Comments for McCain's "Cross in the Dirt" story stolen from Solzhenitsyn »
Posted By ameliog 1 year, 4 months ago in NewsIt just sounded so fake and so contrived, so I did a little research about it. Someone on here said it sounded like a scene from Ben-Hur, so I did a google search about Ben-Hur and cross in the sand and such. No dice. But I searched around a little bit more and here is what I found. A story about Alexander Solzhenitsyn from his times in the Soviet Gulags.
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fsev411 year, 4 months ago
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bruhaha1 year, 4 months ago
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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ROTFLMAO
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There are two symbols that Christians use to secretly let someone know they are a Christian. In Roman times the symbol was a fish. The word fish in Greek made an acronym of a phrase describing Jesus. Today you can see that on cars etc.
The more modern symbol is the cross. How else in an area where people can be killed for being Christian could you have a guard let a prisoner know. Both countries were at the time communist and Christians were "reeducated" or killed.
The commonality of the stories only reinforces that they are probably true. Only the symbol and no words that could be overheard.
Do you people think before you rant? Of course not.-
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bigurn1 year, 4 months ago
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On the fish: Specifically it is from scripture: Jesus said "what is your task?" The reply was "We are fishermen". Jesus said "Leave your nets, for I will make you Fishers of Men".
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The elliptical fish symbol was used in Roman times. When meetings were secretly held, the first person there would draw an inverted arc. The last person (and who guarded the meeting) would draw a normal arc, connected on the left side and crossing just past midway, symbolizing the connection to the past as Fishers of Men.
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bigurn1 year, 4 months ago
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I'd say this:
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FWIW, the story appears in McCain's 1999 "Faith Of My Fathers", although I have no idea whether McCain told it earlier. This would have been shortly after Solzhenitsyn's book came out. What are the odds that McCain read the book, stole the story, and inserted in his own book for *no gain whatsoever*?
And this: what are the odds that two people in the same century drew a cross in the ground? Gosh, hundreds of millions of Christians. Millions of interactions with other cultures. Yep, sounds fishy that anyone would draw a cross in the earth. Except that literature is full of stories like this; drawing crosses in the ground appears to be more common than anyone thinks.
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smithichie1 year, 4 months ago
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Wow, this could prove devastating if true.
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At least one of McCain's captors have come forward, where is this Christian guard who supposedly gave McCain such strength? I would think McCain would have perhaps sought such an individual out on one of his trips to Vietnam as a Senator. If McCain's campaign can find former captors willing to vote for McCain, surely finding this Christian guard can be done.-
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Charlson1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain hates gooks, his words, not mine.
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"The use of a racist slur can't be acceptable for any national leader, regardless of his background," said Diane Chin, executive director of the San Francisco-based Chinese for Affirmative Action. "For someone running for president not to recognize the power of words is a problem."
This word is to asian-Americans tantamount to using the N word.-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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Consider what happened to those in that prison and what happened to McCain in particular.
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I had a friend that was in the Bataan Death March. When the company took Chinese or Japanese visitors around they would notify his boss and they would let him leave for a while with pay. He never talked about what happened but he would be incensed at just seeing them.
Why don't you poll the prisoners that were held there with McCain and see what they think. Gook might be one of the nicer words.-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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Well those who were POWs with McCain speak out against him rather clearly.
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Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.....
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html -
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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If he said it out loud and another guard heard it the guard would become a prisoner. Communist countries have always been death on Christians. Where have you been.
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A major difference in the stories is that with Alexander Solzhenitsyn the person was another prisoner. With McCain the guard also loosened his bonds for a while.
Why do the liberals ONLY look at the cross drawn it the dirt?-
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smithichie1 year, 4 months ago
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I would prefer to look at the supposed guard mentioned in McCain's story. Why hasn't he come forward? I would think McCain would have sought him out long ago and if not his campaign surely would today, wouldn't it make a great photo op?
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Assuming he actually exists that is.-
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cloud151 year, 4 months ago
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smithichie1 year, 4 months ago
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Yet we have been informed that one of McCain's former captors would vote for him today?
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If we can hear the current thoughts of one his former captors why not others? Especially someone who made such a supposed difference during McCain's confinment? Like I said, I think McCain would have looked this guy up years ago.
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protoham1 year, 4 months ago
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http://www.vets4mccain.com/
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Is a good place to look.-
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bruhaha1 year, 4 months ago
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How about here:
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http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859,00.html?wh=wh-
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bruhaha1 year, 4 months ago
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Or Here:
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http://vetsforobama.org/ -
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Beau78901 year, 4 months ago
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Here ya go:
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http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2037543/posts
"Tran Trong Duyet, who was in charge of the so-called 'Hanoi Hilton' where McCain was imprisoned for more than five years after his plane was shot down in 1967, told the British Broadcasting Corporation that he now considers McCain his 'friend' and that if he had the chance he would vote for him for president."
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ameliog1 year, 4 months ago
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I'm not sure if he lifted this from Solzhenitsyn when he told his inspirational story at the Saddleback Forum last night. The article suggests this could be the case, but at this point it's still just a matter of conjecture. At the time he said it, something sounded very familiar about the tale, as though McCain was copying and pasting the answer. His response to the question of who he would seek advice from had a similar feel.
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flyonthewallzz1 year, 4 months ago
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"A Day in the Life" is a pretty easy read.
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"The Gulag" made my eyelids heavy.
Y'all know I am a lib, but I can sure think of good reasons why McCain would read his books
Even if he read that part in the haze of recovery, and his memory of a moment was possibly clarified beyond reality.
I can easily think of better reasons not to vote for McCain, and I give him the benefit of the doubt on the story.
Whether it is "Real" or not is unimportant to me. I do believe that it is part of McCain's Reality.
I have no doubt that the mans faith and stubbornness where part of the structure that allowed him to survive his ordeal.
Even if the "Cross in the sand" is only a parable, I am not going to knock it.
Sorry: I am with Endoscopy on this one.
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quackpot1 year, 4 months ago
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From December 2007:
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x170873 -
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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Its my understanding that McCain has used the 'Cross' story prior to last night.>>>>
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Yes. It's in his book, written after Solzhenistyn's. And starting with his book,we can go to an ad he put out in December, to the Saddleback forum. It morphed from the humanity of the guard in 1999, to the 'christian faith' of the guard and 'him', to the christian faith in general. -
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ind061 year, 4 months ago
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I find it hard to believe that Sen. McCain would take chances with utterly destroying his strongest suit in this election. He would have to be monumentally stupid and he is not. My guess is that this is a coincidence.
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Expect moral indignation from the right who will be aghast that politics can sink so low as to telling lies about a candidate.-
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bruhaha1 year, 4 months ago
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Assuming he did steal from Sozhenitsyn, he's probably just assuming that the "mainstream" media won't even mention the possibility that he stole it. McCain can get away with almost anything because no one in the media bothers to question anything he says, especially when it comes to his war service.
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If it was Obama, that would be another story....yes ye would be destroying his chances at election because NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, Faux News, etc. would be all over it. -
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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My guess is that this is a coincidence. >>>>
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My guess is that john romanticized his incarceration, & found that politically it helped him. I believe with all my heart he either read Solzhenitsyn, or heard about that passage second hand.-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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The ONLY similarity in the story is the cross in the dirt when the prisoners were in a Communist prison. How else would a Christian let someone know they were a Christian? Stand up and shout it out. They would probably be helped with their speaking by trying to catch a bullet in their teeth.
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Searchbeam1 year, 4 months ago
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Telling fake stories, lying and cheating is nothing new to McPain! He has done this on a steady diet.
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His mindset is still in the cold war period when there were no instant media, and reporters showed a degree of reverence to this guy. Those days of intellectually lazy journalists may be coming to an end. The fittest will survive, and if MSM journalists have to survive in intensely competitive world, they will have to roll up their sleeves and start digging deep and dumping deference for some so-called "straight talkers".
McPain has shown his ability to lie on several occasions - especially the one about him supporting Martin Luther King, Jr. National Holiday!
Those of us who have a long memory remember his stances very well.
His mea culpa about his moral failure about his first marriage was a classic McPain moment!
As fake as a three dollar bill! -
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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Talking about yourself are you. I very rarely descend to just an ad hominem attack. Can't people posting on this story see the major differences and the similarities.
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Similarities
Person is held in a communist prison.
Communists are death on Christians.
someone draws a cross in the dirt
Differences
Solzhenitsyn - a fellow prisoner just drew the cross and nothing else
McCain - the guard unloosened his bonds for a time and later drew the cross
Considering the similarities of the prison why is it outrageous to believe a Christian behaved similarly in drawing in the dirt.-
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HannibalBarca1 year, 4 months ago
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Its not !!!!
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But at the same time, here, most ars arguing this point only because Reps say that Obama plagiarizes, and so now it must be shown that McC does the same thing.
Did any of the questions posed to both of them have any substance to them? Like the economy?, or treatment of Vets?, Housing?. ohh no it is more important to fight over a non issue.
If this is what seems important, then bring back more stories on Paris or Brittney; at least we know these are garbage.
Two men running for one of the most important offices in the world, and this is what attracts Americans????
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AntiNeoCon1 year, 4 months ago
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Yeah, McLame's down in florida now quacking his american hero bs at the VFW. I wish he would attend our VFW meeting so he could see some real heros. He sure knows how to play to the "bleeding hearts" doesn't he. If he wants us to forget his unfaithfulness that happened long time ago, then we should probably forget all his BS war stories too.
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Progressive1 year, 4 months ago
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The military families are on to McCain's BS:
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/Obama_supporter_says_his...17-2008.html">http://www.timesleader.com/opinion/letters/Obama_supporter_says_his...17-2008.html-
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Progressive1 year, 4 months ago
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Let's try this another way:
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First, Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that he honors and respects Sen. McCain’s service to our country. Second, it is Obama who has a better track record of supporting veterans’ issues. Obama is committed to creating a Department of Veterans Affairs that provides the care and benefits our nation’s veterans deserve and will allow all veterans back into the VA after a 2003 ban denied care to 1 million of them.
He also understands how important it is to improve the quality of health care in VA hospitals and will do so by fully funding them.
Obama also supported the 2008 GI Bill, a modernized GI bill to cover educational benefits for veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill, proposed by U.S. Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia, a Vietnam veteran, was opposed by McCain.
The differences between the two men on veterans issues is shown most clearly by the ratings they earn from groups such as the Disabled American Veterans and the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. Obama has consistently earned high marks, including an 80 percent rating from the Disabled American Veterans and a B+ from the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. McCain earned a 20 percent rating by the Disabled American Veterans and a D from the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.
In the end, this election is about two starkly different visions for America. McCain, who has voted with President Bush between 90 percent and 95 percent of the time, is not the “maverick” he pretends to be.
On the other hand, Obama’s policies represent a break from the last eight years. By fully supporting our veterans, by proposing a tax policy that favors the middle class and not the wealthy, by working to bring down energy costs in the short and long-term, and by working to improve health coverage for all Americans, Obama is the candidate who will best serve-
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markmawn21 year, 4 months ago
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"Obama is committed to creating a Department of Veterans Affairs that provides the care and benefits our nation’s veterans deserve and will allow all veterans back into the VA after a 2003 ban denied care to 1 million of them."
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But that would be a handout, or entitlement, which the Right viscerally disagrees with, though their rhetoric supports it.
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questionseverything1 year, 4 months ago
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thats very good question jordan...i also dont know why the msm ignores mcsame making propaganda films for our enemies
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it just boggles my mind that a traitor can be running for pres...and we r all suppose to act like we dont remember all the terrible stuff he has done-
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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I'm not going to fault McCain for giving propaganda to help the enemy. What I do fault, is him holding himself up as some sort of 'superior' veteran, over all the rest. He's no worse, and no better, and is bringing propaganda to his own country with his using a horrible experience to appear like a better American. THAT makes me sick.
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Hobe1 year, 4 months ago
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spkguy, in all do resp, 40 thousand friends?? I Think Not....
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Sounds like you may be in need of some serious mental health examinations, just like the War monger Nut Case John McCain....
Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran????? Will be in Iraq for 100 years, these are Jonh McCain's WORDS... McCain a 26 year corrupt politician is not fit to lead anything considering mental outlook and age. This NUt should not be able to send American Men and Women into a sencless WAR....
Vote McCain OUT OF Office and help America.... however spkguy if you want to follow this NUT, have a glass of Koolaid and follow the NUTS.... -
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Bradgrp1 year, 4 months ago
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This just shows how desparate this man is. There is simply no way that such a coincidence could happen without Mccain mentioniing that it also happens to Solzhenitsyn. I've always said that "MCCAIN TRIES TO HOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HOSTAGE WITH HIS POW STATUS." A person who is truly proud of their military service does not wear it on their sleeves. Like myself, proud veterans put their service away and celebrate it when its appropriate or display it only when asked to do so. We don't answer questions about economics by referring to our military service. That's asinine!! And Mccoo-coo-cain shouldn't be doing it either. Proud veterans like myself, are not beholden to Mccains BS about his military service. His POW time was just his the luck of the draw. That's how it is and that's all it is. He needs to stop lying about it and stop using it to brandish like a loaded weapon. Its unpatriotic and dishonorable.
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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When will any of us Libbies learn!! Will we never get it through our thick heads that anything the cons do is God like? They have the patent on Christianity, and any wrong doing is immediately forgiven, because as soon as they GET CAUGHT, they ask for God's forgiveness. Funny thing though.... they don't feel the need to ask for said forgiveness, until they are caught! hmmm
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antibrainwasher1 year, 4 months ago
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Technically speaking, even a large Obama victory would not be a realignment. Realignments are moments when there are broad shifts in the electorate, and in 2008 there will be no significant shifts in the partisan voter preference of any demographic group. Important swing groups such as white Catholics, suburban women, Latinos, seculars, Independents and working-class whites are not likely to demonstrate any large, sudden or long-term shifts in allegiance from one party to the other. Instead, an Obama victory would simultaneously be comeuppance to a forty-year-old conservative strategy of scapegoating minorities and the realization of long-term demographic trends that finally allow those minorities collectively to achieve majority status. Relative to his national levels of support, Obama will receive pretty much the same percentage of support from virtually all demographic groups that previous, defeated Democratic nominees such as Michael Dukakis and John Kerry received. The difference will be that, in 2008, those groups will be large enough to win a national election
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antibrainwasher1 year, 4 months ago
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White southern evangelicals conservative big oil white racist inbred morons are not the majority, hence McCain is going to lose big time. The conservative "revolution" whereby the rich get richer and the poor vote abortion is OVER.
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McSenile is going to lose, and a vote for that calcified senile military man is a vote for Cheney/Rove/Bush/ big oil.
There is no moral or intellectual or ethical reason to vote McSenile whatsoever. If you are voting that way, you are rationalizing your greed, your racism, your idiocy, you religion.
Too bad, moral majorityites. You are neither moral, or the majority. Your a bunch of washed up rednecks, inbred red state morons. Good riddance to trash.-
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cloud151 year, 4 months ago
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Yup, everyone with a differing view than you is an idiotic inbred racist. You hit the nail on the head. You do realize though that you are miles ahead of these idiotic inbred racists in only one category right? That category is intolerance, which you have in spades.
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markmawn21 year, 4 months ago
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Strike 32.
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John "Songbird" McCain made 32 propaganda films for the enemy while in captivity. All so he could get an easy ride.
"Jack Lamb, who served nine years performing secret operations in Cambodia, has revealed that not only was McCain not tortured, he was treated very well by the Viet Cong once they found out his father was an admiral. It helped that he sung like a bird about military operations in Southeast Asia, so much so that the VC nick-named him "Songbird".
He even made 32 propaganda films denouncing the U.S.
These films, according to Lamb, have since been classified by the government and sealed from public view."
McCain, like Bush, had an easy ride. Yeah, he was tortures, but why must he torture us with the lies? I say this. If you vote for him, and he goes bat-**** on us, then you deserve it! -
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Jenmc1 year, 4 months ago
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I knew I had heard it somewhere before. McPain is such a fraud!! It seems I saw something like that in a movie once, too. Mc Pain seemed a bit too prepared with his lies, and fake stories. Sounded very suspicious, to me. And what did he say about the poor? Oh, I remember....nothing! How did you like the way he detoured from the personal sin in his life question? He only lightly touched on his divorce, nothing else, no details, just a few words of regret, giving no reference to his selfish abhorrent behavior. There was no accountability or sincere repentence for his adulterous affairs and abandonment of his severely injured wife. Instead, he jumped right into the sins of our nation question! He weaseled his way out of that one real fast! What an asinine scoundrel! By the way, his last adulterous affair, before his divorce with his first wife, was with his now wife Cindy! Which means she was a participant in an adulterous affair with a married man, with children, whose wife was suffering, and undergoing surgeries for her many severe injuries! Then she went on to take a man away from his wife, and children, who had waited for their husband and father to come home from the war, and needed him to be there with them! This shows such lack of integrity and selfishness on both their parts! And this a candidate for President and a possible First Lady we are talking about! Unbelievable! So it is just fine to have a president and first lady who had come together in such a sinful and scandalous fashion? I think it is a disgrace! There is barely a mention of this in the media! The years that have since gone by does not matter. They are both so unfairly protected! If anything even near this was in Barack and Michelle's past, it would have been out there from day one, and we would never hear the end of it!!!! What a dirty shame!!!
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tbkennedy531 year, 4 months ago
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SeattleRainn1 year, 4 months ago
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First of all if you are a Christian calling Obama a Muslim, you dishonor your very own bible that says its GODS WORD. The holy bible says ANYONE can be a Christian, no matter who you are, who your parents are, what color you are, what gender etc... People are saved BY GRACE through FAITH.
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Try and remember, God doesnt need YOUR help in telling him who is Christian and who isnt.
Know your Roll.-
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epiphannyy1 year, 4 months ago
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Well, everything else he's been saying about his POW experience has been a lie so why not this too? His entire appearance on that question and answer session was lies and pandering. What's scary is that his base either is too blind or too ignorant to care and will sill support him even after this comes out. He disrespects every REAL experience that POW's had to endure by the lies he tells. This is why so many veterans have come out against him. This is why those who have been through it resent his taking advantage of the perception that he was some sort of hero. He wasn't. I know that is not the politically correct thing to say about him, but he wasn't. He traded sensitive military information to save his own skin while others around him didn't get that advantage. He's pathetic. But I have this sinking feeling that despite all of this being true, he still has a very good chance of being our next President. I certainly hope that is not the case, but as time passes, and I see his base swelling up with hatred and venom like they did against Kerry around this same time in the last election, my hope continues to fade.......
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His base tries to dismiss any challenge to his POW experience as some sort of liberal conspiracy or attack. Not true, but I can see why they say it. Doing so makes it easy to dismiss as unimportant or false. But I wonder how many of these same people would say that against the US Veteran Dispatch who wrote an article in 1999 contrasting John McCain, the son of an Admiral against two other POW's who faced court martial and dishonorable discharges because they acted in similar ways as McCain did and received medals for. Here is the link to that article:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/smith_mc.htm
Liberal conspiracy or inconvenient truth? You all decide. -
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Progressive1 year, 4 months ago
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Unfortunately, McCain and his surrogates are receiving aid from some Clinton supporters.
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-CEO_says_voters_will_cro...18-2008.html">http://www.timesleader.com/news/Ex-CEO_says_voters_will_cro...18-2008.html
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Progressive1 year, 4 months ago
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One more try:
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Carly Fiorina, the ousted chief executive officer of Hewlett-Packard, signed on with the McCain campaign 18 months ago and is one of the few surrogates who is not a politician. She did not dismiss, however, the possibility that she could hold a position in the McCain administration should the presumptive Republican nominee defeat Sen. Barack Obama in November.
“I guess it’s a possibility,” Fiorina said. “But I would be doing this anyway because I feel John McCain will make a great president. He is one of the most authentic leaders I have ever seen.”
She was forced out by the Hewlett-Packard board two years ago after months of infighting. Fiorina was scheduled to meet with several people Monday – including a few Democrats – who she says believe this election is more important than any political party.
“John McCain has stood up against his party and his president,” Fiorina said. “There is a hunger now in this country for a leader – a president – who is clearly bi-partisan, a leader who will reach across the aisle to solve problems.”
Fiorina was the guest of Jamie Brazil, a longtime friend of the Rodham family and a staunch supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton, who lost her bid for the Democratic nomination to Obama. Brazil is serving as national director of Citizens for McCain.
“It’s my goal in this position to target Independents and Democrats to vote for John McCain,” Brazil said. “First, I have a personal reason to support Sen. McCain -- my dad was a prisoner of war like McCain. Second, like Sen. Clinton, McCain has worked across the aisle to get things done and that’s what we need.”
Fiorina said she has met with many Democrats who were strong supporters of Clinton who are now supporting McCain. -
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