Comments for Nazi Jews: A Historical Paradox »
Posted By bcuban 1 year, 5 months ago in Arts & EntertainmentWould it surprise anyone to learn that there were upwards of 150, 000 soldiers of partial Jewish descent serving in the Nazi army during World War II?
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
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The Jews DO seem to have a built in self-hate mechanism. A good portion of them seem to be on the side of those that shoot missiles and rockets into Israeli neighborhoods from territory (Gaza) traded in the hopes of achieving peace.
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cantfoolme1 year, 5 months ago
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In Hitler's younger days in Vienna, when he was an aspiring artist, his closest friend was a Jew. He would have come into contact with many other Jews and at this stage of his life he had no anti Jewish feelings. Unfortunately, by the time he wrote Mein Kampf, his attitude had changed. The rest is history. The rest is depressing.
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cantfoolme1 year, 5 months ago
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Maybe we all have somewhere. Just goes to show that evil is not to do with race but to do with specific individuals and their specific doctrines. We can't honestly say he was born wicked. The documentary that you watched will have shown his diificult upbringing. I am not making excuses for this evil tyrant of course but time and time again in our western society the lack of a normal and loving childhood leads to all sorts of twisted characters.
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ecotourusa1 year, 5 months ago
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Does it surprise anyone that George Soros freely admitted that he posed as the "adopted godson" of an official of the Nazi-occupation government, and helped in the confiscation of Jewish properties?
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/06/16/...
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Klarissa1 year, 5 months ago
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More facts emerged about the effects of the war. Of my birth year, 1923, only 30 percent of the males came back from the war, that is, 70 percent were killed. The years from about 1920 on to 1926 suffered equal or higher losses. It was only natural that the few men of these birth years who did return had enormous opportunities. Young women were looking for boyfriends, widows were looking for husbands, and businesses were looking for bosses.
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Wolfie20071 year, 5 months ago
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gamahuche1 year, 5 months ago
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Lets at least say SOME Jews, Wolfie..
There was plenty of opposition to Hitler from many sides, Jewish, democratic, Communist, Socialist - but he and his stormtroopers dedicated themselves to dispensing with all of them in one way or another..
Because the definition of who was Jewish kept changing - by fractions, primarily, of course at the beginning there were some who believed that if they kept quiet and didn't bother anyone they would be left alone and survive. How successful THAT strategy proved is pretty obvious in retrospect.
My own situation was as the son of a 1/2 Jewish father with an English mother who had worked for the British Council. Over 60 years letter I can still experience the frissson of the time that a very drunk and very obnoxious German soldier insisted that I sat on his knee on a train. I would love to say that I peed on him but, alas, that would be rewriting history..
**
A great read this!
Thanks for the heads-up Dicax M
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CRYMTYPHON1 year, 5 months ago
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Klarissa1 year, 5 months ago
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CRYMTYPHON1 year, 5 months ago
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From the beginning the national socialists were violently anti-semitic.
From the beginning Hitler called for the extermination of the Jews.
It was always a political movement. It never took jewish support or recieved any.
You are obviously trying to fit something in that is important to you (guns) but you don't seem to know much about it.
And the question was, is there any justification for saying what wolfie said?
It could hinge on what is meant by 'cooperate'. I want to hear his reason for saying it; seems incorect to the point of insane.
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Xaos1 year, 5 months ago
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It is true that the National Socialist were always anti-semitic but in the beginning they were more concerned/opposed to the Communist than anything else. Once they gained power and eliminated the Communist Party in Germany and other political opposition is when they turned there attention to the Jews.
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CRYMTYPHON1 year, 5 months ago
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True; and yet irrelevant.
Unless you are implying there were jewish supporters during its earlier years.
To which I repeat; there was no jewish support of the Nazis, ever.
No doubt there were members who had jewish decent (possibly hitler himself); but that means as little as a KKK member not knowing/admitting an occasional black/catholic/jewish ancestor.
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Xaos1 year, 5 months ago
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Not implying that at all, just stating facts. The National Socialist eliminated the Communist then trade unions and other political problems way before they ever began with the Jewish persecution. I also have read that they did use a strong anti-communist/ anti-semitic rhetoric when they were coming to power. They believed that the Communist and the Jews were allies. As far as Jews openly supporting the Nazis, I agree with you, that would of never happened. There were many reported cases of Jews joining the Weirmarcht, some through patriotic duty, others in attempt to hide from persecution in later years.
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Xaos1 year, 5 months ago
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Think what he was implying is that the residents of the Warsaw Ghetto were manipulated toward that uprising by the harsh conditions there. Not a willing collaboration but a manipulation. Made an other reply but good ole Propeller put it at the end of all the post instead of where it should of went.
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CRYMTYPHON1 year, 5 months ago
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Well, you did say the 'warsaw uprising', which is historicaly the bloody attempt to end the german occupation by the city.
But of course the earlier 'warsaw getto uprising' was primarily jewish against german.
So you are you AGREEING that the jews (as any kind of group) did not ever support the nazis?
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HannibalBarca1 year, 5 months ago
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No, many of the inmates in the camps did menial jobs for the Nazi's to escape the ovens, but the majority did not, and my comment on the 43 uprising was to show that for the first time since 68AD the Jews fought back in numbers; what is their battle cry now, never another Masada? or something similar.
Just showing that yes the Jews did oppose the Nazi's, and with a damn good showing too.
DM says it well a few posts down.
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Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
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"Would it surprise anyone to learn that there were upwards of 150, 000 soldiers of partial Jewish descent serving in the Nazi army during World War II?"
No. It would not suprise me that there were some complexities and confusing questions about the heritage of some Germans with or without Jewish ancestry.
And it would not surprise me that someone would go out of the their way to write a story and emphasizse the worst role that SOME Jews played during the holocaust years.
Furthermore, it would not surprise me that an article like this would attract anti-Semitic comments like Wolfie's. Which is a false statement. (A very small percentage.)
Most bigots and anti-Semites like to classify everyone in the group according to the negative characteristics of a few.
Well done, Wolfie. I would expect nothing better from you on the subject.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 5 months ago
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There's a good Herzog film on this subject. At least one man's story, a fellow who escaped persecution by pretending to be one of them...
I'm not sure why anyone wants totalitarian governments of any kind, but there are those who do. I suppose they think they are immune or will benefit personally for their collusion.
It's sad. Sadder still when we learn nothing from history.
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bcuban1 year, 5 months ago
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
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I'm thinking that the gene for trying to appease and be nice to evil in the however slim hope that evil doesn't continue to oppress, expand, and destroy, runs deep in just about everyone, not just those Jews during the time of Nazi Germany. I think I'm guilty of that kind of appeasement myself, to an extent. Some might call it the "coward gene". I'd call it the "Liberal Progressive" gene.
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
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Dionys: "Who said anything about Islam?" So, I AM accurate in talking about Islam? Ok. "What a strange obsession you have. Islam and Nazis. Disturbing." Again, O "I'm not a Muslim", HOW have I been "almost never accurate towards what I'm trying to 'describe'? Don't change the subject, but, name atleast one? :)
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Natureboy1 year, 5 months ago
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Lets try this - it is the "obedience to authority reflex" and we all have it to some degree. The Milgram experiments explained a lot about how average people can be made to do repugnant things by authority figures.
And beyond that, Goebbels was a skilled propagandist, so much so that the US follows his playbook to this day. Remember, they were "liberators" of Europe, and the allies were engaging in terrorism, that was what Germans were told every day by their newspapers and radio stations. Those who fought in the German Army largely thought they were defending their country against ruthless attack, much as most in our armed forces somehow think they are "defending our country" by killing Iraqis and Afghanis.
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Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
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Sometimes when the human perspective is removed from what some would call factual or "objective" history, it loses its pertinence, its meaning, and fails to recognize the overall perspective about the events of the time under scrutiny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymuF7uG6wis
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Klarissa1 year, 5 months ago
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My husband wrote a book, from his childhood to the end of the war. He walked back to Germany from a Russian POW camp and was homeless.
He has his book on a website. I won't put it here - but if you are interested send me a message on the message center. If I am familiar with your name I will give you the website name.
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Spadecaller1 year, 5 months ago
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Mutainia1 year, 5 months ago
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"If someone thinks you are a Muslim, what makes that an "accusation"?" Guilty as charged. You're right, Spade, I DO accuse Dionys of being a Muslim, even though he says he isn't. As long as he attacks and accuses me of being a liar whenever I point out what I feel are problems within Islam, and he does it withOUT evidence (like so many OTHERS have done before with me and said they WERE Muslims), well, I'm going to have a very difficult time NOT thinking Dionys is a Muslim and, is using...(HIT the Twilight Zone music, Jovial) TAQQIYA, when he says he's NOT a Muslim. Sorry, Dionys. It's NOT your fault, it's not even Muslims or even terrorist MUSLIMs' fault. It's Quran 3:28 and 16:106's fault.
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Poulenc1 year, 5 months ago
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Mutania, please! Patriotism is, finally, a personal matter--like one's choice of partner or one's religious (or nonreligious) convictions---and shouldn't be subject to anyone's litmus (unless, perhaps, some blatant betrayal is suspected).
Without REALLY wishing to engage in the usual right-left jousting, I don't hear libs b*itching about someone's lack of patriotism very much.
I'd say that doing so is an authoritarian specialty, in the province of those who tend to think dichotomously--right/wrong, good/bad, strong/week--and for whom allying oneself with strong centralized power (despite ENDLESS protests to the contrary) is a big item.
As in, "America: love it or leave it."
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canadianrancher571 year, 5 months ago
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I am not really one for history but am sort of curious if Hitler's intent was known right from the beginning of his rise to power. He helped bring Germany out of a severe economic crisis by arming his nation and likely under the idea that Germany would not be defeated again which would likely cause many if not all people to be patriotic. The mans paranoia kept him always looking for someone to blame and I wonder if he had the Jewish people in mind from the start or if it was not an idea that was common around the world at the time. I have seen some comments above about the number of Jews that supported him and think that it would have depended on the time of his reign.
Patriotism is sometimes a blinding force that prevents people from seeing the truth.
I did not vote for this story because I did not like it's intent
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Klarissa1 year, 5 months ago
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It was common around that time that they always blamed the Jews for everything, particularly the end of ww1.
There were some Jews in very high positions in the Weimar republic who supposedly did something wrong. For example, signing the Versailles Peace treaty.
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splitrch1 year, 5 months ago
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As a small population of "others" in every country until 1948, Jews were always easy targets for scapegoating. When the population is angry it is easy to affix blame - especially if those affixing the blame are the cause of the discomfort.
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Poulenc1 year, 5 months ago
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*Closes mouth that's dropped open after reader Mutania's reply to my comment, above*
How, dear Mutania, did the subject of my feelings about the etiology of gayness arise from my post?
Inquiring minds want to know.
But in answer to your question: the jury's still out about what "causes" gayness; my own feeling is that there are probably a number of ways to arrive at sexual interest in one's own sex, and that a genetic basis for that choice may certainly play a part.
I do NOT feel, however, that one chooses gayness* any more than one chooses straightness--or one's eye color, for that matter. Like straightness, it is, I feel, INNATE.
In this and in all other ways I would make a lousy televangelist.
* one possible stop on a continuum of sexual attraction possibility
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prof671 year, 5 months ago
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if you don't learn history; you are bound to repeat it.
Stalin - as soon as he took over - killed all the Russian Othodox priests and destroyed every symbol of religion in Russia.
Religion is the enemy of all despots. Hitler put as many Christians in jails as Jews. To Hitler, they were his opposition.
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MrALO1 year, 5 months ago
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First, Hitler was not Jewish, nor did he have any close relatives who were Jewish. He learned his prejudice from his family, his community and through the virulent anti-Jewish media. It was considered the in-thing, in Austria at that time, to be anti-Jewish.
Second, a child is considered Jewish only if the mother is Jewish. If there were Nazi soldiers with Jewish fathers or grandfathers, the child is not Jewish unless they go through a conversion. Just because a child might have a Jewish paternal ancestor and probably raised Christian, doesn't mean that they are automatically Jewish. If the recruiters in the Nazi army knew of any Jewish ancestry the recruit would never have been allowed to join and if they did, it might have been as a form of survival.
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splitrch1 year, 5 months ago
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"First they cameâ;¦" is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892â;;1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
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ToniWalt1 year, 5 months ago
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I have talked to many Jews of Russian and German descent about the impact of "being Jewish" on their lives. One of German descent did not want to discuss it with me as I was an African American. The other, a Russian (Ukrainian) Jew who had come to this country in the 70s was completely forth coming and informative. His father served in the Russian military and died in New York City. I was fascinated due to my father's presence at the camps accompanying Gen. Eisenhower. Now, I am a doctoral student studying this phenomena of an ethnic group's self hatred, refusal to admit their heritage to themselves or others, and their participation of their own destruction by others and themselves. I was glad to see that African Americans were not the only ones with such self-hatred. This subject certainly deserves more study. Many have died who can add to the information, but some of their written stories still exist, as do the stories of African Americans.
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ToniWalt1 year, 5 months ago
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To Mr. ALO: It is not known if he had Jewish blood or not! No one has ever investigated Hitler's heritage. However, his dying mother's doctor was Jewish for whom he had great respect. It seems that Hitler's resentments came from three areas: his failed and unaccepted art work in Vienna, his early financial situation (poverty or lower middle class values), and his gang of sociopaths and psychotic minds that followed his world view (Mein Kampf). I've often said that Hitler was mentally ill and I believe that he was, but so much so that people did not recognize his insanity. He was perhaps the most insane man we've seen in the 20th century.
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petemeister1 year, 5 months ago
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just saw a show on pbs the other day about the fall of the Incan empire. What they discovered was that the Incans that were killed at Lima were mostly killed by their own, and not the Spaniards. I believe they said there was one that had a bullet hole in his head from a Spaniard. So this really does not surprise me that there were Jews fighting on the nazi side. I imagine that would be self preservation.
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Xaos1 year, 5 months ago
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You kinda confused me with that one but I think I understand what you are meaning. There were German collaborators during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 43, but there are always collaborators in every conflict. I have read that it was triggered by the harsh conditions endured by those living in the Ghetto, but as far as willing support of the German agenda there I would say no. Was the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising something that the Nazis desired, history would indicate yes, but it was not a willing collaboration.
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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My reaction to this post is "so what"? This post is brought to us by someone with no real purpose in the world except living off his brother's success. Yeah, he "works" for Mark Cuban Companies. What do you think the odds are he'll never be fired or laid off? And he's got a lot of right wing friends.
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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[Continuing] So, putting aside the debate over how the Nazis "classified" persons of Jewish descent, what is the point the article is trying to advance? Is it that the Nazis were inconsistent or maybe even "soft" in some respects on their racial policies. Can't be. The Holocaust really happened, and there ain't nothing to that but pure evil reduced to its finest essence.
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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[Continuing] (Now that brings up a much more interesting topic, all the American right wing groups who deny the Holocaust. When Ahmadinejad does this, American right wingers go into monkey shriek fits. But when Ronnie Raygun was president, an Orange County, California group, the "Liberty Lobby," openly advanced the same thing. Raygun and the "Lobby" were strong mutual supporters. The forerunner to today's neo-cons, the John Birch Society, was always openly anti-Semitic. We see anti-Semitism on this very thread. Hey Wolfie and Mutant, do you acknowledge the Holocaust was real and not just Zionist propaganda? And BTW, Mutant, the neo-con gene is a mutation of the bipolar sociopathic gene. It's true, look it up.)
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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[Continuing] Returning to my theme, which is what is it this post is trying to say, if it isn't that the Nazis were soft or inconsistent, is it that the Jews were compliant in their fate? This is a popular piece of sh!t in New Age and "Law of Attraction" circles, as well as among right wingers, that the Jewish people, by their negative thinking and persecution complex, brought the Holocaust upon themselves. So is the post trying to say that by joining the German Army, the Jewish soldiers somehow assisted in the destruction of their people? Funny, we don't think that way about the Nisei soldiers of WWII, that their service in the US military somehow exonerated the American people from their seizing the property of Japanese-Americans and throwing them into our own version of concentration camps. We think of the Nisei soldiers as true freedom fighters even though their country had sh!t all over them and their people.
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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[Continuing] And, as some members have said here, sometimes one must do what one must do to survive. In the concentration camps, the SS appointed Jewish thugs to keep other Jewish inmates in line. I think those thugs were call "Kapoks" or something like that. Is the post trying to say that the German-Jewish soldiers were the military equivalent of kapoks?
I can't tell what the point of this post is. If it's just to pass on a little piece of trivia, well, given the horrors the Nazis unleashed in starting WWII, it's one trivia morsel that's probably best left unknown.
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obiefrommuskogee1 year, 5 months ago
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I think the story is just bringing to light some oddities of that time.
In these discussions, someone always brings up Holocaust deniers like a gun to your head.
Six million jews died, but so did 6 million non jews. Jews don't "own" the holocaust.
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TrueProgressive1 year, 5 months ago
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hey inbredidiotfrommuskigee, although others besides Jews perished in the concentration camps, e.g., gays, communists, gypsies among many others, the Nazis' primary focus was the Jewish people. The aim of the Nazi-designed "Final Solution" was the destruction of European Jewry. So while the Jewish people may not "own" the Holocaust, to use your absurd word, they were its focus and its reason for being.
And just out of curiosity inbred, do you also deny the Holocaust occurred?
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