Comments for Former Sen. Jesse Helms Dies At 86 »
Posted By TechnologyExpert 1 year, 6 months ago in NewsJesse Helms, the five-term Republican Senator from North Carolina, has died, CBS News has confirmed. He was 86.
Read Full Story at cbsnews.com »
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HanymanComment removed: Retracted by user83 Replies
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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A demagogue, a force of reaction, virulent homophobe who fought tooth-and-nail against Federal aid for AIDS research...
....racist par excellence, of course (recall his campaign ad launched during his 1990 reelection bid against black opponent Harvey Grant, in which white hands belonging to a job-seeker crumpled a rejection slip as the voice-over explained that the position had gone to an "unqualified member of a minority")....
One almost hopes that hell exists just so Mr. Helms can be housed there--for a very, very long time....
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splitrch1 year, 6 months ago
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If Jesse Helms knew of this, supported it or just turned a blind eye, he should roast in hell.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/06202008/prof...
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vor1 year, 6 months ago
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I knew Jesse growing up. He sometimes attended our church and his daughter taught my sister's 1st grade class. Every night, ironically before Walter Cronkite came on, we would see Jesse's editorial on WRAL in Raleigh. I knew then that I felt a certain distaste for his views. He was arrogant and condescending. Not physical imposing but more like a Southern Baptist fire and brimstone preacher shouting out his condemnation. A bully without the brawn. Hard to relate that to the quiet little man who would sometimes bring us candy at school.
But I knew, even back then, that these would not become my views. He would rant and rave in favor of Nixon and the war and it all seemed quite backward to me. He was no compromise, like Bush and Cheney with his black/white view of the world. And he sure didn't like the black. I remember him as the first political fear monger I recall.
I wont overly condemn him today. I don't mess with the dead (don't like the karmic implications).
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UnusualSuspect1 year, 6 months ago
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Unlike VOR, I didn't know Jesse Helms. I grew up hearing about him; on TV, on radio, and in print.
The one thing I remember most about him was his seemly strong intolerance of blacks and other minorities.
Then I discovered this 20 mins. ago, taken from Wikipedia, regarding Helms support of a man running for office:
" 'In 1950, Helms became an unofficial researcher for United States Senate candidate Willis Smith. Smith was a conservative Democratic lawyer and former president of the American Bar Association. While working on the primary campaign against Frank Porter Graham, Helms helped create an ad that read, "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races.' "
How much of the ad did he create? We don't know, but that's the man I will remember...one who instilled fear, only because others around him had a different color skin.
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ZippySpincycle1 year, 6 months ago
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You're confusing Helms with another never-reformed segregationist senator, Strom Thurmond. An easy enough mistake to make, considering their politics, but Thurmond was the father of Essie Mae Washington-Williams. Thurmond, who was 22 at the time, had an affair with the a 16-year-old maid who worked for his family. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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You feel, libs, that one should be...more equivocal about the character and career of Helms?
You feel that people should be more TEMPERATE in their assessment of the man?
Mention his "good" points. Not neglect to note his "virtues?"
So much so that you neg comments of those who refuse to follow the kind of evenhandedness of which you yourself set such a famous example?
How bad does a person have to be before you come off your partisan perch and agree to see clearly for the sake of truth?
Or is scoring points against the dreaded opposition ALWAYS more important to you than being moral and...CLEAR?
It's YOU, libs, who are consumed by hate.
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KazamaSmokers1 year, 6 months ago
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Has anyone on this thread/blog/site, ever talked smack about people that live in JHs state? You know the cool little tidbits many love to spew about people merely because they were born in the south? Is that bigotry? Is it worthy of damnation? Hs anyone here stood by silently when an off-color joke was said about Women, gays, minorities, people that live in a different region of the country or a certain religion? Has any slanderous/bigoted/racist utterance come out of your mouths? Has anyone here ever wished ILL will towards others?
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"Has anyone on this thread/blog/site, ever talked smack about people that live in JHs state? You know the cool little tidbits many love to spew about people merely because they were born in the south?"
--And how many times per day do you express an opinion you don't truly believe? Just because someone says something mean about a person or a group doesn't make it bigotry. You're confusing bigotry with stereotyping. If I said all people from NC are religious zealots, who drive pickup trucks and watch NASCAR all day long, that's not very nice but it's not bigotry. If, on the other hand, I said evangelicals were all really devil worshippers in disguise, and I firmly believed this even when I was given proof that I was wrong, that would make me a bigot.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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LOL now after you've lied and I've shown you that the only thing you have is yeah but but!
Ok Messo I guess I have to splain it to you. Stereotyping is an extension of bigotry. I had a guy in Louisiana tell me that "We know that ALL blacks eat fried chicken and watermelon" Now tell me that stereotyping isn't an extension of bigotry?
I've seen posts on here that says all people that live in the south are Southern Evangelistic that hate all black folks, gays, yet they live in trailers and have sex with their children and pets. Yeah that's even beyond the stupidity of mere bigotry.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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Byrd and Helms are brothers of different mothers. Byrd was even high in the hate organization. Byrd even had the audacity to say the N word over and over on national TV. But no! Byrd belongs in the DEMOCRATIC party and that makes him your guy and aOK, but that dang hate filled Republican deserves to roast in Hell. Yeah Messo I can see how logical that sounds.
You feel that Kennedy and Helms are on the same level? You think Helms should burn in hell because he doesn't like someone because of the color of their skin (that makes him an idiot but no worthy to burn in hell),,, yet since Edward Kennedy is in the party that say it's for equal rights for minorities that belong to 'only' their club, you want to give the man a pass for leaving a lady to drown, because it would end his political career. That would make anything he's done in the name of that just and noble cause a farce.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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They probably were brothers of different mothers, as you say. But there is one very important difference:
Byrd repented (at least, he has said he has)
Helms was unrepentant to the end. He embraced his evilness and gloried in it.
You can't change the facts, Slate, or the consequences.
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jordan111 year, 6 months ago
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nostalgia1 year, 6 months ago
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jordan111 year, 6 months ago
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"Explain to me why there were Blacks on Helm's staff if he was a bigot?"
--OMFG- not *this* sad, primitive, someofmybestfriendsare, horsesh*t logic and reasoning again! Cons, it's the 21st Century. When will you people get a clue?!
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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"Did Kennedy harm the freedoms of countless people?"
At the end of the Viet Nam conflict part of pulling out was a promise that we would give money to help South Viet Nam obtain arms and ammunition to defend themselves. Kennedy led the fight that killed that bill. North Viet Nam who had vowed to leave South Viet Nam alone saw that and invaded it and Cambodia. Thus the killing fields and hundreds of thousands in Concentration camps.
That is part of the Kennedy legacy. Millions dead and hundreds of thousands in concentration camps. And you libs ignore that and want a repeat now.
What Kennedy did was so much worse than what Helms did there is no comparison.
Hypocrites.
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"That is part of the Kennedy legacy. Millions dead and hundreds of thousands in concentration camps. And you libs ignore that and want a repeat now."
--Funny how you conveniently gloss over the behavior of the man who illegally invaded a country that didn't attack us, killed a million of its people and turned several million more into refugees (not to mention killing several thousand Americans and Allied Forces personnel in the process). And, if memory serves me, cons responded by rewarding the butcher in the White House with a second term in office. Moreover, even though you claim to be afraid that liberals "want a repeat now," there are more cons cheerleading from the sidelines than serving in Iraq (even while we scrape the bottom of the barrel for recruits). If cons are so compassionate and feel so much concern for Iraqis, why are we bribing felons and non-US citizens to fight? How do you account for that, Endo?
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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And you ignore that the world knew there were WMD there and now you call him a liar when he said what Clinton said. Hypocrites!
So now our troops are felons and non citizens. We had a large reenlistment on the fourth and I guess you think our troops are just killing and raping all over the place. Your calling the president a butcher is just the kind of warped thinking that can be expected from those who hate our country so much.
Why do you hate it?
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"And you ignore that the world knew there were WMD there and now you call him a liar when he said what Clinton said. Hypocrites!"
--I don't give a CRAP what "the world knew." Bush is the President and the buck stops with him (when you cons want it to, that is). The rest of your ridiculous and incoherent post does not deserve a response. You're not serving. Your family's not serving. You're not sacrificing SQUAT. That's the facts, jack. When you are willing to put your life and the lives of all your friends and family on the line for the people of Iraq then let me know. Until then, you're just another sad con chickenhawk who loves to cheerlead while OTHER people sacrifice and die. You're just a chickenhawk, Endo. That's all...
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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You feel, libs, that one should be...more equivocal about the character and career of Helms?
You feel that people should be more TEMPERATE in their assessment of the man?
Mention his "good" points. Not neglect to note his "virtues?"
What would be wrong with just saying that you didn't agree with the way the man lived his life and or his politics; but restrain yourself from saying he deserves to burn in DA EVALASTIN Lakes of Hell?
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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Slate said:
"I have rules that I live by or my own personal Karma.
* Don't wish evil to befall others. If sickness befalls them, remember that they are mere humans and know what fear and suffering is and deserve compassion.
* Don't speak ill of the dead, especially if only because you disagree with their political or religious views. Nothing is more classless than talking ill of the recently dead.
* Don't talk crap about old people, life is short and you too will be considered very old in a twinkling of an eye.
* Respect people who've actually stayed around long enough to be considered old, many die young and never have the time to glean the wisdom that can only be derived from a long life and living it to the fullest."
Slate omitted the following escape clause: *unless someone says it about my party first or it's McCain and the issue is illegal immigration*
http://news.propeller.com/story/2008/05/20/ted-...
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Slate omitted the following escape clause: *unless someone says it about my party first or it's McCain and the issue is illegal immigration*
You really are a putz!
Thanks for taking the time to post my real houghts on the topic,,,, that was one of the best and most heart felt posts I've made on this site,,,, and somehow you thought you'd 'add a lil of your own words to the end?'
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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There's nothing wrong with saying that, if that's how you feel. On the other hand, it's nothing wrong with saying the other either, especially if it's how you really feel. Otherwise, you are being a liar and a hypocrite.
Repressed resentment will only build and eventually explode or implode. Get it? Repeat after me: Yes I can!
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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Then why the repressed resntment all the time Cush? You resent things going on in my country, resent the man that was elected by the peo0ple,,, resent the fact that someone else has a differnt view of God than you do,,, Me thinks the denial lays at your feet
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"So I guess from what we see from the liberals and their comments about fromer Senator Helms,their icons are now fair game?"
--"Now"? LMAO...Um, yeah, since everyone knows that heretofore, cons have exercised restraint all these years. Open the floodgates. Let us know how you really feel, bill. For instance, I always wondered what cons really thought of the Kennedys, the Clintons, Barney Frank and Gerry Studds. No more keeping your feelings close to the vest, bill. Let us have it. ;-)
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Mdiar1 year, 6 months ago
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I found his politics to be distasteful. Still, he would stick to his principles, as much as I disliked them. Maybe Washington could use more people who aren't afraid to inconvenience their own party for principles, as much as I may not agree with them. Overall, I must say, I would have never voted for him. I did not even truly respect him. But I think that Washington needs more people who will try to do what they say and won't mince words.
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nostalgia1 year, 6 months ago
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Mdiar
You are totally correct
Whether I agree or disagree with any particular politician, I respect them if they have a set of principles that guide them on all of their policy positions
Unfortunately there are far too many in politics today who will say whatever it takes to get elected and seem to have no guiding principles
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"Whether I agree or disagree with any particular politician, I respect them if they have a set of principles that guide them on all of their policy positions"
--Really? Because you and most of the con community didn't think a whole lot of John McCain's principle's last year when he was for "amnesty", nostalgia. You wanted to see him drawn and quartered much the same way liberals would like to see Joe Lieberman kicked out of the country for supporting Bush's illegal war. The difference is, a year later I still despise Lieberman and I wouldn't vote for him today if he was somehow the Democratic nominee even if HELMS was the GOP's candidate. I think we know how quickly your principles flipflop, don't we?
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nostalgia1 year, 6 months ago
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Frankly Mesodude I still don't think much of John McCain and won't be voting for him
But then you have a bad habit of "remembering" what you want to remember. If it doesn't fit the sterrotype you have in your mind, it's forgotten immediately
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Mdiar1 year, 6 months ago
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Principles. Values. They were not the ones you have. They were not the ones I have. His values involved keeping a race down, keeping those of different sexual orientation down and many other disgusting things. Did he ever compromise on them? No. Therefore, he stuck to his principles. Even though I despised them, personally. As far as I know he did not sell out to the lobbyists. A foolish man. Probably an evil man (though I have no authority to judge this). A man I have no particular fondness for. But he did not sell out to my knowledge.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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I suppose it depends on what the word "principled" means to you. To me, it means adherence to a code of righteous conduct; having and living by an unwavering sense of fairness and justice; moral character. Imho, Jesse Helms was the polar opposite of all those things.
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"b interesting to see what all you "caring classy libs" have to say when Sen Robert Byrd kicks the bucket."
--You remind me how cons screech that they are oppressed and outraged by "racism" when what they really mean is that they are p'od because of a perceived double standard. They are "victimized" by Obama's pastor but only because they think Don Imus got a raw deal. Sad
Why would you care? Really. What's it to you? Was Helms your hero or someone you looked up to? Why do cons believe their individual moral code should be shaped by those with whom they disagree? Do have any idea how sick you sound? Why not treat people the way you know in your heart is the right way rather always plotting to retailiate based on your perception that someone else is getting away with something? If you're not being hurt, why not do what *you* know is the right thing to do?
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lum-chate1 year, 6 months ago
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You all remind me of a disk jokey in Florida who ask all Florida residents to not use their electrical appliances on the day they electrocuted Bundy so he could be deep fried. Venomous!
Helms was a product of his roots, was elected many times by his peers & died on the same day that two other noted Americans died Jefferson and Adams. Though not a fan of Helms he'll be lamented more than anyone shredding him here.
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nostalgia1 year, 6 months ago
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And I believe you made this statement on the Kennedy thread to criticize someone who was expressing dislike for Kennedy
"Blasphemy. You are commanded by your Savior to LOVE. If this is an example of how you think Christians should speak or write you do not know what a Christian is."
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tkyrchncs1 year, 6 months ago
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Indeed I did. Her Christianity was as faulty as your judgement. While it is vulgar to speak ill of the dead, you are not spared. I too think Helms stood up for his beliefs, and was uncompromising, and therefore called him "honorable foe" in another post. But for Heaven's sake, the other candidate would have had to have been the Devil for him to have gotten a vote from me.
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nostalgia1 year, 6 months ago
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Might surprise you but I wouldn't have voted for Helms either
But he is a dying breed in DC
How many state plainly what they really believe anymore?
How many are grounded in their principles - right or wrong?
All we have are pandering politicians who say one thing to get elected then do the exact opposite when they win
Prime examples - the 2 people currently running for president
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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--hehehe...I love the way you tepidly distance yourself from Helms in one post (almost as if you're terrified of betraying the GOP by acknowledging he was a hateful bigot):
" Though not a fan of Helms he'll be lamented more than anyone shredding him here."
--and then you turn around a moment later and show the real you:
"If I lived in NC in the 90's I probably would have voted for Helms rather than the libs that ran against him."
You couldn't even wait til you got to another story to demonstrate that you'll lie and claim to be principled as fast as the wind changes direction. LOL
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vidman041 year, 6 months ago
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aceofspades11 year, 6 months ago
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...they have no souls
vidman - it's the people who built their careers on hate, as did Helms who have no souls, nor humanity - because a piece of human debris dies I do not have to mourn them, but rather rejoice in one less hater to walk the earth
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lum-chate1 year, 6 months ago
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When you talk about pieces of human debris why not start with
Robert Mugabe who was so wrongfully characterized, by the Carter administration and probably one of your favorites Andrew Young;
Ambassador Young could barely contain his brimming admiration for the newest "liberator" of Africa's oppressed: "I find that I am fascinated by his intelligence, by his dedication. The only thing that frustrates me about Robert Mugabe is that he is so damned incorruptible."
More than 90% of the looney left on propeller would have given Young a positive if the interview was posted on this blog.
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aceofspades11 year, 6 months ago
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lum - my condemnation of Helms in no way is meant to endorse tyrants of any color such as Mugabe, nor the naive comments of those such as Young. Bu8t no matter how many examples of others' misdeeds you might list,it does not detract from the fact that Helms' career was built on hate & fear.
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vidman041 year, 6 months ago
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"vidman - it's the people who built their careers on hate, as did Helms who have no souls, nor humanity - because a piece of human debris dies I do not have to mourn them, but rather rejoice in one less hater to walk the earth"
So you have to become a hater also? I'm from N.C., but I never voted for him, never agreed with most of his positions, but that doesn't mean I have to speak ill of him when he is dead, doesn't mean I must become like him, does it?
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VonDau1 year, 6 months ago
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Thank you Jesse for all you did to get Ronald Wilson Reagan noticed in 1976. Due to your influence Reagan went on to become our greatest President since Thomas Jefferson.
God rest your soul. Peace be with your family. You were a good man. We will miss you.
Jaeger VonDau
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ZippySpincycle1 year, 6 months ago
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And let's not forget this nugget of insight from that Great American, Jesse Helms:
"To rob the Negro of his reputation of thinking through a problem in his own fashion is about the same as trying to pretend that he doesn't have a natural instinct for rhythm and for singing and dancing." -- Helms responding in 1956 to criticism that a fictional black character in his newspaper column was offensive. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5glajfJbQP2Wm...
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Natureboy1 year, 6 months ago
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Everybody dies, folks. Good and bad, innocent and rat-bastards, serial-killers and saints.
The big question, maybe the only question, is whether you and I are living in such a fashion that our passing will be mourned by many.
Remember, we do not choose the time of our passing, and an opportunity we miss is one we may never get back.
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jordan111 year, 5 months ago
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http://www.soak.com/topic/honorableliving/artic... to define honor
I guess it depends on one's definition of "honorable."
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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I agree, Jordan11. That's the same thing is said to Mdjar a few posts earlier concerning the word "principle." It really does depend on one's definition of these terms. I tend to associate words like "honor" and "principle" with good and positive behavior, never with negative and evil acts.
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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It might be a wise idea, vid, if you ditched the sentimental pieties about not talking ill of the dead--who, after all, are past caring about what you or anyone else thinks of them, past any need to defend themselves--and got real about who Helms WAS and the evil, actual evil, he did.
Are you so blinded by partisanship that it's impossible for you to understand that the only fitting--the only MORAL--response to a life such as Helms led, whether he be alive or dead, is denigration?
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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When I heard this news today, the first thing I thought of was this Thread, which I knew would come. I thought, would the left have learned how the right came in and was for the most part kind to Kennedy when he had his moment and later found out that he had a tumor? No, the left is the left and is very unchanging when it comes to the death or injury of someone on the right. Hell has a new member, the world is better with another right winger.
You guys are as disgusting as you are predictable., but it's always "Different" when it comes to the left huh?
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Point to the dead woman Helms left to drown to save his sorry azz? I came in and said nice things about Kennedy when they found his cancer. I said at that time, that when the time came and the left was going to be counted on to blast the next right winger as we could count on that, that was the time to bring up Teddy now I am.
I so seems funny that you think Ted is a Victim after he left that girl to drown but feel it quite appropriate for people to say the things they do about Helms.
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"You can be assured that when any major Lefties die, I will jump on anyone that acts out about their death as well."
--And why did you think you needed to warn us of that, slate? LOL...We know you. Do you honestly think we haven't seen enough of your hateful rhetoric to know it'd be a miracle if that *wasn't* your response? You don't think given that you're so obviously more bent out of shape over the fact that it's liberals making these comments (rather than a sincere belief that the behavior you condemn is offensive) is telling enough? You're so busy hating liberals that you can't even be bothered to engage anyone here on the matter of why they feel as strongly as they do about such a polarizing figure. You don't care that people are "acting out" on someone's death. You're p1ssed that it's liberals saying bad things about a member (who cares how despicable he is, right?) of your "team." See...Told you I know you, slate. ;-P
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Messo, I've said that I didn't like what the man stood for, how is that hateful? I'd sggest you push your obvious hatred of me aside and actually read and try to understand what I'm saying. I don't talk ill of those on the left that die or that we find out are ill, but you do talk smack about anyone on the right that are. You tell me, which approach has the most merit?
The only thing that has to do with right/left to me is the fact that for the most part (their are bad on the right as well) the right tends to be more 'respectful' when these hings happen. If you'd just compare my (and the majority of those on the right) way of talking about Kennedy a few months ago and you and (the majority of those from the left about Helmes)you'll see what I'm talking about.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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When Kennedy dies I will not talk smack about him and will tell those that do the same thing,,,, and YES I will remind YOU about this thread when you get mad at the few on the right that will. And in that moment of tiem I will be with you telling them not to, as well as reminding you about today.
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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Kennedy
You are right about no comparison. What Kennedy did was so much worse.
How about the killing fields and concentration camps that he caused by killing money promised to South Viet Nam. Millions dead and hundreds of thousands in Concentration camps.
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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The fact that you withheld your dripping venom (and in fact, many of you DIDN'T) briefly when Ted Kennedy was diagnosed, is not indicative of anything more than a pause to get a second wind!
You all know very well that people are FED UP with you; so you had better exercise some sense of prudence when it comes to an icon like Ted Kennedy falling ill! But let's be honest: Many among you were and are rejoicing and salivating at the prospect that his end may be near.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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Gee, not one thought about: How sad that he has gone from the scene without ever having said I'm sorry for the things did that were wrong, mean, hurtful and despicable to so many people. How sad that he left here with such a recalcitrant spirit! May God have mercy on his soul.
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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catstevensComment removed: Retracted by user2 Replies
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"Kennedy let a woman die, there is nothing more evil,,, even with that I didn't blast him, I wished him well,,,, yeah there is a difference in the approach."
--Well, Bush SLAUGHTERED a million Iraqis and wingjobs re-elected him so you can repeat that "kennedy let a woman die" until you faint from exhaustion, slate. You're a hypocrite who supports a Presidential nominee who a year ago you probably wanted to see dead (for his views on immigration) so all your crying is for naught. I don't believe you care about principles. You care that the "libs" you hate are saying mean things about your beloved GOP. You so transparent. LOL
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Natureboy1 year, 6 months ago
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"Kennedy let a woman die, there is nothing more evil"
No?
Howzabout advocating for an unprovoked military invasion which ends up costing the lives of hundreds of thousands? Or advocating for the continued oppression of millions of dark-skinned people whose forefathers were brought to this country as slaves?
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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"Well, Bush SLAUGHTERED a million Iraqis and wingjobs re-elected him so you can repeat that "kennedy let a woman die" until you faint from exhaustion, slate. You're a hypocrite who supports a Presidential nominee who a year ago you probably wanted to see dead (for his views on immigration) so all your crying is for naught. I don't believe you care about principles. You care that the "libs" you hate are saying mean things about your beloved GOP. You so transparent. LOL"
You are one sick pup, I wanted Bush dead because he didn't close the boarder says you? You talk about 'priciples' as you sit and type out an out and out lie? LOL
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Howzabout advocating for an unprovoked military invasion which ends up costing the lives of hundreds of thousands? Or advocating for the continued oppression of millions of dark-skinned people whose forefathers were brought to this country as slaves?
Tell that to the 'oppressed' man that will most likely be president in January, Nature Guy.
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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Not a single one of you was present when the incident at Chappaquidick took place! You don't know a dam@ thing about what happened, but you have all drawn your own conclusions and keep trotting them out as irrefutable fact!
You protest people passing judgment on a known evil quantity, while enthusiastically passing it on someone that you only THINK is guilty of something because it's what you WANT to believe.
I have NO PATIENCE with your crap!
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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But you had time to respond?
The 'incident' is on record, Kennedy was a coward that did nothing to help a woamn that died because he was too stupid to not drive while drunk. He used his name to get out of it.
BTW, you weren't there when Bush decided to go into Iraq and you don't know a damn thing about what happened and you only THINK is guilty of something because it's what you WANT to believe.
Sounds about right?
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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The incident is on record, your spin on it is not...that is your opinion and ONLY your opinion. Are you saying you were there? If not, you can't state anything as fact.
You must be insane for true! THE ENTIRE WORLD is witnessing what is going on in Iraq...where have you been? In a coma?? Bush himself has admitted he went on faulty and cherry picked intelligence. Am I not to believe words from the horse's ass...er...mouth??
Furthermore, even by that faulty logic of yours, YOU weren't there either, but you ACT like you were! One thing is for sure, I state my opinions as OPINIONS. You ought to try it some time, you might get more respect.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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LOL but it's true about Bush because you were there?
Bush's realizing that the intel may have been flawed is far differnt than what you pose,,,,, you pose that he lied about it all and that he did so for profit,,,, come on Cush you have to be a bit sharper than that,,, my opinion
Am I not to believe words from the horse's ass...er...mouth??
Don't call my president a Horse's ass,,, go talk badly about your own knuckle heads
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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I will call him whatever I want to call him. He gets 0 respect from me. He's a murderer and a war for profits kind of guy...every bit as bad as Saddam and any other two-bit dictator. Actually worse, because he pretends to be better!
He disgusts me and so does your support for him.
Don't ever think that I'm not going to say exactly what I feel, with or without approval from you.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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You are Obligated? Would you feel the same if it was someone that was part of a group or movement that you agree with?
No, I have no obligation to blast anyone nor do you,,,, I didn't like Helms, he was a nasty man,,,,, I don't like Kennedy or Byrd not many left leaning politicians but I won't be talking trash about them when they die. It serves no value to come in and 'BLAST' someone when they are newly dead, other than one's personal need to make them feel better and or part of the crowd to join in the Hallelujah Chorus of Ding Dong the Witch is Dead.
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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Imho, our moral obligation is not to withhold the truth when we speak, but to speak it without hesitation and reservation. "Truth crushed to earth will rise again!"
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free!"
I have yet to find anything in the Bible that says we should lie when an evil person dies, saying things like: Oh, what a shame; he wasn't that bad! God rest his soul."
God gave Jesse Helms 86 years to get his act together.
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CrusaderRabbit1 year, 6 months ago
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To his family my condolences, hopefully Jesse can finally rest next to his contemporaries by the fires of hell. I didn't hate the man but I despised his racist actions and views. His blind support of Nixon and Regan were unconscionable. I hope that no others of his ilk rise to high office. His kind are an example of what is wrong with this country.
Hopefully in the near future we can move past the racial and social bigotry in our history.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Racial hate is worthy of burning in the pits of hell is it? We won't even talk about whether there is a hell or not. I'd think wishing someone to burn for a few trillion years is much more hateful than not liking someone because of their race. I'd think God would be the one to decide his and your faith, I'd not be messing with Karma, God is taking notes ya know.
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mesodude1 year, 6 months ago
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"Funny, the same people on here werent nearly as venimous when Saddam Hussein was executed."
--I can't speak for others here but I was just in disbelief that Bush wasn't up there on the platform right next to Saddam when the lever was pulled. ;-(
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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Perhaps it's because some of us saw that execution for the double-edged sword it was: Yes, he was an evil dictator (one we helped create and promote into existence). But he was also a force of stability in the region and his death set off the horror that has been ongoing for more than 5 years now and STILL out of control!
Perhaps some of us recognized the duplicity of purpose in the Bush administration's deposing of Sadam Hussein.
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AlphaGnosisComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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Perhaps, Alpha, you might wish to educate yourself about who Helms was, and the evil--yes, evil--he did; the pain he caused; the intolerance and bigotry that he UNAPOLOGETICALLY stood for, before you mouth pieties about his soul.
Forgiveness only goes so far, you know? It's my understanding that god doesn't draw everyone to his/her/its bosom.
Wasn't hell devised to make that point?
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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There is no biblical text that suggests that the myth of a place that we burn forever for our sins exists. So no, Hell was made to be such a place.
http://www.equipministry.com/studies/mythhell.htm
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Gosh you had to make a false assumption about me because I don't see it the way you do, and this will be a long answer to the accusation.
Obviously, I do understand Christianity. I understand that people are Christians for a variety of reasons.
Some are for the very reasons you said which is pure and beautiful. Unfortunately there are 'Christians' that aren't in that category.
Some are Christians because they were born to Christian Parents and they were raised to be Christians. These people feel they had divine intervention that allowed them this, and they believe all others born around the world to other religions are doomed to hell. Boy talk about a bad toss of the dice.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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Some are Christians believe that even their 'fellow' Christians are going to burn in the same pits of hell. Even though the picked the right God and Son, well they picked the wrong segment of the same religion and don't worship the right way.
Many think the 'others' be they Anglican, Assembly of God, Baptist, Eastern Orthodox. Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon and all the other 'Christians', are going to Burn in the Lake of Fire because they chose the 'Wrong Path' to God. I find those "Christians" to be far from what you said. If you hold these tenets, I'd arguer that you yourself don't know what the heck you're talking about.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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What I see people do all the time is not understand that God is 'LOVE' in the purest form. Denying others the right to the ONLY THING of value on the planet because they don't 'fit into' a certain standard per their own 'personal' journey to find what God is and or their sexuality is against the very thing they claim they are in search of.
Sure sure the Bible says this and the Bible says that. If you are reading anything but strictly text in its original form you have a text book that is flawed, sorry. Read the link on hell, if one of the MAJOR things (Hell Fire and damnation of punishment) is wrong in your book, wouldn't that make you step back a bit?
What better way to hold on to the power that is religion than to say, 'Listen to me, I know the way and only I know the way, if you don't follow 'my interpretation' of the WORD you will be doomed to those fires', pass the plate and pile it high, we need money to spread the WORD of GOD according to me.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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God is not the limited being that will say to you when you die, Endo, you were a good human and you spent your life in a Journey in search of me, but when why could you not see that only the Jehovah Witnesses (or any denomination of your choice) were my true people and what did you do? You slandered them and when they tried to show you the 'way', you slammed the door in their face. I've reserved a place in Hell for you because of your mistake, though I appreciate the effort of the search.
It makes no sense does it? Remember GOD is pure love, he loves all on the planet, not just the Christians, 'or a certain denomination of Christianity', it's the Spiritual search that is the key, done out of longing for the truth, not the fear of being punished for eternity for a life that spans less than 100 years.
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father but by me."
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on him will not perish but have everlasting life"
Jesus took the bread and said, "This is my body which is broken for you"
Jesus took the wine and said, "This is my blood which is shed for you."
All this means that whatever the outer trappings a true believer is very grateful for the sacrifice that Jesus made so we can come to the Father through him. Yet you posted "only because he/she feels they have to be good to keep from being punished?" Christianity is about grace not works. No one can have good enough works in spite of what the Muslims or any other group says. God says that our best works are as filthy rags.
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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Keep in mind that there will be people that will say to Jesus all the good things they did in his name. And he will say, "Begone, I never knew you."
How can this be? A Christian does good works as a response to the sacrifice Jesus made and their love of Him. Without that our works count for nothing. This can affect anybody in any church or denomination. Do they do the works out of love for Him or out of fear. Do they really believe or not.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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I read the same book, I know what Jesus said,,,, I've also studied many religions,,, I'm Baptized,,,, and I don't condemn others because they read the same book I do and come up with a differnt view of what's meant by the words,,,, which BTW we don't have a Christian church but many 'clubs' that say they and only they are the way to Jesus,,,, What I said is not rambling,,, I've had Church of Christ folks and others tell me I was going to Hell for the reaso I didn't belong to their club,, that is not doing the works of Jesus,,,, and it's showing your own ignorance and willingness o follow doctrine set forth by others for your salvation
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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Read the book of Revelation. It's in there! It clearly states that at the final judgment, all evildoers and Godless people will depart into the lake of fire (Hell) and spend all eternity...and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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Again, your opinion, not fact. The bible is subject to individual interpretation. For that reason, I will not argue this point with you, except to say that the words I used above (perhaps not verbatim but accurately enough) are in the book of Revelation.
You wanted proof, I gave it to you, and as usual, you go into denial.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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Once again real scholars,, using un translated text,, that's the key cushi,,,, Un TRANSLATED,,,,, with the correct meaning of key words that make a 'Hell' of a difference,,,, not translated by an arogant King that thought he'd just make up his own personal 'verson' of Christianity,,,,, who not only changed Hell itself, but took the name of God out of the bible and replaced it with LORD which means 'sir' then they called Jesus 'Lord' and viola! Jesus is God himself,,,, he was actually the Father and the Son and the son part of him prayed to the father part of him and the Father part of him asked the son part to die for your sins and the son part did that,,,, now the father and son are in heaven but the son part will come for a 1,000 years but it will actually be the father,,,, yeah I can see where individual interpretaion will be needed,,,,
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AlphaGnosisComment removed: Hard Banned4 Replies
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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Truth is, Slate, I don't believe in hell--or heaven for that matter.
So when I suggest that some people should be consigned to hell, I'm suggesting that they deserve the ultimate condemnation.
I'm saying that their reputations are beyond redemption.
That, if you wish, their karma seriously REEKS.
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slate1 year, 6 months ago
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GOD's original plan was for man to live forever on a paradise Earth, it states that in Genesis. I'm of the thinking that God didn't change his mind because man sinned, in fact, I 'think' (because I'm not vain enough to say I know) that God has plenty of time to get things back on track. I see Heaven as that paradise and Hell as a hole in the Ground or 'death', nothingness. The God I search for would not punish with ever lasting pain, but maybe just make you not exist, or deny you the everlasting 'life in Paradise', I too believe in KARMA, that's why I refrain from talking smack about the newly dead. It's not my place to judge them for the life they live. I leave that to God.
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cushi1 year, 6 months ago
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Nothingness is not hell! Nothingness is oblivion. People who are oblivious to their circumstances are blissfully unaware.
Hardly a suitable punishment or deterrent to doing evil!
Hell is real, and a lot of people who don't expect it are going to bust it wide open!
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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There is no Hell reread my link, written by actual scholars of the original text.
God is love and gave his son in a loving way, a loving God will not subject someone that can not help but sin in their short lives to an eternal fire,,,, that is not the God I see,,,,,
"Hell is real, and a lot of people who don't expect it are going to bust it wide open!"
but not you Cushi cuz you are a good Christian? One that never has done anything not owrthy of Hell? Neva said a racial joke? Never wished others a faith such as hell? I'm gettign the feeling that maybe you are wishing that faith on me because I don't believe the same as you,,,,, my original point that started this is true..... many are good only because they fear Hell, not because they love God,,,, they only fear him. How sad.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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Let me tell you something Slate, the so-called "scholars" are merely giving their opinion, and trust this, I will rely on my own interepretation and not somebody else's. We are specifically instructed to study the Bible for ourselves - that means individually, seeking revelation from the holy scriptures by the divine power of God. I am not a spoon fed Christian. I take my salvation too seriously to not research the scriptures for myself.
One thing is for sure, if I am incorrect, I will not be able to stand before God and say, well, that's what the scholars told me! Each man will be judged for himself, by himself.
As for whether or not I'm going to heaven, I believe that I am, not because I'm any better than anyone else, but because I have repented, confess my sins before God, and have gratefully received His gift of salvation, which is not based on what we do, but on what He has done for us. That's what people who think they have it together don't understand.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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The more you post, the more obvious your lack of understanding and familiarity to the holy scriptures becomes!
There was only one perfect Man - the Lord Jesus Christ. No one, not me, and definitely you, are good in any sense of the word apart from the indwelling of His spirit within us.
No, I don't profess to be "good" in my own right. Absolutely not!
The bible says ALL (mankind) have sinned and fallen short of the grace of God. What kind of bible study are you engaged in if you don't even know that? Would you like to me to help you with bible study?
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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The more you post, the more obvious your lack of understanding and familiarity to the holy scriptures becomes!
Keep think that Cushi,,, the scholars were using original text not a translation by a King that thought he knew better, that took the original word whcih meant a hole in the ground or death and made it into a place of fire that you will go if you don't conform,,, be my guest conform to the will of others,,,, but next time you come in and try to act like you are a Christian and fell you know the way,, please leave me out of it and refrain from pretending you will help in my redemtion,,, you don't need to keep reminding us that you are a professed Christian,,,,
Would you like to me to help you with bible study?
LOL you don't even know Hell isn't a real place,,, and you don't even consider that God plans on us living on Earth,,,,I'm also pretty sure that you think Jesus is God and not the Son of Man...you want to teach me huh?
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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Mormons, do they deserve to burn Cush? How about, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists, Muslims?
What about Christians like me that think the original text of the bible says Hell means death and not some burning place to suffer forever? What about Christians like me that think Jesus is not God but his son? Shall we fry because of it?
What about Christians like me that think God crated with a bang, let evolution take place not for 6,000 years but 5 billion, until man was given reason of thought and free will to be in the image of God?
What special hell do you have in store for us? Remember after you wish this on others you can still praise Jesus and know that this sin is forgiven, if you belong to the one true Church God has chosen. I hope you've chosen well, the church you are connected to may or may not be the 'one'. Good luck.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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I have repented, confess my sins before God, and have gratefully received His gift of salvation,
Funny, I've done those things too, yet you still think I'm going to hell,,,, I guess it's a matter of doing so acording to you or it doesn't count?
No wonder many people hate self righteous Christians so much.
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cushi1 year, 5 months ago
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I don't have any idea where you will go, that's not my decision to make. You are making a lot of inaccurate assumptions in the posts above. I am not going to waste my time and energies "re-educating" you or enlightening you on your numerous false premises.
It's a free country, think whatever you want.
You don't have to be self-righteous to recognize what evil is. I recognize when I see it, such as in the case of the late, disgraced Jesse Helms.
If you expect me to back down from that just because you don't like it, don't hold your breath.
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slate1 year, 5 months ago
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Nothingness is not hell!
Nothingness or be separated from God is as bad as it gets,,, Hardly a suitable punishment or deterrent to doing evil!
Oh know all the other faiths need to BURN baby Burn is that it? No matter how good and unlike you condemning and hateful of the others, yet you feel you are going to be rewarded for that thought process because you belong to the 'correct' teachings according to those that indoctrinated you?
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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Alpha, perversely or not (and I'll opt for the former), you've chosen to neglect the most salient, most DEFINING, info on Helms.
I fear that my black is your white, if you'll forgive the all to-relevant figure of speech, but take a look at this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/04/usa...
(I've purposely chosen a non-American source, for perspective.)
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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And, Alpha, just to tie it up a little more...forthrightly:
http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/04/bigot-racist-...
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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What you ignore is that the southern Democrats were saying the same things. Of course none of the Democrats want to remember that. The Governor that stood in the doorway to prevent children from coming into the school. That man was a Democrat. He even later ran for President. He didn't get the nomination.
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quackpot1 year, 6 months ago
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Rather than condemn the man for his views which, in 2008 seem totally obnoxious, it might be more valuable to understand the forces that enabled this man of hate to rise to become a senior Dean of U.S. politics.
Jesse Helms was MUCH larger than an individual. An understanding of the U.S. deserves an objective view of this senior representative of the nation and the forces that gave him his power.
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Natureboy1 year, 6 months ago
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"An understanding of the U.S. deserves an objective view of this senior representative of the nation and the forces that gave him his power."
Indeed, such an examination would lead us to the dark heart of American racism, imperialism and exceptionalism.
You've raised a very good point, quackpot - please elaborate.
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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Uh, Endo, there's a difference between most people who try to live the most moral lives they can, and someone in a position of power who willfully, ostentatiously, brings his heel down--and encourages others to do the same--on the most marginalized and therefore most vulnerable groups, to prevent their enjoying the rights to which they're entitled--to prevent an equality of power.
Of course one must see Helms within the culture of his time, and understand the social forces that shaped him-- that allowed and encouraged his ascent.
This does not, however, forgive the demagogue his treachery.
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Endoscopy1 year, 6 months ago
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But you ignore the other Democrats like Governor Wallace etc. Why? Wallace called out the national guard to defy the Federal Government. The president then called the same guards and then they were under a different commander.
Keep in mind that ONLY in Boston was there anything done to the children. In Boston angry Democrat demonstrators tried to push over a bus loaded with children when protesting busing. Democrats have very convenient memories. In South Bend near where I grew up a restaurant served a black man and then went out of business because whites then refused to go there. It was not just the South that had the problem. They were just more out in the open with it.
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Poulenc1 year, 6 months ago
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End, please: this IS NOT A PARTISAN ISSUE!
I'll repeat myself, but not in caps: this is not a partisan issue.
Helms could have been a Dem, a socialist, a communist, a martian--the point is that he was a person who had power and he ABUSED it.
He had a stage--and he was a malign player on it.
He did bad.
He was a bad person.
And would have been no matter his political affiliation.
Nor does it matter that others in power shared his pathology.
He was the first among any equals.
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ningyo1 year, 5 months ago
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kind of like robert KKK byrd..or the other dem icon FDR who refused entry for the ss st louis and its 937 jewish refugees..knowingly sending them back to face the fate we now see..FDR's state dept was rife with anit-semites and racists but somehow all is forgiven for this great hero of the left--i'm no big fan of helm's but the hypocrisy of the liberal left is once again astounding..they should clean up their own house first
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mmrhe1 year, 5 months ago
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ningyo
If I follow your logic correctly, nobody who considers themselves a Democrat can criticize a Republican for racist views because FDR was or had racists in his administration.
Does it not follow then that the US has no moral authority to criticize or stop another country from using or developing nuclear weapons?
How far do you want to take that path?
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