Freedom Through Militarism: Does the US Military Actually Protect Liberty? »
Posted By populist 10 months, 4 weeks ago in NewsLiberty is not a child of militarism. The liberty of a people in any society, a rarity to be sure, is dependent on the character of the free members of that society; and therefore, for there to be liberty in society anywhere, its members, individually, must be free.
Liberty sought by use of bombs and other instruments of terror is liberty sought in vain. If found, it is fleeting and only for a special class.
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
Like the author says later in the article, this is probably not a popular position, but I think he makes some very valid points as to how the military and militarism have been actually undermining our freedoms rather than protecting them.
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The big question, though, is this - if true, is this due to policy, or is it inherent in the nature of armies?-
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BravoSierra10 months, 4 weeks ago
There have been perhaps more military minds arguing against the militant policies of the Bush administration than there have been civilian minds. As a former military officer I can absolutely tell you that the key to liberty is an educated populace allowed and that demands the ability to think and speak freely. it is no accident that the founding fathers of the United States put the freedom of speech as the first of all rules. It is also no accident that their legal case and evidence for a just revolution listed multiple crimes under international law that were being committed by the British Army and governance of the British East India Company. In neither case was it the nature of the army to do this. It was in the failed fascist and anti-democratic policies of corporate brigands who placed corporate profits above the public good, who bought off members of Parlaiment and who misused the army; and, due to the failure of the military to refuse illegal orders. We've just seen this happen over the past 8 years in the US.
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donald5110 months, 4 weeks ago
No president has so politicized all aspects of governemt as Dumya with Cheney and Rove advising/mandating! Then Dumya calling a war a "CRUSADE". It started with the outing of Gen Shinsheki and resulted in Air Force Joint Chief head Meyers (sp?) saying to accept the Bush torture. Then add Dumya making a war czar and putting an admiral in charge of two ground wars and you just have more examples of poor leadership from the Bushies altogether! The military, especially its leadership, is only as principled as the administration!
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Clinton did not do this level of damage to our military - the repugs still haven't even thrown out his don't ask, don't tell! The repugs did kill Paladin and Commanche though, and Rummy had treatened to cut two active duty Army Divisions before 911!
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
Here's what James Madison had to say on the issue:
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"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. "
"In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.... [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and ... degeneracy of manners and of morals.... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."-
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BravoSierra10 months, 4 weeks ago
Absolutely. And the US is headed into an era of perpetual warfare by declaring EVERYTHING a war...war against terror, war against drugs, war against this and that... It's being done for corporate power and profits just as it was used by the British East India company to further their power and profits at the expense of England. Go read up on it...Bush may as well be the CEO of the British East India Company selling the Citizens of the US out to create a perpetual state of war for the purpose of securing corporate profits rather than the good of the nation.
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Please to read the history of the root causes of the American Revolution and you will find that what our leadership is doing today is what cost the Crown the American Colonies. It will cost us allies and resources in the world and it will cost us our personal liberties and standard of living as we become foot soldiers and cannon fodder for the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us against as he left office. -
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splitrch10 months, 4 weeks ago
I can't believe anyone but a cretin would neg you for quoting Madison in this regard. Too bad we don't have the ability to know who votes on comments and how they voted anymore. (Thanks Propeller)
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sumptuousdigs10 months, 4 weeks ago
"Under every government the [last] resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people ... entrust the defense of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the wealthiest citizens."
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--Quote by an anonymous framer of the US Constitution, sourced from Independent Gazetteer, January 29, 1791
From the article.-
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BravoSierra10 months, 4 weeks ago
We seem to have made that mistake in privatizing our military and turning them into either bands of mercenaries like Blackwater who have conflicts of interest or soldiers bitter that are being misused.
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This Administration has made nearly every mistake that could destroy our country that could have been made. I can only conclude they were not mistakes in the first place but that it has been the intention of the corporate powers that own Bush and this Administration to rob our citizens of their rights and privatize control of our form of government to a fascist elite that considers itself wiser than the founders fathers of our nation and authors of the Declaration of Independence and of the Constitution.
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Charlson10 months, 4 weeks ago
I was raised in a military environment for the formative years of my life. My father was a career soldier in the Army. I actually consider West Point instead of a regular university and my father had procured the attention of his state representative for an appointment. But I refused because I had other career goals. I only say this because I want others to understand that I have always had the utmost respect for my father and his profession. What this article says about the rights of individuals which are almost always undermined by the strict code of military conduct is true. And a military that becomes politicized can become the sword that cuts democracy's throat. So we must be diligent in assuring that does not happen and the military is accountable to our civilian government.
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
Charlson, that's really an excellent perspective. There's obviously a big need for defense. But, sadly, the way I see it is that the US military is rarely used for defense - instead it eats up a large chunk of our national wealth, stirs up hatred against our country, and in the end, we're less safe, and less free.
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rightfromwrong10 months, 4 weeks ago
what is killing the USA of it's freedom is the apathy that the general public has towards an illegal and contrived war. The pathetic elected officials who are just self-serving and do whatever the fascist corporations want. The USA is a right-off as far as having freedoms. It is all an illusion!!!
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DoctorTruth10 months, 4 weeks ago
It is very easy to say that a war is illegal and contrived, from the safety of the Monday morning armchair. The war was sanctioned by the BIPARTISAN vote of Congress, with the most-noteworthy support of Hillary Clinton and John Kerry,et al.
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The decision for military intervention was based upon all the information available at the time This intelligence was based on Intelligence from virtually every intelligence agency; in fact, the only countries that objected to military intervention AFTER 17 U.N RESOLUTIONS WERE IGNORED, were countries known to have huge financial dealings with Saddam Hussein at that time; France, Germany, and Russia. The U.N., being spinelss, toothless, and severely corrupted could do nothing. Based upon intelligence understood as FACTby the likes of Bill Clinton's administration, and continued through the 9-11 disaster and thereafter, the Bush Administration made a judgement call based upon the REALITY that existed at that time (judging events only by the reality of the time is the only fair way to sanely assess events). Incidentally, doesn't it seem odd to anyone that the Iraqi leadership had over a year, and the assistance of those who would be later SEARCHING for WMDs, to potentially eliminate all signs of WMDs; it's like letting the Stanley Kaplan people administer the SATs, while they're prepping people for it. But no matter, people see what they want to see, and they find a way (and materials to support) whatever they wantt to believe. It's easy to believe the gov't is always up to something sinister, because we've been marinading in the swill that CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, and the NY Times wants us in for several generations.
It's as true for the world as it was for the sandbox; pacifism and perceived weakness are invitations to bullies. No war ever started because we were too strong.
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berkeley10 months, 4 weeks ago
the best books on the consequences of militarism are the trilogy by chalmers johnson: blowback, the sorrows of empire, and nemesis.
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if you think this is a new issue, go back and find "war is a racket" by smedley butler. he was the marine corps general who saw how his troops were being used for corporate gain in the early part of the 20th century.-
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
I think you're right. I've read all three and they're excellent. Another really good one is Andrew Bacevich's "The New American Militarism: How Americans are Seduced by War"
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TheRealizer10 months, 4 weeks ago
The partition of Europe at the end of WW2 was designed for the benefit of the military industrial complex. It enabled the two primary forces in the world to maintain a state of military readiness for 50 years, greatly enriching the coffers of those suppliers.
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Nothing will change until control of the purse strings are monitored by peacemakes rather than sabre rattlers......-
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
That's an interesting point, Realizer. I've often thought that WWII lead to something like this, and have actually just recently begun reading a pretty interesting book : "Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War"
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ConsAreNonGrata10 months, 4 weeks ago
I mentioned Tocqueville down below. He predicted that the United States and Russia would partition the world.
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The United States would subdue nature and bring freedom.
Russia would subdue man and bring slavery.
Are we on to the next epoch beyond the division?
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jordan1110 months, 4 weeks ago
Liberty comes from an interested public active in civics.>>>>
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When the public has been inundated with the shenanigans of the neocon movement, which sets the dialogue through the media, bombards people with fear of their fellow Americans (gays, liberals, progressives, etc), & there is no counter voice, It's rather difficult to engage oneself in civics. Many people are too busy being in the despair caused by one voice. -
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not2needy10 months, 4 weeks ago
What a shame that our govt uses our military to make the rich richer, which is what it basically boils down to.
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Natureboy10 months, 4 weeks ago
One of the troubling but yet unspoken aspects of militarism is the mental and emotional consequences for those who participate. Bootcamp brainwashing followed by four years in an atmosphere of complete authoritarianism tends to produce people who, even years after having left the military, often appear unable to question authority, let alone disobey it when conscience dictates.
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fsev4110 months, 4 weeks ago
I've mentioned before about the militaristic attitude that you can see in a number of regular prop posters who admit to or brag about their military background. Though not 100% true they do tend to be more bellicose and to support republicans. Mr McCain has that attitude and that concerns me.
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automan90910 months, 4 weeks ago
If Obama has these same views that you libs are taking he will be eaten alive at the debates.
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I haven't seen sooo many anti-Americans in one place since Obama threw his long time friends Ayres, Wright, Pflagher, and Farakahan under the bus with Grandma.
That's ok though. Us Right Wingers will keep America free weather you like it that way or not.-
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quackpot10 months, 4 weeks ago
Please get a beer and chips then return to your reruns of the Joe McCarthy hearings, automan
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splitrch10 months, 4 weeks ago
From Automan:
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"If Obama has these same views that you libs are taking he will be eaten alive at the debates.
I haven't seen sooo many anti-Americans in one place since Obama threw his long time friends Ayres, Wright, Pflagher, and Farakahan under the bus with Grandma.
That's ok though. Us Right Wingers will keep America free weather you like it that way or not."
I think you right wingers should learn how to spell before making such grandiose pronouncements. Your 3rd grade mentality is matched by your 3rd grade education. -
ML2007Comment removed: User banned.
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populist10 months, 4 weeks ago
Now that's a Great example of just what the author's talking about.
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Thank you! -
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rimbaud10 months, 4 weeks ago
"Your grandchildren will live under Communism!" -- Nikita Khrushchev, 1959
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http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa102497.htm -
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quackpot10 months, 4 weeks ago
You be looking in the wrong direction for the enemy, ihoward.
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Check out the state of the U.S. Army that the Commander in Chief has stretched too thin in his quest for Iraq oil.
Check out the state of the weapons that the Army needs which have been put on hols while the Commander in Chief gives more profits to those making Star Wars Fiascos.
Check out the state of the economy that the Commander in Chief has rape, pillaged and plundered inorder to provide more for his Arms manufacturing friends
Check out the state of the Bill of Rights that the Commander in Chief has torn up under the guise of let no call go untouched. -
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bigG10 months, 4 weeks ago
They also have a name for people like you.
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Sheeple.
If the U.S. and our "freedoms" were truly threatened it will be people like the ones on this thread that will win the war, not people like you.
You are cordially invited to visit your local recruiter and go fight in Iraq so some already wealthy mofo can buy a bigger yacht.
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CORVIDIVS10 months, 4 weeks ago
... i think an undercurrent of liquidity is the determining influence whether or not freedom will prevail.Where there is at least an appearance of division of wealth,freedom's expenses are not viewed as exorbitant... Modern serfdom is credit cards and affordable travel at least to & from work,cd players,expensive lawyers {for only the richer} as the warlords find newer,better ways to justify their role...
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lhoward91410 months, 4 weeks ago
I guess France and the rest of Western Europe magically freed themselves in 1944/45. along with all the nations in Asia and the Pacific.
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This did not occur because their people desired it, or even demanded it. It occured because the citizens of this country made a choice to become Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, and Marines and chose to stand up and fight for
You are the same people who will stand up and say that Iraqi's chose a totalitarian state ran by a dictator and castigate the US for interfering with that choice. And you believe it. You believe that people can choose dictators.
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markmawn210 months, 4 weeks ago
WHat you are asking of people is to think, or self-evaluate a common thought pattern. If you are to follow through with the concept down to a laser fine point, you would arrive at the very core of something called creature fear. If you were to ask an insomniac to explain why they cannot sleep, they cannot answer. They will provide many answers that circle the core, but they will never enter the core, at least alone. If you trace any fear to its source, the closer you get to it, the scarier it gets. It is more comfortable to stay outside and follow the crowd. However, if you are the true warrior in search of truth and meaning in all things, you will realize that the Core is your salvation. And once there, you see through the societal illusions and assumptions and understand how meaningless and senseless they are.
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Acceptance should not be an easy road. It must be an explored and evaluated road so it is safe for ALL to follow. -
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sanyi_oradea10 months, 4 weeks ago
Obviously Bush had been out to lunch for a very long time, and someone in the Kremlin is just coming back , after a long vacation... probably lost his/her virginity.
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I will never trust anyone in politics again, or perhaps simply anyone, period.
As far as the TV commentators stating that this is not 1968, the problem with them is, that they don't see themselves in the mirror, they are tottaly under some sort of spell or control, my blood pressure is going up when I hear them commenting, the world idiots indeed fits them. -
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donald5110 months, 4 weeks ago
Remember that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) was written by Repugs just after WW2 to allow the military chain of command to name the judge and conduct trials totally within itself to protect itself! For example... how many convictions for the greatest killer of US soldiers on the battlefield... fratricide by the Air Force? NOne! The Abu Ghraib soldiers tried at Fort Hood were told by the judge at the start of the trial that their chain of command would not be available to testify - so no links up to Dumya's torture memos or Rummy's direct involvement in torture at Gitmo!
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donald5110 months, 4 weeks ago
Hey, first president in history to cut taxes while at war... go figure! You'd think the rich would want to pay more to say they are doing something while other fine young Americans are dying and being maimed... other than war profiteeering where the Bushies let them!
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