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Posted by: namecritic 1 year, 7 months ago
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namecritic1 year, 7 months ago
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Teagen1 year, 7 months ago
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Huh? People living outside of the United States hold what's called a US Passport, that's an ID. If you're born outside of the USA, you have to make a choice on citizenship when you become either 18 or 21, I don't remember anymore. A passport would be issued anyway.
As to the claims of costs, in my home state, Wisconsin, there have been charges of voter fraud. The GOP, offered to pay the entire cost for the program but the other side would have nothing to do with it.
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Teagen -- My children (now 25-30) were born outside the US (to foreign parents), brought here as infants, and naturalized when they were under 5. They were never asked to make the choice you describe at 18 or 21; don't remember whether Mrs. Chevydog and I were asked by proxy to renounce their native citizenship. None of them have a passport.
As far as they're concerned, they're Americans who were born in Country X. They have naturalization papers; the pictures (taken when they were under 5) look very little like they do now.
So far, they've lived normal lives with their background never causing a problem for them or anyone else. I'm not about to support anything that's going to cause problems for them now.
Can't really adress dead people voting. But I know that Mrs. Chevydog has never seen a death certiciate for her father, who died in NY in 1968. Though he's long dead, I don't think she could prove it.
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Wolfie --
Maybe they will. But it burns me when people like me (and them) who have had a perfectly legitimate right to vote for their entire lives might be questioned about it. I don't mind stopping voting fraud, but the price of stopping people who are entitled to vote seems too high.
Mrs. Chevydog's father is happily resting in Arlington, and she's never voted for him. He had about three Social Security numbers (two gotten for him by the Army plus one he got when he became a self-employed minister). For some reason, Social Security never figured this out until more than 30 years after he died. Government bureaucracy is sometimes almost as bad as the private sector version.
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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Well, I'm glad that Mrs chevydog isn't voting for her diseased father. He must have been a veteran, my thanks to him for helping defend the country.
You and your children don't have a legitimate right to vote unless you can identify yourselves and prove you are citizens and residents of the state, county and precinct where you desire to vote. So get over being burned up it's not a big thing. lol
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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Chevydog, I have a question:
How do your children prove their US citizenship now? Certainly, there are times when one has to, for various reasons: certain types of aid programs, travel to and from foreign countries, etc.
On such occasions, I have to show a birth certificate. What do your kids do?
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Sven --Actually as far as jobs, school, and most of the other stuff I'm aware of, they've never had to.
Two of them went to Mexico on class trips. It surprised me to learn that, although I wouldn't need a passport, the documents they needed were basically the ones to get a passport. (This was all pre-9/11 era.) The same thing was true for Canada when we visited there. INS recommended passport, but there wasn't enough time to do it; so we went the document package route. This included--MO birth certificate (shows them born in Korea), copy of custody order, copy of adoption order, naturalization papers. Most of this stuff I would've as soon left locked in a drawer at home. You never realize how hard it is to save stuff until you try.
I guess I was bugged to find that their doc requirement was more than mine. Thought that naturalization endowed them with the same privleges I have. But I guess that's not completely true.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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It's too bad they have to face that hurdle. Perhaps having a passport would solve that document mess? I know that now passports are required for Mexico and Canada. I went to both when only a birth certificate was required myself, and confess that I don't have a passport.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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I know Teagen very well and I know the cases she's talked about throughout this topic. We have huge amounts of voter fraud in Milwaukee. The DNC really is the problem here. They have control over the Election Commission, DA's office, Sheriff's department, city hall and most of the State's checks & balances. We've had press from the local ABC affiliate video tape people from the New York DNC buy votes with smokes and no one was ever charged. The nursing home Teagen mentioned is where my grand mother lives and I've seen it. They have them sign off on the absentee ballots that are filled out for them. BTW-this is home that works with Alzheimer's patients mainly.
As to your comments, you make no sense. If they were born to non-US parents outside of the USA, how can they be naturalized citizens? Unless you signed the forms relinquishing their rights when you adopted them. If you didn't there's a very good chance they're illegal.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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everyone who either naturalizes or is a citizen born outside the US has PROOF of their citizenship; if they've lost it, they can get a duplicate copy.
If I lose my birth certificate, I have to appy to the County Registrar to get a duplicate. It's not impossible, and isn't an extraordinary burden to exercising one's suffrage.
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Sven-- Not completely true on your second point. PA, in which I was born, hasn't used county clerks for that function since the 1930's. There is a state agency for that. But point taken.
On your first point-- I can't speak for now; but when my children were naturalized in the 1980's we were told (in almost these words):"If you lose this certificate, it can't be replaced." Puts the fear of God in you. My mind may be a little hazy because that was a ways ago; but I don't think I was imagining it. Still, given the realities of modern life, it doesn't seem to make much sense.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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I hope that what you were told about your childrens' naturalization certificates is NOT true. That would be quite ridiculous, to NOT be able to replace such an important document. I hope whoever told you that was mistaken. If not, it sounds like the Congress has some work to do with ICE.
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BuffaloJ1 year, 7 months ago
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"Voting is a right of citizens and proof of citizenship is not asking too much."
Yes it is! This is complete BS! I was born here, I have a Social Security card and a drivers license. I already have to register to vote. There is no reason they cannot tie the voting system in with the Social Scurity and drivers license system so not only would I not have to prove I am a citizen in order to vote but I would not have to go thru the register to vote cr*p.
I have more than enough proof in my wallet to prove I am who I say I am. I sure as heck should not have to jump thru more hoops to present more proof when the proof I can already provide is obviously more than adequate.
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Endoscopy1 year, 7 months ago
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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Oh no, meso, 'cons' as you call us have NOT FORGOTTEN. If you listened to any 'con' talk radio, you would know that.
McCain is persona non grata when it comes to the amnesty issue. Every time he talks about it, I start a slow burn.
There is no hypocrisy going on around here, just a lot of holding one's nose and looking away while pulling the lever for McCain, you can be sure of that.
You don't think that because of McCain's outrageous position on amnesty that a conservative would vote for Hillary or Obama, do you?
Oh yeah, that's right, Ann Coulter was voting for Hillary.
Her latest column was: "One down, TWO to go!"
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
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"There is no hypocrisy going on around here, just a lot of holding one's nose and looking away while pulling the lever for McCain, you can be sure of that."
--Just for the sake of clarification, aren't you basically saying that when cons argued back in '04 that the main reason they couldn't conceive of voting for Kerry was because he was a "flipflopper," they were pretty much lying through their teeth and merely voting for Bush for the sake of the party (regardless of the negative impact he was having on our country)? What's more, isn't that in essence what you and many cons are doing AGAIN today--by doing a total 180 on the evils of flipflopping, voting for McCain (when he's virtually assured us that he plans to continue down the same wrong-headed path as Bush has all these years)? And yet you still bristle when I label you people con artists?
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BuffaloJ1 year, 7 months ago
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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Well, BuffaloJ, let's just try it and see if it helps. I really don't know if illegals will go to the trouble to get another id just to vote, do you? It really isn't just about illegals voting it's about dead people voting and people voting more than once and people voting in the wrong states and precincts. I think this might help stop all that.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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Wait a minute tkyrchncs,
no one pays MY gas costs to drive to the polls and vote. My polling place is at the top of hill I hate driving up, much less walking to. I can't imagine climbing that hill in a wheelchair, yet I haven't heard of any transport for handicapped people to go vote.
My grandmother is 93, can hardly walk, and her polling place is blocks away. No gives her a ride to the polls, except me.
There are all sorts of 'obstacles' to voting already. This new one doesn't seem that harsh, in perspective, does it?
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
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" I really don't know if illegals will go to the trouble to get another id just to vote, do you?"
--Worse, you "really don't know" that voter fraud is some widespread problem or that it's threatened the GOP in any way. The reason anyone with a brain knows that cons are fabricating and lying on this issue is because you claim to be concerned about the integrity of voting results but you're carefully cherry-picking only the aspects of the voting process you believe threaten the GOP. You're not credible on this issue at all because no one has forgotten 2000 when you people didn't give a rats arse about the integrity of the process when results were tilted in your favor. No one believes you.
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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Interesting that the 'advocate' would come out against it because illegal's chances of voting may be hindered.
Sure we have Drivers Licenses and SSI cards, but now they are so easy to counterfeit for the right price.
I don't know what the answer is, but I for one want Real citizens of the United States of America voting in our elections, not others that are from other countries, dead people or people that vote multiple times.
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mesodude1 year, 7 months ago
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To the extent that any exists, I'm all for eliminating voter fraud. While we're at it, we should eliminate voter intimidation (which is, in fact, really what we're talking about in this particular case) as well. I'd also like to see cons as eager to to condemn tactics such as "operation chaos" as they are to slam and attack any and everything moveon.org does.
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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You Dems should have thought about that when your side crossed the line and voted Republican in an open Primary it's a goose and gander thing,, you can't complain now after your side did the same thing,,,,, besides,,,, in this nation anyone has the right to vote for those they wish to vote for, if they are citizens
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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But it's ok if the Daily Kos wants it?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/10/2713/87...
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15297
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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Why should I have to have anything (I don't really, though I do have birth certificate, dl, passport, ss card, voter registration card)? I am supposed to carry all that and my utility bill to the polls because you guys in the state capital say so? I am known personally to the registrar, the captain of the polls, and every poll worker in my town. Why don't you guys lay off and let the people running the polls determine what they need where they work?
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Nixie1 year, 7 months ago
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"I am known personally to the registrar, the captain of the polls, and every poll worker in my town."
Whopdeedoo.
Not everyone enjoys the same level of celebrity that you do. Should they not get to vote because the poll workers don't recognize them on sight and cheer their name when they walk into the polling place?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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I live and vote in a very small place, I went to hs with all these people, or their parents. My point was let the people who have the problem handle the problem. Why create unnecessary burdens on everyone when only a few precincts are even potentially problematical?
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Buffalo -- Don't know your age. But when I got my Social Security card (about 1962) I was put against the wall and told "This is not an ID card; it is against Federal law to use it as an ID card." Yet all sorts of organizations seem to require it to be used as such.
Also, do you sign you name the same way every time? I've varied throughout my life. Sometimes I'm asked for a middle initial, sometimes for a full middle name. Sometimes I've used a Jr., sometimes not. There was even a phase when I used my middle name only to distinguish me from my Father. Any "name guardian" who wanted to make issue with this could; I've had it happen to me. IMHO, this opens the door to much more fraud than it would ever prevent.
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ADAGUY1 year, 7 months ago
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For the first time, I have to agree with Endoscopy. Anyone can obtain a social security no. Legal or not! A photo ID voter registration card is what is needed. It must be available to only those who can prove citizenship!
Then the only problem will be addressing the election fraud that is done by the election officials themselves, like we recently witnessed in Ohio!
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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There are plenty of examples where a "Real ID" has been required and kept US Citizens from voting. The most recent example was a large group of Nuns who came to Notre Dame to vote. The people at the voting station even knew their fellow nuns and their history. Some had expired passports (which were not allowed), but as most were in their 80's and 90's, did not drive and did not travel overseas they didn't have a valid (enough) ID.
The cost of a passport hovers around $80, which is quite a bit of money for those living on a fixed budget, not to mention for people who may be starving. A state ID may be cheaper, but for many (including those nuns) it represents a real obstacle in terms of both money and actually getting to a place to have their ID made and picture taken.
If people are going to require ID, then the required form of ID absolutely *has* to be free of charge, otherwise it's the same as a poll tax.
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Dionys1 year, 7 months ago
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If you actually read the fine print or address the reality of those 'offers,' you will see that they have to jump through many, many hoops to even qualify for the free ID and that most of the time the things needed to apply for an ID (such as birth certificate/marriage certificate/et cetera) would not be covered, nor would they get assistance (if they were, say, handicapped or simply older without any help) to get to the places where they could get ID. In short it seems like it was made much more difficult, time and money consuming than it needed to be.
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nostalgia1 year, 7 months ago
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most of the time the things needed to apply for an ID (such as birth certificate/marriage certificate/et cetera) would not be covered
I hate to tell you but they are going to need those documents to apply for Social Security
"nor would they get assistance (if they were, say, handicapped or simply older without any help) to get to the places where they could get ID."
Same can be said for obtaining SS or actually going to the polls to vote
GA actually was going to the homes with a mobile unit to supply ID's
How do they cash checks without an ID? or buy tobacco, alcohol etc?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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Sheesh, Wolfie, where did you come from? Where did you go to school?
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not
be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
- Fifteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1870)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not
be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
- Nineteenth Amendment (1920)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any
primary or other election . . . shall not be denied or abridged . . . by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
- Twenty-fourth Amendment (1964)
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age.
- Twenty-sixth Amendment (1971)
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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Are they gonna hunt up the witnesses and baptismal certificates and whatever for people like my 93 yr old granny who has no birth certificate to let them get the $20 dollar birth certificate to apply for an id? Are they gonna hire someone to take her in her wheel-chair with her O2 bottle to get her picture made? The obstacles are not troublesome for fraud artists but they are for the elderly and infirm, especially the rural population.
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nostalgia1 year, 7 months ago
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Does your 93 yr old Grandmother collect Social Security?
When my mother applied for hers, she didn't have a birth certificate.
We had to get school and church records plus 2 relatives older than her that could swear when she was born
Only then would they issue a birth certificate which she needed for SS
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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I know, I did all that for her years ago to collect rr retirement. That's the reason I remembered (some of) what it took. I was just making the argument, she's gone now but she would have been 112 come the 28th of this month. Thanks for your kindness, the info will probably help someone else.
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MilesAway1 year, 7 months ago
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State Representative Stanley Cox, a Republican from Sedalia and the sponsor of the amendment, said: "The requirements we have right now are totally inadequate," Mr. Cox said. "You can present a utility bill, and that doesn't prove anything. I could sit here with my nice photocopier and create a thousand utility bills with different names on them."
What a stupid comment.
WHAT A STUPID COMMENT! If an old lady (from Missouri) has not proof of citizenship, but she speak as an AMERICAN or if some strange looking person try to vote and his English is as my Chinese, then, of cause, ASK FOR PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP!!!
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Hold on buckshot. So you're telling me that same woman that has a photo ID she presents with her Medicare card and Social Security card to receive benefits can't produce them when she's going to vote? Are you calling old people stupid or lazy? I think most seniors I know would want photo ID's so when they're too sick to vote or worse, when they die, no one can steal their identity.
As to your suggestion they can't legally use racial profiling at the airport how would you get that past the ACLU. For crying out loud I bought a case of beer from a local store and they carded everyone regardless of age. Seems they were sued by some action committee paid for by the ACLU. Card everyone that wants to vote and be done with it!
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Rayman1 year, 7 months ago
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I couldn't agree more. Proof of citizenship must be a requirement to all American voters. I am sure a birth certificate could be falsified by illegals to cast their votes. A passport could also be accepted in lieu of citizenship since it is a legal proof of one's nationality. I don't see how the most powerful and technologically advanced nation on earth cannot solve this idiotic 'Voter ID Issue'. Whatever happened to 'common sense'?
If one decides to vote, two questions ought to be asked:
1. do you have proof of US Citizenship?
2. do you have a US passport?
That should solve this ridiculous battle over voter ID!!!
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