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Posted by: alakazam 1 year, 5 months ago
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alakazam1 year, 5 months ago
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I dunno...it's not bogus to the people that feel that way.
Understand me...I don't care what a person does in the bedroom. It's none of my business.
There ARE people serving that have very strong opinions on the issue. Right or Wrong doesn't matter to them. They DO view it as a sexuality issue, the same feelings they have about separate toilets between the sexes. Some cultures are not nearly so hung up about that sort of thing as Americans, but there it is.
I don't think anything that would be disruptive to unit cohesion is a good thing. This is going to cause problems, like it or not. Don't ask, Don't tell may not be the best policy, but the Government doesn't have the right to enforce association.
The Military is not a platform for social experimentation.
I have heard the objections of some military members, it's their Club...Let's leave it to them.
Hell...let them Vote on it.
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ZippySpincycle1 year, 5 months ago
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Alakazam says, "The Military is not a platform for social experimentation."
Actually, the military is in some ways an ideal platform for social experimentation: it was the first major US institution to be racially integrated, and one of the reasons military integration worked so well is that it could be demanded much more easily than in civilian society. Much less of that bothersome "personal freedom" that gets in the way in civilian settings. An order is an order, and disobedience is not simply rude, it's insubordination. Odd that you should simultaneously argue in favor of "unit cohesion" while saying that "the government doesn't have the right to enforce association." Unit cohesion is nothing BUT enforced association.
Heh...as for letting members of the military vote on policy, you definitely have a pretty novel idea of how military organizations work.
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alakazam1 year, 5 months ago
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It is a good platform for all kinds of physiological experimentation too! Give me a break!
Forcing some things upon people who have signed away their Rights in order to Serve is a great disservice to them.
I know just EXACTLY how the military works, I am playing Devil's Advocate maybe...I dunno.
What EXACTLY is it gays want?
To be able to say "Hey hey I'm Gay."
I don't get it...sorry
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scott42611 year, 5 months ago
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"What EXACTLY is it gays want?
"To be able to say 'Hey hey I'm Gay.'"
"I don't get it...sorry"
What you don't seem to "get" is that we serve in the military for all the same reasons that straight people do. And that we want to serve our country with patriotism and honor...no more, no less.
All we ask is that we are not required to be dishonest about who we are in order to serve. Sexuality has NOTHING to do with it. Fairness has EVERYTHING to do with it.
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alakazam1 year, 5 months ago
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tkyrchncs1 year, 5 months ago
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It makes YOU "uncomfortable", so YOU make it a problem for others as patriotic and capable as YOU to be in the service. THAT'S what our sexuality has to do with it, exactly NOTHING. This bigotry of STRAIGHTS has been codified into first, military regulation, and now, law.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 5 months ago
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Why do you feel that we should make exceptions and allow homophobes to dictate military policy, when racists are not allowed to, nor religious bigots, nor any other bigots? We are normal citizens, how can you excuse this discrimination against us because of the irrationality of others?
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ZippySpincycle1 year, 5 months ago
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"So what is it you want? Acceptance?
Why? Do you need the approval of others."
Sorry, alakazam, but you are either trolling or unspeakably dense. My money is on the first, frankly.
What gay members of the service want is to not have their careers threatened for something that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with their ability to do the job.
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alakazam1 year, 5 months ago
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I am NOT trolling. I have heard the same things over and over.
They are not going to convince the folks opposed to it.
I dunno what to tell you, the mainstream is going to have to find a reason to come to acceptance of it or it's going to stay just like it is.
So what will convince them, beating them into submission as suggested later in the thread?
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ZippySpincycle1 year, 5 months ago
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Which "mainstream"? If you're talking about Americans at large, the polling is clear: "A national poll conducted in May 2005 by the Boston Globe showed 79% of participants having nothing against openly gay people from serving in the military. A Pew Research Center survey conducted in March 2006 showed that 60% favor allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, with 31% opposed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell
On the other hand, "an Army Times poll of military members found that 50 percent supported the ban and only 25 percent said homosexuals should be allowed to serve openly." http://www.washtimes.com/news/2004/oct/12/20041...
As noted elsewhere, this opposition within the military is not necessary a reason to keep the current policy--I would be willing to bet that a similar proportion of military members supported racial segregation when President Truman ordered that the armed forces be integrated.
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tkyrchncs1 year, 5 months ago
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The goal is to be treated EQUALLY. Nobody cares if you're straight, and nobody should care if you're gay, and neither one should be a secret, any more than any other socially important thing about you is secret. It should have no effect on membership or promotion or decoration or assignment or anything else. The Commander-in-Chief should long ago have ordered equal treatment of gays as Truman did the racial integration of the services: he called in all the senior commanders and over their exactly similar objections told them to make it happen with no incidents, and if they thought they could not or would not, then to leave their stars on the table when they left.
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