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Posted by: Dionys 1 year, 6 months ago
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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Yep, those are narly scriptures for sure. But, WHERE do they tell a Christian in THIS day and age, to break treaties with non-Christians, and, after, say, Easter, kill non-Christians like Quran 9:1-5 commands in such away that seems MORE than just history? Let us know, O "I'm not a Muslim". Lying Taqqiya? Yeah, I think it is, sorry, Dionys. LOVE to be able to believe what you say. Not your fault. Quran's fault.
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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Oh please. Claiming the Qur'an says one thing (which it doesn't) while the Bible is just "history" and doesn't "really" command people to kill those who aren't Christians is the most disingenuous garbage I've seen spew out of your mouth yet.
If you're going to spew garbage about the Qur'an, you should be able to quote it and then discuss the history, setting and original language. Surah 9:1-5 (It's interesting you omit 6, where Muslims are required to grant 'Pagans' safe asylum should they ask for it) -- anyhow Surah 9:1-5 refers to 'Pagans.' Jews and Christians, according to Muslim Tradition, are not 'Pagans.' Surah 9:1-5 says nothing about Easter or killing Christians, Jews or even Pagans.
It's always amazing how everyone chooses to forget (conveniently) that the God of Islam is the God of the Jews is the God of Christianity.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"Oh please. Claiming the Qur'an says one thing (which it doesn't) while the Bible is just "history" and doesn't "really" command people to kill those who aren't Christians is the most disingenuous garbage I've seen spew out of your mouth yet." So, where are the Bible scriptures for Christians to kill non-Christians?
"If you're going to spew garbage about the Qur'an, you should be able to quote it and then discuss the history, setting and original language. Surah 9:1-5 (It's interesting you omit 6, where Muslims are required to grant 'Pagans' safe asylum should they ask for it) -- anyhow Surah 9:1-5 refers to 'Pagans.' Jews and Christians, according to Muslim Tradition, are not 'Pagans.' Surah 9:1-5 says nothing about Easter or killing Christians, Jews or even Pagans." So, kill any pagan who ISN'T a Christian or Jew? What about Quran 5:29-30?
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"It's always amazing how everyone chooses to forget (conveniently) that the God of Islam is the God of the Jews is the God of Christianity." How come He/They tells Christians to accept Christ as Savior to make it into Heaven, and tells Muslims to do five times a day of butt in
the air, or, dying in try to kill those who don't believe like you?
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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"How come He/They tells Christians to accept Christ as Savior to make it into Heaven, and tells Muslims to do five times a day of butt in
the air, or, dying in try to kill those who don't believe like you? "
Are you really this ignorant? I almost believe you are. But then you lie a lot.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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Where have I lied? YOU are the one who says he's not a Muslim, yet, sounds like muhairi8. ARE you? By the way, IF you aren't a Muslim, list five reasons as to WHY you aren't a Muslim. IF you can, I'll think that maybe you AREN'T lying. Until then, I'll have to keep on thinking you are a Jihadist using the blessings of Quran 3:28 and 16:106 to LIE. So, Mr. "I'm not a Muslim"...LIST five reasons as to why you AREN'T a Muslim. LIST them...I DARE you. :)
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Thinker221 year, 6 months ago
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> Oh please. Claiming the Qur'an says one thing (which it doesn't) while the Bible is just "history" and doesn't "really" command people to kill those who aren't Christians is the most disingenuous garbage I've seen spew out of your mouth yet.
I agree that such claims are garbage. The fact is, however, that tens of thousands Islamist terrrorists supported by tens of Millions Muslims DELIBERATELY attack innocent men, women and children in the name of Allah and Islam. Christians, apparently, stopped doing it for some 300 years or more.
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Thinker221 year, 6 months ago
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Some people "hear" things they're willing to hear. The interesting detail in Dionys' response is that he DID NOT HEAR my statement about tens of thousands Islamist terrrorists supported by tens of Millions Muslims DELIBERATELY attack innocent men, women and children in the name of Allah and Islam.
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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Be seperate from non-Christians:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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Kill non-Christians:
"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10
Hypocrite.
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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"Again, HOW does this tell a Christian to kill a non-Christian in this day and age like Quran 9:1-5, 29, 30 does with Muslims?"
See comments below. You are lying. Which explains your obsession with lying.
Surah 9:1-5, 29 or 30 don't say any of the things you claim. Which if you read them you would (well maybe you wouldn't) understand.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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I wonder if the 45 British Islamic MEDICAL doctors who tried to set off bombs at two Scottish airports would agree with your take of Quran 9:1-5? May YOU continue to think they don't mean what they mean to me, those doctors, and Bin Ladin, because, really, I'd rather fight you in threads than have you go to pieces trying to go the way of suicide bomber, O "I'm not a Muslim".
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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"Yep, those are narly scriptures for sure. But, WHERE do they tell a Christian in THIS day and age, to break treaties with non-Christians, and, after, say, Easter, kill non-Christians like Quran 9:1-5 commands in such away that seems MORE than just history?"
Have you read Surah 9:1-5? or even 9:1-6? Obviously not. It has nothing about killing non-Muslims in it. It has nothing about breaking treaties *except* where faith in the treaty has been broken by the other side.
Commentary from A. Yusef Ali's version of the Qur'an:
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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"The Pagans [which don't include Christians or Jews]...frequently made treaties of mutual alliance with the Muslims. The Muslims scripilously observed their part, but the Pagans violated their part again and again when it suited them. After some years' experience it became imperative to denounce such treaties alltogether. This was done in due form, with four months' notice, and a chance was given to those who faithfully obeserved their pledges, to continue their alliance."
Not only is your reading (well.. we all know you didn't actually read Surah 9) an out and out lie, but your claim that it is meant for modern use, rather than the fact that it is an historical reference just as you claim the Bible passages are, is.. yes.. another lie.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"The Pagans [which don't include Christians or Jews]...frequently made treaties of mutual alliance with the Muslims. The Muslims scripilously observed their part, but the Pagans violated their part again and again when it suited them." So, Muhammed LEARNED to dissolve treaties because of the PAGANS!?!?
"After some years' experience it became imperative to denounce such treaties alltogether." Muhammed DID learn to dissolve treaties from the Pagans!
"This was done in due form, with four months' notice, and a chance was given to those who faithfully obeserved their pledges, to continue their alliance." Trying to make it sound like an historic event, I see. MAY MOST Muslims believe you here, Dionys.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"Not only is your reading (well.. we all know you didn't actually read Surah 9) an out and out lie, but your claim that it is meant for modern use," Sounds like it to me. The 45 British MEDICAL doctors probably thought so also.
"rather than the fact that it is an historical reference just as you claim the Bible passages are, is.. yes.. another lie." Well, IF I'm lying, AS you claim, WHY do I call attention to things people can read for themselves? Don't you think people, if they wanted to, could SEE if what I was presenting was true or not? HOW does that make me a liar?
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Dionys1 year, 6 months ago
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Second commentary to Surah 9:
"The sacred duty of fulfilling all obligations of every kind, to Muslims and non-Muslims, in public as well as private life, is a cardinal feature of muslim ethics."
These are the commentaries meant for *Muslims* to read. These are the teachings of their Prophet and subsequent teachers.
It is apparent to me, and to anyone that actually reads the passages you've claimed to have read (but which you obviously haven't) that you are the liar. Which explains your obsession with lying in general.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"YUSUFALI: A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
PICKTHAL: Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.
SHAKIR: (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement." What's this "Freedom of immunity", folks? What's that mean to you?
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"009.002
YUSUFALI: Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
PICKTHAL: Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance)." Sounds like Satan, who is a deceiver in MY faith.
"SHAKIR: So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers."
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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009.003
YUSUFALI: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans." But...why...WHY, O "I'm not a Muslim"?
"If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve," Sounds like the breaking of a treaty is due UNbelief, folks. What ELSE could it be here that a treaty is dissolved by the Muslims?
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
PICKTHAL: Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). Ok...THAT sounds reasonable. Let's continue.
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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"009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
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Mutainia1 year, 6 months ago
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Read it again, folks. This war on pagans is because "they reject faith". Or, is that a lie like the sun "running to a resting place"?
"YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know." Nice to see Allah being kind to the ignorant pagans, atleast.
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