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Posted by: engineer 1 year, 8 months ago
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engineer1 year, 8 months ago
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rdy2rckComment removed: Hard Banned34 Replies
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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or like a kiss between Bush and the Saudi princes behind the Saudi terrorists.
No bid deal, right?
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user9 Replies
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Ratskii1 year, 8 months ago
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel
And how many Arab Nations have never outright formally recognized Israel?
Aftger ten years of Peace Maybe the Palestinian people would decide living in peace is better than death and destruction.
But you know if Carter can be called these kind of things for just listening and talking to Hamas, a deal for peace is longer than ten years away.
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rdy2rckComment removed: Hard Banned
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m-simon1 year, 8 months ago
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Hey,
I think the Israelis should make a counter offer.
The Palis permanently cede 1/2 of Gaza and 1/3 of the West Bank to Israel in exchange for a 10 year truce.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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How about both sides cede each other all illegally gained lands since 1967?
The Pals have been asking for this since 1967, but the Israelis have refused. Why?
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blinkers1 year, 8 months ago
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At least two reasons I've read of, Lurch: one, the strip of land between the old pre-1967 West Bank and the Mediterranean was considered impossibly narrow and made the country far too easy to split in two; secondly, Jerusalem as the ancient capital of the Jews needed to be entirely in Israeli hands, not divided up, with Jordan.
Doubtless there're more, but those spring to mind, right now.
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StarLord1 year, 8 months ago
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But why?
Israel has a right to exist.
So does Palestine.
Both sides need to start killing each other a little less.
Also, Israel was perfectly willing to accept the UN Partition until they realised that they were strong enough to take whay they wanted.
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NoSpinDave1 year, 8 months ago
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story not accutate. Please move along. Carter lied. Hamas refuted this statement 12 hours ago.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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Dave
Was it Carter that lied or the Hamas?? How many times have the Arabs made an agreement or a statement and backed down after pressure from their radical members. I tend to think that Carter told it like it was and the Hamas changed their position.
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tanglang1 year, 8 months ago
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IFergie, Long time no see. Hope all is well.
All pleasantries aside, Carter is a p o s. Look at the destruction he caused to Africa by 'validating' the elctions of dictators who cut off the arms of people who said they would vote against him. Look at the fact that he is responsible for the nuclear N Korea we have today.
I don't trust carter, or believe one peanut farming thing that comes out of his hole.
Also, I do agree with you that the muslims do intentionally lie to get their way every chance they get.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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I'm doing fine thank you.
As you stated: "All pleasantries aside". It is quite a coincidence that you would not believe anything a peanut farmer president would say but you have great faith in the accuracy of the words of an oil man president. Carter was a religious man when Bush Jr was pickling his brain with alcohol.
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tanglang1 year, 8 months ago
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Glad to hear it.
I'm from Ga. We don't care too much for old Jimmy here. I did however use the term "peanut farming" to replace a naught term that I would have liked to use.
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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lfergie812: "Was it Carter that lied or the Hamas??"
Probably neither. I don't see any contradiction in their statements. Carter said Hamas is willing to live in peace with Israel as a neighbor, while Hamas said they would not formally recognize Israel. There is a host of possibilities between formal recognition and constant war. Unless I'm mistaken, China has never formally recognized Taiwan as an independent nation, but they have been living in peace for quite some time now.
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StarLord1 year, 8 months ago
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NoSpinDave1 year, 8 months ago
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Ummm, Hamas has ALREADY released a statement saying this is a flat out lie.
Carter already caught in a lie...SHOCKER. This article should be removed as innaccurate.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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You have no proof that Carter lied or was inaccurate unless you suddenly started believing the Arabs.
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airglide1 year, 8 months ago
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http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=79
In part
However, almost immediately after Carter spoke, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told reporters that the American had apparently gotten ahead of himself, or misinterpreted statements by the Hamas leadership to fit his own agenda.
Hamas, said Abu Zuhri, was indeed prepared to allow a referendum on a two-state solution, but made no guarantees that it would accept the results.
And that, of course, is the primary reason Israel will not consider including Hamas in peace talks.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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It is very apparent to me that this is a negotiating strategy by both sides.
Hamas: put the two-state solution on the table, but try to get the most you can in exchange for recognizing Israel
Israel: make two-state recognition a condition of the negotiation, so with that off the table, Israel`s bargaining position is much stronger
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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This does not prove that Carter lied. All it proves is that the Hamas either 1. Changed their position 2 Misled Carter or 3 Ideas were misunderstood through translation of their conversation.
At the very least Carter is trying to bring peace to the area (which I believe will never happen) instead of trying to go to war with every Arab nation. ( To run up the price of oil I might add)
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Carter has done more in one weekend as a private citizen than the entire Bush admin has done for peace in the last seven years with all the resources of the USA at their calling.
If Carter is a mess, what does that make the Republicans?
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NoSpinDave1 year, 8 months ago
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"Carter has done more in one weekend as a private citizen than the entire Bush admin has done for peace in the last seven years with all the resources of the USA at their calling."
He has done more alright, but meeting with them he has done more HARM than anyone has ever done.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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>He has done more alright, but meeting with them he has done more HARM than anyone has ever done.
Only if you are part of the military-entertainment complex and hate your country.
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NoSpinDave1 year, 8 months ago
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"Only if you are part of the military-entertainment complex and hate your country."
oh, but to live in liberal candy land where the rivers run red with cool-aid and the trees are cotton candy.
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airglide1 year, 8 months ago
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GLee
You might like this political cartoon.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/cartoons.aspx
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Blackacereturn1 year, 8 months ago
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I wonder how his critics feel now. Thing is Israel doesn't want this I am sure they will do all they can to stop this frome being.
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Georgia501 year, 8 months ago
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You're absolutely right. Only Dhimmi Carter is so abysmally stupid as to say to Israel: "Y'all gets to be neighbors now, so forget SOVEREIGNTY."
Not happenin dude.
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rdy2rckComment removed: Hard Banned94 Replies
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Tangent0011 year, 8 months ago
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I'd have to say there's plenty of room between naivety and pure cynicism for Carter to operate. The worst anyone can do is just give up.
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DanmLiberalsComment removed: Retracted by user92 Replies
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Im sorry, but I just have to laugh at the most obvious form of kettle callin pot black.
Heres a member whos positionin himself as bein somehow 'above the fray' of others ... with their 'put downs' ...
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and what is this members chosen name?
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DanmLiburals!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, if that aint the clearest sign that we Conservatives are incapable of rational thought!!
We are, in a word ... shoobie shoobie craaazie!!
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Want MORE proof?
This member, DanmLiburals (but repeated often by other shoobies) actually BLAMES Jimmy for orchestrating the installation of a "Islamo Fascist' goverment!!
Now, I realize that our Christian Conservative support of Neo-Con militirism REQUIRES us to be ignorant of facts, but still, Im an adult, and I know that it was Eisenhower's topplin of a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED Premier in 1954 that laid the groundwork for Khomeni's rise to power.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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I mean, I realize that we Christian Conservatives have been trained to alay all rational considerations in favor of supportin the overt militirism and near-fascist policies of the Neo-Conservative movement ... all because they promised us more political power ... But LETS GET REAL!!
This contract with the Neo-Cons is simply becomin TOO MUCH of a burden for our Christian values!
Its too much a burden for ANYONE who wants to live a life of rational, empirical observation ... based in TRUTH ... as opposed to the craaazie partisan, mindless rhetoric the Republican Media Machine requires us to parrot back.
I mean, lets get REAL!!
Who REALLY believes that we can invade any nation we want on a whim, topple any leader we want for our pleasure, and support any ruthless dictator we desire ... WITHOUT ANY EVENTUAL REPURCUSSIONS?!!
DanmLiburals - I URGE you to RE-join the world of RATIONALity.
And please, stop acting liek you dont put poeple down.
K?
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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BTW ... heres the Wikipedia notes on the US involvement in the overthrow of the Democratically Elected Premier.
Liek Iraq today, the concern was losing control of oil contracts.
And I apologize for the date. The FACTUAL date was 1953, not 1954.
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From the Wikipedia account:
"The idea of overthrowing Mosaddeq was conceived by the British who asked President Truman for assistance but he refused. The British raised the idea again to Eisenhower who became president in 1953. The new administration agreed to participate in overthrowing the elected government of Iran."
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We will never know peace as a nation unless we stop interfering with other nations who simply want to rule themselves.
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ProudBlueTexan1 year, 8 months ago
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That Wikipedia is a libural/communist plot and is nowheres mentioned in the bible. Hell, that '1953' must be the Muslim date. Thems different from American dates, ya know......
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user17 Replies
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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MAN ALIVE capey!!
You are sufferin from what I liek to call Divertist!
The only issue that you mention that Jimmy Carter had any hand in was the Olympic Boycott! And THATS the one thing the righties supported!!
Lets look at each issue, shall we, and compare them to our Goerge W. Bush.
1. Long lines ... a result of the Saudi Arabia boycot. This boycot was supported by American oil companies who saw an opportunity for higher profits.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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These boycotts were started in Nixon's and Ford's administration. Interest rate were the result of Nixon's Phase I, II ,III, etc.
But Goppy, don't let facts cloud capecore's statement because he can't help it if he suffers from dementia.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Actually, the Bush oil crisis is worse than the Carter oil crisis. Despite having plenty of supply, the price of oil has gone up at a quicker rate during Bush than during the oil crisis when there was no supply during the 70s.
Makes you go hmmm....
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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Good point Lurch. I haven't seen any long lines at the pumps unless the gas station has the price a few cents less per gallon than the one across the street.
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ArgoNunya1 year, 8 months ago
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You must not have been around in the 70s when there were gas lines and you could only get gas on odd or even numbered days based on your license plate number.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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What I mean is that was a real crisis inflating prices, this is a fake crisis inflating prices even more.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
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Wait until the energy cost catches up with the cost of products. Prices are already rising from the cost of transportation. Airlines either going belly up or increase prices because of fuel prices.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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4. The reason we were depressed was because we realized for the first time that Nixon, havin just been booted from office, was a supreme liar. We also realized that the Militirist Philosophy caint control the world.
Plus, the Beatles had broken up.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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5. Just liek I dont never blame Bush for our unemployment rates or interest rates, I dont blame Jimmy for those.
Its determined by the Fed.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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6. How the h ell do we blame Carter for the Iranian revolution when it all goes back to our installin a puppet regiem?
Look, this is FACT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_...
America under Eisenhower toppled a freely elected Prime Minister and installed a repressive puppet friendly to the US.
This is a recipe for long term disaster. It CREATES enemies.
And thats what happened.
If you are upset by the hostage situation, put the blame where honest poeple place it ... on American interference with Iranian affairs.
Its your basic cause and effect.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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7. Carter was a former Navy man. He inherited a demoralized military that was mismanaged for years in a failed Vietnam policy.
When a nation has perverted the purpose of the military, it becomes ineffectual.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Carter askin the Shah to step down was the only intellegent thing for America to do.
If Goerge W. Bush had been presdient, he would no doubt had pursued the Neo-con strategy of invadin Iran.
You should be aware, capey, that after 9/11, Iranians were marchin in the street in SUPPORT of the US.
There was even talk of a poeples revolution that might topple the hardliner mullahs.
But when GW attacked Iraq, their next door neighbor, all protests FOR American stopped, and protests AGAINST America began ... which made the hardliners quite happy.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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BY CONTRAST capey.
Goerge W Bush, being a PROACTIVE sort, has brought unprecedented disaster to our nation by a willful pursuit of a disgraced ideeologie .. Neo-Conservatism.
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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LOL
"helping to Install a Islamo Fascist government?"
Carter or was the Bush Sr. that was courting the Ayatollah?
"Or how he stood up for Chavez"
As oppsosed to supporting a failed coup like the current Adminoistration.
"Carter wrote in his book that Israel doesnt have a right to exist"
Direct quotes please. Each of your arguments are simply based on lies. Stop listening to Rush he tell you sweet little lies.....
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Do you think THATS where DanmLiburals is gettin this tripe?
MAN ALIVE!!
I LOVED his last line...
"Libs. think with you head, not your emotions."
Thats how Neo-Cons rule! Emotions is the essence of their control over Christian Conservatives!!
DanmLiburals must not have been hearing the latest right wing drumbeat,
"If we dont defeat them in Iraq, they will follow us to America and we will be fighting them here in Main Street."
Funny how most all the nations have pulled outta Iraq after finally recognizin what a boon doggle it was. And yet, they all seem to have moved on and are livin quite nicely. No 'hand to hand' combat that I see.
Or maybe DanmLiburals dont remember this ULTIMATE emotive line ...
"We dont want the Smoking Gun to be a Mushroom Cloud."
Turns out, GW knew all along there was no such thing. Turns out, Dick Cheney twisted arms at the CIA to have them bring that scenario into 'possible' reality.
Neo-Cons rule by Fear Emotion.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Im so sorry, but Im STILL laughin at DanmLliburals unbelievable comments.
He says when youre a Libural, asking a question of someones past dont matter.
My GOD!!
I simply cannot believe an American would have the balls to say such a thing!! I am simply astonished that such a person is otherwise capable of stringin words together to make a sentence.
Perhaps, DanmLiburals, you shoulda asked more bout our ole Goerge W. Bushs past.
How he was a draft dodger.
How he wrote a letter beggin to get outta goin to Vietnam
How he was an admitted coke-haid
How he is an alcoholic (recoverin ... but an alky all the saem)
How he prided himself as a 'C' student ... never tryin too hard at anything.
How his first real job was bein appointed to the Board of Directors of an oil company so that company could ingratiate themselfs with George H W Bush.
How he stole land from hunderts of Arlington resdients usin Eminent Domain.
You are one shoobie shoobie fella.
LOL!!
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ProudBlueTexan1 year, 8 months ago
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"How he is an alcoholic (recoverin ... but an alky all the saem)"
I'll just point out again, bushCo never even attempted the 12 Steps of AA; he just praised Jaysus and quit cold turkey, and THAT ain't recovery. (but your point is well taken and appreciated)
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ArgoNunya1 year, 8 months ago
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Re: Goppy
" How he was a draft dodger."
" How he wrote a letter beggin to get outta goin to Vietnam"
Continuing to repeat propaganda does not make it true.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Israel, like ever other nation has no intrinsic right to exist. Nations exist because of their own will and power, and that of their friends. They have come and gone since the dawn of civilization, maybe before. I do not believe that WE should be guarantors of the existence of any Middle Eastern nation. Not one of them is a true ally, let alone a "major" or "valuable" one. They are all of them a hoard of greedy expensive violent children that need to be kicked out of our house.
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fempatriot1 year, 8 months ago
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Israel exists at the expense of the thousands of Palestinians they drove out to Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, etc., the million and a half of Palestinians imprisoned in the Gaza strip, & at the extreme financial expense of the citizens of the United States of America. The USA sends billions of American dollars to Israel, to the tune of at least $20,000 per every Israeli man, woman, child. Israel is a racist, apartheid state that insists on calling itself a Jewish state. That means nobody else is welcome. But American dollars are. Israel exists because of its pit bull, the USA. www.gush-shalom.org/ PEACE NOT APARTHEID - Jimmy Carter
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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Between 1870 and the 1920's the Jew's migrated there and live in peace and brought prosperity to an impoverished Palestine. What caused the Arab Muslins to begin attacking and killing these Jews. Do you think that may have played a role in these Jews organising themselves for their own self defense?
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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The zionist agenda from long before WWII and the holocaust was to turn palestine into the Israeli nation.
They started moving into the area and tried to take over using any means possible. They are infamous for using guns and bombs to assassinate and terrorize the anti-israeli palestinians who lived there before them.
Any objective person would have to say the Arabs have every right to defend themselves from zionist terror dating back a hundred years ago and the apartheid Israel now practices.
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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The Jewish underground began its work in the 30's. It was the British investigation into the several groups and their acts of terror against not only the natives but also the British that eventually led to the bombing of the King David hotel by the Jewish terrorist. However the Arabs did in fact attack and kill many Jews in 1919 and 1929 for no reason other than rumors. There is no black and white in the case of Israel/Palestine both have bloody hands.
Israel was born by the gun and live by the gun.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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And WE need to stay the f--- out of it. Mediation such as Pres. Carter's is fine, but NO ARMS NO MONEY NO SOLDIERS FOR EITHER SIDE
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tanglang1 year, 8 months ago
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If the rest of the world stayed the f out of it, Israel would eventually be left with no choice but to obliterate the entire ME. Only after killing all of her enemies will Israel see peace.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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staying the f out of it means no more $30B in aid from America.
Without the handouts from US taxpayers, Israel would be much more likely to make efforts to make friends in the neighborhood. Our aid does more harm than good.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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you sound like one of those `kill all the infidel` radical islamofascists.
(did I spell that right?)
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tanglang1 year, 8 months ago
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No, I was just stating the obvious. With all of her enemies saying that they will not rest until the Jews are dead, what choice does she have?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Fold the tents and move? :)
So let me understand ya here tang, what we are really doing is protecting all our cherished Arab and Persian allies from the wrath of Israel? Wow thanks, man. Our whole nation has been so confused for so long about what our Middle East mission really is.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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funny, but it is Israel that continues to invade Pal territory, as announced just last Friday.
On the other hand, it is the democratically elected govt of Hamas that is offering a ten-year truce.
Israel sure has been silent on that truce. One would think a country as threatened as you claim Israel is would be ecstatic over an offer of a truce. Yet their silence betrays their reluctance to approach the negotiating table.
4,300 Pals dead
1,000 Israelis dead
Israel`s cries of being the victim are long passed worn out.
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tanglang1 year, 8 months ago
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There is no such thing as palestine. The palestinians rejected the plan that would have given them a nation too.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Arrogant and foolish. Just like "giving" anyone a nation. Do you HAVE a nation to give someone? What about all the people already there when you "give" it to someone else. I know, let's split the part of the US between the Pacific and the Miss. among them. I'm sure the Californians would go for it, and just move east!
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ArgoNunya1 year, 8 months ago
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What really happened in The Middle East
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-h...
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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Here is another view of the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
http://www.positivepractices.com/PeaceEducation...
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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for a realistic history of the ME situation:
http://www.historyandpolicy.org/papers/policy-p...
The Palestine peace process: unlearned lessons of history
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Oh my. I am sooo sorry yall!!
I just caint stop laughin at the unbelievable idiocy of DanmLiburals comments.
They have simply FLOORED me!!
No WONDER DL aint been postin much of late. When he DOES post, he REWRITES history in the most amusingly bizarre and craaazie way!!
I LOVED this question he posed.
"How do you think Carter is going to spread peace?"
Liek reaching out to all opposing parties and trying to bring them together is (to DanmLiburals) the LEAST liekly way to make that happen!!
LOL!!
NO WONDER this guy supports GW and his craaazie Neo-Con ideeologie of attacke first and ask questions later.
I guess the flip side of this incredible comment is "The only way to spread peace is by invadin nations ... liek GW did to Iraq"!!
Again ... I am so sorry yall...
But that posting by DanmLiburals was, start to finish, the absolute most hilariously foolishly ignorant, willfully obfuscatory comment I think I eva read.
And I used to read Davey Halko!
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saintetienne1 year, 8 months ago
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"Libs. think with you head, not your emotions."
They can't. It's scientific.
Read "The Liberal Mind: The Scientific Causes of Political Madness", by Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr. M.D. and you'll find out that it's impossible for Liberals to separate their emotions from their reason.
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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Rossiter proved himself to be a charlitan on the Daily Show, he's just milking the dumbass psuedo-conned in America, you know them, the dittoheads.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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Theres a LOT of money to be made milkin them folk.
Ann Coulter is rakin in MILLIONs by simply throwin them Ne0-Con wannabes red meat to chew on.
Theres even a fella who wrote a book that Liburals are actually FASCISTS!
Hows THAT for pretzel logic?!
All to make money off us poor deluded, hate filled righties ...
Hey, some of us Conservatives dont even know were alive less we feel hate!
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ArgoNunya1 year, 8 months ago
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Stop the spin. Nazi Fascists were leftists:
http://thewwp.blogspot.com/2006/07/10-reasons-n...
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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I heard about that guy who is trying to claim Liberals are fascists.
Talk about trying to rewrite history!
You cannot say he is not setting his goals high. Gotta give that to him.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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An ACTUAL scientific study proves that our Conservative brains simply dont function when asked to consider more than one side of an issue.
I posted the story myself!
http://science.propeller.com/story/2008/02/24/g...
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hdthehn1 year, 8 months ago
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Goppy
Trying to have a reasonable conversation with damnliberals and his ilk is like trying to have a conversation with a perpetually spoiled, angry ten year old. In DLs world you, my friend, support and defend terrorists because you don't view reality the same way DL does.
He sees terrorism/liberalism as a liberal/terrorist conspiricy to undermine a republican's way of life.
Ditto for saintetienne, capecoralM, libsRfunny, Bobo, AlphaG, tanglang, slate, lovemylibs, etc...
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PapaWolf1 year, 8 months ago
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>>"Libs. think with you head, not your emotions."
>>They can't. It's scientific.
>>Read "The Liberal Mind: The Scientific Causes of Political Madness", by Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr. M.D. and you'll find out that it's impossible for Liberals to separate their emotions from their reason.
Do you believe "The Bell Curve" too?
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PapaWolf1 year, 8 months ago
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Wow. What a GREAT comeback. How can anyone even attempt to rebut such a well thought out argument?
You refer to a politically-biased book with little to no scientific evidence, & with what "scientific" evidence there was twisted into unrecognizable blather, clearly written to make money from a hord of anti-Liberal fanatic.
And I ask, that since you're so enamored w/this type of tripe, if you believe a similar type of book, another politically motivated piece clearly written to legitimize racist tendencies & beliefs.
And you come back with "you're a dumb bell."
Bravo. I commend you for that rebuttal.
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PapaWolf1 year, 8 months ago
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And just for giggles, here's a nice review of the Bell Curve:
A Review of the Bell Curve: Bad Science Makes for Bad Conclusions - http://goinside.com/98/3/postmod.html
Cracked - http://www.reason.com/news/show/29636.html
&
Curveball - http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/course/topics/...
as well as lots of others.
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Goppy1 year, 8 months ago
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You do Christian Conservatives proud, sainty.
You are one of the finest examples of the level of reason and debate among Christian Conservatives.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> Do you believe "The Bell Curve" too?
As a matter of fact, I do. As far as I know all the data the authors of this book used for their research was taken from official US databases and I've personally checked all statistical calculations there to prove that they were impeccable.
This being said, however, you may feel free to prove this research to be wrong.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> Could you please give a discussion on why Heckman's critique is invalid?
If and when Mr. Heckman or anyone else will show that it is VALID using statistical analysis of data (and not emotions or feelings) I'll gladly discuss it. Criticizing "The Bell Curve" using emotions, opinions and feelings as Mr. Heckman and all other criticizers did is as valid as disproving General Relativity by poetry.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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Well, if you insist I'll give you a simplistic explanation (in no way a scientific PROOF) why "The Bell Curve" may be correct:
Do you agree that some people are very smart and others are very dumb (Yes/No)?
Do you agree that the rest of us are somewhere between these two extremes of being very smart or very dumb (Yes/No)?
Do you agree that different groups of people (Males, Females, Blacks, Whites, Scandinavians, Asians, Africans) have DIFFERENT average weights, average heights, average skin color, average hair thickness,, average foot length (Yes/No)?
If the answer to all questions above is YES then it will take no less than God Almighty to make all these groups of people to have EXACTLY THE SAME average cognitive ability while being different in everything else.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> I am not entertaining one of your digressions.
Of course not. Answering my questions (even more, answering them HONESTLY) would require some thinking, wouldn't it?
Anyway, I've answered YOUR question.
If and when Mr. Heckman or anyone else will show that it is VALID using statistical analysis of data (and not emotions or feelings) I'll gladly discuss it.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> The revelation in The Bell Curve is not that there are differences in cognitive ability between people. The one point I presented in Heckman's critique does even dispute that point.
Well, this is what the Bell Curve is about. The 'critics' of the book complain about the "methodology" the authors used to find these differences. Unfortunately, neither them nor you ever attempted to offer BETTER alternatives making the "methodology" The Bell Curve authors used the best "methodology their critics knew. So, to summarize, the data there is valid, the statistical analysis of this data is correct and the only problem the critics have is the "methodology"...
It makes no sense to complain that the BEST is not good enough.
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PapaWolf1 year, 8 months ago
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AtheismIsReality
>>LOL
>>I knew you were full of Sh1t.
That's why I stopped replying. I don't even read his sh!t any more. He's shown that he's a racist, a bigot, and as far from a "thinker" as one can get.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> you went through an 845 page book full of statistics and confirmed the authors' methodology?
As I've said I've personally checked all statistical calculations there to prove that they were impeccable.
> Respond to this critique on method...
There is nothing to respond to. This article contains no statistical calculations or claims that the calculations in the book it refers to were wrong. The last sentence in the quote summarized it well:
>> These tests were designed to predict success in military training schools, and there is much evidence that they do so, although by no means are they 100-percent reliable.
No statistical tests are 100-percent reliable.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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I have to say to 'Tessylo', 'Ratskii', 'GWHayduke', 'scott4261' and 'wasntme' that I appreciate their agreement with my post above. Their negative voting means that they've read it and the absence of any comment against it means that they fully agreed with everything I had to say.
Cheers!
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Ratskii1 year, 8 months ago
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The GWB&Co version of world peace reminds me of an old Mad Magazine spoof on the TV show, The Rifleman. The rifleman comes into town and a citizen asks him who he's going to shoot today. He replies, "You." Bam. The Rifleman's son asks if he believes in peace. He answers, "Of course I do, and there ain't nothing more peaceful than dead bodies."
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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> I have been trying to refrain from writing any comments because there is no actual discussion on Propeller, just the usual put downs with no factual base.
and then you say this in the same post:
>Like he did in Iran by helping to Install a Islamo Fascist government?
DL, you are among the worst of the factless, baseless hatemongers who have nothing to add to the discussion.
You want to insult a man who has just done what your side said was the unthinkable. (fact that palestine agreed to recognize Israel years ago aside)
Face it, the only reason you are against a peace deal is because some guy just proved your neocon agenda a total lie, and he proved it over a weekend. You put your fragile little pride and pro-israel, anti-peace agenda above all of the lives that could and should be saved.
LD, just think. You won`t break anything but the cobwebs in your skull.
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Candida1 year, 8 months ago
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DanmLiberals: "Or how about the time when Carter wrote in his book that Israel doesnt have a right to exist?"
In which of his books does he say that and where? Since you have just complained that Propeller is full of "just the usual put downs with no factual base," I assume you can provide the exact reference.
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StarLord1 year, 8 months ago
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OK, I'll bite at this bait.
1. The Islamic Republic was established by the time Carter could react. Given first that the alternative was a brutal dictator (yes, Pahlavi was that and worse), and given second that he got the hostages out, you have a nerve complaining.
2. Chavez accepted with reasonably good grace his defeat in that referendum. Which proves that a) he's not as bad as you seem to think he is (mind you, he's not good either), and b) the vote was reassonably honest.
3. From certain perspectives (i.e., the perspectives of hte Arabs who have owned that land for 1,400 years), Israel has little room to argue. Given that historically Islam treated Jews better than Christianity did, you have no room to argue on that point, either.
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Endoscopy1 year, 8 months ago
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How do you negotiate with people who will not allow anybody except Muslims to rule the whole of the land they have conquered?
Hamas charter - http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
Article Eight:
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
Article Thirteen:
:
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.
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Endoscopy1 year, 8 months ago
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There is much more about how only the other religions can only be at peace while under Sharia law with Islam in control. That is basically the Islamic view of the world. The world of peace is that part under Sharia law and the world of war is everywhere else.
And if anybody thinks they don't mean it look at their history. How do you negotiate with people who view treaties as something to be broken after they gather their strength to fight?
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djn3nunez31 year, 8 months ago
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"How do you negotiate with people who view treaties as something to be broken after they gather their strength to fight"
Ask the Native Americans they have lots of experience with a culture the did exactly that, broke every treaty.
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Mutainia1 year, 8 months ago
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I've got some Native American blood flowing through my veins. It was mean of what America did to my ancestors, but, hey, my ancestors treated other tribes pretty creepy as well. And, although Cortez was a bastard, hey, thank the Great Spirit he arrived and put an end to vain heart carvings, proving that the sun would come up anyway. By the way. Way to go, Endoscopy. I KNOW the Jihadists will lie and say what you are presenting is a lie, and, of course, the Libs will believe them.
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StarLord1 year, 8 months ago
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The Jews were treated well by the Turks. Look up the meaning of the following word: dhimmis.
It means "people of the book", and is applied by moderate Islam to Christians and Jews, allowing them to worship as they please in private, and exempting them from public observance of the Moslem faith.
I have never noted such concessions from any Christian church which was the religion of 95% of hte people of any nation. Or does the Inquisition not ring a bell? I also seem to recall that the catholic Church, among others, expressly condemned such things as the separation of Chruch and State, the concept of democratic rule, the concept of a Bill of Rights, etc., etc., etc.
As far as I know, "Quanta Cura", the Papal Bull which did this condemning, has not been repealed.
Fundamentalist Islam is not alone in intolerance.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
That`s correct, but probably not in the sense you are thinking.
Jihad means `struggle`, firstly and foremostly personal struggle.
It`s pretty damn obvious by the fact that the Israelis have broken every peace accord, agreement, treaty, UN declaration or other to be decent neighbors and stop the apartheid. The Israelis assassinated their own PM who signed a peace accord. They attack their own military and police for dismantling two or three out of hundreds of illegal settlements. The Israelis claim the Palestinians are monsters and terrorists while the govt gives low-interest loans to illegal settlers who move into Palestinian territory.
The Palestinians agreed to recognize Israel in 2002 and again now.
The reason the Israel-before-America neocons are so upset is that this again brings the Israelis` lies to the light of day.
There are many good Israelis trying to stop the apartheid. BOL to them.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> It`s pretty damn obvious by the fact that the Israelis have broken every peace accord, agreement, treaty, UN declaration or other to be decent neighbors and stop the apartheid.
It's not so "obvious" to me. As far as I know Israel signed TWO peace agreements in the past, one with Egypt and the other with Jordan. Both are still in power.
Further, there is no and never was "apartheid" in Israel. All Israeli citizens have the very same equal rights guaranteed by Israeli laws.
> The Palestinians agreed to recognize Israel in 2002 and again now.
This is something new to me. I have a bit different information, namely that in September, 2000 the Palestinians walked out of peace negotiations and started a terrorist war that continues as we speak. in addition, both Palestinian Constitutions, the PLO Charter and the Hamas Charter call for destruction of Israel and declare that ANY settlement under ANY conditions is not acceptable.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Read the Bill of Rights, compare that to the damage the Bush admin has done to that doc, and then tell me again that Hamas` charter cannot be changed.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Yeah, instead of forcing the Israelis to the peace table, ending the terror on both sides, putting out the ME fire, and turning that region into a symbol of hope - you cons would rather smear the guy who is forcing progress on the stake-holders.
It would be funny if it weren`t so serious.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> ...instead of forcing the Israelis to the peace table, ending the terror...
Strangely enough, it was the Palestinian President Yasser Arafat who walked out of the peace table at Camp David and started a terrorist war. It makes little sense to "force" the OTHER SIDE to come back, don't you agree?
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Actually, Palestinian President Yasser Arafat was the one who signed the peace accord and was not assassinated by his own people for doing so.
Unfortunately, the next Israeli PM destroyed that and continued the apartheid as if no agreement had ever been met.
The discussions that Arafat walked out on were so one-sided (demanding complete surrender) that his people would have killed him/ignored it and Israel would not have obeyed it anyway.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> Palestinian President Yasser Arafat was the one who signed the peace accord...
Can you show me a link to this important document, if you don't mind? I'm interested to see the PEACE ACCORD signed by Palestinian President Arafat.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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signed by Yassir Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin on the White House lawn on September 13, 1993. Indeed it was a sub-clause that the Israeli generals, who took over the negotiations from the diplomats, never meant to implement.
The next years were not conducive for a continued peace efforts. They were characterized by violent opposition by militant groups on both sides that culminated in the assassination of Itzhak Rabin in 1995 and in Palestinian guerrilla attacks provoking a very harsh Israeli retaliation. But more importantly, the momentum was lost because Israel expanded its settlements in the areas promised to the Palestinians and maintained the same oppressive policies it had exercised in the previous years of occupation.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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In 1999, the Americans were called in to salvage the disintegrating peace process. Under the leadership of President Bill Clinton the same old three rules were revived. Israel was asked to dictate how the peace plan should look in 2000. It was one that had to win at least a minimal Israeli consensus before it would be presented to the Palestinians as a 'take it or leave it' offer. And nothing was learned from the previous attempt to impose an Israeli solution on the Palestinians by threats and force. In all the former attempts this failure to learn from the past had resulted in a vicious cycle of bloodshed and destruction. The same happened again in 2000: 'Pax Americana' instead of reconciliation meant another tragic chapter of violence.
http://www.historyandpolicy.org/papers/policy-p...
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Everything was supposed to change after Arafat signed Oslo. But while Israelis saw Oslo as the end of the war, Palestinians saw it merely as the first, conditional step toward peace. Today they still live with no state, no capital in Jerusalem. Israeli forces still occupy much of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, requiring Palestinians continually to move through humiliating military checkpoints. Jewish settlements housing 180,000 Israelis dot the territories. Palestinians have seen economic decline, while Israel's GDP initially took off.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,917...
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> ...Palestinians saw it [Oslo] merely as the first, conditional step toward peace.
Apparently, this is the reason that even eight years later Arafat REFUSED to include an "end of hostilities" statement in the final agreement, correct?
> Today they still live with no state, no capital in Jerusalem.
No wonder... Both were offered to them in Camp David and later in Taba and consequently rejected by Arafat.
> Israeli forces still occupy much of the West Bank and Gaza Strip...
Yes, and it will continue until the Palestinians will force their leadership to stop violence and ask for peace negotiations. They'll have to realize that the Camp David offers were one time deal that will not be repeated. In August, 2000 most Israelis still believed that the Palestinians were genuinely interested in peace. This is not the case anymore.
...and a "sub-clause" Arafat and Rabin signed in 1992 in no way was a "peace accord" you initially told us about.
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StarLord1 year, 8 months ago
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The Oslo Accords were a start. In this, each of Israel and Palestine acknowledged the other's right to exist.
Look up "Oslo II", too. It's all there - the document that was the foundation of a comprehensive peace treaty, signed by Arafat and Rabin.
Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated 37 days after signing Oslo II, by an Israeli extremist.
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Thinker221 year, 8 months ago
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> The Oslo Accords were a start. In this, each of Israel and Palestine acknowledged the other's right to exist.
I see that you did not read the Palestinian Charter (Constitution) yet, did you? This is what the Palestinian Constitution says:
>> Article 21:
The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/fd807e46661e36...
As you can see the Palestinian Constitution and your statement above (each of Israel and Palestine acknowledged the other's right to exist) contradict each other.
Who of the two is a liar here, the entire Palestinian Natioinal Council that approved and signed the Charter or "Starlord"?
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BigBadJohn6661 year, 8 months ago
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Jimmy Carter is a senile old peanut farming fool. He has achieved nothing with these filthy lying islammadanian animals.
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Mutainia1 year, 8 months ago
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Since it's basically Israel giving up land (like it did with Gaza only to get rockets and missiles fired into it's neighborhoods and school yards), looks like the only thing Carter did was give a feeling of legitimacy to terrorists. Nothing new from Ol' Jimmy Boy here.
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Mutainia1 year, 8 months ago
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"Stolen" land justifies missiles and rockets fired willy nillie into neighborhoods from territory handed over in the hopes of achieving peace? Also, does it justify having Palestinian children brain-washed to hate through things like "Farfur", the Muslim Mickey Mouse seen to be beaten to death by a BLACK Israeli agent?
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injest1 year, 8 months ago
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"Carter is the only one who could do this! Let's give him a great hand"
Do what?
FTA
Carter: Hamas will accept Israel
FTA
After Mr Carter's remarks, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stressed that Hamas would not formally recognise Israel.
In other words he accomplished NOTHING.
BTW Who the Flock told him to intervene on anyones behave?
We FIRED Carter in 1980 for good reasons. Who hired him back.
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