Comments for Veterans peace group blocked from D.C. parade »
Posted By bubba2 1 year, 6 months ago in NewsVeterans for Peace, a group that opposes the war in Iraq, has been blocked from marching in a Memorial Day parade in Washington after being told its plans, which once included a casket representing war dead, would be too political for the event. The group dropped the casket plan when the producers of the parade objected, but they were still barred
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tchef1 year, 6 months ago
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mark-stevens1 year, 6 months ago
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protoham1 year, 6 months ago
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jordan111 year, 6 months ago
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It's 'bad' to have a casket in memorial to those who've died? We don't memorialize the fallen? Memorialize is to remember. A casket is symbolic of those who died. That's 'bad?' When did "peace" become a bad thing?
Look. A memorial to our troops is a good thing. However, we all have our own perceptions of what that means. To say that it must be done by the interpretations of some, and the rest discarded, is the height of disrespect. No one has the right to tell other Americans how to think or participate. It's un-American to do that. How ironic.
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injest1 year, 6 months ago
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Jordan
"It's 'bad' to have a casket in memorial to those who've died? We don't memorialize the fallen? Memorialize is to remember. A casket is symbolic of those who died. That's 'bad?' When did "peace" become a bad thing?"
It's BAD to politicize a non-political event.
"Anthony Teolis, treasurer of the Washington-area chapter of Veterans for Peace" "said it was being singled out because of its anti-war views."
Are their "anti-war views" political? If yes then they should be singled out.
"Teolis said "We are a veterans group like any other except we have the word 'peace' in our name,"
Nope, its cause you have a political agenda, and political agendas are not allowed in non- political event honoring the apolitical military.
It requires the Willing Suspension of Disbelief that these groups don't know that the military is apolitical.
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injest1 year, 6 months ago
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"Jim Roberts, president of the Arlington, Va.-based American Veterans Center said "We don't allow groups in the parade that are projecting an opinion. That goes for pro-mission as well as anti-war," Roberts said."
That's consistent much like the rejection coast to coast of IVAW and VFP types in this event.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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That's a good succinct summation of the view taken by the parade organizers and many citizens as well.
I think it's fair to posit that it takes a fair amount of suspension of disbelief to really believe that our military institutions are apolitical. Not only are men and women at arms charged with carrying out our political will outside the U.S., our National Guard are empowered by our State Governors in times that they are needed.
The brass in all branches are duly influenced by those that promise heftier procurements. It was the practice in the past to appoint military rank because of party or personal loyalties. Are you sure it is not still?
The traditions of the fighting forces rely on a certain amount of blind obedience,and acceptance of the lore, the sagas, and the self promoting history. This instills the esprit d'corps, and has been useful to help maintain unit cohesion, as well as command and control.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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Yet only the most naive, or the very young, can accept everything without question, or in toto. The young don't make good recruits only because they are the most fit. It is also because they can be molded. Inducted, indoctrinated, and in the field. A busy army is a maneuverable force, both logistically, and intellectually. The young grunt is often told what, how, and when to think.
The officer corps is a different animal. Think it's apolitical? When in the field their is none so like a God to a recruit, then the General Officer. Now he comes up to you and says..."you're gonna vote Republican, now, aren't cha son?".
When you're told that your ass is on the line with your vote, (and I'm not just alluding to the implied threat of disfavor with command), but your mortal life because the wrong vote could aid the enemy...well do you see where I'm going here. Have you dispensed with all of your disbelief?!
The military is very political, make no mistake about it.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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The military's form of politics, is it's chain of command. The proper description is that it is a dictatorship. It wouldn't function any other way.
Now I've mustered out and resume my life as a civilian. No longer under the chain of command, but still have lawful duties and restrictions regarding the uniform. Veteran soldiers don't make good units. They know too much. They also know that the service is the one institution in this country that you can't change from the inside.
UURRGHRAH!!
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injest1 year, 6 months ago
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sumptuousdigs
"I think it's fair to posit that it takes a fair amount of suspension of disbelief to really believe that our military institutions are apolitical. Not only are men and women at arms charged with carrying out our political will outside the U.S., our National Guard are empowered by our State Governors in times that they are needed"
Apolitical, as in not political as in does not support any political party.
This is really to understand you even stated it but apparently didn't get it so ill try and make it even more simple just for you okay?
"National Guard are empowered by our State Governors"
And the NG is the same if the governor is a Repub, Dem or other. In other words Apolitical.
"our political will outside the U.S" regardless if the Pres is a Dem Repub or other.
Hint it's the same with congress as well.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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injest for me? Thanks.
But you would do well to help yourself.
First look up the definition of politics. Note that it is not defined in the narrow constraints of parties. Now consider that a military parade is a political event usually attended by members of diverse parties, wanting to be seen in a patriotic light. Speeches and homages made to the noble (and to be honest, some not so noble) individuals that have made the sacrifices that we honor so deeply.
All of these events reek of the stench of political maneuvering. Admittedly the ideal of selfless patronage without agendas is put forth, but get in the real world.
Every military parade during wartime is prone to become the "National Strut". Does this really do honor to the ultimate sacrifice?
Or does it just make us feel better?
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injest1 year, 6 months ago
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jordan11, its the group that is band. They are political
From veterans for peace web site
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/
"Veterans For Peace Requests Meeting with Representative John Conyers About Impeachment"
That sure does sound like a "political group don't it.
"A national veterans' organization today sent a letter to Representative John Conyers, head of the House Judiciary Committee, requesting a meeting with him to deliver over 10,000 signatures on a petition to impeach George W. Bush."
Gathering signatures on a petition to impeach George W. Bush sounds like a political ACTION
"Jim Roberts, president of the Arlington, Va.-based American Veterans Center said "We don't allow groups in the parade that are projecting an opinion. That goes for pro-mission as well as anti-war," Roberts said."
That's consistent much like the rejection coast to coast of IVAW and VFP types in this event.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 6 months ago
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A decision to impeach need not be political at all. It is ideally a legal decision based on good evidence that the officer in question has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors". I don't think any party or political orientation is entirely free of lawbreakers or malfeasant members.
It could also be based on a moral view instead of a political view.
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jordan111 year, 6 months ago
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Nope, its cause you have a political agenda, and political agendas are not allowed in non- political event honoring the apolitical military.>>>>>
Peace is a political agenda? Peace is an AMERICAN agenda! The military isn't "apolitical!" Are you daft? The dreams, the hopes, the concerns...everything you can imagine in the lives of Americans, is expressed politically! That's how we merge. Otherwise, we'd all be afloat in our perspective places, with no connections. Our politics is our forum, and war & peace is part of that forum. The military isn't a separate entity. It's part & parcel of the American people, paid for by us! You talk nonsense!
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ETproductions1 year, 6 months ago
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Voltaire's biographer, Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That sentiment is enshrined in the US Constitution in the 1st Amendment.
BOTH sides have the right to free speech. Baring either side is a direct violation of their 1st Amendment rights. In this case, you only need to Bar the oposition to the war to turn the Parade into a political speech in favor of it.
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fourthtunz1 year, 6 months ago
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McPhearson said the group does not dishonor veterans. The parades, which highlight wars waged for political ends, are inherently political, he said.
"It is ridiculous to say we have this political objective when the whole thing is about politics," McPhearson said.
MAYBE YOU DIDN'T READ TO THE END?
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dunkirk1 year, 6 months ago
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"Teolis said the group dropped the casket plan when the producers of the parade objected. But he said the Veterans Center still barred the group from the parade"
Except they dropped the "political" (Im still trying to figure out how honoring the fallen is political) part the parade organizers objected to. SO it seems there is more going on here.
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ML2007Comment removed: Retracted by user
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winstonsmithredux1 year, 6 months ago
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After listening to extreme - and even some moderate - right-wingers shout to the effect that those held in Gitmo are the worst of the worst, proven criminal terrorists and whatnot, can someone tell me why they and the administration they claim to worship have not been asked to explain the releases of sooooo many? With no charges having been brought? With allied countries welcoming them back with open arms?
Why is that? Do you think CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and the media in general are still shilling for BushCorp?
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned7 Replies
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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When is the "political" not political?
When it disturbs no one who might otherwise be given cause to think about the motives of those in power.
The notion that, because no pro-war marchers are allowed, anti-war marches shouldn't be is a canard: what does a veterans march mean, in the largest sense, if not war works?
To have a pro-war contingent would be redundant.
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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Actually it was "bring it on"
G W Bush 2003
*they brought it on
watch how many bombings and terrorist acts occur in England,
and our other allies this Fall..
9/11 was an election day in New York. Those bastards love
symbolism and they have increased in number, not decreased.
Our borders are unprotected and our border guards are being imprisoned for trying to do their jobs while our national guard is protecting Iraquis. This is an historic abomination.
Rome fell for the same reasons!
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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Well, some people think they need hate, despair, vengeance, revenge because it will work out well in the end. Maybe what we learn from a bad situation is that it is a bad situation.
See? Everyone has free will. The free will to wake up one day and say I'm going to help others in need, or the free will to create war, violence, vengeance and anger.
And when we realize that negativity gets us nowhere, we just turn to peace, love and angels.
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Aidenag1 year, 6 months ago
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This same thing happened in Washington state last week in the City of Bellingham. Vets for Peace was blocked from participating in that parade. Though they still showed up and walked the parade route after the parade had technically ended, but people were still lining the steets.
Got tons of attention on my local news. Mostly for the fact that the "Support our troops" crowd who went to the parade were calling combat vets who don't want to see anymore young men killed such nice things as: scum bags, traitors, commies, terrorists and more than a few things i won't repeat here... Was pretty disgusting.
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 6 months ago
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Aidenag I'm glad that the citizens of Bellingham WA stayed after the parade was done to support Vets for Peace.
It saddens, but doesn't surprise me, that people attacked the Vets for Peace. Anyone, including combat vets, that dare speak out against the war, question this administration, seek the truth, is considered the enemy by the right. That's the nicest thing I can say.
I guess the people calling them the names are afraid of what the truth really is.
I am proud of them. Hope they continue to march in other ciites.
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saintetienne1 year, 6 months ago
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"I am proud of them. Hope they continue to march in other ciites."
Let's draw the distinction between the two different types of "Veterans":
There are the vast majority of veterans, whose service I am proud of and am grateful for. These are primarily older vets, in their 70's, 80's and 90's, who served in WWI, WWII and the Korean War. This group also includes the vast majority of Vietnam Vets and Gulf War Vets who selflessly gave service and continue to act honorably and in a dignified manner. Most of them signed up of their own accord, wanted to serve their country, and are proud they have done so. But whether or not they were drafted or joined up out of their own volition, they act dignified, are disciplined and are respectful of their country, their government and, most of all, the citizens they serve. Their service and honor for their country comes before any personal opinions they may harbor.
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saintetienne1 year, 6 months ago
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CONT.
Then there are the malcontent vets. They primarily served in the Vietnam War, were drafted against their will, couldn't run off to Canada, and so ended up being bitter all the way. They now resent the government, are loudmouth liberal Baby-Boomer malcontents who tackily mouth off their own opinions - like a child - without regard to anyone else around them, and, as per usual, want everything to go their way. They look for government handouts, using their service to their country as leverage to acquire housing, welfare, food stamps, etc.
Tacky, disrespectful, selfish.... it's because of these people that the draft should never be re-instated.
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GWHayduke1 year, 6 months ago
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Dontcha get it Will?
Frenchie posts his vile nonsense here so you'll respond and validate his existence.
His continued support and proposed perpetuation of 7 years of failed policy, both domestic and foreign, solidifies his commitment to ideology over logic.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 6 months ago
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NUMPTY: Only you could come up with an accurate description of yourself,,,,malcontents who tackily mouth off their own opinions - like a child - without regard to anyone else around them, and, as per usual, want everything to go their way. They look for government handouts, using their service to their country as leverage to acquire housing, welfare, food stamps, etc.
Tacky, disrespectful, selfish.....ROTFLMAO, carry on oh dense one
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dunkirk1 year, 6 months ago
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ROFLOMAO< and then there are the third who seem to wave the flag continuously, shout constant support for the troops (all the while cutting benefits and denying them care) AND listing numerous excuses why they themselvves were NEVER able to serve, like anal pimples, too important to the family (yeah there are around 4000 families that might like to chat with you about that), too important to the war effort here and home. Yup saint I guess you left YOUR group out.
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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thanks saint:
Now we can all stop thinking or speaking because you have the whole thing figured out..
Ahhhhh....according to you, no soldier is ever allowed to speak out against war, even after seeing his friends blown to bits..
Sounds a bit fascist to me. actually, Fascists would be proud of you.
(oh yeah, not to mention your obvious deep seeded hatred for baby boomers)..Did you notice it?? We did!
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GHOSTWHOWALKS1 year, 6 months ago
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Saint stupid, you are a moron. Malcontent my arse. Read an learn if that is possible for your wittle feeble brain.
Third principal of Scientant life- is the capacity for self sacerfice. The unwaveable, ability to give ones life; for a cause; for a belief.
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jordan111 year, 6 months ago
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But whether or not they were drafted or joined up out of their own volition, they act dignified, are disciplined and are respectful of their country, their government and, most of all, the citizens they serve. Their service and honor for their country comes before any personal opinions they may harbor.>>>>>
Speaking out when you think your country is wrong IS honoring your country. A distinction you have yet to grasp.
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walden31 year, 6 months ago
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 6 months ago
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mark-stevens1 year, 6 months ago
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joey-evans1 year, 6 months ago
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...how is that the "ultimate sacrafice"(?)
Huh? How is it?
Gee, I guess that they went and fought for the U.S. and lost their lives in that fight...that's how. The fact that they may have been against it has no bearing on anything else. Perhaps, I am misunderstanding your question...if I am then I apologize in advance.
JOEY EVANS
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dunkirk1 year, 6 months ago
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You want to re-read that? The ultimate sacrifice is the giving of ones own life for their country. Seems whether you wanted to go or not and whether you supported the war or not, THEY gave their life. How is that NOT the ultimate sacrifice? Considering all the chickenhawks who avoided service, like the Dummya on down in this regime who are they to say WHO is or isnt worthy or rememberance.
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Candida1 year, 6 months ago
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dunkirk: "Seems whether you wanted to go or not and whether you supported the war or not, THEY gave their life."
The definition of sacrifice is: "The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person."
I guess Mark's point was that "offering" implies volition, and you cannot willing offer something that is forcibly taken from you. Those who were forced into a war they disagreed with had their lives taken away from them by force; they didn't offer it.
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Candida1 year, 6 months ago
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Not completely. Obviously very few people volunteer to become soldiers with the explicit intent of sacrificing their lives, but the possibility of death is implicit in the the service they volunteer for. They offer their service, to give whatever is required of them, up to and including their lives.
I'm sure there are degrees of "offering" among those who are drafted; some go willingly, and some hate even the thought of it. When you are simply taken, it's the same as being taken into a forced labor camp where you also might die, but not as a result of some perceived duty or offering on your own part.
I don't want to glamorize the volunteers; defending one's country entails some nobility, but I don't see war in general as heroic. All wars are tragic in my eyes.
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protoham1 year, 6 months ago
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You make a very good point, that would be murder. Seems like Kennedy and Johnson share that title, at least Nixon stopped it. And they call it the good old days, there was very little good about it.
Fortunately we no longer have a draft.
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lfergie8121 year, 6 months ago
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Nixon didn't stop it because he wanted to but because of the pressure of protesters at home. But it is only fitting that the Republican president stopped the Vietnam War because it was a Republican president that started it. There were reports that Kennedy was planning to end the war which some speculate was one of the reasons he was assassinated. But that would be a conspiracy theory wouldn't it.
They call it the good old days because jobs were plentiful and a man could earn a wage to support his family without the wife and kids having to work.
"Fortunately we no longer have a draft."
If it were left to Donald Rumsfeld he would have reinstated it.
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crghss1 year, 6 months ago
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joeblowe1 year, 6 months ago
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"We also need to honor and support our living veterans as well" - Veterans Day is for that. Not that it isn't appropriate EVERY day, but Memorial Day is for those KILLED in a war more than those left alive. "MEMORIAL" Day - see; in memory of. I'm with the guys that want to shut down the Iraq debacle, but I don't really want them detracting from the time spent to honor those fallen in WWI or WWII or Korea or VietNam or even those KIA in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't really think it's appropriate.
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raats6662Comment removed: Retracted by user19 Replies
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ningyo1 year, 6 months ago
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Beau78901 year, 6 months ago
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memestryker1 year, 6 months ago
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I agree with both ningyo and Beau. Some people will be offended, and others will think it's appropropriate. The District of Columbia is probably terrified that violence will break out and those carrying the casket might be attacked.
Some see the country as a political powder keg, and they are just waiting for it to blow.
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lfergie8121 year, 6 months ago
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He got a neg from a whack job. Beau is right because it's Memorial Day and it's to honor our soldiers that have died whether in combat or after they have come home. To deny the veterans the right to march after they have discarded the casket idea is wrong. I guess the very idea of some veterans not supporting the war is enough to scare a lot of people.
I must add a note of edit. Memorial Day is also the day to honor your loved ones that have passed. Not just veterans.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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I've served in a combat roll in the US Navy. I think it would be terribly offensive to remember veterans by marching with an empty casket. Then again, I think it's terrible when the press only wants to film funerals and caskets for the anti-war news programs. This is Memorial Day. You have 364 other days to make asses of yourselves, this isn't the place.
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lfergie8121 year, 6 months ago
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BB64, you're right that the parade should not be used as a protest march because it's a time to honor our loved ones that have passed and this is how some people want to honor the veterans that have died.
"Teolis said the group dropped the casket plan when the producers of the parade objected. But he said the Veterans Center still barred the group from the parade."
I also feel it's wrong to bar them from the parade after they dropped the casket idea. Why did the Veterans Center bar them after they met the Veteran Center's standards?
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lfergie8121 year, 6 months ago
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That's, to borrow a phase for another, bovine excrement. What are they going to do?? Pull the casket out of their a$$ after the parade has started?? They're enforcing punishment on the veteran group for being against the war. Plain and simple.
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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Yeah, everything we've been doing just so well should never ever change, right?? You can come out of your cave now!!
LET US NEVER FORGET!
Memorial day is to watch pretty fire engines, have cookouts and kick off the un-official beginning of the summer.
We wouldn't want to make anybody rethink its true meaning!
Give it the respect it has earned..
Get out your hibachi!
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1-2-Oscar1 year, 6 months ago
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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It is not a political statement. It is humanist statement, unless you really believe that marching bands, horse crapping in the streets and cookouts is an appropriate "memorial" to war..
They are trying to memorialize all those who have been lost to protect the rights of those who want to prevent more deaths..
Get it?
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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Apparently you don't get it.
"pin head"???
A person with a thinking and functional brain AND HEART cannot
physically fit those emotions in a pin..I have both.
Wrong again!!
Apparently you have no perception of how commercialized and
politicized this holiday has become. I hope on your island they don't run out of fire engines, hot dogs, charcoal and barbecues or your people might be forced to think about what the day is really supposed to mean..
MEMORial Day..Remembering the horrors of war, not enjoying a cookout while amidst the thoughtless continuation of pumping out more innocents to have to have to MEMORalize...
Your island is very short sighted..
But hey, you're not short on the name calling when you can't bring any value to the discussion...
(it is supposed to be a discussion)
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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Thank you VERY much! The contempt here has led some to become so hostile they'd rather throw out mean names than
contribute a decent point. This is what happened in the past 2 or so years when I run in to Bush apologists..They stopped the "if you don't like America move to another country some time around 2006. They can't have a civil conversation. ot always deteriorates into a name calling slogan.
When Bush's credibility deteriorated at its height
(around the Gonzalez, then Scooter time) they finally began sliming away and we no loner heard the 2006-2007 "cut and run accusations".. Then the surge came and they slid out from under their rocks to boast how wrong all those nasty liberals were, and then they realized that they were on the wrong side again, but they arose to fight that evil two-timing liberal McCain, but that didn't seem to work out, so now they love him (deep breath).
Won't they ever stop supporting all that damages our country?
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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You can use all of the parables you want, but NONE has
added to this discussion..
It is too late for the earlybird to get the worm, but so far you definitely are the slug here!!
We're still here "flocking" together. How the "flock" are you adding anything?
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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"...unborn living, living dead. Bullet strikes the helmet head. Yeah, it's all over, for the unknown soldier..."
_Doors
Why not strive to keep politics out of wars? When political negotiations are not persued, war is often inevitable. If the politician urges war before exhausting every reasonable alternative, he is not a statesman, but a warrior, and needs to be in the front ranks. "Peace with honor" is but another jingistic euphemism for "keep on fighting, my pride (vanity) is at stake".
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joeblowe1 year, 6 months ago
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Although I can see that it SEEMS horrible to exclude ANY veterans from marching in a parade intended to HONOR those fallen in war, perhaps it would be more appropriate for these PARTICULAR vets to march in a VETERANS DAY parade. Clearly, if they are able to march, they have not been killed in a war. Not that I don't agree that they SHOULD be seen and heard, but MEMORIAL day is for honoring those LOST in war, not for rallying anti-war sentiment. I suppose an argument COULD be made that the best way to honor the dead would be to see that no more were killed, but then you'd have to let in the group that wanted to send in MORE troops to get killed so there would be more to honor next year. Best to leave the politics OUT of this particular holiday event to the extent possible, I'd say.
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walden31 year, 6 months ago
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I'm sure there will be plenty of patriotic chest thumping at the parade.
"It was a time of great exulting and excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest depths of their hearts..."
http://www.lexrex.com/informed/otherdocuments/w...
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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If they're going to do that, they have to do it in a way no one will object.
Our Girl Scout group has built and painted a wonderful float for Memorial Day parade in our local neighborhood. We won first place last year.
How did we show our support for peace? Well, first of all we weren't anti-war or anti-anything. That does no good.
Second, we painted hearts, flowers and angels all over four 4 x 8' pieces of plywood and stood them up on a flat bed. It was wonderful. (Maybe we should post this as a story for Propeller?) We wrote love, peace, love, Goddess, angels all over the float. We painted more signs. We painted foam board signs with love, peace and angels. The kids carried those.
Never got in any trouble and won two awards for the float. No one said anything, even the Veterans judging the parade. They just thought it was "cute"
See? They could have done it this way too.
You just can't argue with love, peace, hearts and flowers and angels.
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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I don't know if I never say a cross word. I have had plenty of those in my life time.
Yet, I hope on this board I can leave people with a sense of hope and peace and knowing that they are already blessed and truly loved.
Manytimes it does not seem like that. We are bombarded with diffficulties. Every day is full of a pile of you know what.
But in the end, we do persevere and we do learn many things.
My daughter says (at age 10), life is learning "new paths of love" and I do agree with that.
But I am not a saint, anymore than everyone else is a saint. And if you can get thru this existence without recreational addictions, abusing others, and really bad things, then you deserve sainthood too. Life is not easy.
Everyone that survives another day on earth without committing some heinous felony should give themselves a pat on the back.
You too, Walden 3.
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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Maybe kids, moms and Girls Scouts can get away with messages no one else can?
We even did a new mock up of a US flag with hearts and flowers on it where the 50 stars would go, the blue was changed to orange and the red stripes were changed to pink.
very cute. very heartwarming.
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tgrnry1 year, 6 months ago
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The purpose of Memorial Day is to remember those who fought in wars.
Those fighters who were killed and who are now being remem-
bered memorialize the human costs of engaging in war.
What greater demonstration in parades remembering our fallen can there be than marchers for peace so that such a waste of life will not occur again?
This is so well exemplified when slackers such as Bush and draft-dodgers such as Cheney have falsely led our country to murder thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women and children and criminally caused the deaths of thousands of American warriors who died for lies and other's greed and now lie wasted in graves we so proudly hail.
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memestryker1 year, 6 months ago
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The good news is, they can't be denied a permit to gather peaceably, so they can still hold a rally that doesn't directly interfere with the parade in a a central area with lots of visibility.
As long as they stay on sidewalks or in crosswalks as they walk along, anyone can carry a sign or wear clothing with most messages any time (they can't threaten public officials' lives, for example).
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memestryker1 year, 6 months ago
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Amazingly, Washington, DC does not limit freedom of speech on public sidewalks as long as people don't violate noise or other typical ordinances, for example. In fact, a lot of people visit the park across from the White House just to see the variety of people with pet causes. It's better than a circus!
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emailkyloe1 year, 6 months ago
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If Memorial Day is designed for the rememberance of any specific war or succession of wars of any given country, then everything moral/unmoral these wars were attributed to should be identified by which the causes that had, in first to last instance, driven and motioned for their existance to a military conclusion/persuasiveness.
By democratic right, any veteran populous affected will therefore freely partiscipate in such an opportunistic event.
Else, in a republic you can simply opt for a show of power and unity under a strictly controlled atmosphere; such as the one currently looming. If all is good, then all will continue to go well...
Either way, "Lest We Forget".
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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I'm a vet and my wife is currently serving in Qatar and Iraq. I don't feel having a peace group belongs in a Veteran's Day parade. I feel they have a right to protest but this isn't it. This is a day where we reflect on the buddies we've lost, thank those still with us and pray for those currently serving. You have 363 other days to protest and make your voices heard, this isn't it.
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Will13131 year, 6 months ago
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crghss1 year, 6 months ago
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Will13131 year, 6 months ago
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Where did he say he fought for freedom?
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I've served in a combat roll in the US Navy.
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WHY pray tell what else would he fight for...please try to keep up...
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Who's freedom is being suppressed?
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If you don't know well you might just be too stupid to understand...
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crghss1 year, 6 months ago
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So you took "served in a combat roll" and twisted it in to "fought for freedom". To support you little slogan. So AGAIN, where did HE say he fought for freedom.
So you don't have an answer so you ridicule, nice. But the truth is they are free to do what ever they want.
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Will13131 year, 6 months ago
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crghss1 year, 6 months ago
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To protect his fellow solider/sailor. To complete the mission he was assigned. To follow the orders he was given to avoid the consequences if he didn't. You'd have to ask him what the reasons are, maybe to collect a pay check. But he never stated, Implied or inferred it was "fought for freedom". You made that up. So rather admit you are wrong you sink to personal attacks. Guess we know what your made of.
But AGAIN, what freedom was suppress. Here's a tip. Rather then sink to personal attacks, just say I don't know.
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Will13131 year, 6 months ago
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I support the actions in Iraq but would fight and defend your rights to free speech if you disagreed with me. Just not on Memorial Day or Veteran's day.
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also from HIS comments.. so I really don't think anyone with 1/2 a brain has a problem connecting the dots.. that he believes in AMERICA and fought for HONORABLE purposes..
I don't agree with many of his posts but I appreciate his and all the veterans service...
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crghss1 year, 6 months ago
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None of those rights were denied. They could have their own parade. "peaceful assembly" How where they stopped from doing this? The ONLY think that was denied was their participation in THIS parade. Did they try and have their own parade? Did they try and stand on a corner to protest anything of their choosing?
I read the constitution. Nothing in there about being allowed to participation in any or every parade.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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Peace keeping was my last service. I didn't enjoy it. Serving under a NATO command is more political then military. Having to ask permission before you're able to return fire didn't seem to be the best use of our time, but it's part of the game that eventually played out.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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Constitutional Freedom? Give me a break. I'm only asking for one day without the lefty protesters. I suppose if that's such a sacrifice, I think we should eleiminate the whole day. Get rid of veteran's day too while you're at it. Give yourselves a day why don't you. "Protester's Day". Take may first. I'm sure the communists would welcome you.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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I reread you comments. Sorry, I'm still on medical leave but still manage to go into my office twice a day.
Freedom of speech? Assembly? This was a parade but on not a protest march or some other issue. In fact with the permits and such, it's protected as a private affair. This is the same reason I can't march in opposition to the pride fest parades they have. This isn't a Constitutional thing at all. But I'm sure from the postings here, you will find an activist judge somewhere to force the issue.
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Will13131 year, 6 months ago
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I wasn't the one questioning your motivation.. but others seemed to think it less than honorable..
and while the parade issue is as you say not a constitutional issue..
to not allow protests at any time or any place is SIMPLY UNAMERICAN.. ..
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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Can you follow this conversation?
If he was an American soldier they can ALL infer that they fought for freedom.. What'd the big deal..Why, does he claim he fought for the money, or for slavery (opposite of freedom)?
So, in crayon (use your imagination)
THE FREEDOM THAT IS BEING SUPPRESSED is those who wish to elevate the awareness of the Iraq occupation atrocity by marching...That right is being suppressed by the neswest advocates of political correctness THE PRO-WAR Right.
(how politically correct and un-American of them)..
Get it now?
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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I visited a few places on behalf of the taxpayers. Grenada and Panama were full combat operations. Then pulled ship duty and visited the Middle East. Gulf War. Nothing glamorous or pleasant. Tried retiring but was called back a couple of times. Didn't like the playing target practice where we were the targets in Yugoslavia. I mean great peace keeping...
As to slogans, it wasn't meant to be a slogan. All I'm asking if for 1 day not to be a protester's day. If they can't use the other 364 days per year, then let's give up Memorial Day and end it now. I don't need a 3 day weekend that badly.
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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You are entitled to your opinion, but so are they. If you could save some lives by precautionary measures and better planning, wouldn't you favor that??
Isn't compounding a grievous atrocity because you prefer to be
a rule follower kind of stupid and even more irresponsible?
This is an opportunity to make a statement to saves lives. I'd rather harm some people's feelings than destroy their families..
Are you supporting political correctness now??
(I didn't think so)
Can we all stop living in a cowboy world??
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 6 months ago
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You also have the right to smoke, have sex and be stupid, but please don't do it in front of us..OK
Your comment is stupid.. I like cowboys too, but I don't want to go out and kill Indians. I'm talking about the mentality,
and even you know it! if you're joking, then ha ha ha..
if you're serious...then ha ha ha!
You also have the right to remain silent.
It is only your history here that immediately inclines most to assume it was a real accusation (my hating rights). If it was not, then I apologize, but we have not established that comfort level here based on you past year of posting.
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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Does this mean that church groups can't be in a Memorial Day parade and put peace, love and angels signs on their floats?
Can they quote Yeshua who said "blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called children of God/dess?"
Just wondering.
And I apologize in advance if I have more questions than answers.
Maybe life has more questions than answers.
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hdthehn1 year, 6 months ago
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Makes one wonder what those veterans who sacraficed life and limb were fighting for? I thought it was for freedom. It appears the organizers of this parade, and some posters on this thread, do not see it that way.
Why do they hate freedom?
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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It's my opinion that for some it's a reaction to insecurity. I know that when I'm secure about my position, or my 'cause', I have no trouble tolerating detractors. Those that are just cranks, I can ignore. Those that have positions that can refine mine, are a welcome asset. And those that can shed light on my oversights can be the most valuable.
For some others it's a cover for an agenda. Racism, bigotry, theocracy, some notion that we are a super race, or maybe God's chosen people. All of these fantasies of infallibility are pretty good signs of deep fear, a profound insecurity. What do you think?
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quackpot1 year, 6 months ago
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Denying the political overtones of war totally trivializes the sacrifices that American soldiers have made.
Ignoring the political context or war turns a parade of respect into a largely-ignored event that marks the start of summer.
By denying the politics behind all wars, the organizers have removed the heart. Without a heart, can there be a viable body?
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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Excellent observation (you are no) quackpot. To the victors go the spoils. After the ACW, southern women started the tradition of adorning (or decorating) the graves of their fallen. To them, heroes all, and I doubt if they were using the National Flag or any Federal decor. The rest of the nation took notice and thought it befitting to do likewise.
One of the best political speeches ever given was by Abraham Lincoln at the official opening of the National Cemetery at Gettysburg. He defined the reason for the conflict, and the meagerness of our ability to honor those that could no longer hear us. Incidentally, no Confederate soldiers were interred there.
Wars are sustained by plucking the strings of the heart. It is an essential element that makes a people give up their blood and their treasure to do the unthinkable, to slaughter other human beings.
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sumptuousdigs1 year, 6 months ago
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The question is not whether or not we honor our soldiers by what means...but do we dishonor them by committing them to unjust war. The losers in many a military contest could still proudly and openly honor their heroes, but the ones that engaged their blood in conflicts that history would later judge criminal, or wicked, have no parades. Sad, isn't it. For the mothers I mean.
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hyperbola1 year, 6 months ago
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Frankly I have more respect for soldiers like this one than for those who participate in the Bush / Cheney war crimes.
Ehren Watada
On Saturday night, I was lucky enough to be at the Veterans for Peace National Convention. For that night, Lt. Ehren Watada was able to give the following speech, which I've just received permission to post here. The speech was met with a powerful, standing ovation from the vets who've been there.
Lt. Ehren Watada, for those who don't already know, became the first commissioned officer to publicly refuse deployment to the unlawful war and occupation in Iraq. While doing this on June 22, 2006, Watada said, "As the order to take part in an illegal act is ultimately unlawful as well, I must refuse that order."
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hyperbola1 year, 6 months ago
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Just as Watada took the stage and began to speak, over 50 members of Iraq Veterans Against the War filed in behind him. Watada, surprised by this and obviously taken aback by the symbolic act, turned back to the audience, took some deep breaths, then gave this speech:....
http://www.truthout.org/article/dahr-jamail-ehr...
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unome21 year, 6 months ago
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Everyone in America and the world should be screaming from the top of their lungs to stop our genocide and occupation of Iraq. This horrible unjust misery that we are bringing to the Middle east for our corporate oil masters will likely destroy what is left of our economy. We shame the soldiers who fought and died in real wars. The Neo-con elite have a plan to bankrupt the American middle class and bring us to the level of third world peasant workers.
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Candida1 year, 6 months ago
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crghss: "To the Iraqi's and all the soldiers in Iraq this seems like a real war."
What kind of war is it? According to the White House, it's not a civil war. It's not a war against a country either because the Iraqi government is not the enemy. So what kind of real war is it?
"NBC News has decided the change in terminology is warranted -- that the situation in Iraq, with armed militarized factions fighting for their own political agendas, can now be characterized as civil war."
"NBC's First Read reports that the response was swift: "The White House is objecting this morning to descriptions of the Iraq conflict as a civil war."
http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/05/20/t...
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Candida1 year, 6 months ago
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The objection to calling it a civil war was repeated again in the past few days:
'"As long as I am making this formal request, please allow me to take this opportunity to ask if your network has reconsidered its position that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war," he wrote.' (Gillespie for the White House)
http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/05/20/t...
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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Memorial Day is an incredible day where the soldiers of the past walk in parades with children of the future who ride on floats that contain words of peace and love.
Children will only talk of peace and love. The soldiers can talk of the horrors of war.
And we remember the real wars, the ones perhaps where no soldier truly fought. The only people that fought were the women and the children.
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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The women of the Congo who are brutally raped every day and no nation comes to their rescue, only the crazy doctors, only the Doctors without Borders; and the women of Sudan, Dafur and their girl children who are raped and brutalized and live in poverty in refugee camps. Where are the soldiers to protect them? Maybe they will come. Maybe the US will stop saying the funds for programs for women, girls and infants to give medial aide is being used for abortions so they must be withheld, when the funds are used for raped women, girls that bear children too early and are left disfigured and abandoned, infants that need clean water, diarrhea medicines that cost pennies, and all sorts of medical needs.
I think the world need soldiers of war. But the war is not fought by munitions. It is fought by basic medical care, clean water, education and assistance to families in poverty.
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koranagirl1 year, 6 months ago
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There are many soldiers on this earth that fight those wars every day.
They do not carry munitions. They do not wear uniforms.
Their tools of war are hope, understanding, sympathy and love. They minister to those left in poverty, illness, illiteracy and those who have been abandoned.
Many people today fight every day to assist those in need.
They are the true soldiers of Mother Earth. They need no weapons, they need no uniforms, badges, awards, glory or speeches.
I submit that Memorial Day is for them. Mother Earth and the angels do not forget and She loves them truly.
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jaern1 year, 6 months ago
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"..after being told its plans, which once included a casket representing war dead, would be too political for the event."
That would be a true representation. Perhaps they should have considered carrying a "Mission Accomplished" banner instead.
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