This is a tale of US expansion not Russian aggression »
Posted By Neophile 1 year, 4 months ago in NewsWar in the Caucasus is as much the product of an American imperial drive as local conflicts. It's likely to be a taste of things to come.
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AnteUp1 year, 4 months ago
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........and China and India................that's like an ,"Oh woe is US(A)" kind of scenario.
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But we've done so much for them - that would never happen?
They're our friends............................R-i-i-ight!
All the friendship money can buy! Until it doesn't.
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Bonded1 year, 4 months ago
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It isn’t American encroachment that is the problem; it is anti-Russian systems that frighten the Old Guard such as democratic movements in Czechoslovakia and Islamic movements in Afghanistan. Russia has a long history of being weak against foreign invaders and their influence and she doesn’t want to make that mistake again. Thing is though, she has been invaded in over sixty years but has participated in her own share of invasions. The buffer zone theory may have worked after WWII, but nobody is buying this argument now.
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She isn’t willing to let go of any territory (Chechnya) and appears willing to grab back former territories in an effort to consolidate power and economic assets (oil pipelines in Georgia). These events are going to happen regardless of US activities in the region. She stood toe to toe with the US in the Cold War; do you really think she is afraid of it now?
Russia has more assets to work with now than under the old communist regime and too much of the old entrenched guard and philosophy remains. You have an enriched political class that wants to remain in power. The political class has learned a valuable economic lesson from watching the Chinese. This is what is happening, Russia is trying to pursue the Communist model in China; a rigid authoritarian government coupled with the economic engine of capitalism.
When the Chinese invade Taiwan, it won’t be because of an American presence there (although it might be prompted by a lack of it), it will be because of what they learn from the Russian actions and world reactions to the events in Georgia.-
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gamahuche1 year, 4 months ago
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Your argument is basically sound, however you seriously undermine it by referring to Czechoslovakia.
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The Czech Republic & Slovak Republic are two independent sovereign nations who divorced each other over 15 years ago - against the wishes of the people of both entities.
The role played by the US in that manouevre is, at best, shadowy. However the most influential Czech party politician at the time was the pro-US (and VERY well paid for it} Vaclav Klaus - now alas, the Czech President - while the Slovak strong man/ex-Communist apparatchik Prime Minister was Vladimir Meciar.
This split was highly unpopular with the people of both countries - over 70% against in the CR, 60% in Slovakia [the difference being that the Slovaks had always felt like the poor relations in the previous partnership, though the Slovak, Alexander Dubcek, had been a popular Czechoslovak President who, alas, was brought down by the Russian invasion of 1968.}
The current imbroglio regarding the missile protection radar (Cz. Rep} and the battery of rockets{Poland}, together defined as the Missile Shield - to be established as protection for the US and SOME European countries (though NOT the HOST countries) and allegedly to protect against "rogue" Arab states, e.g. Iran, is an extreme provocation against Moscow, impinging on its previous "sphere of influence" and, in any case, will be rather illogically situated geographically in relation to the currently non-existent Iranian threat.
A glance at a world will indicate all the other potential locations on a flight-path between the Middle East and the US and Europe, come to that. Which makes the Russian "anxiety" at least logical.
The Bush regime's total failure to understand the Russians for almost a decade {Pooty-poot to describe a KGB hard man, for openers) and the concept that you're going to twist the Russian bear's tail with impunity - in former Yugoslavia, for example - is, and always has been a non starter.
Re OUR recently restored and not-so-perfect democracy in the Czech Republic, a country with a highly intelligent and very well informed public opinion - we know that South America and the USA are politically separate entities, for example, and can even point to Cuba on the map - public opinion is over 60%, and growing, AGAINST the missile shield radar which is planned to be located here. I'm not current with Polish figures for their part of the deal but I imagine they are not much different.
Welcome back to the Cold War, folks - in a MUCH more dangerous climate, provoked by the most ignorant US President in living memory. Look forward to a very bumpy ride - and be aware that the Russians control ample oil and gas reserves for their own needs, which is a very strong prop to their side.
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femalto1 year, 4 months ago
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Bonded, I couldn't have said it better. It amazes me how many American people hate their country and want to blame the world's ails on her. No one country is in control, and though America is a strong country, I would love to live there for the freedoms it brings to its citizens. Those Angry Americans should move to Russia and work with Putin and his allies. Let them try to do in Russia what they can get away with in America. They have a lot given to them, yet they are still angry. Such a group of spoiled children.
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skeek1 year, 4 months ago
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Or Georgia for that matter. The Georgian military is armed, funded, trained and even uniformed by your country. If I were to call Georgia a US puppet it would be an overstatement. It is a mere pawn; disposable bait on a hook to provoke and draw out Russia. It's no coincidence that within days of this crisis Poland, which has spent months stalling, finally signed the contract allowing America's missile defense shield on Russia's border; a supposed deterrent for rogue Middle Eastern states (read Iran) but one that Russia has rightfully interpreted as meant for them.
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I'm surprised to see that this article has made it to the front page of Propeller when America has been busily re-writing history as it happens. The most inconvenient of truths it seeks to erase being Georgia's invasion and ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia which started this whole crisis.
Please watch this interview with a 12 year old American Ossetian girl who was in a restaurant in South Ossetia at the time Georgian bombs first fell during their invasion. Barely moments into the interview, once she and her aunt rest blame on Georgia, Fox News quickly cuts to a commercial break; evidence that your news media is nothing more than a misinformation service of, and propaganda arm for, your empire.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/16/youtube-12-year-old-ossetian-girl-tells-the-truth-about-georgia/
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lum-chate1 year, 4 months ago
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This Mikheil Saakashvili might be the most laughable leader of a so-called country in recent history. All he utters is the democracies of the world have to stand with him, the Russians are up to their usual tricks ranting about tactics of 40 years ago in the Prague Spring. He never stops ranting, can't be interupted. The same thing over & over again carrying on like a histerical women. Anyone who wants an ally like this sophmoric fool ought to have their head examined!
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skeek1 year, 4 months ago
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I believe America has played him for a fool, and he is. Whether he has woken up to this fact is another matter. His recent meeting with Rice was, in all likelihood, just to get their stories straight -- blame Russia, play victim, don't talk about Ossetia in much the same way the US media is doing as we speak. Her presence was like that of executive management from head office when a branch manager has screwed up.
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He decries Russia for deploying troops to the region prior to this crisis yet neglects to mention that he has applied for NATO membership for Georgia and has had his country in bed with the US and its military for a long time now; more than enough reason for Russia to be wary of him. He cannot logically explain why he should attack the autonomously governed South Ossetia when he is so aware of Russia's military presence and what retaliation that would attract, which it inevitably did. He also neglects to mention that he ordered the invasion of South Ossetia and Georgia's subsequent war crimes against the South Ossetians only hours after signing a ceasefire agreement that was supposed to bring an end to sporadic attacks in the week prior. This man is lying through his teeth, but then, he's taking all his cues from Washington.
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nikkibabe1 year, 4 months ago
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Quote:
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"We are in Iraq because Saddam invaded Kuwait..".
So, you think this required Bush to invade Iraq, destroy the country, kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, over 2 millions displaced and another 2 million refugees who have fled to Syria & Iran?
Not to be out done, it also required Bush to capture Iraqis, put them in Abu Ghraib and torture them?
I get a kick out of that Manipulator in Chief, faced Rice when she "orders" Russia out of Georgia while she has her A$$ parked in Iraq!!!! -
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Mdiar1 year, 4 months ago
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No one has yet explained to me why Russia had the right to move into Georgia proper to defend South Ossetia. Also, a military campaign like Russia launched required logistics and planning. This wasn't just thrown together in response to Georgian aggression. Either Russia knew of the invasion beforehand or Russia was just waiting for an excuse, any excuse, to take Georgia. Take your pick folks. No good guys in this situation other then South Ossetia... Russia's actions stink, the actions of the United States were incompetent under Bush and Georgia's actions stink.
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This is a tale of both US expansion and Russian aggression.-
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AnteUp1 year, 4 months ago
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Mdiar ~
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My understanding was that Russia,South Ossetia and Georgia were
authorized to have Peace Keepers on the ground in South Ossetia -
an autonomous region since '89? - '90? With 99% of South Ossetia's
population voting to stay separate.
Anyway, wasn't one of the first provocations when Georgian troops
shot and killed Russian Peace Keepers in South Ossetia?
I'll admit, Mdiar - I am still learning about this subject - something I knew
VERY little about until last week. I'll let the masters on this thread provide
you a better answer. I'd appreciate the opportunity to learn more too.
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kossack1 year, 4 months ago
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I'm a conservative. And I like to acknowledge anything that relates to conservation. So, here's the real news.
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Russia knows how to conserve energy. America, take note.
Russia is doing in its own backyard what usually takes America half way around the globe to accomplish: protecting its borders and interests. Russia is giving America a free lesson in the conservation of energy.
Go Russia!
Did I just say that? My bad. I keep forgetting only America has a right to exercise its sphere of influence. Which, by the way, is everywhere. Especially where there is oil and if its not in its own backyard.
But, hey, America is the good guy. Right? It can't help it. It is duty bound to help out other good guys wherever they are. Like Georgia. Georgia, who never did anything to anybody, ever. Especially after 12 midnight. While everyone is sleeping.
This 'crisis' should make America feel good. Its again another opportunity to stick up for the oppressed. You know, the way they did for that nice guy in Iran. The Shah. Who cares about Abhazia and South Ossetia and their natural advance to be independent.
Could it be Russia is picking up where America left off?
I remember when self-determination was a vital component of 20th century democratic ideology. It served America so well in foreign politics. For the last 50 years it was a successful underpinning to America's freedom to, among other things, monopolize self-serving global economic welfare, editorialize human rights abroad, exert powerful preemptive strikes and other leaps of various foreign intervention. Solicited and unsolicited.
Maybe that's why Russia isn't installing missiles in Cuba and pointing them at the U.S. ? You know, the way NATO already plans setting them up along the Polish border aimed at big bad Russia. America just wont stand for it.
No room for you Russia. America hates competition. Especially when it comes to orchestrating a cold war.
(Lest you think I'm ungrateful to America, I thank America for allowing me to write this here in the States . . . where its safe.)
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