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Posted by: BB64 1 year, 6 months ago
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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Berk, you're thinking like an American with all of the rights and beliefs in law and order. We're dealing with a group of terrorists who at best should be considered spies. They're military trained and dress in civilian cloths. They tend to target soft targets, town squares, markets, schools and the like. Prior to Jimmy Carter signing the PLO protection act, captured prisoners would have been considered spies. FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, Nixon and Ford agreed, refusing to give special rights to terrorists. The UN and Carter sided with the PLO and against Israel. It seems Carter's incompetence has once again bitten us in the butt.
As to American's caught fighting or supporting the terrorists, I'm not sure how to handle them. They're guilty of treason and an enemy combatant. The final outcome should be death but I'm not sure if that solves anything.
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walden31 year, 6 months ago
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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santa01 year, 6 months ago
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things wouldn't have gone poorly had they just been treated like human beings accused of a crime from teh onset. now there is a backlog of 6 years... one more way in which the failed (and now illegal) policies of this administration are reeking havoc for years down the road.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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Fish, perhaps it's that I've seen bad things men can do during a war or police action. We're holding a group of men that if released will go on to cause more terror, murder and damage. In many cases they don't want to go home because if they do, they've been tried in absentia, found guilty and will be executed. We held them because of information they had concerning their theater of operation.
Do I think they're animals, no. Most animals won't kill for fun. This group targets women and children trying to cause the most damage and hurt by killing innocents. That's where I think they lose the humanity. Though I haven't carried a rifle in many years, if called upon, I'd have no problem serving on their firing squad or gallows detail.
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santa01 year, 6 months ago
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so then YOU would be willing to kill for fun then? if called apon i mean?
any body who is being kept purely for 'information regarding the theater of operation' certainly doesnt need to be behind bars.
theyre being held because they are bad guys. i know that. so lets try them. convict them. give them a cell and a basketball hoop and leave them on that island, i dont care. but it is imperitive that they are given the chance to defend themselves in the event that they are not like the bad guys that they are being held with. thats all this case is about.
should they be able to defend themselves? yes. should thye not convince an american judge that they are innocent do they deserve to be turned back over to the military for 'safe keeping'. yes.
whats the problem there?
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Teagen1 year, 6 months ago
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It's clear you didn't read his comments. Former Navy Seal. No one kills for fun. What he said if called upon to execute terrorists, he wouldn't lose sleep over it. As someone who serves, I understand the comments, though poorly explained.
Because of the nature of the crimes they've committed and the intel used to identify them, I don't think an open court is the best answer. Unless you like the idea of informants being captured by Alqueada and killed. Most of the guys here have long CIA rap sheets. Open those up and you expose hundreds of special operations groups. There will be many more black stars at Langley.
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santa01 year, 6 months ago
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the supreme court did not grant them the right to open trials. they are closed civil courts. they present the evidence to a judge in the hopes of proving that they are not who are they accused of being. that judge decides. then they go back to military court.
how will the names of CIA agents get public?
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tkyrchncs1 year, 6 months ago
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It makes no difference how many people you are accused of killing or whose buildings you are accused of having blown up or whose car you drove or to whom you are accused of talking on the phone. You have rights because you are a HUMAN, and you have them guaranteed by our Constitution. If a secret operative accuses them using secret evidence in a secret court on foreign soil and then they are held indefinitely without trial and are tortured, then what in the world do you think is protecting YOU? Get with it! It is not just our job to protect these rights for ourselves, but to extend them--universally, if possible.
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santa01 year, 6 months ago
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exactly... and that is the point. most of these people in guatanamo bay are not only, not convicted... but not ACCUSED! they have been held in extradition now for 6 years with out even the ACCUSATION of a crime. I personally put my faith in the rule of law that guilty persons may appeal for a little while but they will serve their time and punishment in the end, but the effects of detaining and punishing innocent people are so damning and catastrophic that they can already be seen in increased terrorist recruitment, dwindling world support, and negetive standing in the world. We are, more than anything, fighting a war in which we must convince people that our way of life is better than they're way of life. respecting them as if they were a member of our way of life is the ONLY way to turn the corner on this fight.
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BB641 year, 6 months ago
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Perhaps you should get to know some of the guards that actually work there when they return home. I'm a volunteer at our local VA and it's interesting listening to them. Most understand the prisoners there are military trained and very dangerous. Again, our justice system doesn't make room for dealing with people like this. The reading of rights is rather difficult when the person is captured with IED's or AK47's. Most were taken during combat or covert captures. This isn't a case of the police forgetting to submit a search warrant. I think you're very naive if you think their release will serve the greater good of all. I think you're releasing people who will return. I hope you can live with another 9-11 or worse, I know I won't sleep better with them out.
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santa01 year, 6 months ago
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Well, first of all. I'm not in favor of their release... you seem to be arguing a moot point. I'm in favor of their trial. If they can't be convicted of a crime then they shouldn't be there to begin with.
Also your arguemtns about reading rights and search warrants is extremely off topic. I imagine you include it to suggest that guilty people may be let go on technicalities, however search warrants and miranda rights are things that are consitutionally upholdable for those captured under police actions within the US. They dont apply to POW's. which is what these people are. We are at war. they are prisoners of that war. you don't read POW's miranda rights. you can research Miranda V. AZ if you don't believe me.
your understanding of US law and how it applies to Citizens, non-citizens, and prisoners of War seems convoluted and understandably confusing. You should research it a little better so that the media and politicians can't scare you as easily.
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bubba21 year, 6 months ago
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MOST detainees were NOT "pulled from the battlefield". They were 'turned in' by there fellow countrymen who "claimed" they were suspected "terrorists" so that those fellow countrymen could collect the reward offered by the U.S. for turning in "suspected terrorists".
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/gitmo3.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200602u/nj_taylo...
This ruling has nothing to do with any sort of limitations on what troops can do on the battlefield.
Anyone that is "arrested" or "detained" should be released if there is no evidence - or not enough evidence - to charge them or to take them to trial. THAT is how our laws and our democracy works.
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bubba21 year, 6 months ago
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This has NOTHING to do with "another 9/11". NOTHING. Those people have been held for SIX years and never charged with ANYTHING. Only NOW are any of them getting ANY sort of 'trial' or 'hearing'. The likelihood that ANY of them would commit any sort of 'terrorist' acts after being released is pretty remote.
In fact, the ONLY reason that any of them might resort to any terrorism is because they have been detained and sequestered and isolated for six years for no justifiable reason. That is a BLACK EYE on our country as a whole and is seen as unjust by many other countries.
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bubba21 year, 6 months ago
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NO one is "guilty" until that guilt is PROVEN.
The Gitmo 'detainees' have not even had a trial yet - that is just getting started.
Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
If there is so much evidence to PROVE that any or all of the detainees are guilt of anything, why has it taken SIX years to get any of them to trial, and why are the trials so secret and why are the detainees not allowed any BASIC rights of due process?
Justice should be fairly and thoroughly served, REGARDLESS of who the accused is. If we, as a nation, cannot uphold our OWN principles, we are no longer a democracy.
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