Bush's top general quashed torture dissent »
Posted By Wil 1 year, 6 months ago in NewsThe former Air Force general and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, helped quash dissent from across the U.S. military as the Bush administration first set up a brutal interrogation regime for terrorism suspects, according to newly public documents and testimony from an ongoing Senate probe.
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Wil
I was a Propeller Scout, and I ran the Geeks Group. AOL sent me to the land of Wind and Ghosts, though, so I don ...
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sir_samurai1 year, 6 months ago
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Sounds like this was just about the way Hitler pulled it off; A "chairman", top ranking SS or Gestapo officer, or more, helping to "quash dissent from across the [Nazi] military" (to say "in this case" its OK to round-up and torture) and on down through the brown-shirts of his brain-washed Reich-wing supporters to the rest of the German population, and of course, fueled by FEAR mongering!
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MajJohn1 year, 6 months ago
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If you are intellectually honest you'd have to admit in all the similarities there are vast differences. These prisoners were not starved and forced to labor, have their fillings removed and their skin made into lampshades.
What I'm saying is that there are different degrees in being wrong and your generalization is off the mark.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 6 months ago
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I have had trouble believing that JAG officers supported these illegal and inhumane policies, and now we see they did not, but official blame will not go even as high as Myers. I am equally surprised that no soldiers have come to light who refused to carry out these tortures.
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sir_samurai1 year, 6 months ago
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MajJohn1 year, 6 months ago
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There is no doubt that Rumsfield created an atmosphere which allowed harsh interrogation techniques. His goal?? In his mind he was fighting the terrorists on their own ground. General instructions were to use derogation, fear and humiliation to gain intelligence, the troops in the field dreamed up on their own, as they tried to outdo each other, the nudity, doggie tricks, etc. This explains why they did not come forward. They would have implicated themselves. So, Rummy did not sign off on a manual which said to call the prisoners homos, but he encouraged humiliation as an interrogation technique. And admittedly, some things were over the line. Good information and another example where this administration was ill prepared to fight this type of war. From what I've read, with Rummy gone, we've now gone to the other extreme and are treating the prisoners with kid gloves. We still don't know what we're doing.
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MajJohn1 year, 5 months ago
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I really took it in the chops with my maverick description. I agree w/ Meso that the right wing is holding their noses exactly for that reason. They don't want someone who is willing to cross party lines and work with the other side of the isle. They are demigods who want strict adherence to an extreme philosophy much like the left.
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NeoCon1 year, 6 months ago
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So What!!! As long as American's and America is safe torture them. They are not Americans!!! They want to kill us and destroy our country. If we have to torture these nuts to get information out of them to bad.
And really is stripping them nude, stressing them out and dunking their head in water really torture. What do you think they would do to you if they captured you.
Grow up and grow a pair!
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silvera1 year, 6 months ago
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We executed the Japanese in WWII for doing essentially the same thing to our soldiers. We've now become a nation that condones this same kind of behavior and spawns babblers like yourself. What mean spirited idiocy! People like you make me ashamed to call myself an American.
The detainees at Guantanamo and elsewhere have not been convicted of a crime; they are suspects and deserve their day in court just like in any civilized country. Do I feel this kind of barbarism has made us safer? Hell no! All it's done is to provide a recruiting tool for more terrorists and make us the pariah of the planet.
You sound like a real tough guy, NeoCon, why don't you get your butt over there and do whatever big talking tough guys do. Talk the talk...
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disraeli1 year, 6 months ago
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NeoCon
Your comment in support of torture is appalling.
"They are not Americans" How does this make it okay to torture someone? Those are human rights being abused and human rights are not restricted to Americans.
"To get information" It is unlikely that torture will produce any useful or usable information. The tortured will tell the torturer whatever they need to in order to make the torture stop.
"Grow a pair" Your definition of manhood is lacking in maturity.
Torture is savage and barbaric. Those that engage in it and those that support it are similarly savage and barbaric.
I don't know what happened to the country of my birth. I woke up one morning and it was in the hands of torturers.
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TheNewsseeker1 year, 6 months ago
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In Germany, there is also a discussion about in which cases torture might be a suitable means to get necessary information. There was a spectacular case of kidnapping and the police was of the opinion that the boy in question might still be alive. Because the deliquent continued keeping silent, one inspector did not see any other possibility than to annunciate to him a painful questioning if he refused talking any longer. Now, the European Court for Human Rights is occupied with the case. This seems to be exactly the ethic borderline, when it comes to save human lives. But the price is high to pull it down.
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Sabretooth1 year, 6 months ago
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"Our methods don't hold a candle to theirs."
M.O.A.B., depleted uranium, nukes, microwaves, lasers, cruise missiles, extraordinary renditions, torture... i beg to differ Simon, you are much too modest.
One quick question if you will...when was the last time a middle eastern country had occupied the US and forced a new government on you...there have been so many i cannot keep track.
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simonsez1 year, 6 months ago
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Also threatening civilian lives as apposed to harboring military information in normal wartime.
The tactics of the terrorists are inhumane, crashing commercial airplanes into buildings killing thousands of civilians , decapitating civilians in the most brutal of ways, crushing fingers and toes, electric shock, etc., not for information, but for publicity for their cause.
Our methods don't hold a candle to theirs.
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user
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CHAM1 year, 6 months ago
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What I haven't seen discussed in this thread yet is the possiblilty that a percentage of those tortured might not have any knowledge whatsoever about the subject information that they are being tortured to get.
And Neo-Con I guess I'll never see the day when proponents of torture stop questioning whether things like stripping, stressing, and dunking are really torture.
Since a Senate hearing last December ( that I've alluded to before ) demonstrated that 93% of the detainees at Gitmo were not enemy combatants, but were Neo-Conned, would by exterpolation, it be factual to say that 93% of those tortured didn't have information to give up?
And to the NeoCon second part, whether it really is torture or not, I wonder how many detainees have died from this Non-Torture? I did some research and found over 100 documented deaths from this Non-Torture ( Neo-Conned ). Got any idea why they died? Just couldn't live over being called a Homo maybe?
Get Real.
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nikkibabe1 year, 6 months ago
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Why not relocate Israelis to Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, Virgin Islands etc., etc., so they are not concentrated in one place. At least they can live in peace.
This way, we can leave Iraq for ever and let Middle East be Middle East for whatever Arabs are worth.
I wonder why no one has thought about this. It may cost few $trillion but in the long run, it will pay off.
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DropkickaLib1 year, 6 months ago
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joeblowe1 year, 6 months ago
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You have made the careless assumption that they are WILLING to relocate. They seem to have developed an attachment to the area where they now are. Hell, they emmigrate there by the thousands - I can't possibly guess WHY. Some idiotic religious reason I suppose. (oops, that's redundant)
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silvera1 year, 6 months ago
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Because of our brutal occupation and our unapologetic torture policies there are a lot more of your American hating Muslims than there used to be. I get the impression from your posting that it's OK with you if we torture any Muslim that we feel like and that this tactic has made us safer. I don't think so, and other than anecdotal blather from the talking heads there doesn't seem to any evidence to back this up.
Obviously, this conversation isn't going to change anyone's mind. You look like a young, cool dude so I will pose the question to you once again: why don't you enlist and show your conviction the war you so enthusiastically support?
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DropkickaLib1 year, 6 months ago
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joeblowe1 year, 6 months ago
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At some point - hopefully soon - perhaps some of those people who are RESPONSIBLE for tarnishing the good name of the United States will be held accountable for their crimes. This whole disgusting episode is the result of FEAR! GWB and RUMMY must be frightened little cowards to put forth the proposition - and then act on it - that it is appropriate and acceptable to reduce the United States to the philosophical level of rats living in caves in a desert. What happened to "Land of the free and home of the brave?" If the response of our elected officials is to be used as a guide, we are now the "Land of the somewhat politically oppressed and home of the sniveling cowards." I recently watched "Charlie Wilson's War" and was disturbed by the contrast between the truly brave Afghans who were willing - more like ANXIOUS - to go out and fight the Russians even though they were HORRIBLY outgunned and outnumbered, and our own response to one single attack.
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joeblowe1 year, 6 months ago
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Should we have just accepted the loss and said "Oh well, it's only 3000 or so lost."? No, of course not. I also don't think it was correct to undo decades of being the moral leader by making torture of ANY kind OFFICIALLY sanctioned. The same cowardice was responsible (I presume in lieu of any other reasonable explanation) for the way we were deceived into a war, and then an unending, ongoing conflict in Iraq. Maybe it's a little to soon to say for certain what the final verdict of history will be on this, but from the floor seats, it doesn't look much like we as a nation took the high road here. We could EASILY have bombed the crap out of the Taliban AND Iraq and clearly demonstrated the likely result of an attack on the U.S. WITHOUT resorting to garbage like the "Patriot" Act and torture of SUSPECTS. And that's another one of the problems. After a non-uniformed person is taken OFF the battlefield, we here in the public simple can't tell if he's REALLY a bad guy.
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