Comments for A nation ruined »
Posted By jovial 1 year, 8 months ago in NewsThe war against Iraq, now five years old, is unquestionably one of the most unpardonable crimes against humanity.
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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"The once cosmopolitan city of Baghdad has been ghettoised. Entire neighbourhoods have been segregated by concrete walls built by the occupation army. The capital is pockmarked with military checkpoints. The Bush administration claims that the "military surge" it ordered is responsible for the dip in the casualty figures from the middle of last year to early this year. According to many observers, the real reason for the dip in casualty figures is the ethnic cleansing that took place for four years in major population centres."
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engineer1 year, 8 months ago
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GHOSTWHOWALKS1 year, 8 months ago
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I'd love to see that happen engineer but in all reality I do not think it will ever happen. Congress has repeatedly failed to do anything but talk and the world court- while having warrants issued- may not have the required authority to bring these as*holes before a judge.
The people of the United States may want it and clamor for a trial, but the fact is none of the members -well maybe two, or three would - will never vote for impeachment and a trial.
That leaves only two possibilities. Neither is a good thing. One would require a revolution - hopefully a peaceful one - but very unlikely considering the power wielded by those in control and their reluctance to relinquish that power.
The second is to just give up which is just as bad as the first, since it would not change anything. I believe that is what is referred to as being between a rock and a hard place.
We can only hope something good will happen and all this is just a passing folly.
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Jaydee401 year, 8 months ago
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Remember when some of the Nazi's were brought to the Hague years after the Nuremberg trials by the famous Nazi hunters. They didn't always have the authority either but it didn't stop them did it? One can only hope that the world courts will some day do their job and then leave it up to others if the US fails to cooperate.
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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rightfromwrong1 year, 8 months ago
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The USA is fading fast...hyper inflation,middle class unemployment increasing rapidly and a unfathomable debt which is out of control. The USA military services are overstretched and this is why they had to use the national guard in Iraq otherwise they would have had to institute the draft which we all know would have been the end of the war. It was an illegal war with the administration being at least complicit in the 9/11 attacks.
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m-simon1 year, 8 months ago
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Yep. Inflation worse than Zimbabwe. Food riots in the streets. Agricultural production down 90%. Manufacturing production gone. Natural resources exhausted. Forest destroyed for fire wood.
And yet unemployment is at 5.1%. In 1996 under Clinton (best president ever) it was 5.6%.
How long can this go on before the government is overthrown?
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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Only you twenty eight- percenter conjobs have the wisdom, keen insight and special secret powers to discern what most of the US and the international community haven't yet grasped--Bush is not only the best President to ever inhabit the White House, he's the purest, most perfect and most infallible immortal to ever grace human kind with his presence. if only others could see what wingjobs see so very clearly, the world would be a much better and wonderful place and oil would flow like liquid gold and rainbows and lil fluffy kittens would appear 24 hours a day. ;-)
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cowboygrandpa1 year, 8 months ago
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Jaydee40:
The government does not act in our name. They ceased to do so years ago. They have become a government unto the wealthy and the corporations.
Those who cannot see that are sadly not looking hard enough.
We have become a nation of the money loving. Who seek to enrich ourselves thru the suffering of the rest of the world.
There will be those who deny it. Because it hurts for them to admit that greed is what drives America now.
God is not pleased with us or any nation right now. So I'm sick of hearing how God loves America more. Yes he blessed us and we took advantage of it. We think we are great when it is God who is great.
Lets see we haven't won a war in how long. I mean a real war. That would be since WWII.
I wonder why? Could it be our fearless leaders have sold out for money instead of integrity.
Now I love my country but not it's leaders!!!! They are foul and evil men who seek to ensnare the world in their evil.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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We are subjected to "state propaganda" from cradle to grave in true Pravda style. Many "patriotic myths" will have to go before change comes.
There They Go Again
The Crazy Rev. Wright
.. In 1957, Doubleday released Richard Wright's White Man Listen. .. he wrote "...the greatest aid that any white Westerner can give Africa is by becoming a missionary right in the heart of the Western world, explaining to his own people what they have done to Africa."
..Nobody expects the media to educate the public about Africa. The current coverage is consistent with the images found in the Tarzan movies. I'll settle for missionary work among the American public. Free them from entrapment by corporate media, which are causing their brain cells to atrophy. Teach them other points of views that are smothered by noise, and trivialized on You Tube. Then maybe they'll understand where crazy Rev. Wright is coming from.
http://www.counterpunch.com/reed03252008.html
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mark-stevens1 year, 8 months ago
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Cheney 1992 "going into Baghdad, and bringing down Hussien, would do nothing but create a quagmire"...of course, unless Haliburton got a 50 billion dollar contract to sweep the floors.
Have you noticed how few people, "now" voted for Bush!!
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miklkit1 year, 8 months ago
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Here's a link to him in 1994 saying that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY&feat...
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Georgia501 year, 8 months ago
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In the once cosmopolitan city of Bagdad, political dissent was answered with summary execution, often through painful and horrific means. Saddam's sons operated rape rooms with impunity. The underlying horror of Saddam's regime was whitewashed before the international community.
The violence we see now is how foreign-supported insurgents and indeed foreign mercenaries want to keep Iraq a lawless wasteland. With the help of mindless liberal politicians who seethe at the idea of a successful American intervention, they may yet succeed. Just as the North Vietnamese eventually wore down the ARVN a year after the US pulled out and all aid ceased. Then Iraq can become once again a sponsor and perpetrator of international terrorism.
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tchef1 year, 8 months ago
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The Mehdi Militia is lead by, and manned by Iraqis. Yes they have the support of Iran, but they are Iraqi Shiites. Our intervention at this time is just forestalling the inevitable. By bringing down Saddam we have merely opened this country up to civil war. This is the reason they didn't take out Saddam the first time.
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
Declaration of Independence.
Notice it says "their right" or "their duty". No where does it say our sons and daughter should be sacrificed spreading our form of democracy, or that we have any right or duty to right the wrongs that occur in other countries.
Our armed forces are tasked with protecting these united states.
Iraq was never a threat to us.
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
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"The Nuremberg Charter clearly states that initiating a war of aggression is a "supreme international crime".
Our future will remain bleak if this administration and its co-conspirators who have waged an illgegal war are not tried for crimes against humanity.
The empire of America has become a militaristic dictatorship run by corporate profiteers. Unless the military industrial complex is thrown out of Washington and K Street is banned from usurping our fair representation, we will remain the subjects of a ruthless warmongering state.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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You fail only to mention the role of the ZionCons in nurturing and maintaining the evil.
"Good News" From Iraq & Beyond
Do No Evil â;; In December 2007 Panama declared a Day of Mourning to commemorate the US invasion of 1989, which killed thousands of poor people, when Bush I bombed the El Chorillo slums. Panama was more deadly than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait a few months later, but US military imperialism there and throughout the world is never touched by US media.
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/04/04/...
Zionist Mobsters and John McCain
Politics â;; McCain's Career has mostly been financed by jewish mobster money. He is married to the daughter of a member of the jewish mafia. His family has a long tradition of doing Israel's bidding, even to the point of covering up Israeli attacks on America.
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/04/02/...
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Natureboy1 year, 8 months ago
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"Our future will remain bleak if this administration and its co-conspirators who have waged an illegal war are not tried for crimes against humanity."
Unfortunately, wars of aggression and genocide are as American as apple pie, and most of the architects of them have died peacefully in their sleep.
If anything, expect the U.S. to become even more insane and desparate; this is the society and economy that cheap oil built, and it is coming to an end. The U.S. is now in the endgame of trying to secure control of the rest of the world's oil so we will run out last. But we will run out, no matter how violent, how genocidal we become, and this whole house of cards will come tumbling down.
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globalwarmer1 year, 8 months ago
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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We have had that obligation for a long time and have never fulfilled it.
The US Corporate Role
Ensuring the Success of Fascism in Spain
As part of my upbringing, I was taught that the men and women who fought against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War were giants....
...The Lincoln Brigade was supported by the Soviet Union and whatever small donations the global working class could contribute during the Depression. It took three years and the money and support of fascists from all over the "free world" to defeat democratic Spain. The U.S. was officially neutral, but the purpose of that so-called neutrality was actually to support the Spanish fascists. U.S. corporations easily subverted the two U.S. neutrality acts of 1937 by using their global network of subsidiaries, affiliates, boards of directors, banks and direct control over U.S. extraterritorial production as conduits to send money and war materiel to the Spanish fascists.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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GM, Ford, Standard Oil, IBM and others had manufacturing plants in Nazi Germany. It isn't possible that the supporters of the neutrality acts didn't know this. Enough of them were sympathetic to fascism to allow the laws--irrelevant to Franco's supply lines but not to the desperate Republicans--to pass. When war materiel was sent directly from the U.S to the Spanish fascists, U.S. corporations had the help of Cordell Hull, the Secretary of State under President FDR, the "Saint," to cover for them (see this excellent piece by Vincent Navarro).
... the only criterion the U.S. has ever had for supporting or rejecting any regime or policy is whether it would welcome, if not foster capitalist profit needs...
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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...In Britain's American colonies and later in the newly founded U.S., racism and genocide were tolerated and encouraged as long as profits poured in. Slavery enriched plantation owners in the south and merchants, shippers and corporations in the north. For 246 years the death, pain and suffering of African American slaves was legal and institutionalized. The U.S. Constitution legalized black inferiority (Article 1, sec. 2, P 3). "Scientific" racism flourished. The journal Eugenical News: Current Record of Human Genetics and Race Hygiene, published many "scientific" articles verifying hierarchical racism. Thousands were lynched, and thousands were sterilized when the technology became available. Native Americans were slaughtered and their cultures vilified by Christian missionaries funded by capitalists like John D. Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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Driven off their land, the Native Americans were put onto concentration camps called "reservations" or, deprived of their main source of food and clothing, allowed to starve to death. After Chinese workers finished the western half of the transcontinental railroad in 1869, they were rewarded with the Chinese Exclusion Act. Passed on May 6, 1882, it blocked Chinese immigration to the U.S. until 1943, when China was our World War 11 ally against Japan, whose immigrants and descendents in the U.S. were also put en masse into concentration camps.
At the time of the Spanish Civil War, the U.S. military was segregated and only whites were promoted to higher ranks. When the European fascists began legalizing their own brand of oppressive racism, they used the U.S. model to fashion their laws. Only the human target changed.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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The laboratory of horror of the demented Nazi doctor Josef Mengele had its precedent in the horrors perpetrated on young African American slave women by Dr. J. Marion Sims. In Harriet Washington's book Medical Apartheid, she wrote that Sims performed vaginal operations without anesthetic on these women. Sims was attempting to perfect a procedure to correct a gynecological problem, but only rich white women enjoyed the benefits.
... U.S. bankers, industrialists and their politicians provided a blueprint for fascism on how to deal with working people who had the nerve to stand between them and the profits they wanted. Racism was often a key element in their planning.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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... In Spain on April 26, 1937, over two-dozen Nazi Condor Legion warplanes bombed the Basque "capital" city of Guernica. It was the world's introduction to blitzkrieg. There were military targets nearby, but none were targeted--the bridge, railways, and arms factory remained unscathed. Civilian targets, however, were easy prey ...
... Guernica burned for three days, destroying almost three quarters of the town. Luftwaffe pilots flew the war planes, but U.S. capitalists helped them get off the ground, commit their acts of terrorism and return home. Henry Ashby Turner, Jr, in his book General Motors and the Nazis, wrote that Du Pont-controlled General Motors (GM), Rockefeller-controlled Standard Oil of New Jersey, and the German company IG Farben, produced tetra-ethyl lead (TEL) at German plants under the new company name Ethyl G.m.b.H. Tetra-ethyl lead was used to boost low-grade German gasoline made from coal into high-grade aviation fuel.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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GM produced airplane engine parts for the German company Daimler-Benz and airplane parts for the German Junker war planes, including the JU-88, the Luftwaffe's most widely used fighter-bomber. The Nazi planes that decimated Guernica were JU-52/3m, originally powered by U.S. Pratt & Whitney engines. The fuel used to power the planes that destroyed Guernica may have been produced by U.S. corporations in Germany burning in engines probably made by Pratt & Whitney of Connecticut.
..Despite the much-touted U.S. "neutrality," FDR's liberal administration allowed GM, Ford, Texaco (Texas Oil Company) and others to send war materiel to the Spanish fascists. I remember listening to Brigade veterans at a reunion in New York City "joking" about running away from a column of Ford trucks carrying a detachment of Franco's troops. Corporate America may have provided more vehicles to the fascists than any other group in the world...
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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At its peak, the International Brigades numbered perhaps 32,000 troops from all over the world. The Lincoln Brigade boasted 2,800 American soldiers and 250 Irish fighters. By the summer of 1938, there were only about 450 Americans left among the 3,000 international volunteers still fighting. During a surprise offensive by the democratic forces that captured Fatarella, the locals told the Brigade's troops how the Spanish fascists were killing captured Brigade fighters. The fascists were largely inefficient as murderers, however. It took IBM president Thomas Watson to arrange to have his minions teach them how to use IBM technology to round up and murder large numbers of unarmed anti-fascists efficiently... Between 1939 and 1945. the Spanish fascists murdered at least 200,000 people located with the help of Watson's IBM cards.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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...Unfortunately, many popular, progressive governments and movements have been overthrown or undermined by the U.S. since the defeat of the Spanish democracy. "Between 1945 and 2005 the United States has attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes," William Blum wrote in the third edition of Rogue State, A Guide to the World's Only Superpower: "In the process, the U.S. has caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair." These actions were supported by the same "great democracy" that supported Italy, Germany and Spain and the same corporations that supported Mussolini, Hitler and Franco. The reason is also the same: to America's corporate elite, "democracy" means having a market economy, and little else. Colin Powell said this more than once ..
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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When we found out why Henry Kissinger was leering at us in 1973, what price did we demand for the war crimes committed by the US government and multinational corporations? The same price we demanded from our government after the defeat of democratic Spain in 1939, at the end of World War 11 in 1945, when Franco died in 1975, when Pinochet died in 2006. Nothing.
We must emulate the courage of Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon and the giants of the Lincoln Brigade by naming the war criminals in our midst, give them the punishment they deserve for their crimes. Unless we raise that demand, we can expect nothing from institutions that supposedly honor the Lincoln Brigade except more silence. Our silence will encourage the next administration to plan and carry out with impunity next year's "regime change" in the name of a supposed free market democracy, whose market and democracy is dominated by corporate monopolists.
http://www.counterpunch.com/krales04072008.html
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 8 months ago
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I don't think we will see any official action by the U.S. sadly. The Cheney Bush crowd are clearly guilty of crimes against humanity, but even the opposition party (democrats) are not moving or talking about any legal consequences... sadly because the vast majority are also guilty of aiding and abetting these crimes. I don't think even the Hague has the balls to take these thugs on. But you never know. Government serves the interest of business, not justice, not we the people. If war is profitable for business, war will be had. It's not profitable to put these clowns on trial, and may discourage future clowns from doing the bidding of these multi national business concerns ( who are bigger and far more powerful than any nation-state).
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vor1 year, 8 months ago
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More like Bush is oblivious to what Cheney and the neocons have done. How anyone could refer to this sychophant as a great leader is beyond common sense. The neocons are the ones that took his popularity from the mid 80's down to the teens. It was their policies that were implemented post 9/11 not Bush's. He wasn't even around during their formation in the 90's.
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cushi1 year, 8 months ago
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I'll be damn ed if I'm giving him a pass! He accepted the responsibility as commander in chief and he has been at the very least complicit in all that has transpired.
The buck stops with the arrogant, intellectually challenged twit!
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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So I bulldoze the mansion of Bill Gates. Of course he has the money and insurance to one day rebuild it, but does that negate the fact that it was "ruined"? Will all the memories and all the trophies and important papers and photographs be replaced? This is just a small example. In Iraq, friends and countrymen were killed, in my example no one was hurt. Yes, one day they may be able to rebuild, but the loss of lives, the loss of careers, the suffering, the loss of health, can't be rebuilt with oil money.
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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I have an extreme intolerance for intolerance and when I see a title "A Nation Ruined", I'm going complain.
A Nation damaged ... OK. A nation in turmoil ... OK.
You're one of the posters on nutscape that often implies absolution on your stories, that you know you're right. If there is one thing I've learned over the years, we know very little and we absolutely know even less.
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Jaydee401 year, 8 months ago
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How about the reputation of the US government ruined world wide. At one time people would believe when the mighty Americans told the world something or stood up for something but since the shrub the world has no faith or trust in them, now they just make jokes about them.
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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How do you know our reputation is ruined worldwide? Did you read that somewhere? Did you hear it on CNN? Have you been around the world?
Are we more unpopular or despised than Israel or Pakistan or North Korea or China or France or any other country.
The fact is world opinion blows like a feather in the wind.
You may THINK our reputation is ruined, but you don't really KNOW that do you.
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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Ever spend anytime outside the US simon? The rest opf the world sees through our hypocrisy and lies rather easily. You are just spouting the Pravda style state propaganda to which americans are subjected from cradle to grave.
"Good News" From Iraq & Beyond
Do No Evil â;; In December 2007 Panama declared a Day of Mourning to commemorate the US invasion of 1989, which killed thousands of poor people, when Bush I bombed the El Chorillo slums. Panama was more deadly than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait a few months later, but US military imperialism there and throughout the world is never touched by US media.
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/04/04/...
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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We got a lot of respect under Jimmy Carter didn't we.
The truth is, Europe jokes about us and always has. We were the world's patsies, considered unsophisticated and soft in negotiations. We could always solve it with money and still do.
The middle east will look different in 20 years, but I'm not smart enough to know better or worse from our standpoint.
Hopefully better.
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wtagg1 year, 8 months ago
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"We could always solve it with money and still do."
And how is this conservative?
"Are we more unpopular or despised than Israel or Pakistan or North Korea or China or France or any other country."
You aren't really setting the benchmark very high, are you?
"We got a lot of respect under Jimmy Carter didn't we."
Ditto my last comment.
We need to learn from the last 60 years of foreign policy faux pas and it certainly would be smarter and cheaper to not step in it as we continuously do.
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miklkit1 year, 8 months ago
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Didn't Jimmy Carter get some sort of award for his efforts in the middle east?
The Europeans that I have talked to are scared to death about what is happening in this country. But they think we will eventually recover from this abortion of an administration due to the strength of our Constitution.
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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Intolerant to the intolerant a good oxymoron. Have a gander at some before and after pictures of Baghdad and judge for yourself whether ruined is an accurate description.
http://www.slideshare.net/Peety/baghdad-before-...
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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Who did those things to Pearl Harbor and London? Are we as a country trying to assimilate the ones that did Pearl Harbor and the bombing of London? In Berlin it was a world war to stop an incredibly dangerous tyrant that had already taken over many countries and had to be stopped. What was our justification to do this to Iraq? Don't say we had to stop him from nuking us, that's baloney. Can you say, "We did it, because we could?" We shutdown a country and literally destroyed it, so that it could never get a deterrent that would be able to prevent us from invading them.
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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Actually Bush daddy killed more people in Panama than Saddam killed in invading Kuwait. And of course the mass murders by Cheney, rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, ... go back to the first million they helped kill in Indonesia during the Ford administration. Why do you lie to us?
Crimes Against Humanity From Ford to Saddam
Now that both Gerald Ford and Saddam Hussein are dead and buried, the question of how they will be remembered here in the United States arises. If the talk of officialdom and the mainstream media outlets thus far is any indicator-and surely it is-the U.S. collective memories of the two leaders will be diametrically opposed..
...If we do not limit our analysis of Ford to a U.S. "statesman," and examine his behavior through an internationalist lens similar to that employed to judge Saddam Hussein and concerned with crimes against humanity, we find that Ford, too, was responsible for mass murder-in East Timor....
http://www.counterpunch.org/nevins01062007.html
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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tanglang: "Unlike the 400,000 that saddam gassed?"
Whom does that 400,000 include? Are you counting the Iranians too? Where did you get that figure from? Not that it matters whether it's 10,000 or 400,000, but every time I see that figure quoted, it gets bigger.
This is not a contest. It's not a matter of Saddam good -- US bad because it caused the deaths of more people. Both are bad.
If the Iraqis didn't like Saddam, they should have revolted and got rid of him. Oh, yes, they did after being encouraged by the US. And when they were gassed, what happened? Nothing.
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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When Ronnie Raygun took Iraq off the nations who support terrorism back in 82 he opened the door for not only US companies to do business with Iraq but also for our allies like the UK, Germany, France...ect to do business with them as well. It was Germany who sold them the chemicals needed to produce the weapons but it was the US that sold them the technology to manufactor them.
Saint Raygun is the best answer but a host of allied countries profited from it.
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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Some damage takes longer than others, you can't just throw money at a problem and expect all to be well again. That's my point. I'll accept your point that buildings can be rebuilt. Things can be replaced. People on the other hand aren't so easily replaced.
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Natureboy1 year, 8 months ago
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The depleted uranium that the U.S. has deployed will remain in the Iraqis water, soil and air for the next several million years, continuing to cause cancer, heavy metal toxicity and birth defects. You really have to take the long view to call that "temporary."
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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We left the nut in North Korea in power, Omar Al-Basir in the Sudan, Than Shwe in Burma, King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia, Hu Jintao in China, Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Musharraf in Pakistan, Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan, and Isayas Afewerki in Eritrea. Some of these dictators are considered our allies.
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wtagg1 year, 8 months ago
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You forgot Saddam. He was our ally. Didn't we support OBL? I wonder how many times al-Sadr will decide he no longer wants to work in conjunction with the Iraqi and US forces. 1 and counting.....
We need to learn from our bad judgment. It is not conservative to finance and stock your future enemies with weapons.
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wtagg1 year, 8 months ago
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Apparently Tang doesn't feel my comment is truthful or not liberal enough for his tastes. Of course, he may believe that those choices were sound ones, though history may indicate differently.
I thought you claimed to be conservative. Your postings point to your real political leanings and they aren't conservative in the true definition of the word.
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jovial1 year, 8 months ago
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Here's a link that i got these names from and some interesting facts on how the U.S. is somehow involved with them. Pretty interesting.
http://www.parade.com/dictators/2008/index.jsp
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Natureboy1 year, 8 months ago
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"Should we have left Saddam in power?"
It is American grandiosity and arrogance to think that this was our decision to make.
Every people, every country, has pretty much the government that they deserve, including us, and it is for the people of that country to tolerate or depose it. "Democracy" imposed by the bomb and the gun can only be a lie.
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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simonsez: "Should we have left Saddam in power? What do you think?"
I'm not a Muslim, but my answer to your question is: Yes. What gives the right to the US to leave or change the leader of another sovereign country? Only the Iraqis had the right to get rid of Saddam Hussein.
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NoWayMan1 year, 8 months ago
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we had saddam in check. so, yes.
we also had more pressing, more dangerous enemies at the time that got away (in tora bora). so much for chasing bin laden to the gates of hell. just more bush cowboy talk I guess.
when bush turned his eye on Iraq, he took his eye off the ball.
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simonsez1 year, 8 months ago
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To you jovial, I'm not defending the war, by the way. The most permanent damage will be in the psyche and minds of our soldiers, I fear. Even worse than the physical damage.
They did their job and did it well. I remember being proud the day we watched that statue coming down.
Beyond that, the strategy was flawed.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 8 months ago
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''I'm just saying damage is a temporary thing and fixable.''
''The most permanent damage will be in the psyche and minds of our soldiers,''
ever notice how when its the other guy's problem, its a temporary and fixable problem
and in line two, it further illustrates the 'other guy' philosophy, by talking about the worst damage being to 'our' soldiers psyches.
how bout the 50,000 dead for no reason in the invasion? How bout family and friends of the 50K? How bout the refugees and disrupted lives? You really believe all that is temporary and fixable?
Thats just 'other guy' philosophy
and what you said about Pearl Habor and London...comparing the US obliquely to the Nazis and the Japanese of WW2,in SUPPORT of the US,no less
you got people in charge who killed and otherwise mildly inconvenienced hundreds of thousands of people for made up reasons...why are you defending and minimizing?
Not to mention the mounting war debt
why would anyone want to take a poking and defend the pokers
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hyperbola1 year, 8 months ago
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Well Simon, if you were proud of that propaganda circus, then you have been living in the propaganda bubble for too long. Get out of your provincialism.
By the way, you might be interested in what one of the very few Iraqis involved now has to say:
Khalil regrets toppling statue of Saddam
Baghdad - Ibrahim Khalil, who five years ago took part in the iconic toppling of a giant statue of Saddam Hussein in central Baghdad, said on Wednesday he now regrets taking part in the hugely symbolic event.
"If history can take me back, I will kiss the statue of Saddam Hussein which I helped pull down," Khalil told reporters on the fifth anniversary of the statue's toppling....
... "Now I realise that the day Baghdad fell was in fact a black day. Saddam's days were better," said Khalil, who along with his brother runs a car repair shop...
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_i...
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