Putin Outmaneuvers the West »
Posted By jovial 1 year, 3 months ago in News
Russia's strongman Vladimir Putin has achieved his goal in Georgia -- the country has been destabilized. And the West will have to look on powerless when its ally, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, is eventually driven from office.
Read Full Story at spiegel.de »
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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jovial1 year, 3 months ago
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A good article outlining the Russian strategy. The article states that it was never the intention to take over and occupy Georgia. The aim was to destabilize it. The Georgian people will blame their President for angering the sleeping bear.
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rwrnae1 year, 3 months ago
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And they will be correct in saying so. The fool was warned not to provoke Russia. We need to re-evaluate this whole situation. Russia would be a far better friend and allie than China. The Russian people still like Americans, they just think our government is nuts. Incidentally, they don't think much of either of our presidential candidates, McCain because he is stuck in a 1950's cold war mindset, Obama because of his inexperience and blatant liberalism.
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4thchance1 year, 3 months ago
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The Dems won't allow us to drill for our own oil. I guess they prefer that we stay dependent on our enemies to supply us with oil. Here's what the Dems say. NO drilling, instead use our reserves. Then when we get all our oil cut off by the Middle east, then the Dems will be happy because we would then be SCREWED. I beleive the dems want our country to completely fail under the Repups, in hopes that we will never vote repub again. That way the Dems can cast their rule of socialism on us! I do beleive that is the Dems plans...
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airwick1944Comment removed: Retracted by user3 Replies
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nikkibabe1 year, 3 months ago
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What Putin has demonstrated is that USA cannot be the only country to use military force when its interests are at a threat. It is another example that any country that can be stupid enough to align itself with a war monger like Bush, will face its own music.
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Endoscopy1 year, 3 months ago
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For the Russian troops to attack this quickly they have to have been preparing to do it starting months ago. Getting the troops there and lining up supply all takes time. Then they fool people like you into thinking this is just a reaction to what Georgia did. Not hardly. They responded too quickly and the revolt that Georgia was putting down seems a little too well timed. Why are the Russian tanks still driving deeper into Georgia? After all they now control the oil pipeline and that was a major objective. Could it be that they are going to retake it like the Czars did?
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Ratskii1 year, 3 months ago
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I wonder if Saakashvili has listened to much Dylan? I'm working from memory here, so don't hold me to this but I remember a song that went:
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I started out on Burgandy, but soon hit the harder stuff
My friends all said they'd stand by me if the game got rough
But when I looked around there was nobody even there to bluff
I'm goin back to New York City, I do believe I've had enough.-
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AnteUp1 year, 3 months ago
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Ratskii ~
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I like your analogy but,
"My friends all said they'd stand by me if the game got rough"
Just exactly what game WAS Georgia playing? Didn't they start this
conflict last week - WITH the approval of our administration?
AND what were they doing in South Ossetia before the Russians
became involved? Weren't they killing Ossetians?
McCain said in DesMoines," “The US should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course.”
Per:http://exiledonline.com/georgia-gets-its-war-onmccain-gets-his-brain-plaque/
The problem with McCain’s bold demand about going to the UN is that Russia already tried doing exactly what McCain called for–and got rejected by McCain’s neocon pals in the Bush Administration. Early this morning, Russia convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, calling on both sides to immediately cease hostilities, return to the negotiating table and renounce the use of force–but the last part about renouncing the use of force is exactly what Georgia’s president Mikhail Saakashvili refuses to do.
I am still trying to sort these events out and I don't think our media is helping.
Check this out:
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/12/youtube-whos-to-blame-for-the-russian-georgian-conflict/#comments
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thaw1 year, 3 months ago
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i feel that now, is not the time to get caught up in a "dong measuring" contest.
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the immediate fighting and deaths are over. (touch wood) and certainly, a close eye has to kept on all parties concerned.
but, russia obviously has the "aces" in this hand. it's time to just smile and wave.
and learn form this valuable lesson. -
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skeek1 year, 3 months ago
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Allow me to paraphrase your spin more truthfully -- "Putin knew what was happening from start to finish with Bush and knew his intentions in Georgia."
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As you, and many others in America, haven't been following the facts of these events, preferring to rewrite them while the ink is still sopping wet so that you can better shoehorn them into your indoctrinated prejudices and preconceptions, I'll fill you in.
Firstly, South Ossetia is under autonomous rule. It doesn't answer to Georgia. It voted for independence in 1991, with a definite preference shown for Russia. For example, Ossetians hold Russian passports. A war with Georgia followed, not unlike this one, Russia retaliated, not unlike this time, and Georgia lost, also not unlike this time.
Secondly, under Bush, the US has armed, trained, and even uniformed the Georgian military. Georgia has reciprocated this preferential colonial treatment by sending troops to America's imperial war in Iraq, and also applied to join NATO. In short, it is at America's bidding, groomed for just this moment, although, obviously, this has not been the desired result. While Bush was condemning the violence America was flying Georgian troops from Iraq back to Georgia, not to keep the peace, but to continue the war. Further evidence of America's complicit involvement in creating this crisis and supporting Georgia's war crimes.
With the irony of Francis Coppola's most dramatic juxtaposition of cinematic narratives, Bush would have been aware, while he gazed up at the Olympic fireworks over Beijing's Birdnest Stadium, that at the same time, Georgia was conducting genocide, ethnically cleansing South Ossetia. Restraining Saakashvili would not have been a consideration.
The reasons for America's interest in Georgia are simple - imperial expansion and oil, as per usual, in addition to the containment of Russia.
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AnteUp1 year, 3 months ago
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Regarding Bush's intentions?
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Here are three minutes of some REAL geo-political analysis of the region.
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2047
We are playing a war game - but people are dying. Do you not think it is strange
that they only bombed out buildings and wounded civilians being seen on our
media are from Georgian towns? What exactly was the Georgian army using
for ammo when they INITIATED this attack...............to paraphrase Zell Miller....
"spitwads"? Where are the pictures - where are the reports from South Ossetia?
Watch the video - then tell me this is not a NeoCon exercise. And don't misunderstand
me - I wouldn't trust Putin any further than I could throw him - but that goes for Bush &
Cheney as well. It is important that WE do our best to sort this out. Even if in the end
it becomes a picture of multiple bad-guys only - sometimes there are no heroes.
But there are civilians being terrorized on both sides - they matter. -
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willottica1 year, 3 months ago
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I think the biggest difference between Bush and Putin seems to be that Putin is a very smart man.
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Both ostensibly want what is best for their respective countries. Putin, I think understandably, wants to see Russia as a superpower again - why shouldn't it be? It's the largest country in the world!
Before condemning Putin for his desire to see Russia's world status raised, think about how you would feel if the US were no longer the world's number one superpower. If there's one thing I've seen in Republicans, it's the desire to be the best.
As a Canadian, my country is a great place to live. That's enough for me. It doesn't have to be the best place to live, it's good enough. Americans on this site seem very obsessed with the idea that the US is the best country in the world. I don't really fault them for this, they got that reputation, and now they don't want to lose it. But I think in the struggle to save face, American vanity does more to harm its reputation than help it. Russia is similar, it was once on top of the world (or at least a major contender) and it wants to be there again. It has a goal.
If Russia's goal to become a world superpower is an evil one, then couldn't the same be said of America's goal to remain the only superpower?-
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simonsez1 year, 3 months ago
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Will, I agree with your perspective. It seems like these days many of us have to constantly repeat how great our country is because there are so many in our country complaining how bad we are. We've made mistakes, but we're basically good people with good intentions for everyone.
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Russia will be a superpower again, a country spanning 11 time zones, 40% of the world's raw materials and approximately half the population of the USA. They are becoming wealthy with their natural resources as is Canada and will be an economic power to contend with like no other.
I would welcome other countries stepping up to become equals with us and take some of the burden off us. There are substantial changes coming in the next 20 years or so and that's a good thing. -
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AnteUp1 year, 3 months ago
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I never kid myself where Putin is concerned, whatever the facts may be on this
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particular event. Putin was KGB - what Bush authorizes with the stroke of a pen
- for someone ELSE to do................Putin, on the other hand, has probably already
done himself. Look at the tactics he has used to silence dissidents........pure KGB.
As I may have mentioned before - more bad guys playing than we know what
to do with!
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Georgia501 year, 3 months ago
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I was encouraged by Obama's response to the invasion of Georgia:
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"This is unacceptable. Russia's days of Empire are over! If elected, I will expel the invaders from Georgia, starting with Atlanta!!!"
Ok...so he wasn't homeschooled. At least he has the right idea. -
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HannibalBarca1 year, 3 months ago
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Wow, Love thy neighbour must have a different meaning to you.
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A 100 years ago Russia was a backwards feudal state and going nowhere.
They got a chit kicking in 1902 from Japan,were at war with Germany in 1914, and then with Britain, USA, and others in 1919, got a madman in 23 to lead them, attacked again in 41 by Germany, and believe it or not; but no Russia in WW!! then Germany wins, hands down, and after again a cold war with USA and Britain.
Trouble is they never sent troops to foreign lands like USA has, always painted the bad guy (and yes they were bad, just not USA's equal)and now when Russia responds just like USA did in 63 they are pigs.
When leaders of your country can come up with a plan like PNAC, elect many of the authors to office of this plan and then support them; don't get upity with others if they play the same game.
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BB641 year, 3 months ago
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This article is clearly pro-Soviet. I use that term because the USSR lives again. A former head of the KGB is running things. First, the ceasefire is not on. Russian armor continues to move forward against unarmed civilians. Secondly comparing Saakashvili to Saddam Hussein would be like comparing apples to tanks. Saakasvili never had death squads, rape troops or mass graves. What he did offer was a voice to stand up to a dictator like Putin. Putin has been playing in this region for over 10 years. It's time for the west to stand up to him. It's time rearm our old allies and help our ones. If this means dusting off the Pershing II's so be. If this means converting the GM plant in Janesville to tanks even better.
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This attack was well planned and well run, not your typical Russian/Soviet plan. This was very preplanned. The average Soviet force didn't have the fuel or ammo to conduct a mission like this. We have 2 choice. Stand up to them now or see friend after friend fall to the Iron Curtain again. Whose next? Estonia? Poland? Ukraine? There's a time for a strong response. I'd say moving to a DEF CON 2 would be prudent. When dealing with a bear, sometimes you only need to look bigger or badder to make your point.-
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jovial1 year, 3 months ago
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http://russiatoday.com/news/news/28951/video
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The situation in South Ossetia as reported by Russia today -
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HannibalBarca1 year, 3 months ago
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Right you are; Gen Motors is in financial woes, but hey a war and tank production here can do the same as Iraq did for Boeing right.
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Always the war machine thinking, big business luvs ya.
My question to you, will a bully stand up to a bear? -
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Spadecaller1 year, 3 months ago
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Russia is behaving like the U.S. They want the petro dollars and control of the oil pipe line. The Bush administration, just like Putin, wanted to invade Iraq for its oil. Kind of hypocritical for Bush to admonish Putin. In fact, Putin could not possibly take him seriously. The hypocrisy is so glaring it's laughable.
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With a finite oil supply that is dwindling and as China's population begins to catch up with the west in terms of comsuming oil, the entire world is in a frenzy over who will gain control of the remaining oil resources.
Easy for us to point the finger at Russia. We will soon enough be pointing the finger at China for the same reasons, as if the rest of the world is not presently viewing the U.S. as invaders and aggressors, as well.
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