Comments for Voter ID Battle Shifts to Proof of Citizenship »
Posted By TechnologyExpert 1 year, 8 months ago in NewsThe battle over voting rights will expand this week as lawmakers in Missouri are expected to support a proposed constitutional amendment to enable election officials to require proof of citizenship from anyone registering to vote.
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namecritic1 year, 8 months ago
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Teagen1 year, 8 months ago
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Huh? People living outside of the United States hold what's called a US Passport, that's an ID. If you're born outside of the USA, you have to make a choice on citizenship when you become either 18 or 21, I don't remember anymore. A passport would be issued anyway.
As to the claims of costs, in my home state, Wisconsin, there have been charges of voter fraud. The GOP, offered to pay the entire cost for the program but the other side would have nothing to do with it.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Teagen -- My children (now 25-30) were born outside the US (to foreign parents), brought here as infants, and naturalized when they were under 5. They were never asked to make the choice you describe at 18 or 21; don't remember whether Mrs. Chevydog and I were asked by proxy to renounce their native citizenship. None of them have a passport.
As far as they're concerned, they're Americans who were born in Country X. They have naturalization papers; the pictures (taken when they were under 5) look very little like they do now.
So far, they've lived normal lives with their background never causing a problem for them or anyone else. I'm not about to support anything that's going to cause problems for them now.
Can't really adress dead people voting. But I know that Mrs. Chevydog has never seen a death certiciate for her father, who died in NY in 1968. Though he's long dead, I don't think she could prove it.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Wolfie --
Maybe they will. But it burns me when people like me (and them) who have had a perfectly legitimate right to vote for their entire lives might be questioned about it. I don't mind stopping voting fraud, but the price of stopping people who are entitled to vote seems too high.
Mrs. Chevydog's father is happily resting in Arlington, and she's never voted for him. He had about three Social Security numbers (two gotten for him by the Army plus one he got when he became a self-employed minister). For some reason, Social Security never figured this out until more than 30 years after he died. Government bureaucracy is sometimes almost as bad as the private sector version.
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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Well, I'm glad that Mrs chevydog isn't voting for her diseased father. He must have been a veteran, my thanks to him for helping defend the country.
You and your children don't have a legitimate right to vote unless you can identify yourselves and prove you are citizens and residents of the state, county and precinct where you desire to vote. So get over being burned up it's not a big thing. lol
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svensun1 year, 8 months ago
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Chevydog, I have a question:
How do your children prove their US citizenship now? Certainly, there are times when one has to, for various reasons: certain types of aid programs, travel to and from foreign countries, etc.
On such occasions, I have to show a birth certificate. What do your kids do?
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Sven --Actually as far as jobs, school, and most of the other stuff I'm aware of, they've never had to.
Two of them went to Mexico on class trips. It surprised me to learn that, although I wouldn't need a passport, the documents they needed were basically the ones to get a passport. (This was all pre-9/11 era.) The same thing was true for Canada when we visited there. INS recommended passport, but there wasn't enough time to do it; so we went the document package route. This included--MO birth certificate (shows them born in Korea), copy of custody order, copy of adoption order, naturalization papers. Most of this stuff I would've as soon left locked in a drawer at home. You never realize how hard it is to save stuff until you try.
I guess I was bugged to find that their doc requirement was more than mine. Thought that naturalization endowed them with the same privleges I have. But I guess that's not completely true.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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It's too bad they have to face that hurdle. Perhaps having a passport would solve that document mess? I know that now passports are required for Mexico and Canada. I went to both when only a birth certificate was required myself, and confess that I don't have a passport.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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I know Teagen very well and I know the cases she's talked about throughout this topic. We have huge amounts of voter fraud in Milwaukee. The DNC really is the problem here. They have control over the Election Commission, DA's office, Sheriff's department, city hall and most of the State's checks & balances. We've had press from the local ABC affiliate video tape people from the New York DNC buy votes with smokes and no one was ever charged. The nursing home Teagen mentioned is where my grand mother lives and I've seen it. They have them sign off on the absentee ballots that are filled out for them. BTW-this is home that works with Alzheimer's patients mainly.
As to your comments, you make no sense. If they were born to non-US parents outside of the USA, how can they be naturalized citizens? Unless you signed the forms relinquishing their rights when you adopted them. If you didn't there's a very good chance they're illegal.
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svensun1 year, 8 months ago
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everyone who either naturalizes or is a citizen born outside the US has PROOF of their citizenship; if they've lost it, they can get a duplicate copy.
If I lose my birth certificate, I have to appy to the County Registrar to get a duplicate. It's not impossible, and isn't an extraordinary burden to exercising one's suffrage.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Sven-- Not completely true on your second point. PA, in which I was born, hasn't used county clerks for that function since the 1930's. There is a state agency for that. But point taken.
On your first point-- I can't speak for now; but when my children were naturalized in the 1980's we were told (in almost these words):"If you lose this certificate, it can't be replaced." Puts the fear of God in you. My mind may be a little hazy because that was a ways ago; but I don't think I was imagining it. Still, given the realities of modern life, it doesn't seem to make much sense.
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svensun1 year, 7 months ago
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I hope that what you were told about your childrens' naturalization certificates is NOT true. That would be quite ridiculous, to NOT be able to replace such an important document. I hope whoever told you that was mistaken. If not, it sounds like the Congress has some work to do with ICE.
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BuffaloJ1 year, 8 months ago
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"Voting is a right of citizens and proof of citizenship is not asking too much."
Yes it is! This is complete BS! I was born here, I have a Social Security card and a drivers license. I already have to register to vote. There is no reason they cannot tie the voting system in with the Social Scurity and drivers license system so not only would I not have to prove I am a citizen in order to vote but I would not have to go thru the register to vote cr*p.
I have more than enough proof in my wallet to prove I am who I say I am. I sure as heck should not have to jump thru more hoops to present more proof when the proof I can already provide is obviously more than adequate.
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Endoscopy1 year, 8 months ago
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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svensun1 year, 8 months ago
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Oh no, meso, 'cons' as you call us have NOT FORGOTTEN. If you listened to any 'con' talk radio, you would know that.
McCain is persona non grata when it comes to the amnesty issue. Every time he talks about it, I start a slow burn.
There is no hypocrisy going on around here, just a lot of holding one's nose and looking away while pulling the lever for McCain, you can be sure of that.
You don't think that because of McCain's outrageous position on amnesty that a conservative would vote for Hillary or Obama, do you?
Oh yeah, that's right, Ann Coulter was voting for Hillary.
Her latest column was: "One down, TWO to go!"
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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"There is no hypocrisy going on around here, just a lot of holding one's nose and looking away while pulling the lever for McCain, you can be sure of that."
--Just for the sake of clarification, aren't you basically saying that when cons argued back in '04 that the main reason they couldn't conceive of voting for Kerry was because he was a "flipflopper," they were pretty much lying through their teeth and merely voting for Bush for the sake of the party (regardless of the negative impact he was having on our country)? What's more, isn't that in essence what you and many cons are doing AGAIN today--by doing a total 180 on the evils of flipflopping, voting for McCain (when he's virtually assured us that he plans to continue down the same wrong-headed path as Bush has all these years)? And yet you still bristle when I label you people con artists?
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BuffaloJ1 year, 8 months ago
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Wolfie20071 year, 8 months ago
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Well, BuffaloJ, let's just try it and see if it helps. I really don't know if illegals will go to the trouble to get another id just to vote, do you? It really isn't just about illegals voting it's about dead people voting and people voting more than once and people voting in the wrong states and precincts. I think this might help stop all that.
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svensun1 year, 8 months ago
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Wait a minute tkyrchncs,
no one pays MY gas costs to drive to the polls and vote. My polling place is at the top of hill I hate driving up, much less walking to. I can't imagine climbing that hill in a wheelchair, yet I haven't heard of any transport for handicapped people to go vote.
My grandmother is 93, can hardly walk, and her polling place is blocks away. No gives her a ride to the polls, except me.
There are all sorts of 'obstacles' to voting already. This new one doesn't seem that harsh, in perspective, does it?
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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" I really don't know if illegals will go to the trouble to get another id just to vote, do you?"
--Worse, you "really don't know" that voter fraud is some widespread problem or that it's threatened the GOP in any way. The reason anyone with a brain knows that cons are fabricating and lying on this issue is because you claim to be concerned about the integrity of voting results but you're carefully cherry-picking only the aspects of the voting process you believe threaten the GOP. You're not credible on this issue at all because no one has forgotten 2000 when you people didn't give a rats arse about the integrity of the process when results were tilted in your favor. No one believes you.
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slate1 year, 8 months ago
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Interesting that the 'advocate' would come out against it because illegal's chances of voting may be hindered.
Sure we have Drivers Licenses and SSI cards, but now they are so easy to counterfeit for the right price.
I don't know what the answer is, but I for one want Real citizens of the United States of America voting in our elections, not others that are from other countries, dead people or people that vote multiple times.
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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To the extent that any exists, I'm all for eliminating voter fraud. While we're at it, we should eliminate voter intimidation (which is, in fact, really what we're talking about in this particular case) as well. I'd also like to see cons as eager to to condemn tactics such as "operation chaos" as they are to slam and attack any and everything moveon.org does.
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slate1 year, 8 months ago
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You Dems should have thought about that when your side crossed the line and voted Republican in an open Primary it's a goose and gander thing,, you can't complain now after your side did the same thing,,,,, besides,,,, in this nation anyone has the right to vote for those they wish to vote for, if they are citizens
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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But it's ok if the Daily Kos wants it?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/10/2713/87...
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slate1 year, 7 months ago
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http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15297
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Why should I have to have anything (I don't really, though I do have birth certificate, dl, passport, ss card, voter registration card)? I am supposed to carry all that and my utility bill to the polls because you guys in the state capital say so? I am known personally to the registrar, the captain of the polls, and every poll worker in my town. Why don't you guys lay off and let the people running the polls determine what they need where they work?
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Nixie1 year, 8 months ago
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"I am known personally to the registrar, the captain of the polls, and every poll worker in my town."
Whopdeedoo.
Not everyone enjoys the same level of celebrity that you do. Should they not get to vote because the poll workers don't recognize them on sight and cheer their name when they walk into the polling place?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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I live and vote in a very small place, I went to hs with all these people, or their parents. My point was let the people who have the problem handle the problem. Why create unnecessary burdens on everyone when only a few precincts are even potentially problematical?
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Buffalo -- Don't know your age. But when I got my Social Security card (about 1962) I was put against the wall and told "This is not an ID card; it is against Federal law to use it as an ID card." Yet all sorts of organizations seem to require it to be used as such.
Also, do you sign you name the same way every time? I've varied throughout my life. Sometimes I'm asked for a middle initial, sometimes for a full middle name. Sometimes I've used a Jr., sometimes not. There was even a phase when I used my middle name only to distinguish me from my Father. Any "name guardian" who wanted to make issue with this could; I've had it happen to me. IMHO, this opens the door to much more fraud than it would ever prevent.
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ADAGUY1 year, 8 months ago
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For the first time, I have to agree with Endoscopy. Anyone can obtain a social security no. Legal or not! A photo ID voter registration card is what is needed. It must be available to only those who can prove citizenship!
Then the only problem will be addressing the election fraud that is done by the election officials themselves, like we recently witnessed in Ohio!
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Dionys1 year, 8 months ago
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There are plenty of examples where a "Real ID" has been required and kept US Citizens from voting. The most recent example was a large group of Nuns who came to Notre Dame to vote. The people at the voting station even knew their fellow nuns and their history. Some had expired passports (which were not allowed), but as most were in their 80's and 90's, did not drive and did not travel overseas they didn't have a valid (enough) ID.
The cost of a passport hovers around $80, which is quite a bit of money for those living on a fixed budget, not to mention for people who may be starving. A state ID may be cheaper, but for many (including those nuns) it represents a real obstacle in terms of both money and actually getting to a place to have their ID made and picture taken.
If people are going to require ID, then the required form of ID absolutely *has* to be free of charge, otherwise it's the same as a poll tax.
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Dionys1 year, 8 months ago
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If you actually read the fine print or address the reality of those 'offers,' you will see that they have to jump through many, many hoops to even qualify for the free ID and that most of the time the things needed to apply for an ID (such as birth certificate/marriage certificate/et cetera) would not be covered, nor would they get assistance (if they were, say, handicapped or simply older without any help) to get to the places where they could get ID. In short it seems like it was made much more difficult, time and money consuming than it needed to be.
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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most of the time the things needed to apply for an ID (such as birth certificate/marriage certificate/et cetera) would not be covered
I hate to tell you but they are going to need those documents to apply for Social Security
"nor would they get assistance (if they were, say, handicapped or simply older without any help) to get to the places where they could get ID."
Same can be said for obtaining SS or actually going to the polls to vote
GA actually was going to the homes with a mobile unit to supply ID's
How do they cash checks without an ID? or buy tobacco, alcohol etc?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 7 months ago
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Sheesh, Wolfie, where did you come from? Where did you go to school?
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not
be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
- Fifteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1870)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not
be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
- Nineteenth Amendment (1920)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any
primary or other election . . . shall not be denied or abridged . . . by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
- Twenty-fourth Amendment (1964)
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age.
- Twenty-sixth Amendment (1971)
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Are they gonna hunt up the witnesses and baptismal certificates and whatever for people like my 93 yr old granny who has no birth certificate to let them get the $20 dollar birth certificate to apply for an id? Are they gonna hire someone to take her in her wheel-chair with her O2 bottle to get her picture made? The obstacles are not troublesome for fraud artists but they are for the elderly and infirm, especially the rural population.
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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Does your 93 yr old Grandmother collect Social Security?
When my mother applied for hers, she didn't have a birth certificate.
We had to get school and church records plus 2 relatives older than her that could swear when she was born
Only then would they issue a birth certificate which she needed for SS
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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I know, I did all that for her years ago to collect rr retirement. That's the reason I remembered (some of) what it took. I was just making the argument, she's gone now but she would have been 112 come the 28th of this month. Thanks for your kindness, the info will probably help someone else.
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MilesAway1 year, 8 months ago
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State Representative Stanley Cox, a Republican from Sedalia and the sponsor of the amendment, said: "The requirements we have right now are totally inadequate," Mr. Cox said. "You can present a utility bill, and that doesn't prove anything. I could sit here with my nice photocopier and create a thousand utility bills with different names on them."
What a stupid comment.
WHAT A STUPID COMMENT! If an old lady (from Missouri) has not proof of citizenship, but she speak as an AMERICAN or if some strange looking person try to vote and his English is as my Chinese, then, of cause, ASK FOR PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP!!!
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Hold on buckshot. So you're telling me that same woman that has a photo ID she presents with her Medicare card and Social Security card to receive benefits can't produce them when she's going to vote? Are you calling old people stupid or lazy? I think most seniors I know would want photo ID's so when they're too sick to vote or worse, when they die, no one can steal their identity.
As to your suggestion they can't legally use racial profiling at the airport how would you get that past the ACLU. For crying out loud I bought a case of beer from a local store and they carded everyone regardless of age. Seems they were sued by some action committee paid for by the ACLU. Card everyone that wants to vote and be done with it!
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Rayman1 year, 7 months ago
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I couldn't agree more. Proof of citizenship must be a requirement to all American voters. I am sure a birth certificate could be falsified by illegals to cast their votes. A passport could also be accepted in lieu of citizenship since it is a legal proof of one's nationality. I don't see how the most powerful and technologically advanced nation on earth cannot solve this idiotic 'Voter ID Issue'. Whatever happened to 'common sense'?
If one decides to vote, two questions ought to be asked:
1. do you have proof of US Citizenship?
2. do you have a US passport?
That should solve this ridiculous battle over voter ID!!!
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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Teagen1 year, 8 months ago
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In Wisconsin, it would change leadership in many cases. There have been over 5000 charges of voter fraud. Addresses that don't exist, people dead still voting and the like. They've actually video taped someone buying votes with smokes. There have been cases of chartered buses from Chicago dropping off people in Milwaukee to vote. They even had "their" name written on pieces of paper so they could remember their name. Only in liberal Milwaukee and Madison.
PC has nothing to do with it here, it's how elections are stolen. The real voter fraud showed up in the 2000 election. There were enough questionable ballots that Gore's victory might have been overturned had they pushed the issue.
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mesodude1 year, 8 months ago
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That's the question many of us were wondering last year when we learned the Bush administration Justice Department was firing Attorneys who didn't pursue alleged voter fraud aggressively enough. The thing is, by now we all know that the real reason they were fired is because they refused to perform at their jobs in ways which would discourage minorities (who will never in a zillion years vote for Republican as long as the GOP keeps up their sleazy horsesh*t gestapo tactics) from showing up at the polls. And speaking of fair and square, please remind us how Monica Goodling got her job. Thanks
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Meso, you're wrong. Again. My first cousin was one on the short list to be removed. He's still here but it wasn't because of your claims. Justice Attorney's are appointed to at an at will position. If the president wanted to fire every other one, he can. That's the nature of the business. Clinton fired everyone. Carter fired everyone. I think Reagan and Bush 41 fired everyone. Get off your DNC soap box and visit Milwaukee or since we're seeing more gun crimes too read the report for yourself:
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/MPD_...
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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LOL "people dead still voting" Went back and reread the statement. I thought you were talking about Chicago! Then continued reading and sure enough - "chartered buses from Chicago dropping off people in Milwaukee to vote". You just had to know that Chicago figured into this somehow!
I'm not certain how anyone can claim that voter fraud is NOT occurring.
When any party is dependent upon fraud to win elections, it speaks volumes about that party and their leadership
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Teagen1 year, 7 months ago
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That's nothing. Google Milwaukee's Pension Scandal. That's another DNC dirty trick. They recalled the County supervisor and several members of the board. When it was all over, it's costing the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. Milwaukee always plays the nice guy to the north of Chicago or worse, the honest guys. It's not. That sucking sound is heavy industry and business leaving.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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As a senior member of my firm, we're moving out of Wisconsin because of the corruption, high taxes and terrible state and city governments. Milwaukee County seems to have a good leader but again, he's surrounded by a bunch of drive business out of the state and go socialist.
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BuffaloJ1 year, 8 months ago
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hard to believe it would not be controversial?
I should not have to jump thru more hoops to prove I am a citizen when I already have a drivers license and social security card.
If this goes thru, the end result is that many more American citizens will be denied the right to vote. I have never heard of some big problem with "illegals" tricking the system so they can vote so why should I have to go thru more work just to be able to vote in my own country??? And if I don't jump thru the new hoops that are meant to fix a problem that does nto exist I would not get to vote. This is complete BS.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Happens here in Wisconsin. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=324933
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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"I should not have to jump thru more hoops to prove I am a citizen when I already have a drivers license and social security card."
And that is precisely the problem now isn't it???
How do you know that the driver's license is not a fake or obtained with a stolen ID?
Feds uncover fake license scheme for illegal immigrants
Hundreds of individuals who were in this country illegally have taken advantage of a window of opportunity that allowed them to obtain official Texas licenses.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/late...
Not even your SS is really proof anymore. Aren't you reading about stolen SS numbers??
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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Numerous Illegal Immigrants Are Arrested
Police say the problem involved illegal immigrants taking someone else's private information just to get a job at Somerset Hardwood.
"They're taking these numbers and making their own cards. Their picture on them. They're making up social security numbers or getting them from someone" said Sgt. Brian Jackson with Kentucky Vehicle Enforcement.
http://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/18704719.html
In some states all you need is an "official ID" to vote:
Illegal Alien Caused Fatal Bus Accident
The woman who was driving the van, Alianiss Morales, is an illegal alien
The Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that Morales has a "Minnesota identification card" but does not have a driver's license
Possession of a Minnesota identification card by Morales means that she can vote.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/02/...
WAKE UP!
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BuffaloJ1 year, 8 months ago
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I seriously doubt that "illegals" have a massive campaign to illegaly vote in our elections.
If you want to look at problems in our election system, then look at the electronic voting machines. Not only is there serious concern about them actually recording the results the user entered(due to touch screen precision issues) but there are serious security concerns surrounding the machines themselves. Many of them use a MS Access database and that can easily be brought up and modified.
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Lurch1 year, 8 months ago
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Didn`t CA ban those machines because they were proven to be so easily hacked?
Or was that another state?
Which reminds me, if any Republican was serious about voter fraud then they would get on the bus and make no-paper-trail voting illegal and a thing of the past.
Who cares who is pushing the button if you have no way of proving that the result is accurate in the first place?
Also, mail-in ballots are the real source of voter fraud. People steal them, sell them, buy them etc. Hell of a lot easier to do that than fake an ID and risk getting caught at the polls.
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Teagen1 year, 7 months ago
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Actually, they have for many years in Chicago, if you believe them. It was only in Florida where the DNC designed the ballot, they controlled the state house at the time, that confused a bunch of old people. At least that's the line Gore fed us. I think it was a case of a very close election that one side refused to admit he lost. If you're going to bring up 2000. In Wisconsin there were an estimated 8,000 votes cast by dead people in DNC controlled minority neighborhoods. Not to claim fraud but the alderman, Micheal Jackson McGee is in federal custody waiting for a long trial. It starts with voter fraud, threats, intimidation and a whole lot more. Corruption and the Wisconsin DNC are one and the same.
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BuffaloJ1 year, 8 months ago
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Are you serious?
Yes, I want all votes to be fraudulant. All legal voters should not vote and the "illegals" should vote for us instead. lol.
I think we shouldn't add a new federal ID system under the guise of voter fraud. I think we should use paper ballots instead of using electronic voting machines that have been shown to be faulty and easily tampered with.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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"I've to jump thru more hoops to prove I am a citizen when I already have a drivers license and social security card."
Well then don't live in Wisconsin because neither is an ID accepted by Homeland Security. First, the SS card states on the front or back that it cannot and should not be used as an ID alone, you need another form of ID.
As to the driver's license, our DNC Governor "Diamond Jim" Doyle, raided the coffers again to bring our drivers licenses up to the Fed's standards. So it's not a legal ID for anything other than driving. He even had them remove the question regarding citizenship that was standard for years. He also forbid law enforcement to hold suspected illegal aliens for ICE if they're arrested. Doyle is your typical communist now in the DNC. Anything for the win even if it includes lying, cheating and fraud.
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Teagen1 year, 7 months ago
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Funny, when I visited Wisconsin I have to show an ID to buy antihistamines. Used my credit card to pay for them, had to show it again. Went to the airport to fly out in full uniform and had to show it again. Yet to vote in Wisconsin, they're willing to let you do anything? Yea right. Just another sign of corruption of the DNC. At least in Wisconsin.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 8 months ago
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Nostalgia: It is difficult for me to imagine showing an id in a bank where I have done business for 45 yrs. It is difficult to imagine that anyone would question my citizenship.
What you want is another example of bureaucracy run amok.
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nostalgia1 year, 8 months ago
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I've done all of my banking online for years
If I walked into that bank and wanted to withdraw money and they DIDN'T ask for ID, I'd take my business elsewhere
I sent my 28 year old daughter to the store to buy cold medication - an OTC med - she had to show ID
I've also watched as cashiers have asked for ID from someone buying spray paint
Expect to show a lot of ID when you go to apply for SS
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Lurch, get a life. There's fraud all over the place. If there isn't why would your side be so much against a voter ID? Afraid you can't win elections, even after the "fine" job President Bush has done? Or is it your side has gone so far left, it can't win over "normal" voters?
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Nixie1 year, 8 months ago
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You HAVE to be a US citizen to vote, I don't know why anyone would have a problem proving it. Where I vote, you already have to show your ID when you go in, they check against the list of registered voters and cross your name off the list. Easy as pie.
1. You must be 18 to vote.
2. You must have a driver's license or state ID once you are 18.
3. You have to be a US citizen to get a driver's license or state ID.
So everyone who wants to vote should already have an ID. I don't know why there is any discussion. If you have nothing to hide, then don't worry about it. The people objecting are historically notorious for soliciting illegal votes, including the dead. What a shock that they oppose anyone having to prove they are entitled to a vote. Some of their constituents would first have to prove they had a pulse!
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Nixie -- Don't think that one generally has to be a US citizen to get a drivers license; only a resident of the state that one is requesting the license from.
It strikes me that this is wide open to abuse. The little reminder card they send me about elections uses a different form of my name than I normally use--different than the one on my Social Security card as well as on other ID. Two years ago I was hassled by some guy at the polls because of this; he finally let me vote, but I'm not sure what recourse I would have had if he hadn't. I am US-born and have been voting for 40 years.
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Nixie1 year, 8 months ago
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I had to show my birth certificate and social security card when I got first my state ID and then my license. I had to have the ID before I was 18 for my job, to put me on the grid. I don't know how people get away with not having those things, I get asked for those documents all the time.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Nixie --At age 60, I've never been asked to show my birth certificate for anything, except perhaps to get my children to the US; certainly not to enroll in Social Security, which I did at about 14.
Chevy Dog
Chevy Q. Dog
Chevy Quality Dog
and any of these with a Jr.
All of these are ways I've identified myself at various points in my life. Plus others. Could I prove that these are the same person? Possibly, depending on what one acepts as proof. But it rubs me the wrong way when someone makes it difficult for me to vote because the way one organization (the County Clerk's office) chooses to write my name is different than the way I chose some years ago.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Nixie -- We took our kids down to the Soc Secur office when the whole thing started with children having to get their own number. Lots and lots of documentation. It was also one of only 2-3 places that my daughter's legal name and her Korean birth name crossed. About 8 years later, when she was a college student, she applied for a phone card. She was denied because a credit rating company said "someone else was using her Social Security number." After we looked into it, it turns out that the "someone else" had her Korean birth name! I don't know how that rating company got the name; but it had to be illegal under Federal law, MO state law, or both. Must admit that more than a little of my feeling on ID's is influenced by that. We have companies out there that love this info and that can't be trusted any further than one can throw their CEO's.
My age 14 enrollment was when I started to work.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Give me a break, that's a lazy credit department. I had the same issue. My father and I have the same name except I'm the third, he was junior. I went around and around with Discover that I'm not my father and that I have perfect credit. BTW-so did he, but he was killed in the line of duty. Well some moron in India didn't check the SS number, only the name and say that his Sears account was closed because he died. So they just about had me arrested. It ended shortly after my attorney threated to sue them.
As to other problems, try the election commission. Dad died in 1986, KIA. Low and behold he's been called for jury duty several times and bench warrants had been issued. Only in Wisconsin can the dead vote and be called for jury duty.
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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May have been possible in a domestic adoption, but highly unlikely in an international one. Korean birth names do not just pop out of thin air. My daughter never used hers. It was used for her in custody proceedings, adoption proceedings (both sealed), and in obtaining a Korean visa. Her legal name--the one we gave her--was used in only two of these. This company tied together her legal name and her Korean birth name--a mere 2 million or so to 1 shot.
I've thought about this some since. The best idea I can come up with is that the company obtained info from all sorts of places, not really caring whether it was legally or illegally obtained, and hers just fell in with that. There was no rational reason for them to be specifically looking for info on her.
Realize that it helps to be familiar with international adoption to follow this. For about 10 years, in varying capacities, I was.
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Wolfie20071 year, 8 months ago
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chevydog
I assume then you never went to school, got a drivers license or a pass port because I'm a number of years older than you and I've had to show my birth certificate for all these things. So how did you get by without doing so? Btw, you will have to show your birth certificate or other id when you begin to draw social security payments.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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Wolfie -- In starting school, as least as my parents told me, it wasn't an issue as long as my birthday wasn't close to the cutoff. Never needed a birth certificate for my (PA) drivers license; when I moved to MO they just rolled the info over. Never have left the US (except to Canada), so no passport has ever been needed. As you probably have noticed, the mania about record-keeping is relatively recent. Most of the time previous, people's word was good enough
One of my sons has an estimated birth date. I imagine that if that ever became a problem he could weasel it a few weeks one way or the other. But it never has, and it probably won't.
I sometimes josh Mrs. Chevydog about not having been born in the US (she was born in Washington, DC).
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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"As you probably have noticed, the mania about record-keeping is relatively recent. Most of the time previous, people's word was good enough."
No, chevydog, I haven't noticed, like I stated before I am a number of years older than you and I have been asked for identification all my life. My parents had to have my birth certificate to enroll me in kindergarten. Anyway, chevydog, you, your wife and children will have to get some kind of paper to identify yourselves, especially, if you want to vote.
For you and your family it's a new day a coming.
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chevydog1 year, 7 months ago
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Wolfie-- It's not a matter of not having them. Everything's been done all legal-like. It's a matter of not needing them. If people don't want 'em, they don't want 'em. And that's been the case. I'm certinly not going to push anything on people-- take my ID, please. For my money, the less info that's out there about me the better. As I mentioned in one post, I'm 99% sure that some credit rating company obtained info on my daughter that was in sealed Federal or MO state court documents. If that's not safe, nothing is. One gets forced to operate on the premise that every bit of electronic information out there will sooner or later be compromised.
There's not much of my life that I'm ashamed of; some I'm pretty proud of. I like to follow laws; and if the ID requirement becomes one, undoubtably I'll follow it. But everything has a price. It's easy for well-meaning people to make someone else pay a price in privacy so that they can feel good.
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Teagen1 year, 8 months ago
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That isn't the case in every state, I wish it were. When I lived in Wisconsin, there was a huge amount of voter fraud that should have been prosecuted. It wasn't because it was DNC based dirty tricks and the DA was a Dem. Not to claim all Dems are corrupt but in Wisconsin, we see votes of the homeless purchased for $5.00 or a pack of smokes. We've seen Bingo played in nursing homes where if the resident marked the DNC candidate on the absentee ballot, they won a prize. One of the few cases that actually went to court was where 30 vehicles leased to the GOP had their tires slashed by the son of Gwen Moore, Congress woman for Wisconsin's 4th district. If it wasn't for the Feds, it would have never gone to court.
On the topic of voter ID, there have been hundreds of claims and charges that disappeared. Again it's the DA, even when the Milwaukee PD published their report showing several hundred cases of voter fraud. An ID with a thumb print would solve this.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Nixie, you're from a GOP controlled state probably. In Wisconsin, the driver's license isn't valid as far as Homeland is concerned. As to proving citizenship, Diamond Jim, our governor prevented the question from being asked. There are an estimated 50,000 illegal aliens with Wisconsin drivers licenses. Some of which might actually be able to legally drive, but I wouldn't count on it. It was a huge boost to his election campaign both in illegals voting for him and donating to his campaign. My sister worked the polling place and got into trouble for posting two signs. One warned people on parole not to vote, it's illegal here. The other advised it was illegal for illegal aliens to vote. The DNC lawyers filed a formal complaint and had to remove them both.
The DNC is not the party it once was. Then again with McCain, neither is the GOP.
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automan9091 year, 8 months ago
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The only ones objecting to ID to vote are the Democrats.
They always try to do underhanded things at the poles. and no ID let's the door open for more of it.
Like not letting our Military's votes count, and not letting the folks in Michigan and Florida's votes count, multiple recounts, and their stupid Delegate/Super delegate system.
No ID let's the door open for more of it.
And they wonder why they can't win an election?
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Dionys1 year, 8 months ago
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They have more than valid concerns over ID requirements being the equivalent of a poll tax. If ID is to be required, then it absolutely has to be given free of charge to anyone who wants to vote. Otherwise you put up an obstacle to American citizens who want to vote. The required documentation to prove you are a citizen (such as birth certificates, et cetera) also must be provided free of charge. Anything else is patently unfair and an obvious ploy to exclude those who tend to vote democratic.
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Charlson1 year, 8 months ago
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What you've said sounds very reasonable to me. If the government requires proof of citizenship, then there should be no costs to acquiring the proof. All citizens should be required to provide proof of citizenship to vote. Only citizens of this country should be allowed to vote in order to pick our government's officials. If you are not a citizen you do not have the right to effect our elections and vote, period. If you want that right, become a citizen.
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joeblowe1 year, 8 months ago
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While I am strongly against having to "show your papers" for any ordinary daily activity, I think that - at this point in time, and considering the HUGE population of illegal invaders - it might well be prudent to ask for some proof of citizenship prior to allowing someone to vote. I'm concerned that if we DON'T, the illegal invaders will simply take over the country from the inside, using our own lax attitude against us. It's a tough call.
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Howtogo1 year, 8 months ago
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Voter fraud is a real issue. For those that don't think it is, they have their heads in the sand or they have ulterior motives for allowing an illegal vote to be accepted. The cost is not an issue to get a legal ID. Georgia will pay for it if the person(s) can show they can't afford it. That could easily be instated everywhere. If born outside the US and become a citizen you have the naturalization papers, if parents are citizens & you are born outside the US you are automatically a citizen unless you don't want to give-up the other countries citizenship.
No, the real issue is the mass of "illegal immigrants" that have invaded the US and want to vote here. The political parties in this country don't have the will to do what is right and resolve this issue. The proof of being legally in this country and being a citizen of this country before you can vote is not too much to ask of the politicians and judges.
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Dionys1 year, 8 months ago
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Garbage. It's not a real issue. Unless you count "counting" fraud which has happened in the past two elections in great numbers, certainly. This "great concern" over a "real issue" is mostly mythic. You're much more likely to encounter fraud at the counting level (whether democratic or republican) than at the actual voting level.
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BB641 year, 7 months ago
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Walden, that depends upon the city they live in. In Milwaukee or Madison, the powers that be has taken a stand in support of every illegal alien, even those convicted of murdering police officers. Doyle and the DNC apparently needs the cheap labor and votes more than we need a controlled boarder.
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Howtogo1 year, 8 months ago
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I respecfully disagree with you Dionys & with walden3.When I first registered to vote I had to show proof of who I was and how old I was (a driver's license). Now all I have to do is mail in a post card and presto I receive a ballot. If I choose the absentee ballot route I can vote as many times as I wish to send in post cards. In 1984 I received a ballot for myself, my cat Barbara, my dog George, and my son that moved away to college. I never used the other three absentee ballots, but amazingly for the next two elections I received three extra ballots. They eventually fell off the election schedule, but this I found very scary. It's good for illegals to get the right people in office both local & federal. La Rasa and other special interest groups encourage the illegals to vote. We even have a guy in the state of Baja North (aka California) that will sell his "super delegate vote" for $20,000,000 to get more Hispanic (illegal) voters registered.
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Teagen1 year, 7 months ago
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Oh Walden your foil hat must be tight tonight. All we're asking for is a photo ID to vote. I'd rather see them use a thumb print and not have the little old ladies try to find my name on the huge voter list. Put your finger on the scanner, approves me and a clerk hands me a ballot. I'm military, all of my prints are on file as are millions of people.
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markmawn21 year, 8 months ago
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Why is this a "battle"? In counties where signatures are verified against a computer database, bad ballots are caught and investigated. If they fail to meet the requirements, they are filed for future reference or shredded. Based on experience of a family member who work in the election system, this if very effective in finding the bogus ballots. What many voters don't realize is that it is a Federal offense to write your dog's name on a ballot, or to sign for another member of you family, which occurs quite often.
I think warning letters are a better solution than disenfranchisement, as now much voting is heading towards mail-ins ballots anyway.
For something this important, a unified system is required.
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TheSatyr1 year, 8 months ago
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To say illegals voting is not a problem have their heads in the sand. Back in the 80s a group of Hispanic politicians in So.Cal. held a meeting where one of the items on the agenda was on finding ways and means of getting illegals in to vote. The goal was to slowly work on the Reconquista of South West America. Hispanic members from all those states took part. One of their ways of getting illegals into the voting booths...Drivers licenses for illegals. The meeting was done openly,the press were even invited and everybody just laughed it off. Even the (small) LA times article on this meeting viewed it more as a joke than anything else...No one wanted to take it seriously.
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chevydog1 year, 8 months ago
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My problem is less with preventing illegals voting (a miniscule problem here in MO) than with making sure that those who are entitled to vote can. I have a state-issued ID (valid picture driver's license), was born and raised in the US, have lived and voted here for 40 years. Yet two years ago, I was nearly kept from voting by some guy bent out of shape by the fact that my reminder card said Chevy Dog while my driver's license said Chevy Quality Dog (we are both the same person). It was sobering to think that he could have prevented me from voting for no other reason than his being in a bad mood. IMHO, this offers far more potential for fraud than anything it is intended to correct.
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Wolfie20071 year, 7 months ago
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chevydog
With or without illegals, voting fraud is alive and well in Missouri. Has the 2006 election ever been certified in Jackson County, Missouri, ie, Kansas City, Missouri? Also, what about all the fraud problems in St Louis County and St Louis City that have went on and been identified for the past 30 years? Guess you don't pay much attention to the goings on in your state then, do you? Btw, you need to get out more, there many illegals in Missouri. If you love your state and your country you, your wife and children will obtain picture ID's to vote and make sure the elections in Missouri are legal and above board. Maybe for the first time in it's history.
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