Comments for I'm Proud Of My Country »
Posted By Nixie 1 year, 5 months ago in NewsThe Tennessee Republican Party welcomes Michelle Obama to Nashville. What makes you proud to be an American?
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Nixie1 year, 5 months ago
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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Personally, I'm most proud of (but fearful of) the Liburals in this country unifyin to Tear Down Neo-Conservatism.
Although Ima Christian Conservative ... I have never felt comfortable with the philosophy of this ideeologie ... what with its over-reliance on Military Expansionism.
The Neo-Cons saw a vacuum created by the fall of the Soviet Union and sought to fill that vacuum ... NOT with honor, dignity, democracy, fairness and justice ... but rather with Arrogance and Belligerancy.
Which is quite odd ... since it is those VERY Characteristics that Americans were conditioned to HATE about them Soviets.
So ... for the FIRST TIEM IN MY LIFE ... these post WW2 Crazies appear to be on the run.
And while they MAY try to continue to use Fear and Smear in their campaigns ... I sincerely believe ... possibly for the FIRST TIME IN MY LIFETIME ... that Rank and File Honest Americans will REJECT their hatred.
For the FIRST TIME!
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Daylight1 year, 5 months ago
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Goppy
The Neo-Cons saw a vacuum created by the fall of the Soviet Union and sought to fill that vacuum ... NOT with honor, dignity, democracy, fairness and justice ... but rather with Arrogance and Belligerancy.
Well said, America wanted to achieve everything like the street thugs. We are the super power and we will do anything we want, stop if you can, policy no longer works nowadays.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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It's laughable that neocons would resort to citing truncated quotes of Michelle Obama's remarks out of context. Her full remarks were:
"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."
Michelle Obama was NOT saying that up to this point she had never been proud to be an American. What she was saying was that up to this point, she had never seen so many disenfranchised and marginalized voters actively participate in politics -- and this record turnout has made her proud.
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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Sorry ybdoggy.
We Conservatives dont 'roll' that way.
Right Wing Media has already implanted into our brains, the finely crafted hate message they wrought.
Askin us to consider 'context' is liek talkin bout a Pink Elephant ... then askin us to NOT think bout a Pink Elephant.
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Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
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ybdogsct
In context the problem phrase that stick out like a sore thumb is "for the first time in my adult lifetime". Nothing can take that away. What she should have said in place of that is "these things make me prouder". Instead the campaign is stuck with her words.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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ENDOSCOPY:
"In context the problem phrase that stick out like a sore thumb is 'for the first time in my adult lifetime'"
You misconstrue again by predictably citing Michelle's TRUNCATED quote out of context.
Michelle Obama said the words "for the first time in my adult lifetime" because she has never witnessed such high voter turnout in America. Remember that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are SETTING RECORDS for new voter registration, voter turnout rate, and fundraising. Barack Obama, in particular, is setting a record for low-level, grassroots fundraising, which demonstrates just how many people are actively participating in politics for the first time. This is something most of us, Michelle Obama and myself included, have never seen in our adult lifetimes. This is a first for America and Michelle Obama ought to be rightfully proud of the new involvement of previously disenfranchised voters in our democratic elections.
Try reading it again.
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Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
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And that fact makes it OK to say that "for the first time in my adult lifetime" I'm proud to be an American. People voted for her husband and that is what she says. No way no how can you turn this sows ear into a silk purse. You obviously didn't really read my post. It was an extremely poor choice of words. In or out of context. Stupid to make that statement.
With your statement about the context she should have said she is proud of Americans or something like that. This statement was a sound bite waiting to happen. No amount of context will change it into something else.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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ENDOSCOPY:
"You obviously didn't really read my post. It was an extremely poor choice of words. In or out of context."
You obviously didn't read Michelle Obama's full comment because if you had, you would realize that she was making an ACCURATE observation that is SUPPORTED by the available data. And that observation is that she has never in her adult lifetime seen such a high new voter registration rate, high voter turnout, and high campaign donation rate.
This new participation by the previously apathetic and disenfranchised IS something to be proud of. But the historically low voter turnout in DEMOCRATIC elections for the U.S., which proclaims itself to be the world's defender of DEMOCRACY, is nothing to be proud of. Again, Michelle Obama's observation is supported by the AVAILABLE DATA. The same can't be said for ANY of your unsubstantiated arguments.
http://www.idea.int/vt/survey/voter_turnout_pop...
Typical.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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It's no secret that the U.S., which proclaims itself to be the world's defender of democracy, embarrassingly boasts one of the LOWEST voter turnout rates of all free democracies around the world. Apparently, we defend democracy, but we just don't do a good job of practicing it ourselves. In fact, the International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance has ranked the U.S. voter turnout 139th of the only 172 democracies in the world. (Italy is 1st with a voter turnout rate of 92.5%; we are 139th with a rate of 48.3%).
http://www.idea.int/vt/survey/voter_turnout_pop...
That is NOT a stat to be proud of. But the record voter turnouts Clinton and Obama are eliciting is. For the first time, we are seeing the kind of voter participation that we should come to expect from responsible citizens. And for the first time in her lifetime, Michelle Obama is proud to see how many people are actively participating in democracy.
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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Geesh! You libbies!!!
Your view of Patriotism is a liek a Water Well dug too deep ... too deep means too costly ... and too much trouble.
Our Christian Conservative view of Patriotism is a Water Well that is shallow ... which makes it cheap & simple.
Course, we get left with a not very fine mixture ... and theres lots of detritus in the water.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008...
"Of course Michelle is proud of her country, which is why she and Barack talk constantly about how their story wouldn't be possible in any other nation on Earth. What she meant is that she's really proud at this moment because for the first time in a long time, thousands of Americans who've never participated in politics before are coming out in record numbers to build a grassroots movement for change."
So Michelle Obama is congratulating previously apathetic voters for participating in our democracy and in response, the neocons attack her.
Do they disagree with her? Do these neocons believe that citizens shouldn't vote? Their response reveals a profound distinction between Republicans and Democrats: Republicans believe patriotism can only be expressed through blind fealty to America, while Democrats believe patriotism is best expressed by identifying and improving America's flaws.
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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You make very, VERY good points ybdoggy.
And your logic carries with it a inspirational deep, abidin understandin of Barack and Michelle Obama's inspirational pride in Changin the pair-a-dime of this nation.
But we Christian Conservatives are so INVESTED in GW and Neo-Conservativism ... we caint hardly 'just say no' now! We believe there are still depths of depravity to be plumbed with Republican John McCain.
After all ... he said hes gointa continue Goerge W. Bushs policies! And we dont much liek change.
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ybdogsct1 year, 5 months ago
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ENDOSCOPY:
"A person who lives in India and is a Muslim"
If Barack Obama is a "Muslim" as you claim, then he could not also be a member of Jeremiah Wright's Trinity Christian Church. Well, which is it? Is Obama a Muslim or is a Christian, half-white racist against whites?
If you're going to smear Obama, you should first get your lies straight. LOL.
Pathetic.
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Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
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LOL
Daylight is the person I was talking about. Read what I said. Obama doesn't live in India last I heard. Or do I have to explain geography to you. It's by China and Pakistan.
Obama was raised a Muslim for the first few years and his Father was a Muslim and still is. In the eyes of Islam that makes him an Muslim apostate. It is open season on apostates in Muslim countries. Either the people kill them or the government will.
If he is elected President and goes to Iran to talk the president there the army and police are not allowed to protect him. Whoever wants to attack him will be allowed through. That is Sharia law.
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Blackacereturn1 year, 5 months ago
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Watch it Goppy, saying the first time and America could get you into trouble with these people, just ask Michelle. I am proud of the people in my country that has for the first time put their fear of a black man away and see him for what he is.
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Blackacereturn1 year, 5 months ago
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I find it amusing that they are people here who would neg me if even I said god bless America. And some how they think they should run the world. You can't be this shot sighted and lead anything...you will not lead for long as you can see now your party is crashing to the ground all around you. So keep up your arrogance it's better for us, and the country!
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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BTW, Nixie ... I liek how you package patriotism and use it as fodder for a cheap shot at a candidate's wife. ... CLASSY TO THE NINES... !
But hey! This is a recurrin Tacktic of us Right Wing Craaazies!!
But this is a classic! I liek how you trade on, manipulate PATRIOTISM to RAM home some innuendo bout a candidate you DONT liek as bein ... somehow ... UN-Patriotic.
Oh well ... this is quite common amongst us Craaazie Cons. Well - just look at what Karl ROVE did in 2000! He traded on GWs RELIGION! Just liek it was a sack of potatoes!
You know what Nixie?
You know what woulda made that video much betta for us Craazie Cons? You shoulda had a big picture of Charley Heston lookin down menacingly ... holdin a long rifle!
Now THATS our Craaazie Con vision of 'Merica.
YIPPEEE!!
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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LOL!
Anyway, I'm proud to be an American but due to this current administration's intrusive invasions of it's citizen's rights in terms of invading their right to privacy all in the veiled excuse of "national security" as an example sorta, kinda, takes away some of that enthusiasm away.
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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A personal note to the NSA, FBI, CIA, et al. Please feel free to open up "shmuckraut's"snail mail, intercept his E-mail, wiretap his phone lines, set up a van across his street with the latest state of the art surveillance equipment, and place hidden bugs all over his house as this Neanderthal doesn't seem to mind having his privacy or civil rights violated.
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injest1 year, 5 months ago
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Why worry about wire taps?
That takes a lot of work to set up.
Much easier just to activate your cell phone remotely and use it as the bug/microphone.
If you have a cell phone made in the last say 4 years it has enhanced 911, just like "OnStar" were always on.
Say thank you Chuckie Shurmmer!
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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skeek1 year, 5 months ago
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It's not you that's important, but the words you choose. Scanning is done digitally.
"Echelon is widely believed to be a satellite-based espionage network capable of monitoring worldwide communications. It is reportedly managed by the United States and shared with other English-speaking countries. An electronic intercept program, Echelon is said to scan all Internet traffic, cell phone conversations, faxes, and long-distance telephone calls. Through a filtering process, it searches electronic communication for key words that indicate evidence of terrorist activity, military threats, and international crime.
While U.S. authorities have never officially admitted to its existence, a European Parliament investigative committee has concluded that Echelon is real. It is reportedly aimed primarily at communications occurring between people in the United States and other countries."
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,61844-page,1/...
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ArgoNunya1 year, 5 months ago
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Right to privacy? Can you point this out in the Constitution? Anyone that ever thought a telephone was private is ignorant. Never talk about things on the phone you wouldn't want to be heard. That's nothing new. I've lived that way my whole life.
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riverdalianComment removed: Retracted by user
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riverdalianComment removed: Retracted by user
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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Well you initiated the your comment by denigrating my importance it seems. It sounded like you were very condescending when I haven't done anything untowards you at all. As i recall you've done this before if I'm not mistaken. If you have a problem with me well, I guess that's what it is. You're problem.
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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My problem is Michelle can say what she said and no one calls her on it. And finally when someone does, hubby say leave her alone. He sent her out to speak on his behalf. She as Chealsa(sp) are fair game. Michelle is only 5 years older then me. She was not brought to this country chained in the hull of a ship. Her people were not given small pox laced blankets. Nor was she imprisoned because her race attacked Pearl. If that is what she thinks, I don't need her nor want her as a First Lady.
Dude don't go soft on me. I was looking forward to some heated exchanges with you. You flatter me. Explain this to me?? (As i recall you've done this before if I'm not mistaken.) Has someone been talking about me or am I reading into this??
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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riverdalianComment removed: Retracted by user3 Replies
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber
I don't agree with you and you want me to be silent!! Isn't that against every liberal fiber?? Or is it free speech only if I agree with you? I have been told that only conservatives are closed minded. You proved me wrong on that again.
Besides, if a known/suspected terrorist is calling you from overseas and we(U.S.)are not listening, we are fools. And if two terrorist are talking and it is switchboarded there the U.S. and we are not listening, again we are fools.
Everybody wants to give Constitutional rights to non-U.S citizens that are fighting us in a war. WHY? You claim to be former P.I. How many rights did you violate conducting your duties? And don't say you didn't. Or you would had never kept that job. Or that could be why you are a former P.I. now!!
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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First of all, I am an Independent voter, a "centrist" if you will, & you're right. I did some things to achieve my purpose. Yes I lied to some folks, but I had to lie to get to the truth, and to bring an end to right certain wrongs. If that's a violation so be it. When your out in the streets. People are not going to be forthcoming with information when they find out that either you're a detective, or a P.I. Plus if you had bothered to read my profile, you would find out as to why I'm not a P.I. anymore.
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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All I know is that you and Endoscopy are pretty
naive if you think that this administration is solely targeting terrorist groups, and not other citizens for their own illicit reasons. We as a nation are slowly turning into 1936 Berlin, with Homeland Security taking a mode like some Gestapo with its snooping and constant intrusive,frustrating, & rigorous searches of ordinary citizens in example all matters of public transportation who aren't terrorists in any way, shape or form. But, you neo cons elected LeShrub, & his cockeyed cabinet with his entire foibles. Well tell you what. You can have him when his term ends. Peccadilloes, and all. I certainly don't want to see another republican in the WH for any amount of time. Eight years is enough!
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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I did read your profile. It sounds like violating peoples rights made you alot of money.
It is OK if you do it and get payed, but if the Govt, does it to protects its citizens it is wrong? Sounds like a hypocrite to me!!
I am an independent too. But I am sick and tired of people putting down this country. Michelle had very chance , even more to be successful. And she took advantage of it. And this is all she has to say. If that is truely how she feels. She,her hubby has no business being in the White House.
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BronxBomber1 year, 5 months ago
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You have no idea about my vocation or it's functions since you weren't any where near me where I've worked. Once again you have it wrong. I haven't put this country down at all. It's this administration that I am putting down. At least when I did what I did, it was towards the proverbial "bad guys." Unlike this administration who does it to citizens at large irregardless of whether they may be "sleeper cells" or just the ordinary citizens. So try to re-attach that wire that's between you brain to your mouth if you have have anything cogent to say. Get your facts right and try keeping it real for once.
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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Yes I do know a little about your job, I have done simliar work. The proverbial bad guy, if you can't see any bad guys now you are blind. You live in NY, you saw first hand. I have seen what these people can do. And they don't care who they do it to. As long as they kill non-believers. There has only been one person that has been rolled up that was a mistake. He was held for 2 weeks, released, and payed 2 million dollars. And the funny thing, he has not gone public with his story. The money and non disclosure statements he signed must have been enough.
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riverdalianComment removed: Retracted by user2 Replies
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SpareChange1 year, 5 months ago
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I can't believe these cons are criticizing Michelle about patriotism
when McCain has lobbyests working on his campagin who lobby for Saudi Arabia, the junta in mayanmar, the united arab emerets, shell oil to name a few.
McCain is unpatriotric and working with these lobbyests borders on treason.
Wake up Cons, please wake up, McCain is no game.
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Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
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LOL
It take her husband being a serious contender for the presidency for her to be proud of this country. (Hope making a comeback)
And you can't see a problem there?
I hope Obama gets the nomination. Conservatives need him there. Nobody get to the presidency by appealing to the left only. History tells us that. McCain has staked out the right and middle.
Her comment is part of the problem that Obama has. Look at the numbers.
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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Their pastor, his friend a known domestic terrorist , ties with Louis Farrakan(sp). Are you saying Obama is any better? With friends like that we don't need enemies! I don't like McCain either. But I would rather see him in the WH then the alternative.
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SpareChange1 year, 5 months ago
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none of those people are working on Obama's staff, none of thoese peopel rule nations that have armies, buy tanks and planes and bombs.
Why don't you care that McCain has these people working for him as his advisors
Are you so willing to sell the presidency just because you like your party?
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Codi69341 year, 5 months ago
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You are right none of these people work for him. BUT these people influenced him, he seeked out for advice and council. Words and thoughts can be more dangerous then bombs and tanks. Words can cause people to turn these bombs and tanks on the wrong people.
The only thing McCain has going for him is he will fight this war in a way it will be beneficial to this nation. And not run away thinking that our enemy will like us because we left.
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Endoscopy1 year, 5 months ago
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BronxBomber
"this current administration's intrusive invasions of it's citizen's rights"
What about the rights of people to be defended from the terrorists?
What about the rights the liberals take away all the time by way of protecting our health etc. Some places say you can't even smoke in your own house. Trying to control fast food, etc.
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ArgoNunya1 year, 5 months ago
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You claim to be a "conservative Christian", yet support the Democrat Party? Redistribution of wealth, abortion, partial birth abortion, taxes, taxes and more taxes...
Are you being sarcastic or do you really believe that they are closer to your views than actual conservatives, such as The Constitution Party and/or a slim few in the Republican Party?
What Democrats do you align yourself with the most?
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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WHAT?
Republicans are PRO-Abortion!
Where you been? They had SIX years of TOTAL control ... never tried to get an abortion bill.
They just use the abortion issue to get 'not very sophisticated' types to the polls.
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Redistribution of wealth?!
Thats what REPUBLICANS DO!! They take it from the middle class and give it to the WEALTHY!!
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE MASSIVE TAX REBATE WAS????
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TAXES? Republicans work to lower THE WEALTHY's taxes! THATS IT! They lower the middle class taxes incrementally -- but then the STATES have to increase THEIR TAXES because of the shortfall ... oh ... and then there are the INCREASED USER FEES.
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Smaller goverment?
Goerge W. Bush and the Neo-Cons increased the size of goverment durin their administration by MASSIVE amounts. (Ever hear of Homeland Security?)
Sorry Argy ... but you seem to be livin in the past. Times change ... so do political parties.
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jordan111 year, 5 months ago
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I'm proud that I didn't vote for the CON in the white house, and have spoken out against him and his pals who have screwed my country. And I don't refer to my country as my "homeland." Too hitlerish for me. It's the nation of my birth, and the birth of those before me back to the 1600's. It's a nation of beginning intentions that are the most admirable on earth, & each time we reach a milestone toward those goals, I'll be prouder. Just like Mrs. Obama.
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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Im proud of jordan11's participation on Propeller.
I've always found it to be stunningly patriotic --- and a welcome breather from the typical mindless jingoism common to us Christian Conservatives.
Well ... liek the the video that came with this story ... and the MOTIVE behind this story!
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Which is UNCANNILY similar in tone to when OmegaGnosis submitted a story commentin on Barack Obamas Middle Name!
See ... all we Christian Conservatives really want is that everybody looks and sounds alike ... and that we all agree with the 'talkin points'..
Namely:
- America is the Best.
- America does no wrong
- Aint nuthin America can do if we can just get rid of minorities
- When we Neo-Cons say jump ... the rest of you citizens sposeta say 'How High'.
Is that too much to ask of all you maggots ... you who aint Christian Conservative Crazy Neo-Con War Mongers?
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david_nwpa1 year, 5 months ago
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Patriotism is measured in many ways. Wearing lapel pins, saluting the flag, and grandstanding are not among the ways we show pride in our nation. When we work with the poor of this nation to lift them up from poverty, we show pride. When we teach the young of this nation, we show pride. When we accept the fact that this nation was built for all to seek refuge from others who persecute based on overbearing religious beliefs, we show our love of this nation. We do not need to run off to war for oil, or worship any time we want, or own guns to be proud Americans.
If Michelle Obama had reflected on America's weak points over the past 8 years, she would have reason to pause and wonder how it is that the Bush family has squandered the value of being an American and tarnished our nation's name and honor. Patriotic jingoism wins no one points with me.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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You raise very valid points. However, I think it is good to concentrate on the good things about this country every once in awhile. A few good comments have been made in this thread. A few not so good. A few good debates, each with facts, have taken place and been rather respectful of each other. A few not so respectful debates have taken place. Overall jingoism will be here. So will real sentiments based in reality from various figures.
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
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"A few not so respectful debates have taken place. "
Mdiar, if you're referring to our little exchange about Katherine Harris's resemblance to Chewbacca earlier today, I'm not the only man who finds excessively thick back hair on a woman to be a turnoff. You were all..."Meso, there's beauty in all living creatures...blah blah..." Whatever. Can we please get beyond this childishness? I'm wiling to if you are... ;-x
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quackpot1 year, 5 months ago
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Thanks, Nixie,
I'm quite proud to be an American Scientist.
I'm proud to have been able, with the support of American tax payers, to contribute to the world's knowledge base.
I'm proud to have helped, with the support of American dollars, train scientists and physicians from throughout the world who have in turn made a true impact on the health of the world's population.
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RedRiverJ1 year, 5 months ago
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With the accomplishments and opportunity Michelle Obama has had, one would think she might be as proud of her country as the common folk they interview for the commercial. Instead it seems she might have been at more anti-american racists sermons given by Reverend Wright than they both remember.
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SpareChange1 year, 5 months ago
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Give me a break - the press excerpts something Michelle says and you think she's not patriotic
meanwhile, McCain has foreign agents working for his campaign, people who represent Saudi Arabia and other dictators working to make him president
Working with, hiring and taking the money of these lobbyests is unpatriotic. Thats not edited words - thats money and action.
Wake Up
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Preciousvine1 year, 5 months ago
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I am so disappointed in some of our American people! M. Obama stated 'For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I Am Really Proud of My Country'.
She did not say it was the first time ever!
A man can buy his wife a pair of shoes.....and she will be happy...but if he buys her a brand new car or diamond ring..She might say "This is the first time you really made me happy! This doesn't mean that the wife wasn't happy at other times..but apparently for the first time, the husband took the time to give great thought in presenting the wife a gift the next time.
One little word can change the whole meaning of a sentence..and people who likes to manipulate words to get people reaction....look for people who feed into negative comments, without evaluating the whole sentence. After all, what is the harm of leaving out one word "really"?
Once again some of our American people who like excitement....hear what they want to hear and run with it.
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Daylight1 year, 5 months ago
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Nixie
We live in such a wonderful country, with so many reasons to take pride in our homeland. What makes you proud to be an American?
Yeah, that is true but at the same time you should be ashamed of all the high class criminals who killed millions people around the world are your leaders. You are a great country no doubt or denying about it but that is only one side of the coin.
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elzorro21621 year, 5 months ago
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What makes me proud as an American is when there's intelligent political debate instead of low class, out context clips that mislead people from the real issues that affect our country: economy, Iraq War, corruption, cronyism, militarism, lack of health care, education, poverty, energy, and global warming. In the light of all these important things, here we are "debating" MIchelle's out of context interpretation. It just pales in comparison to the real issues.
I am proud to be an American when we tackle and solve real issues like we've done in the past and have the ability to do now.
Z
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rimbaud1 year, 5 months ago
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I am proud, that for the first time in my adult life, it appears we have a population that is willing to put aside their prejudices, and vote for Obama. It appears the torch has been passed to a new generation, that does not experience racial differences (nor sexual preference differences, for that matter) as a hot button.
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Nixie1 year, 5 months ago
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I've always felt a great sense of pride witnessing shuttle launches. Watching our brave and talented astronuats climb on board, seeing the American Flag and "USA" emblazzoned on the side, the anticipation of the countdown and then the thrill as it leaves the earth...so amazing to live in a country where taking trips off the planet are so commonplace that many people do not even notice anymore.
I'm proud of my country.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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And you should be, it is a great country, just as mine is, watching your shuttles take off with the Canada Arm on them does me proud as does many of our other accomplishments, we have less people than Calf. a country bigger than yours and an attitude that makes us welcome the world around.
One of the 3 revered people in China is a Canadian, Dr. Norman Bethune, another Dr (Flemming) had much to do about discovering penicillin, another in polio,
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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I wisht you Canadieans wouldnt be proud.
We Christian Conservatives dont liek to see our neighbors be proud. See, the way WE look at it ... thars only so much pride to go round. And we feel liek we deserve ALL of it.
Yeah ... we see that Canadian flag on that Robotic Arm ... that really p-isses off us Christian Conservatives and Rabid Neo-Cons.
I just have one question ... when Golbal Warmin makes the lower 48 hotter than a griddle ... can we come up to Canada to cool off?
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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BTW ... I dont know what part of Canada you are in but the wifely and I were in Montreal and Quebec City last year. It was real nice. I was pretty surprised at how small Quebec City was.
Have you been to Vancouver BC? I visited several times in the 70s and 80s. It was so awesomely beautiful.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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Had a very good friend and co-worker from Montreal! She loved wrestling, and we used to go to see it at our coliseum. Her name is Joan.
We've gone separate ways since then, moving with our families, but I've always remembered her and the good times we had.
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Dionys1 year, 5 months ago
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"Have you been to Vancouver BC? I visited several times in the 70s and 80s. It was so awesomely beautiful. "
Vancouver and surrounds is absolutely gorgeous. Victoria's nice, too, but a tad too quaint. Though I had one of the best high-teas of my life there. Even better, though, are the San Juans (America) and the equivalent BC Islands.
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned8 Replies
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
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"I'm proud of my country."
That's a start!
Now try being proud of all her inhabitants regardless of race, colour, creed or religious affiliation.
Next stage is applying the same approach to the rest of the world and understanding that its not just a little toy for the US to play with - or drool over if it happens to have a few million barrels of nasty greasy black gunk beneath its surface.
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Wolfie20071 year, 5 months ago
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Goppy1 year, 5 months ago
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david_nwpa1 year, 5 months ago
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Our justice system is indeed a modern marvel. This is the same justice league which made a President by one vote.
I digress. Our justice system is one of the few in the world that still allows the death penalty on such a broad scale. We are in a league with North Korea, China, Vietnam, Iran, and Syria. Perhaps Nigeria and Libya are slightly more restrictive on the death penalty than we are. Makes me proud knowing we kill our prisoners. ***END SARCASM***
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Double post possibly, didn't show up the first time:
Not really. The World Bank and other organizations can "grade" the economy. The United States is roughly 25% of the world economy at the current moment. That is slightly lower then the EU, which has 200 million more people then the United States and is not a nation at this point. Don't forget the US is the 3rd largest oil producer in the world... and when oil prices start to skyrocket, will be sitting pretty due to shale oil.
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skeek1 year, 5 months ago
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To follow through on mesodude's analogy, the World Bank is to the US economy as FOX News is to the Bush Presidency.
"... instruments of economic control, such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF), and World Trade Organization (WTO)... the multilateral institutions that formed what was known in international policy circles as "the Washington Consensus."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JE2...
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
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Uh huh..
And what criteria were used for that assessment?
The $ is in danger of losing its status as a reserve currency and has lost more than half its value against many European currencies including the hardly-mighty Czech crown, for example.
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DropkickaLib1 year, 5 months ago
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Dionys1 year, 5 months ago
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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I'll list just one. Only one, for now. I appreciate the freedom of speech. Its more then just a right to protest. I appreciate that the government has, by and large, acknowledged it cannot stop you from saying things. Even if some of these things are offensive to others and I would never say them, I do appreciate the fact that they CAN be said without fear of retaliation. I appreciate that people can display blatant racism and homophobia and not be legally held accountable for this. I also appreciate that, by and large, the country is holding them up to social accountability. I have friends in Europe who tell me of some laws... they appreciate them, they say. Many of these laws may protect there own feelings. I appreciate the fact that laws don't exist to protect my feelings from words.
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DropkickaLib1 year, 5 months ago
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
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"Hate speech laws cannot exist unless you trample on freedom of speech. They have them in Canada too."
--Actually they can and do co-exist with freedom of speech. What those on the right want is one-way freedom of speech where they can say whatever they want and be free of *any* accountability. Wouldn't *that* be nice? Your rights aren't being abridged if I criticize you for attacking me verbally. If you feel you *must* exercise your freedom of speech regardless of what impact it has on others, be mature enough to accept the consequences.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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No meso. They can't. DK is completely right in that. The second you limit what a person may say, through legal means because it may offend someone, then your rights have been trampled on. They create more problems then they solve. Have you considered the possibility that Canada's higher rate of violence then the US is because they cannot vent in this manner? Or the UK, having a violent crime rate 5 times that of the US, may be because of this? Speech is a necessary tool to vent and it can prevent more atrocious acts from occurring. I'd also like to know who is the homophobe in the room rather then have to guess. It is our responsibility as citizens to make it unacceptable in polite society to act this way... but its also our responsibility to not allow legal repercussions for someone having an opinion, no matter how idiotic it may be.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Another problem such laws create is that they validate that person's opinions. They believe they themselves are superior because they believe that they can take that abuse they dish out. These laws then prevent an open and candid talk with the person about there feelings. It puts up a barrier to that person, one day, perhaps getting over it. It will just build up inside and one day this person could explode. That is my problem with these laws. That's not even recognizing that I don't acknowledge the right of any government to tell me what I can or cannot say. Limiting speech in that manner is a MASSIVE step backwards. It will never be right to do this. Its up to us, as citizens, to get over what people say and be willing to dish it back to them or take other actions that may change that person's opinion.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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In this essay I want to focus on murder (homicide), which is the tenth leading cause of death for males in the United States (much less common for females).
Gathering as much information as possible about the conditions under which murder can occur is a major step towards being able to take preventative action. A prudent step towards reducing one's chance of being murdered is to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So it therefore seems reasonable to begin by determining what some of the "wrong places" are.
Homicide rates are typically quoted as per 100,000 people per year. The rates I quote will be for VICTIMS unless I say otherwise. The 10-year average homicide rates (1987-1996) for Canada averaged 2.3 and for the United States averaged 8.8.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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SELECTED WORST CITIES
MURDER (LATE-1990s)
EUROPE AND USA
CITY
MURDERS
PER 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA 69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA 24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA 22.8
(5) Chicago, USA 20.5
(6) Phoenix, USA 19.1
(7) Moscow, Russia 18.1
(8) Houston, USA 18.0
(9) New York City, USA 16.8
(10) Helsinki, Finland 12.5
(11) Lisbon, Portugal 9.7
(12) San Diego, USA 8.0
(13) Amsterdam, Netherlands 7.7
(14) Belfast, N.Ireland, UK 4.4
(15) Geneva, Switzerland 4.2
(16) Copenhagen, Denmark 4.0
(17) Berlin, Germany 3.8
(18) Paris, France 3.3
(19) Stockholm, Sweden 3.0
(20) Prague, Czechoslovakia 2.9
Nope no Canadian there
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Hannibal, my point had nothing to do with homicide. It had to do with violent crime. In this math equation, I will compare the violent crime rates of the United States and Canada:
Canada has 951 violent crimes per 100k people. With a population of 33 million, that comes out to 330 groups of 100k. That comes out to 313,830 violent crimes in Canada. Canada has a population roughly 1/9th that of the US. So, taking that number and multiplying it by 9, we reach 2,824,470 violent crimes assuming a population equal to the US. At the population the US is at now, we have roughly 1,417,000 violent crimes a year.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/Legal04a.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/violen...
The point of my post was to show that those laws could lead to more violence. Clearly the higher homicide rate is due to what would of been assault becoming murder, due to guns
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Essentially my point was limiting what one may say can intensify the feelings on that subject. This can lead to violent outbursts. How else can I explain the higher rate of violence (not homicide) within Canada? The UK is way worse in violence then any other developed nation I believe. Sorry if you took offense, I was just using evidence I had at hand already that laws limiting hate speech don't seem to do anything and could make things worse.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Hannibal, I'd rather this not turn into a "Who's country is worst" contest. I don't think either of us want that. Plenty of ammunition exists on both sides and it would hijack a thread which, while perhaps aimed at Sen. Obama, has alot of really good things about it too. I just hope that you see what my point was. I fully acknowledge that the US has a massive homicide rate. Last I heard Canada was down to .76 per 100k, better then the figure you quoted. My point had to do with violence. It was based on the central idea that if you remove one means of venting... another, perhaps darker one, could take its place. I really don't know why the actual raw rate is higher. It could be more competent police force, for all I know. I just suggested a theory of what could happen due to those laws and quoted data which backed it up.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Yup. That's why I latch onto the reason for the exceptionally high assault rate being tied into that law. Similar countries, it makes sense. Having two parents as therapists maybe I'm biased for that theory. I thought of it immediately once I saw that Canada had similar laws to the UK on hate speech (if it does, I'm still not sure how reliable DK is on that).
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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The British way? So, laws against inciting racial hatred and the like? I'm not sure about the punishments or anything involved like that... its one of the big reasons that I am a proponent for a more Libertarian philosophy. I see the entire world going in a bad direction... stripping of some rights in the US, others in other countries. How long until these ideas are exported to the US and from the US? I believe the people everywhere need to be willing to keep the government in check. Services are nice and acceptable... they normally don't infringe on rights. But other things are unacceptable to me.
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Candida1 year, 5 months ago
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Mdiar: "I really don't know why the actual raw rate is higher."
It may have a lot to do with the definition the different countries use for violent crimes. From your links:
US definition: "Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault."
.
Canadian definition:
"Homicide
Attempted murder
Assaults (level 1 to 3)1
Sexual assault
Other sexual offences
Robbery
Other crimes of violence2
1. "Assault level 1" is the first level of assault. It constitutes the intentional application of force without consent, the attempt or threat to apply force to another person, or openly wearing a weapon (or an imitation) while accosting or impeding another person.
2. Includes unlawfully causing bodily harm, discharging firearms with intent, abductions, assaults against police officers, assaults against other peace or public officers and other assaults."
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Ahhh finally, an explanation. Thank you... I've asked for that a few times. I've been unable to sleep for a day and a half and have not been thinking clearly. I actually just noticed these notes while looking at the sites more closely while you posted! This isn't the only thread I've asked a Canadian for an explanation, for some reason I was operating on an assumption that the site was a bad one and I'd assume a Canadian would be able to tell better then I. I don't know why. It just entered my mind for some reason. The only good thing about insomnia is getting things done... oh well. Thanks for telling me that. Maybe now I can sleep. I doubt it though... my insomnia is probably due to a bit of a manic depression. Right now I suppose I'm manic!
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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No. Violent crime includes homicide. It also includes assault. It includes forcible rape. It includes alot of things. If you disagree you can look at my completely reputable links and do the math yourself. Or just look at the math I did and make sure I'm not making numbers up. The fact is that homicide makes up a small part of "violent" crime. Homicide rate is not a good indicator for how violent a nation is. All violent crime is.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Didn't post the first time, sorry if double post.
Yeah, I can see it being read like that. I meant violent crime as an inclusive term... actually no stat can really show the violence of a nation. But it would seem to me that the most readily available and logical to use is all violent crime.
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
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"But it would seem to me that the most readily available and logical to use is all violent crime."
--Ok, I'll let you have that one. When I quantify violence (and even if I go with your term of "violent crime") I use a broad range of criteria and so my list won't look like the next person's.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Which is why I just used what each government said ;) While scouting the internet yesterday I found several things... I'm not sure how bad the US is at this, but apparently the UK is supposed to be horrible with how it classifies and reports violent crime, creating a statistic lower then it is in reality. I'm not sure how true that is, however.
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gwhiddon1 year, 5 months ago
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No, I've traveled through BC, the Yukon, and really can't imagine your country haveing 260 million people living in Canada.
Canada in some parts is like Alaska, where I have lived for 5 years. 500,000 people in that state.
Not that many murders in Alaska, as people aren't as crowded together enough to get into conflict.
You Canadians sure are sensitive. You saying you're as crowded as the U.S. is?
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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No,we have less people than Calf. and 30% of out population is in the greater Toronto area, but you seem to get sidelined in your comebacks: stats are usually calculated per 100,000 so it does not matter what the pop is, and at one time maybe still the town of Asension, Alberta had the highest murder rate per capita in N America....pop of 450
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mesodude1 year, 5 months ago
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I think it might be useful for us to define some terms. For one thing, if you have Canada and the UK ahead of the US, I know we're not using the same criteria for measuring violence. With all due respect, it's also not clear to me how you conceptualize hate crimes laws and exactly what way you see them infringing on free speech rights. Maybe you could respond in new post below (if you want) before this text creeping
thing
takes
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v
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;-)
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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I'm not stating hate crime laws. I'm stating laws restricting freedom to say what you like, even if bigoted. I know that Sweden, for example, you are not allowed to talk against same sex marriage. I'm using raw violence. That includes assault rate. The big difference in the US/UK/Canada is this: the gun laws. What would of been an assault in the UK/Canada becomes a homicide. I explained, in depth, the numbers I used (from the government website of the US and I'm not sure, a fairly reputable seeming site for Canada) in a post to Hannibal. It has nothing to do with homicide as a stand alone number. It includes rape, arson and assault. The big tilt in numbers is in assault. So, like I said, in Canada what would of been homicide with a gun, becomes assault due to no gun.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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The Daily
The Daily. Tuesday, December 18, 2001
Crime comparisons between Canada and the United States
2000
Over the past 20 years, Canada recorded much lower rates of violent crime than the United States did. However, rates for property offences have generally been higher in Canada, according to a comparison of police-reported crime between the two nations.
Crime rates in both countries have followed similar trends during the past two decades. After peaking in 1991, rates for both violent and property crime generally declined throughout the 1990s.
Based on selected offences, the United States has had a much higher rate of reported violent crime than Canada. The homicide rate was three times higher in the United States than it was in Canada, while the American rate for aggravated assault was double the Canadian rate. For robbery, the rate was 65% higher in the United States.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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On the other hand, since 1990, Canada has recorded slightly higher rates of property crime, although the rates have gradually been converging during the late 1990s. Canada has higher reported rates than the United States for breaking and entering, motor vehicle theft and arson.
It also seems on how you look at violence,
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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I have no clue Hannibal. I really don't. I'm just basing this on what these two sites are saying and crunching the numbers myself. You can crunch them yourself if you wish and see what you come up with. You may have a superior ability as the serious crunching I did was in the Canadian line to determine the number of "crimes of violence" that happened overall in the country then determining the number if it was around the US population.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/violen...
This is a US government site, of course.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/Legal04a.htm
This site seems like it may be a government site as well.
In one of my other posts I showed the method I used to determine the comparison.
Living in Canada you may be able to better interpret the stats due to various things, like I'm not including everywhere or some such thing.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Also its possible that the Daily Mail isn't using the same criteria for violent crime that the US and Canadian governments do. I'm pulling this from the National Statistics Agency of Canada and the FBI site. They could be using different criteria for the raw number. Another possibility is that they have an incorrect usage of the word "rate" and mean the raw numbers... as in X amount of this crime and Y amount of that crime in comparison to Z amount of this crime in the US. I'll be honest, until I see a flaw in how I calculated things in general, I'm going to believe my numbers are correct. When calculating violent crime per 100k in the US I ended up at 472.3 per 100k, as well, just now. Unless that info from those sites are wrong (which would be odd, as they are government sites) I can't see where I went wrong.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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I'll show the math of how I arrived at the 472.3 per 100k figure. This does negate regional differences as I will be accepting what the above site says (I'm confused because the site seemed to leave off provinces... though most of Canada's population seemed accounted for in it). I took the population of roughly 300 million in the US and I divided it by 100k, I arrived at the number 3000. So 3000 groups of 100k in the US. I then took the 1,417,000 figure from the FBI site. I divided that by 3000 to arrive at a figure of 472.3 per 100k people.
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Mdiar1 year, 5 months ago
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Thanks, again. I've been up a very long time. I've been in an odd mood. My thoughts race and I can't think as clearly as I normally do. I have lots of energy but my judgment is poorer then it normally is. Part of me knew that statistic was wrong. I posted my methodology and the site so many times so someone could tell me how it was wrong. I didn't even notice the definition until a few minutes after I read your first post in reply. Canada is a great country. I hope you aren't casting me in the same mold as someone who attacks Canada or other countries constantly. I'm really not... just someone who
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