McCain's "Cross in the Dirt" story stolen from Solzhenitsyn »
Posted By ameliog 10 months, 3 weeks ago in News
It just sounded so fake and so contrived, so I did a little research about it. Someone on here said it sounded like a scene from Ben-Hur, so I did a google search about Ben-Hur and cross in the sand and such. No dice. But I searched around a little bit more and here is what I found. A story about Alexander Solzhenitsyn from his times in the Soviet Gulags.
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ameliog
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the ...
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fsev4110 months, 3 weeks ago
Thanks Ameliog, great find. Lets get it up to the front page and see what AG and the group have to say.
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bruhaha10 months, 3 weeks ago
They'd just say that Obama borrowed from that other guy's speech (even if he had permission to do so) and that it doesn't matter anyway because Obama's a muslim, the anti-christ, and/or he has a fake birth certificate.
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sspsllcComment removed: Spam
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
ROTFLMAO
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There are two symbols that Christians use to secretly let someone know they are a Christian. In Roman times the symbol was a fish. The word fish in Greek made an acronym of a phrase describing Jesus. Today you can see that on cars etc.
The more modern symbol is the cross. How else in an area where people can be killed for being Christian could you have a guard let a prisoner know. Both countries were at the time communist and Christians were "reeducated" or killed.
The commonality of the stories only reinforces that they are probably true. Only the symbol and no words that could be overheard.
Do you people think before you rant? Of course not. -
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bigurn10 months, 3 weeks ago
I'd say this:
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FWIW, the story appears in McCain's 1999 "Faith Of My Fathers", although I have no idea whether McCain told it earlier. This would have been shortly after Solzhenitsyn's book came out. What are the odds that McCain read the book, stole the story, and inserted in his own book for *no gain whatsoever*?
And this: what are the odds that two people in the same century drew a cross in the ground? Gosh, hundreds of millions of Christians. Millions of interactions with other cultures. Yep, sounds fishy that anyone would draw a cross in the earth. Except that literature is full of stories like this; drawing crosses in the ground appears to be more common than anyone thinks.
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smithichie10 months, 3 weeks ago
Wow, this could prove devastating if true.
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At least one of McCain's captors have come forward, where is this Christian guard who supposedly gave McCain such strength? I would think McCain would have perhaps sought such an individual out on one of his trips to Vietnam as a Senator. If McCain's campaign can find former captors willing to vote for McCain, surely finding this Christian guard can be done.-
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Charlson10 months, 3 weeks ago
McCain hates gooks, his words, not mine.
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"The use of a racist slur can't be acceptable for any national leader, regardless of his background," said Diane Chin, executive director of the San Francisco-based Chinese for Affirmative Action. "For someone running for president not to recognize the power of words is a problem."
This word is to asian-Americans tantamount to using the N word. -
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jordan1110 months, 3 weeks ago
Wow, this could prove devastating if true.>>>>
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Solzhenitsyn's having written the story is fact, and the 'cross in the dirt' bit was written before John McCain made it 'his' story. What are the odds? -
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ameliog10 months, 3 weeks ago
I'm not sure if he lifted this from Solzhenitsyn when he told his inspirational story at the Saddleback Forum last night. The article suggests this could be the case, but at this point it's still just a matter of conjecture. At the time he said it, something sounded very familiar about the tale, as though McCain was copying and pasting the answer. His response to the question of who he would seek advice from had a similar feel.
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ind0610 months, 3 weeks ago
I find it hard to believe that Sen. McCain would take chances with utterly destroying his strongest suit in this election. He would have to be monumentally stupid and he is not. My guess is that this is a coincidence.
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Expect moral indignation from the right who will be aghast that politics can sink so low as to telling lies about a candidate. -
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Ratskii10 months, 3 weeks ago
Right, that would mean he reads actual literature wouldn't it? Can't be true.
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Searchbeam10 months, 2 weeks ago
It is a conjecture at this point, but looking of McPain's habit of telling lies, and also his saying something and then flatly denying it, has created a pattern that fits this event, and thus the conjecture has legs!
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Searchbeam10 months, 3 weeks ago
Telling fake stories, lying and cheating is nothing new to McPain! He has done this on a steady diet.
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His mindset is still in the cold war period when there were no instant media, and reporters showed a degree of reverence to this guy. Those days of intellectually lazy journalists may be coming to an end. The fittest will survive, and if MSM journalists have to survive in intensely competitive world, they will have to roll up their sleeves and start digging deep and dumping deference for some so-called "straight talkers".
McPain has shown his ability to lie on several occasions - especially the one about him supporting Martin Luther King, Jr. National Holiday!
Those of us who have a long memory remember his stances very well.
His mea culpa about his moral failure about his first marriage was a classic McPain moment!
As fake as a three dollar bill!-
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
The major problem is the circumstance are identical. A man held in a communist jail. Under communism Christians had to go underground or else be reeducated or killed.
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Of course you people can't understand that can you.
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mackiemesserComment removed: User banned.
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
Once again liberals can't think things through. Similar stories when the people were in identical circumstances can't happen. Has to be a lie. THINK instead of ranting about something you don't understand.
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idov10 months, 3 weeks ago
How come we are not seeing a page reference for the Gulag? There's more than one volume.
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Charlson10 months, 3 weeks ago
I don't know if this is true or not but I googled it and found other sites that says essentially the same thing.
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spkguy10 months, 3 weeks ago
WELCOME BACK. WELCOME BACK. AND I'M HERE WITH
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SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN. NOW JOHN, IN THIS NEXT SECTION WE'RE
GOING TO TALK ABOUT WORLD VIEW. AND I ACTUALLY INVITED 40
THOUSAND PEOPLE OF MY PERSONAL FRIENDS TO SEND ME THEIR
QUESTIONS AND THESE ARE HEARTLAND QUESTIONS THAT CAME IN
FROM ALL OVER AMERICA. NO MATTER HOW YOU ANSWER THEM,
SOMEBODY'S NOT GOING TO LIKE IT BECAUSE WE HAVE MANY WORLD
VIEWS, OBVIOUSLY, IN AMERICA. BUT LET'S TALK THROUGH
THESE MINE FIELDS TOGETHER. FIRST, YOU'VE MADE NO DOUBT
ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN. YOU PUBLICLY
SAY YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO
YOU AND HOW DOES FAITH WORK OUT IN YOUR LIFE ON A DAILY
BASIS? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU?
ANSWER: MEANS I'M SAVED AND FOR GIVEN AND WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE WORLD. OUR FAITH ENCOMPASSES NOT JUST THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BUT THE WORLD. CAN I TELL YOU
ANOTHER STORY REAL QUICK?
SURE.
VIETNAMESE KEPT US IN PRISON IN CONDITIONS OF
SOLITAIRY CONFINEMENT FOR TWO OR THREE TO A CELL. THEY
DID THAT BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BREAK DOWN OUR
RESISTANCE. ONE OF THE TECHNIQUES THAT THEY USED TO GET
INFORMATION WAS TO TAKE ROPES AND TIE THEM AROUND YOUR
BICEPS, PULL YOUR BICEPS BEHIND YOU, LOOP THE ROPE AROUND
YOUR HEAD, PULL YOUR HEAD DOWN BETWEEN YOUR KNEES AND
LEAVE YOU IN THAT POSITION. YOU CAN MANAGE, IT'S VERY
UNCOMFORTABLE. ONE NIGHT I WAS BEING PUNISHED IN THAT
FASHION. ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DOOR OF THE CELL OPENED, THE
GUARD CAME IN, A GUY WHO WAS JUST WHAT WE CALL A GUN
GUARD. HE JUST WALKED AROUND THE CAMP WITH A GUN ON HIS
SHOULDER. HE WENT LIKE THIS AND THEN HE LOOSENED THE
ROPES. HE CAME BACK ABOUT FOUR HOURS LATER, HE TIGHTENED
THEM UP AGAIN AND LEFT. THE FOLLOWING CHRISTMAS, BECAUSE
IT WAS CHRISTMAS DAY, WE WERE ALLOWED TO STAND OUTSIDE OF
OUR CELL FOR A FEW MINUTES, AND THOSE DAYS WE WERE NOT
ALLOWED TO SEE OR COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER ALTHOUGH WE
CERTAINLY DID. AND I WAS STANDING OUTSIDE FOR MY FEW
MINUTES, OUTSIDE MY CELL. HE CAME WALKING UP. HE STOOD
THERE FOR A MINUTE AND WITH HIS HANDLE ON THE DIRT IN THE
COURTYARD HE DREW A CROSS AND HE STOOD THERE AND A MINUTE
LATER, HE RUBBED IT OUT AND WALKED AWAY. FOR A MINUTE
THERE, THERE WAS JUST TWO CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING TOGETHER.
I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT MOMENT SO EVERY DAY.
Hey corp, If that story, to you does does not sound contrived and if for audience consumption well then your more of a right wing shill then I thought you where.
http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/ -
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bruhaha10 months, 3 weeks ago
You never complain when Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc., or even better, anonymous emails are used as sources.....
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Beau789010 months, 3 weeks ago
capecoralIM:
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Seriously. Whatever the source, it's easily verified. Check the cross in the dirt story from "The Gulag Archipelago" and McCain's words.
The source matters when the author is doing analysis, or when the article doesn't give references to anything verifiable. It's pretty easy for anyone to look up Solzhenitsyn's words and to compare them with McCain's.
I haven't noticed any change in the ratio of Daily Kos stories submitted to those from, say, Fox News or Real Clear Politics.
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AntiNeoCon10 months, 3 weeks ago
Yeah, McLame's down in florida now quacking his american hero bs at the VFW. I wish he would attend our VFW meeting so he could see some real heros. He sure knows how to play to the "bleeding hearts" doesn't he. If he wants us to forget his unfaithfulness that happened long time ago, then we should probably forget all his BS war stories too.
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Progressive10 months, 3 weeks ago
The military families are on to McCain's BS:
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/Obama_supporter_says_his...17-2008.html">http://www.timesleader.com/opinion/letters/Obama_supporter_says_his...17-2008.html -
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AOL-my-crater10 months, 3 weeks ago
That is a quote from a "Loving god" tales by Chuck Colson, firstly published in 1983. MC not guilty.
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anioklyComment removed: User banned.14 Replies
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Hobe10 months, 3 weeks ago
spkguy, in all do resp, 40 thousand friends?? I Think Not....
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Sounds like you may be in need of some serious mental health examinations, just like the War monger Nut Case John McCain....
Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran????? Will be in Iraq for 100 years, these are Jonh McCain's WORDS... McCain a 26 year corrupt politician is not fit to lead anything considering mental outlook and age. This NUt should not be able to send American Men and Women into a sencless WAR....
Vote McCain OUT OF Office and help America.... however spkguy if you want to follow this NUT, have a glass of Koolaid and follow the NUTS....-
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spkguy10 months, 3 weeks ago
Hobe Say what? Where in anything I have posted do you equate that I would support or even agree with John the Mother of all Flip Floppers McCain? Hello!!!!!
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hefaa110 months, 3 weeks ago
I saw no clear cut winner or loser. However, Obama would rather stammer than lie. McCain wrote about Alexander Solzhenitsyn's Cross in the Sand story earlier in the New York Sun newpaper. John Boy figured, "hey, this sounds good, I might as well borrow it and make it my own. Solzhenitsyn died last month so he's not going to complain". LOL Again, McCain lied about the Sand in the Cross Story. He lied in a House of God, in front of a Pastor.
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http://doubletalkexpress.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/cross-in-the-sand-john-mccain-caught-lying-in-church/
He stole the piece from Alexander Solzhenitsyn when Solzhenitsyn wrote about his stay in a Russian Gulag. First stealing the music of Jackson Browne, now the literature of Alexander Solzhenitsyn. No originality Johnney If you start using elect me and it will be "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" Neil Armstrong and NASA are really goin' be p!ssed. -
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Bradgrp10 months, 3 weeks ago
This just shows how desparate this man is. There is simply no way that such a coincidence could happen without Mccain mentioniing that it also happens to Solzhenitsyn. I've always said that "MCCAIN TRIES TO HOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HOSTAGE WITH HIS POW STATUS." A person who is truly proud of their military service does not wear it on their sleeves. Like myself, proud veterans put their service away and celebrate it when its appropriate or display it only when asked to do so. We don't answer questions about economics by referring to our military service. That's asinine!! And Mccoo-coo-cain shouldn't be doing it either. Proud veterans like myself, are not beholden to Mccains BS about his military service. His POW time was just his the luck of the draw. That's how it is and that's all it is. He needs to stop lying about it and stop using it to brandish like a loaded weapon. Its unpatriotic and dishonorable.
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cloud1510 months, 3 weeks ago
I don't know....I would think that more than one person throughout history has drawn a cross in the dirt....
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not2needy10 months, 3 weeks ago
When will any of us Libbies learn!! Will we never get it through our thick heads that anything the cons do is God like? They have the patent on Christianity, and any wrong doing is immediately forgiven, because as soon as they GET CAUGHT, they ask for God's forgiveness. Funny thing though.... they don't feel the need to ask for said forgiveness, until they are caught! hmmm
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antibrainwasher10 months, 3 weeks ago
Technically speaking, even a large Obama victory would not be a realignment. Realignments are moments when there are broad shifts in the electorate, and in 2008 there will be no significant shifts in the partisan voter preference of any demographic group. Important swing groups such as white Catholics, suburban women, Latinos, seculars, Independents and working-class whites are not likely to demonstrate any large, sudden or long-term shifts in allegiance from one party to the other. Instead, an Obama victory would simultaneously be comeuppance to a forty-year-old conservative strategy of scapegoating minorities and the realization of long-term demographic trends that finally allow those minorities collectively to achieve majority status. Relative to his national levels of support, Obama will receive pretty much the same percentage of support from virtually all demographic groups that previous, defeated Democratic nominees such as Michael Dukakis and John Kerry received. The difference will be that, in 2008, those groups will be large enough to win a national election
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