own heart to make sure that he is right with God. That is again an unusual response for a "hatemonger!"
I believe that Obama stuck with Rev. Wright because his message is primarily positive and uplifting, not hateful.
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mivan41 year, 7 months ago
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let me get this right, Aren't you SMEARING Christians ? Are you not stereotyping ? Doesn't that cast you in the SAME LIGHT that you are trying to cast ON CHRISTIANS ?????????
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