Freedom of Religion Under Attack! »
Posted by: PaganGodess 2 months, 2 weeks ago28 CommentsReflectReport this Story
Noteââ;¬"This isn't a happy, cheerful post about kittens and daisies. It's an angry post about religious freedoms. If you prefer to keep things of this nature out of your mind then it would be best to skip this post and simply read the others.
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Comments So Far: 28
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 2:40 p.m.An interesting post to say the least. I respect the opinion of the writer but I felt compelled to draw out this comment:
"They are following the Bible in many ways and I respect them for that because I know how hard it is to be a religious weird-o in our modern world."
I have recently come to believe in a concept which is not new but I have a deeper understanding of it today. In simple terms it is the statement "Unto thine own self be true." Which for me breaks down into two categories: those actions and beliefs that feel good to me and those actions and beliefs that feel bad. If it feels good to me (and I'm talking emotionally) then I will focus on those things only. If it makes me feel uncomfortable or otherwise label myself a "weird-o" then am I really being true to myself or am I conforming to someone else's idea of what I should be or do?
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 2:45 p.m."I homeschool my children. I teach them things that the Government probably doesn't want them to know, like the Constitution, and the role that Christianity has played in the foundation of our country. I teach them how far we have strayed as a nation from our Founding Father's original intentions."
We are ever expanding beings with new desires, and new wants. We have to be constantly looking forward and those things that may have been appropriate for us years ago, are not so now. So, why is it so important for some to remain as we were hundreds of years ago when there is so much positive out there to be created in our futures that we are in complete control of?
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 2:48 p.m.Religious freedom can never be taken away from the person who understands that it comes from within and who stops looking for it from without!
You can not control the actions of others. You don't even have to agree with their actions but allowing them to make their own choices and finding YOUR peace with it is EVERYTHING!
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not2needy
May 11, 2008, 7:12 p.m.Hi PG, good to see you back.
I'm all for Religious Freedom, as long as it doesn't involve harming children.
The woman who wrote this article was very well versed in the Bible, and some of the things i can agree with. HOWEVER, the women of the FLDS church are brainwashed, and submitted their daughters, (and it's coming out sometimes their sons) to sexual abuse from the men in the church.
This woman maintains that the call from the girl at the FLDS was a fake, and i'm not sure that it wasn't, HOWEVER, they found hundreds of teenaged girls married to and pregnant by OLD MEN!
This lady says she's not brainwashed, or subservient, but she follows the ways of the Bible. That's good, i admire her for having the willpower to be able to do that. As much as i can admire her stamina, i can't uphold any woman who will submit her children to any kind of abuse, sexual or otherwise.
These men knew what they were doing.
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not2needy
May 11, 2008, 7:28 p.m.Here is a link of a former FLDS member, a man. Good read.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2003232/posts
I also saw an interview with a woman on television recently. She said the FLDS mother's taught their daughters how to be home makers, and the father's taught their daughters how to be wives, raping them repeatedly. If they got pregnant by their fathers, it was because their faith wasn't strong enough, and there were abortions preformed without anesthesia as punishment. She had gotten pregnant by her father twice before leaving the church.
I simply can't imagine the torment these girls have endured for probably hundreds of years at the hands of a bunch of perverted old men, claiming it is in the name of God.
I have read the Bible, NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that a woman should submit to her father.
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 7:43 p.m.Hey N2N!
Thank you for your posts, those were very well worded as always. I am with you, I do not agree with what is happening to these girls and I do not necessarily agree with the writer of the post but I have to "allow" her to choose her words and her path. What she says can have no negative effects on me unless I allow them to.
I am learning to make my peace with the events around me even if I do not agree with them. It helps no one to get upset about events by reacting to them. Most will not understand what I am talking about but some will. I'm sure many would say that I am being selfish in that philosophy but I can be of no assistance to others if I act from negative emotion.
These people have the power to change where they are if they so choose and receiving help is a conscious choice. If and when these people are ready to receive it or believe that they need it then it will happen. Until then, we can not project what we believe to be right on to someone else. =D
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Eagle Eye
May 11, 2008, 10:07 p.m.Hi PG!!
I consider freedom of religion to be free to worship how ever we wish not how we are preached to. I also believe that there should be no organized religion, Jesus was against organized religion and temples, he preferred the open spaces of nature just like me!!!
Nice to see you girlfriend!!
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 11:30 p.m.Nice to see you too! =D
I agree that your faith is inside you and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. You must find your spirituality based upon what speaks to you and feels the best to you and nobody can tell you what that will be for you.
Cheers darlin'! =D
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thaw
May 11, 2008, 10:13 p.m.ok ok. settle down ladies.
i'm not going to have to seperate you two, am i??
good to read you ladies again.
you know, i'm not that religious, in the "formal" manner. but i respect everybody's right to practice their brand of spirituality in their own way.
some people, like the author, are just of a submisive nature. and as long as it is not administered in a forceful, degrading nature. i wish them luck.
reading the article, i was wondering if this was the same pg for the past. but, of course it is.
t.
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 11:35 p.m.Hey thaw!
Thank you for noticing that there might be something a little bit different in the way I think now.
I recently found something that is of tremendous value to me and I just want to pass it along to others. I discovered the art of "allowing" others to be who they are no matter what.
How are you doing? =D
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Stephen Johnson
May 11, 2008, 11:12 p.m.Welcome back, Kellie.
As for the linked article, I have to reserve judgement on whether the government acted properly or not until more details about the case come out. But if, as some allege, underage girls were being forced into marriage by the FLDS, some action had to be taken.
Catch you in another thread.
(((Kellie)))
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 11:37 p.m.Hey SJ!
Thank you so much for stopping by. (((((Stephen))))) right back at ya sweets! =D
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Idamilli
May 12, 2008, 5:22 a.m.She claims she's not brainwashed -- that's a joke and she's only deceiving herself; she bases her belief on being submissive to her husband on the biblical teachings -- if this particular husband smacked the hell out of her she'd most likely stay with him and believe that if only SHE were a better wife/person, he'd never hit her again. Yep, it would be all HER fault. If she's really gung-ho about Old Testament teachings, then she must remind herself she's "unclean" for a few days every month and shouldn't touch certain things. In that religion, the men get multiple wives (or more accurately, SEX PARTNERS) and the women are stupid enough to think that's just dandy. They continually allow their "husbands" to rule them, because obviously the husbands think their wives aren't bright enough to think for themselves...and in that religion, they aren't!
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Hmac
May 12, 2008, 8:19 a.m.FTA: "When I see these beautiful, virtuous, Christian women being persecuted by the state and I read that their children are being forced into foster care, because their parents have shielded from the world, the way the bible instructs us to, I am so angry I can't think straight."
Stop the presses!
First off, these "beautiful, virtuous, Christian women" aren't having their kids taken because of their religion, it's because THE KIDS EITHER HAVE BEEN, OR WILL BE **RAPED** IN AN ONGOING CYCLE OF ABUSE! *That* is why the kids were taken. If stupid-ass women over 17 want to live as part of a harem, that's their business, and likely no one would have done a thing. It's the CHILDREN BEING RAPED that's the problem, and the kids are raised to think it's NORMAL.
Second... "beautiful"? Have you *seen* pictures?
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Shadowolf
May 12, 2008, 11:32 a.m....anyone want my 2 cents worth???
...there should be both freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion...this is about aggravated child sexual abuse, raping and forcing children into "Marriages" with much older men...this is a criminal conspiracy masquerading as a religion...the ringleaders should be shot...I think it's highly ironic that so called "Christians" justify their crimes with quotes from mostly Old Testament,(Jewish Law) or the Pauline teachings...the only quotes I've seen from the Gospels are generic quotes that can mean literally anything; TOTALLY out of context...
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TrueProgressive
May 12, 2008, 5:02 p.m.If you've read some of my posts, you know I'm no fan of Christianity. Nevertheless, I find myself feeling concern for the FDLS women who TX authorities are keeping separate from their children. I don't trust law enforcement, especially TX cops, to maintain strict focus on enforcing the law and not stray into persecution of those with arcane religious beliefs or practices. I have no problem with raiding the FDLS compound to investigate child abuse allegations. People seldom seem to "get" that free exercise does not include practices that violate secular laws. It's why human sacrifice, e.g., no matter how sincere its alleged religious base, is still murder. Nevertheless, I'm not convinced authorities are keeping these women from their children solely because probable cause exists they facilitated child abuse, and not simply to punish them for living the "wrong" kind of life. BTW, am I the only one who looks at those women and thinks, "American burqa."
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AtheismIsReality
May 12, 2008, 5:10 p.m.You ever notice that a lot of people who talk about freedom of religion have no problem forcing their religion on their children?
I find that interesting.
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not2needy
May 12, 2008, 5:35 p.m.I think freedom of religion is just as important as freedom of speech, but forcing anything on anyone is abuse. Everyone should be allowed to make their own choices. My son chose to start going to church at a very young age, and at that time i wasn't even going to church, he went with friends. Hence he can never say I forced religion on him.
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Dicax_Maximus
May 13, 2008, 8:26 a.m.Hi PG - Welcome back !!!
As for the article, most of whatI wanted to say has already been mentioned above !!!
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not2needy
May 11, 2008, 9:45 p.m.Thanks PG, i think you're pretty beautiful too. I have always been a free spirit, some of my family would probably tell you i was too much so, lol!
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PaganGodess
May 11, 2008, 9:56 p.m.I don't believe there is such a thing as too much free spirit. =D
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PaganGodess
Cats, art, ephemera, all things Victorian, tarot, the paranormal, out-of-body experiences, Paganism, are a few of my favorite things. Let us also not forget that ...
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