Comments for Did Israel Drive Out the Arabs 60 Years Ago? »
Posted By SonOfTheMask 1 year, 7 months ago in NewsIsrael is about to celebrate its 60th birthday, but alone among the nations of the world, its legitimacy and right to exist continue to be considered matters of debate.
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SonOfTheMask1 year, 7 months ago
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FTA: "So even now, even after triumphing over so much adversity in its all too eventful first 60 years, Israel is not considered a normal country. The campaign of delegitimization launched by its enemies has succeeded to a tremendous degree in persuading ordinary people that Israel was conceived in sin. That sin was the dispossession of the Palestinians, the rightful inhabitants of the land now called Israel. Second only to the claim that Iran seeks nuclear power for peaceful purposes, this is the most sinister lie in circulation."
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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"What the Iranians are doing is they're right. At least they are signatories to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, unlike the zionist entity"
Funny, Abu. Sure they signed it. And then they were caught by the UN lying about their program over nearly 20 years.
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Goppy1 year, 7 months ago
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Comment meant to address Abumirahs post:
Abu, I don't know anybody that says Palestine was uninhabited.
What is known is that it was not a nation with a formalized government, right?
Liek it or not, poeple around the world who have been unable or unwilling to gather together under a Constitution and develop a government are 'fair game' to those who are better organized and have a clearer vision.
Indeed, did not the Palestinians reject the Peel Commision Partition plan which would have provided the framework for a Palestinian state?
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mr2041 year, 7 months ago
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Abu
First of all "uninhibited" is when you drink too much and you lose your "inhibitions".
Israel went to war (after being attacked) with it's Arab neighbors, more than once. Guess who won every time.
The winner of a war gets to decide the conditions of surrender for the loser, and has control over whatever was gained. As a result of Japan and Germany (the vanquished) agreeing to the conditions of surrender dictated by the U.S. and it's allies (the victors) at the close of WWII, both countries went on to rejoin the international community and became two major economic world powers.
When was the last time Mexico sent suicide bombers over the Rio Grande to get back Texas? Never, because they accepted their loss gracefully. The "Palestinians" don't want to move on, accept their loss, join the rest of the world and improve the lives of their people for one simple reason. Killing Jews is more important to them than their own children.
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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At least they had the good grace to lie. Israel is just defiant, denying that it has nuclear weapons but able to assemble them in minutes, and they are rewarded immensely for it.
How rich. Lying is a "good grace"? Is Iran not defiant of the UN? Israel neither confirms nor denies it's capabilities.
"Egypt would receive $1.3 billion in military aid and $400 million in economic aid, the same as current U.S. assistance.
"Egypt receives the second largest amount of U.S. assistance. Israel receives $2.3 billion in U.S. military aid per year."
http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2006/may/05_2...
Also a rather large reward, wouldn't you say?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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The last I checked, Egypt and Iran were not the same country. I wouldn't give any of them anything or sell any of them weapons or send soldiers to any of them, and I would bring home all the soldiers we have in the Middle East now.
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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FTA
"The Jews fled Arab nations because of persecution. Why did the Arabs flee the new Jewish state? (Note, many remained and became citizens of Israel.) Writing in the most recent issue of Commentary, Efraim Karsh reviews some of the new evidence that has come to light about the events of 1948. Not only did the Jews not force the Arabs out of their homes, they made many vain efforts to persuade them to stay put. The 6,000 Arabs of Tiberias, in a typical example, were forced to leave by their own leaders, over strenuous objections from Jewish leaders."
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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The lead article is just more zionist propaganda craappp that honest isrealis (like this one) don't even believe, but which can be fed to ignorant americans by israel-first traitors.
Oren Ben-Dor: Who are the real terrorists in the Middle East?
.. What exactly is being defended by the violence in Gaza and Lebanon? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state? I suggest the latter. Israel's statehood is based on an unjust ideology which causes indignity and suffering for those who are classified as non-Jewish by either a religious or ethnic test. To hide this primordial immorality, Israel fosters an image of victimhood. Provoking violence, consciously or unconsciously, against which one must defend oneself is a key feature of the victim-mentality. By perpetuating such a tragic cycle, Israel is a terrorist state like no other.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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Many who wish to hide the immorality of the Israeli state do so by restricting attention to the horrors of the post-1967 occupation and talking about a two-state solution, since endorsing a Palestinian state implicitly endorses the ideology behind a Jewish one.
The very creation of Israel required an act of terror. In 1948, most of the non-Jewish indigenous people were ethnically cleansed from the part of Palestine which became Israel. This action was carefully planned. Without it, no state with a Jewish majority and character would have been possible. Since 1948, the "Israeli Arabs", those Palestinians who avoided expulsion, have suffered continuous discrimination. Indeed, many have been internally displaced, ostensibly for "security reasons", but really to acquire their lands for Jews.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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To sustain that mentality and to preserve an impression of victimhood among outsiders, Israel must breed conditions for violence. Whenever prospects of violence against it subside, Israel must do its utmost to regenerate them: the myth that it is a peace-seeking victim which has "no partner for peace" is a key panel in the screen with which Israel hides its primordial and continuing immorality.
Israel's successful campaign to silence criticism of its initial and continuing dispossession of the indigenous Palestinians leaves the latter no option but to resort to violent resistance. In the wake of electing Hamas - the only party which, in the eyes of Palestinians, has not yet given up their cause - the Palestinian population of Gaza and the West Bank were subjected to an Israeli campaign of starvation, humiliation and violence.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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The truth is that there never could have been a partition of Palestine by ethically acceptable means. Israel was created through terror and it needs terror to cover-up its core immorality. Whenever there is a glimmer of stability, the state orders a targeted assassination, such as that in Sidon which preceded the current Lebanon crisis, knowing well that this brings not security but more violence. Israel's unilateralism and the cycle of violence nourish one another.
Amidst the violence and despite the conventional discourse which hides the root of this violence, actuality calls upon us to think. The more we silence its voice, the more violently actuality is sure to speak.
Silence about the immoral core of Israeli statehood makes us all complicit in breeding the terrorism that threatens a catastrophe which could tear the world apart.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentato...
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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Isreal is no firend or ally of america. They are the biggest albatross around our neck and cost us a fortune in both lives and money to continue their crimes against humanity.
Don't Blame The Inmates Of The Israeli Lunatic Asylum
Do No Evil â;; Israeli and other Jewish opponents of Zionism's colonial enterprise have described Israel as a "fascist" state. More appropriate terminology is lunatic asylum. Don't blame the inmates (Jewish citizens) for what's happening. They are products of Zionist brainwashing. Blame the wardens and management of the asylum (Israel's military and political leaders)
http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/03/07/...
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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If that makes me a "hatemonger", Mr. "I'm not a Muslim", well, so be it. But, Muslims have nothing to fear from me. IF they could read my heart and mind, they'd know I don't hate them AT all. Besides, it's by the "Grace of God" go I. If God so willed, I could be the confused guy wondering if strapping on bombs to kill non-Muslims will keep me from having my skin burned off and replaced, daily, throughout eternity, right now. I could be the one conflicted with, "No compulsion in religion!?!? But, but, WHAT about Quran 9:1-5, 29 through 30!?!?! OH how I could just blow myself up and END this madness for the MOST Compassionate, MOST Merciful, yet, says He/They wills off the right path, ALLAH, to sort out FOR me! AAAAAAUGH!!!"
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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So, Dionys, if my feeling sorry for Muslims, (those who come upon "no compulsion in religion" hitting up against those Quranic scriptures that are believed to have abrogated "no compulsion in religion"), and, that makes me a hatemonger for feeling sorry for them, then, hey, CALL me a hatemonger.
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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"I think the majority of Muslims, Jews, Christian, Buddhists, Hindus try to live moral lives. Most people are good."
Islam is infected with a very real and wide spread poison of a type of jihad that condones mass-murder of anyone, including other Muslims, for the purpose of enforcing a certain brand of the religion. It is alone among the major religions in having that barbaric tenet.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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You obviously have never worked with any Muslims or have any Muslims as friends. You should call a Mosque near your home and ask to visit. In my experience they are very welcoming and it will go a far ways to clearing up any misunderstanding that you have.
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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I don't believe I misunderstand the idea of radical jihad. It is widely preached, widely practiced and widely reported. Whether I work with Muslims or have Muslim friends is no matter. And I say again, "Islam is infected with a very real and wide spread poison of a type of jihad that condones mass-murder of anyone, including other Muslims, for the purpose of enforcing a certain brand of the religion. It is alone among the major religions in having that barbaric tenet."
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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My point is that there are probably practicing Muslims where you work or living in your town. Most Muslims, like most other people, lead quiet, non-descript lives of silent struggle. In my experience mosques love to have non-Muslims visit. Just give them a call and schedule some time to visit with your kids. You have more in common with 99% of the Muslims then you even know.
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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I'm thinking it's either they don't know their Quran very well (well, the English ones I'm familiar with), or, there is a strong thread of doubt keeping them from ending up like the 45 British Islamic medical doctors who tried to set off bombs at two Scottish airports a year ago.
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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"I don't believe I misunderstand the idea of radical jihad. It is widely preached, widely practiced and widely reported. "
Widely reported, certainly. In a world wide survey, however, radical Muslims represented less than 7% of the population and justified their stance with ideology rather than theology or Qur'anic quotes. 7% is probably far less than the number of evanglical Christians calling for the destruction of Arabs in general or "those Muslims" more specifically.
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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Muslims I've met were great, loving, caring people. I have no quams with them. It's the religion that, if these good caring, loving people study, can possibly end up coming upon NON-Muslim alienating Islamic scriptures that MIGHT make these nice Muslims to start thinking they are going to "be replaced" or, have their skin "burned off and replaced, daily", throughout eternity, inSPITE of having five times a day of BUTT in the air IF they don't "fight in the cause of Allah" (like the 45 British Islamic medical doctors ended up believing to the point of trying to destroy two Scottish airports...MEDICAL doctors).
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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Most Muslims are good and moral people also. Unfortunately, they are following a book, the Quran, that can make them not only appear as immoral, but, downright evil, insane, and, worst of all, un-trustworthy, thanks to the Quran allowing them to lie (read 3:28 and 16:106 OR, type into your web browser "al taqqiya". YouTube has "invstigateislam" and "CloningIsFun", which do an even better job of exposing this super creep factor inside Islam).
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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More of your out of context, English translation lies. Since you think the Bible is so full of lovely imagery and lacking in such "immoral..evil, insane," et cetera language:
Any person who performs religious rituals to other than Jehovah was to be executed:
Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
A call to God to destroy persons of other faiths:
Psalms 79:6: "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name."
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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Murder persons of other faiths: King Asa destroyed idols of other faiths in Judah and assembled all the people together. They swore an oath promising to murder any persons of a different faith.
2 Chronicles 15:10-15 "So they gathered themselves together at Jerusalem...And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. [The LORD] was found of them: and the LORD gave them rest round about."
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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Instruction to murder any of your relatives or friends if they spread other religious faiths:
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die..."
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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That's the problem with prooftexting. It almost never shares even the tiniest bit of truth with the reality of a religious tradition or the overarching understanding of the faithful. Because none of these quotes from the Bible represent my understanding of Christ's message or the understanding of the majority of Christians.
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Mutainia1 year, 7 months ago
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So, Dionys, how do the passages of Old Testament scripture above allow for the MODERN believer in them to "dissolve treaties" and "rise up to kill" those who don't submit to the God of the Old Testament like Quran 9:1-5 says for a Muslim to do in what sounds like something that is not ONLY an historic event, but, can be carried out in MODERN times like 45 British Islamic medical doctors apparently believed before trying to set off bombs at two Scottish airports? Let us know.
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engineer1 year, 7 months ago
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AbuAmirahComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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Redneck1 year, 7 months ago
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Carter is a JOKE! as is the concept of his book. He should present the concept of Jordan giving land to become a homeland to those who are the PLO and those groups clammering for Israel to be no more so they can possess the land. THAT would be a novel idea.
The reasons they want the land now is becaus Israel has caused it to blossom and produce much of the food stuff sold in the Middle East to all bordering lands of Israel. They think they can merely take it over and have the same success. Will not happen.
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vor1 year, 7 months ago
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We need to be concerned first and foremost with the interests of the United States of America. All of this fawning over Israel has gotten us nothing but trouble. They are the most secretive state in the world. Even our intelligence agencies do not know their specific nuclear capabilities.
Mona Charen has always been out of touch with reality and this article continues to prove that. To treat Israel as a priviledged child does them no good. Acknowledge that they have repeatedly ignored UN resolutions. Acknowledge that they have treated the Palestinians terribly. Acknowledge the truth. Do not let them slide because the are the "Chosen People". Find me any historical proof of the Exodus and then we will give that consideration.
The Holocaust was a horrible event but so have been all of the genocides of other peoples that have occured on this Earth. We should not be creating our foreign policy based on the interests of another nation.
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DropkickaLib1 year, 7 months ago
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vor1 year, 7 months ago
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Your reality check is lost in the mail!
If we are never going to have a fair discussion on Israel there will never be peace in the Middle East. The interests of Israel carry far too much weight in regards to our foreign policy. Someday this will become obvious to all of the American people.
"Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday
As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
Albert Einstein
I'll take his stance on this one...
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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I don't think that anyone is saying we have to treat Israel any more favorably than any other country. You are the only one who brought up "Chosen People."
How about human rights in Saudi Arabia, China, Somalia?
Do you believe in the right of Israel to exist?
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Bkumm1 year, 7 months ago
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And yet we do, very much, treat Israel differently than any other nation.
Human rights deserve recognition everywhere. Personally, I don't think we should trade with China and we should certainly boycott the Olympics unless they do something about their human rights abuses. We don't have the right to intervene in their internal affairs (iffy, toughy), but we don't have to trade with them either.
No, Israel has no more right to exist than any other nation. Look at what you said:
"I don't think that anyone is saying we have to treat Israel any more favorably than any other country."
"Do you believe in the right of Israel to exist?"
Does Ireland have the right to exist? Did Iraq under Saddam Hussein? Let's take a real extreme, did NAZI Germany have the right to exist? I'm not comparing Israel to NAZI Germany, but if one nation has the "right to exist" than so do all nations.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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I'm not sure what side you come down on, but yeah, I think they all have a right to exist. I'm not calling for the destruction of any country. Israel's existence is as legitimate as any other country.
I think we do treat Israel differently. I think we hyper analyze and are hyper critical of it.
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Bkumm1 year, 7 months ago
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I come down on the side of justice, for everyone. Sometimes (most of the time) that means that everyone doesn't get everything they want.
And I'm not calling for the destruction of any country either. I'm merely suggesting that the question of whether or not a country has a right to exist is not a legitimate one. The only reason that I can see that this question is even asked is because certain Arab (Muslim) nations and groups have said that Israel does not have the right to exist. So, if a person says that Israel has no more or less right to exist than any other nation then that person must be against Israel and by association anti-Jewish. I find that position simplistic.
We do treat Israel differently, we are hyper-protective and willing to look the other way when Israel does something inappropriate. That's not to say that your observation is wrong. But, it's not the whole story either.
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Redneck1 year, 7 months ago
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We have benefitted in many ways because of our association with Israel. They have developed tech gadgets and software that aid us today. AND God said, "I will curse those who curse you (Israel) and I will bless those who bless you." One can trace this out in history. Spain is a third rate power now. Why? She killed a million Jews during the Spanish Inquisition! Ceased to be a power not long after. Britian has suffered a similar fate since 1948.
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Georgia501 year, 7 months ago
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In numerous cases today and in history wherein a nation's atrocities, real or perceived, are at issue, the common response is that the atrocities, regardless of the degree of horror, in no way nullifies the legitimate sovereignty of a state. The sole exception is Israel, where it's existence is the very first item up for discussion whenever its atrocities, real or perceived, are enumerated.
I don't care why this is; I know only that such a reaction will have neither my buy-in nor the support of reasonable, civilized people.
Israel now, Israel forever. Period.
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Shadowolf1 year, 7 months ago
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Georgia;
I ABSOLUTLY believe Israel has the right to exist...I do NOT believe that Israel has the right to get away with their bullying their neighbors, and spying on us, not to mention skewing our own policies...it's like the neighborhood bully with the REALLY big cousin...
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Charlson1 year, 7 months ago
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I grew up reading Leon Uris and his novels depicting the lives of Jews. He's one of my favorite authors and many of my views about Israel was formed by his literary depictions with a historical flavor. I'm attracted to the plight of the underdog in almost any struggle because I identify with those who are persecuted and persevere. Among overwhelming odds the jews in Palestine created their state and flourished. But it hasn't always been kosher, as all nations have committed atrocious acts, so too has Israel. But their transgressions are pale compared to the Arab States. So with all of their baggage, they still deserve the right to exist in peace. Happy birthday Israel and may you have many more.
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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" But their transgressions are pale compared to the Arab States."
How can this be if the number of Arabs that die for every Israeli are multiples? How can this be when Israel constantly violates its borders and bombs other countries into oblivion, rolls tanks over children or has no problem crossing a border to raid someone while 'accidentally' killing their 14 year old daughter in the process.
The government (not the people)is just as guilty of atrocities as the Arab states and just as culpable.
The problem is that every time someone mentions *both* sides of the issue (or multiple sides of the issue), they're branded an anti-semite and the discussion terminates.
One should be able to criticize all sides of a problem so that all sides can be addressed to move people closer to peace.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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I think the first step has to be that those who Israel needs to negotiate with need to accept Israel's legitimacy. I don't think, from my own perspective, that I would negotiate with folks who call for my total destruction.
The first step needs to be an acknowledgment by Hamas of Israel right to exist.
I believe that Israel is willing to trade land for peace. I believe that the Israeli people would like nothing better than to live in peace, make stuff and sell it to other people.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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I'm sorry to post two comments in a row, but look at the Hamas Charter. This is the government that Israel is supposed to negotiate with.
The Hamas Charter, "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it...so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas...
What would you do?
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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I wouldn't do what the IDF does. They harrass innocent children and women, even pregnant women, who want to pass through the checkpoints. Grown Palestinian civilian men are terrorized at the checkpoints. The IDF has more sophisticated weapons, courtesy our government, which they misuse to terrorize innocent Palestinian civilians.
In addition, there is an acute water shortage in that part of the world. Israel's government channels most of the water that flows in the rivers located in the region into Israel (including water that flows in the Litani river, which is located at the borders of Lebanon & technically belongs to Lebanon). As a result, Israel has & uses 4x as much water, compared to the Palestinians (who are left with much less water).
There really is no difference between Israel's government & Hamas. Bost sides are using methods that are not conducive to any peaceful resolution.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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Israel is willing to accept a Palestinian homeland. The Palestinian government isn't willing to accept a state of Israel.
Easy for you to say what you wouldn't do. How about if people shoot at you from schools and hospitals, or use little kids and women to smuggle weapons and bombs or use ambulances with the red crescent to smuggle munitions?
You wrote, "There really is no difference between Israel's government & Hamas." There really is. I'm sorry that you don't see it. The IDF wears uniforms and has rules of engagement like our UCMJ. Israel prosecutes soldiers who violate the rules. Hamas supporters dance in the streets and hand out candy when a suicide bomb kills Israeli civilians. I haven't seen Israelis celebrate when the IDF takes action.
I think there can be plenty of finger pointing on both sides. The question is how do we achieve a lasting peaceful solution.
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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I respect your opinion, and I have mine. I don't believe Israel is willing to accept the right for Palestine to exsit as a prosperous place. I also don't think Israel is willing to have a fair division of scare resources between Israel & Palestine.
The IDF does not follow the rules of engagement. They harrass & torture innocent civilians, civilians who are not involved with Hamas in any way. Civilians who pass through the checkpoints are not shooting at the IDF, but the IDF still harrasses & tortures them. They channel water from the Litani river, which belongs to Lebanon, into Israel.
The Palestinians are left with much, much less water.
I don't believe there will ever be peace in that part of the world, unless God performs a miracle. The Gaza strip is a black, dark hole full of poverty & despair. Israel's government does not always prosecute IDF personnel who abuse their authority, but they put on a good show for the public.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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"1982: The Palestinians are "..beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the "Beasts"', New Statesman, 25 June 1982."
"1983: "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983."
"1989: "Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989."
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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"1901: Israel Zang wrote in1901 that Palestine was a "land without people for a people without land."He retracted the statement in 1920 upon admitting evidence it was filled with Arabs."
"1937: "We must expel Arabs and take their places." David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985."
1983: "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983."
"1969: "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."Golda Meir, March 8, 1969."
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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I don't think taking a bunch of quotes out of context is useful. Especially when the quotes are meaningless without context. For instance, "Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
Now Israel has a functioning judicial system that closely matches our own. Israel even allows Muslims to opt out of it's secular system and practice their own form of Islamic law for family matters. So the alleged quote of Sharon jsut doesn't make sense.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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Bull puckie. The israeli justice system is about as racist as it gets and actively discriminates against non-jews. Why do you tell us such obvious lies?
Deputy FM: Israel racially discriminates against its citizens
Religion â;; "It turns out that in the state of Israel it is permissible to shoot citizens, provided that they are the right citizens," Whbee said, referring to the fact that those injured were not Jewish, but Druze. He added that "It is evident that the blood of some is more valuable than that of others."
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2008/04/18/...
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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That is one reason why non-jewish citizens of the country are calling for major changes.
Arab Israelis mark 'catastrophe' of Israel's creation
News â;; Thousands of Arab Israelis rallied on Friday to commemorate the "Naqba," Arabic for the catastrophe which they say occurred when the state of Israel was created 60 years ago.
http://news.propeller.com/story/2008/05/10/arab...
Arab Israelis call for right of return
News â;; ARAB Israelis marched today for the right of return for refugees who fled their homes during the 1948 war that followed the creation of Israel as the Jewish state.
http://news.propeller.com/story/2008/05/09/arab...
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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It's a tough game of poker to play. I raise you two blown off arms and a dead mother.
1993
Sept 24, 1993
Yigal Vaknin, of Basra
Yigal was stabbed to death in an orchard near the trailer home where he lived near the village of Basra . A squad of the HAMAS's Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responsibility for the attack.
Oct 9, 1993
Dror Forer
Aran Bachar
Dror and Aran were killed by terrorists in Wadi Kelt in the Judean Desert. The Popular Front and the Islamic Jihad 'Al-Aqsa Squads' each publicly claimed responsibility.
Oct 24, 1993
Two IDF soldiers;
Ehud Rot, Staff Sgt. (res.), age 35
Sgt. Ilan Levi, age 23
Ehud and Ilan were killed by a HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squad. The two entered a Subaru with Israeli license plates outside a Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, whose passengers were apparently terrorists disguised as Israelis. Following a brief struggle, the soldiers were shot at close range and killed. Hamas publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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Oct 29, 1993
Chaim Mizrahi, resident of Beit-El
Chaim was kidnapped by three terrorists from a poultry farm near Ramallah. He was killed and his body burned. Three Fatah members were convicted of the murder on July 27, 1994.
Nov 7, 1993
Efraim Ayubi of Kfar Darom
Efraim was working as Rabbi Chaim Druckman's personal driver when he was shot to death by terrorists near Hebron . HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the murder.
Nov 9, 1993 |
Salman 'Id el-Hawashla, age 38,
Salman, an Israeli Bedouin of the Abu Rekaik tribe, driving a car with Israeli plates, was killed by three armed men driving a truck hijacked from the Gaza municipality, in a deliberate head-on collision.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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Dec 1, 1993
Shalva Ozana, age 23
Yitzhak Weinstock, age 19
Shalva and Yitzak were shot to death by terrorists from a moving vehicle, while parked on the side of the road to Ramallah because of engine trouble. Weinstock died of his wounds the following morning. Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responsibility for the attack, stating that it was carried out in retaliation for the killing by Israeli forces of Imad Akel, a wanted HAMAS leader in Gaza .
Dec 5, 1993
David Mashrati
David, a reserve soldier, was shot and killed by a terrorist attempting to board a bus on route 641 at the Holon junction. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group claimed responsibility for the attack.
Dec 6, 1993
Mordechai Lapid
Shalom Lapid, age 19, (Mordechai's son)
Mordechai and his son Shalom (Peace) were shot to death by terrorists near Hebron . HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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Dec 22, 1993
Eliahu Levin
Meir Mendelovitch
Eliahu and Meir were killed by shots fired at their car from a passing vehicle in the Ramallah area. HAMAS claimed responsibility.
Dec 23, 1993
Anatoly Kolisnikov, of Ashdod
Anatoly, employed as a relief watchman at a construction site in Ashdod , was stabbed to death while on duty.
Dec 24, 1993
Lieut.Col. Meir Mintz, Commander of the IDF Special Forces in the Gaza area. Meir was shot and killed by terrorists in an ambush on his jeep at the T-junction in Gaza . The HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squads publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.
Dec 31, 1993
Chaim Weizman
David Bizi
David and Chaim were found killed in a Ramle apartment. ID cards of two Gaza residents were found in the apartment, together with a leaflet of the Popular Front 'Red Eagle' group, claiming responsibility for the murder.
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walden31 year, 7 months ago
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1994
Jan 12, 1994
Moshe Becker, of Rishon Le-Zion
Moshe was stabbed to death by three Palestinian employees while working in his orchard. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the murder.
Jan 14, 1994
Grigory Ivanov
Grigory was stabbed to death by a terrorist in the industrial zone at the Erez junction, near the Gaza Strip. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.
Feb 9, 1994
Ilan Sudri
Taxi driver, Ilan was kidnapped and killed while returning home from work. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group sent a message to the news agencies claiming responsibility for the murder.
Feb 10, 1994
Naftali Sahar
Naftali, a citrus grower, was killed by blows to his head. His body was found in his orchard near Kibbutz Na'an.
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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Thank you for posting your quotes. I'm not going to argue/refute any of them.
Because, like I said, both sides (Israel & Palestine) hate each other immensely. It is my personal opinion that there is no diffrence between Hamas, IDF, Sharon, Olmert, Nasrallah, Bush (it's a long list of people who don't use methods conducive to any type of peaceful resolution).
Peace in that (& other parts of the world) will continue to be an elusive thing, as long as the leaders who have the power to bring about peace continue to use the same methods they have used until now.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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Well Walden, if the palestinians resisting racism and ethnic cleansing in their own land are so evil, what should we make of colonial zionist invaders that kill 5-10 time more people? Bigger criminals and more evil no?
Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed Since September 29, 2000
119 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 982 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
Israelis and Palestinians Killed Since September 29, 2000
1,044 Israelis and at least 4,719 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
Israelis and Palestinians Injured Since September 29, 2000
6,845 Israelis and 32,213 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (View Source)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_i...
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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"You don't think Israelis would rather have Palestinians manufacturing electronics then bombs and missiles?"
No, I don't. Hamas & Israel's government (and the majority of civilians on both sides) hate each other immensely and would love to wipe each other into non existence.
With that said, I do know there is a small & of civilians on both sides (Israel & Palestine) who don't wish for that, but they have no power to bring about any peaceful resolution. Overall, people who live in Palestine live in much, much more poverty & despair then people who live in Israel do. Like I said, Israel's government is able to channel more water & natural resources into Israel (courtesy our government's help) then Hamas or Fatah could ever channel into Palestine.
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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"Overall, people who live in Palestine live in much, much more poverty & despair then people who live in Israel do."
It is by their own choice. Rockets from Gaza every day and attacks on border trade points do not encourage Israel to welcome the people into their economy.
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pcknowledge1 year, 7 months ago
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I see some people would like to place all the blame on one side. This approach won't bring about any peaceful solution either.
The day both sides are willing to admit they are using methods not conducive to a peaceful resolution is the day when both sides will be willing to work towards a peaceful solution. From what I've heard & seen so far, that day will never come.
"Courtesy towards opponents and eagerness to understand their view-point is the ABC of non-violence."
Mahatma Gandhi
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AtheismIsRealityComment removed: Retracted by user3 Replies
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Bkumm1 year, 7 months ago
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I'll only add a little to this discussion by asking a couple of questions:
1. Why do we keep asking the question of whether or not Israel has a "right to exist"? Now, I know the short, knee-jerk answer, but think about it more deeply. Israel is, much like Iraq, a country made up out of whole cloth. It is a country forcibly made real against the wishes of much of its population at the time. So, does it have the right to exist? It's a stupid question. Israel exists and as long as the iron fist (and open wallet) of the U.S. stands behind it, it will exist.
2. I have yet to understand why so many Christians get all goopy over Israel. It's just a country. It's not even that nice of a country to it's neighbors. It bombs them and assassinates their leaders if they don't like them. They're kinda terroristic. But, because it's Israel the emotion peaks and we don't care about the actions. Hypocrisy.
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TonyByron1 year, 7 months ago
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Israel has not started several wars to end the existence of it's neighboring countries.
It has fought in self defense many times, captured land, destroyed invading armies and then stopped. It has returned almost all territories it won in the wars. It could easily decimate it's most hostile adversaries if it wished, it does not wish that. They only want to live in peace without the constant threats and attacks of those who want to erase the country.
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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"Israel has not started several wars to end the existence of it's neighboring countries."
Sure it has. Ask anyone, Muslim OR Christian, from Lebanon what their experience has been over the last 40 years with regards to Israel.
Or you can ask the dead 14 year old girl recently killed in a cross-border raid by the IDF.
"They only want to live in peace without the constant threats and attacks of those who want to erase the country."
If this were true, their words and actions would support that. Unfortunately building tens of thousands of settlements in Palestinian territory doesn't support that theory. Nor do many of their other actions.
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Bkumm1 year, 7 months ago
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No, but that's not really the question. Has Israel been a good neighbor to the Arab countries? The knife cuts both ways.
And some Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan) have been good neighbors to Israel over the last 25 years or so. Some nations (Iran, Syria) have not been good neighbors. Israel hasn't been a particularly good neighbor either.
We're never going to be able to help solve the problems in the ME, much like here in the US, until we're willing to look full in the face the faults of our friends and the failures of our own policies.
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Georgia501 year, 7 months ago
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When Israel rolled through Lebanon in the 80s and had Arafat up against a (sea) wall, they chose to back off. In leaving Lebanon, they extracted 6 divisions worth of materiel. The logistics alone in moving all that equipment put a strain on Israel's transportation infrastructure.
The Lebanese people themselves have no claim on Israeli or Palestinian land. But when they allow their territory to be used against Israel, they will have to pay the consequences.
Speaking of which, how's that working out for them today?
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Bkumm1 year, 7 months ago
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The Lebanese people have not ever (to my knowledge) placed a claim on Israeli land and the Lebanese were not strong enough to keep Hezbollah or the PLO out of their territory when undermined by the US, France, England, Syria and Iran.
By your definition of what the Lebanese people "allow", the 9/11 terrorists were justified in their actions. Ludicrous.
There are legitimate issues on all sides. What we need is less chest thumping and more clear thinking.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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I think the "right to exist" debate is just silly. Every country's existence is by its own might, the might of its friends, and the indulgence of its enemies. This is true for all nations, always has been, and always will be, and Israel is no exception.
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taciturnman1 year, 7 months ago
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In numerous cases today and in history wherein a nation's atrocities, real or perceived, are at issue, the common response is that the atrocities, regardless of the degree of horror, in no way nullifies the legitimate sovereignty of a state. http://www.youtube.com/user/MBedroomFurniture The sole exception is Israel, where it's existence is the very first item up for discussion whenever its atrocities, real or perceived, are enumerated.
I don't care why this is; I know only that such a reaction will have neither my buy-in nor the support of reasonable, civilized people.
Israel now, Israel forever. Period.
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yendisnivak1 year, 7 months ago
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Poor, pathetic people, those Palestinians! Losers of the world, along with so many other arab countries. Their leaders(?) make one poor decision after another and then blame someone else for their problems. Just imagine what a wonderful area the middle east could be if those people could become a part of this century and start thinking rationally. What possible gain does Israel get from occupying these dysfunctional peoples' lands? They are nothing but trouble to Israel and the rest of the region.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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This article is nothing more than the usual zionist propaganda craaappp to cover up their crimes against humanity. Due to censorship in the american media, perhaps there are still some americans ignorant enough to fall for such lies, but the world knows better. Here is an honest israeli professor:
The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
by Ilan Pappe
Univeristy of Haifa
The book shows that in 1948, the Zionist movement waged a war against the Palestinain people in order to implement its long term plans of ethnic cleansing. The Arab world tried to prevent this cleansing, but was too fragmented, self-centered and ineffective to stop the uprooting of half of Palestine's native population, the destruction of half of its villages and towns and the killing of thousands of its people.
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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And since that ethnic cleansing was successfully implemented in almost 80% of Palestine without any global or regional repercussions - the ethnic cleansing policy continues ever since 1967 in the remaining 20% of the country. Creating a Jewish state in historical Palestine cleansed of Palestinians is still the ideolgoical infrastructure on which the state of Israel is based....
...The book uses the accepted scholarly definition of Ethnic Cleansing to show its academic as well legal applicability to the case of Palestine and argues that since in the eyes of the world - including the State Department and the UN - ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, this how we should view the Israeli actions in the past and ISrael's policies in the present....
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/3041
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HMMaceComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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And, of course, honest isrealisd tell us openly that americans are still being suckered into continuing support of the zionist crimes against humanity.
The Mega Prison of Palestine
... Israel is pursuing a genocidal policy against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, while continuing the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank...
... the West Bank is made of small ghettos and the one in Gaza is a huge mega ghetto of its own. There is another difference: the Gaza Strip is now, in the twisted perception of the Israelis, the ward where the "most dangerous inmates" are kept. The West Bank, on the other hand, is still run as a huge complex of open air prisons in the form of normal human habitations such as a village or a town interconnected and supervised by a prison authority of immense military and violent power....
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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... the mega prison system in the meantime continues unabated and the punitive measures of its authority are claiming the lives of many more children, women and men in the Gaza Strip.
As always it is important to be reminded that the west can put an end to this unprecedented inhumanity and criminality, tomorrow.... We can only pray it will not be too late for the victims of this horrific Zionist invention: the mega prison of Palestine.
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/16799
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hyperbola1 year, 7 months ago
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Why do so many pseudo-americans support racist policies that are clearly in violation of the fundamental principles of american democracy? Could it be that we have too many israel-first zionist traitors in our government, politics and media. We should start supporting honest moral israelis (like this one) instead of the right-wing racists.
Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State
Religion â;; The Annapolis meeting is a con. We should say loud and clear that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state. To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others.
http://religion.propeller.com/story/2007/11/21/...
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Sandmn1 year, 7 months ago
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Wow. I stop by, after all this time and I find the same arguments. Hyperbola, you will never convince these Israel loving cowards to admit their lies and propaganda's. Some of the world knows but most don't care, enough. At least, not yet. Wait until the Zionist machine comes knocking at their doors with bulldozers and bullets, then it may be a different story. I believe the only chance for middle peace, is the same chance that has existed all along. That is to simply destroy Israel. Lock, stock and yarmulke. Sadly, that would also end the innocent Jewish population, but it is after all, their corrupted politics that is destroying the middle east and our nation with it. F" em all. Dancing with you bunch of pansies is useless. This blog and all like it should be shut down, then watch the cockroaches run. You really want to help? Grab a gun and defend our nation from the onslaught of Zionist controllers. So long ya sissies
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