YouTube - Is John McCain a traitor? »
Posted By not2needy 10 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsThe impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the tru...
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not2needy
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I am a Christian, Married, Liberal, and retired social worker. One son. I enjoy my computer, gardening, reading, cooking and having a ...
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
The man that conservatives have praised as the wonderful POW, with all his vast experience is indeed a traitor. He sided with the enemy.
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.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/">http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/-
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Lurch10 months, 2 weeks ago
McCain has also voted AGAINST our troops time and again. Against funding, against armor, against equal time with their families as being fodder overseas, against VA funding five times, and he was even against the New GI bill which promises to give the troops the benefits they have dearly earned.
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He also wants to keep our troops in the danger zone for years longer than necessary for a war that never should have been waged and which we were led into based on a pack of politician lies. -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
McCain also graduated 894 out of a class of 899, even worse than Dumbya
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.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/">http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/-
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Endoscopy10 months, 2 weeks ago
Still the accusations of a stup[id Republican president. Been the same since Reagan.
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This accusation stinks the worst way. A bunch of lies.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/293/
When captured he had two broken arms, a broken leg and some broken ribs. They were just letting him lay in his cell unless he said he would cooperate. He received such good treatment he can't comb his hair to this day.
Some of the things he gave them are as follows.
When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship’s name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers’ offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.
Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.
George “Bud” Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.
“We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture,” said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. “John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic.”
At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: “I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . ”
Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain’s campaign, said the flyer is “the most outrageous f------ lie I’ve ever heard.”
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CRYMTYPHON10 months, 2 weeks ago
No.
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Sorry.
Won't go there.
This stuff about Mccain is as crapulous, as the swiftboat lies about Kerry.
And Smithichie is right; much of this was actualy done by Rove workers for Bush in 2000.
If anyone wants to spread this crap, ok; just don't pretend you are any better than Rove and company.
John W. McCain is a spoiled man with a bad temper and the conservative bent of assuming that whatever he does is not to be questioned.
He should not become president.
But he is no coward; he is no traitor, and does not deserve to be called such.
After his defeat in 2000, he sold out to the people he still despises.
That makes him weak.
Let's avoid that mistake.
Don't sell out.
Don't swiftboat.-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
CRYM your take is admirable, and i respect it. Obama will not resort to using this information, but it's still worth letting prospective voters know.
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For years i have heard about McCain's aiding the enemy in Nam, i have no doubt that he did, the things POW's faced was enough to make anyone do what ever they had to do to survive, but then he comes home and tries to kill every bill to get other POW's found.. WHY!
There are just too many questions we need answers to, and we have tried to take the high moral ground only to be beaten into the ground. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. -
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raats666210 months, 2 weeks ago
Crymtyphon I agree with you. John McCain sold his soul to the NeoCons to get the Republican Nomination, but I don't believe for a minute that he was a traitor. I would actually hope that John Kerry comes out in support of these claims like John McCain did when Bush, Rove and Company came out with the lies about Kerry in 2004.
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AnteUp10 months, 2 weeks ago
CRYMTYPHON ~
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I think McCain is WAY over-using his war experience - and I think
American's are placing WAY too much importance on war service.
We have lots of war heroes - and I am sure that most of them would
agree that their service in the military does not necessarily mean they
are Presidential material.
BUT - you can get almost any result you want from torture.
I will never fault someone for statements made in such a
situation. What a hypocrite I would be if I did - I've never been
in that situation - I don't want to be - and if I were? I have no
idea what I myself might do.
There's enough to criticize McCain for post-Vietnam. -
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tchef10 months, 2 weeks ago
I have to agree. I don't like going down this road and I really don't think that we should. Just like torture itself, if you stoop to your enemies level you become them.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: User banned.
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jovial10 months, 2 weeks ago
I visited this site on numerous occasions. There's a big coverup. I tried to post a link to the veterans against John McCain and it wouldn't work. Maybe it was a coincidence. Here's the question I have for Senator McCain.. Why Senator, did you actively fight against the POW/MIA that wanted the military records released on POW's and MIA's after the war? Why did you actively keep those records sealed forever? Second question: Why Senator, did you push so hard to normalize relations with Vietnam after the war? Third question: Why Senator, does your wife Cindy McCain have such an active interest in Vietnam? She has made frequent visits there on so called humanitarian missions. Some as recent as a few weeks ago. Was it to pay hush money to the Vietnamese guards so that they would never speak of what they know? In fact, the guard that kept you in captivity speaks very highly of you. Why, Senator? Like before it's happening all over again. The media and the citizens are too afraid to ask these tough questions, because they don't want to seem unpatriotic.
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
Exactly. I have often wondered how much it's costing John and Cindy to keep the people in Nam quiet.. Major bux is my guess.
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Radiofreeeuropa10 months, 2 weeks ago
CRYMTYPHON is right about this story originally being circulated by Rove in 2000 and should be given the same amount of credence as anything else from that piece of ****. I read an article a while back in which someone who was in the Hanoi Hilton at the same time as McCain said that many of the other prisoners did not trust him (something to do with special treatment because of his father the admiral). I'm pretty certain judging from some comments made by McCain himself (before being waterboarded by Bush and Cheney for his opposition to torture, which of course he reversed inexplicably) that he sang like a bird and told his captors whatever they wanted to know. I believe this is human nature more than anything else, He was subjected to torture and a tortured person will eventually say whatever the torturer wants them to say. He himself said this about torture and its uselessness before being corrected by Bushco. This is why the records are sealed, human as it is, a "hero" doesn't crack under pressure. (Maybe in comic books they don't, but in reality anyone would eventually give in under torture). I doubt it's anything more than that.
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I am very surprised and disappointed in McCain, I thought he was a better man than to pander to and allow the same people who swiftboated him in 2000. I thought he had some integrity. He has revealed himself to be quite a puppet and hardly a maverick. If Goldwater were still alive he'd kick his *** for selling out. -
RIChrisComment removed: User banned.19 Replies
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Eagle_Eye10 months, 2 weeks ago
Good post n2n, it is some thing the general public needs to be aware of but I am glad Obama isn't going the low road.
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miklkit10 months, 2 weeks ago
Some people say we shouldn't go there because we are better than the republicons. Ok fine. At the very least we should question why McSame was way over ranked for his position in his squadron, and why he was never promoted as a POW.
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Personally, his total contempt for veterans that he has displayed in his voting record is enough for me to believe this story. -
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Tango5710 months, 2 weeks ago
I didn't know this existed until now. To think, Obama could of used this material and didn't shows he is the better man to lead this nation.
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hefaa110 months, 2 weeks ago
John Kerry's service records were fair game to the Press and political opposition. John McCain's records are hidden and are a matter of "National Security. This is B.S. He was shot-down over forty years ago and his records are still "Classified" Come clean Johnney.
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mackiemesserComment removed: User banned.
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Will131310 months, 2 weeks ago
great post N2N and thanks for the invite.....
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I voted for him in the Florida primarys in 2000... but his sell out to the very people that smeared him leads me to believe the the man of courage is somehow still locked in solitary in Vietnam....
the type of smear tactics that were pulled on him with barely a whimper... also leads me to believe he was made "an offer he couldn't refuse".. -
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cloud1510 months, 2 weeks ago
I thought the republicans were the party of fear and smear.....but now we have the n2n calling McCain a traitor......
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Could the hypocrisy be any clearer?-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
Apparently you haven't been watching the front page very closely of late. Nearly every article on the front page for the last few weeks has been something submitted by a con smearing Obama.. You all can dish it out, but you sure can't take it can ya? You hate the truth, and resort to tabloids for your source of news to smear Libbies, then have the nerve to come here, with something that has been questionable for years, and call me a hypocrit. Call it what you want, but this is something that needed to be brought to light, for people who may not know!
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Why do i think you already knew this though?? ROFL! -
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Ratskii10 months, 2 weeks ago
Cloud,
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I get the feeling that you and some of the others that oppose Obama and democrats want to persuade them to tie their hands behind their back and hobble themselves before running a race with you. Do you really think that it's all right for the republicans to do smear campaigns, but not the dems?
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Ratskii10 months, 2 weeks ago
I admit to being a bit suspicious of this video also, given its source. However, it disgusts me the way McCain and those supporting have been brandishing his war record like a flag, after what they did to Kerry.
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AntiNeoCon10 months, 2 weeks ago
I am not supporting McCain, but honestly....I don't think the guy is a traitor. Sometimes you have to do what you do to survive, and I think that would apply to some POW's. I am not voting for him because I think he is too old, and I do not agree with his views or opinions, and partially because I do not want another republican screwing up my country. Simple as that.
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Lurch10 months, 2 weeks ago
I don`t think McCain is a traitor to his country. A lot of weak willed people have caved in under the pressure, the pain, the mental and physical torture. Look at all the bogus `intel` our forces got from torturing Iraqis and others in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.
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However, I do know that McCain is a traitor to other vets and the military. He is the worst Bush war cheerleader and he gets an F from the veterans of that war. John McHoliday could not even bother to show up for ten Bush War votes, and then when he did, he voted against the vets, the casualties, and the troops overall nearly a dozen times.
A total low-life preek. He has thrown our troops under the bus the same as he did his first wife when he found a bimbo heiress who was dumb enough to believe his BS. -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
I hope you're right, the only thing that bothers me so much is the vast number of Nam Vets who refuse to support him, and his refusal to support our vets then and now. Couple that with his having records sealed permanently and it doesn't paint a pretty picture. That's where i have my issues.
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Wolfie200710 months, 2 weeks ago
Now here's one that should be in file 13 not on the front page. N2N you've risen to a new low. This is such a load of bullsheet that no one but left wingnuts will buy into it.
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
McCain is a phony. What Vietnam POW or Vet with character would use their capture or war story in Nam as McCain has to manipulate sentiment for votes. McCain is quite obvious. Most Vietnam Vets that I know can't stomach hearing him talk about his experience as a POW.
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If we still had a free press in this country, this information would have been plastered on the front pages of all major newspapers and would have been under discussion on the major network news programs.
But the country is now run by special interests, the military industrial corporations and the oil companies, and McCain is their puppet, just like Georgie, another coward who pretends to be something he is not.
And it's characters like Bush, McCain, cheney, and Joe McCarthy types who go around calling real patriots un-American.-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks Spade. My husband is a Nam vet, not a POW, but still won't talk about it much. My brother was a Nam vet and he refused to talk about it, and drank himself to death at the ripe old age of 53. Yet here we have a POW, who talks about it ad nauseam. It serves a purpose for him, a means to an end. The end justifys the means i guess, for some.
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
Why the Senator is Not a War Hero
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.... The Cinderella quality of such imaginings provides a telling context – revealing the man and his presumptions hiding behind the mask of war hero.
In this election season, understanding the full context of presumptions is very important. My husband, also a former Vietnam Prisoner of War (1970-1973), spent time in both the "Hanoi Hilton" and a secondary camp -"Plantation Gardens" - as did John McCain who never mentions time spent in the latter. I am also the daughter of Colonel John F. O'Grady who was known to be a POW captured on the border of Laos and Vietnam in 1967 and who never returned. Like John McCain, John O'Grady was a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy (1952). John O’Grady earned 7 military commendations for heroic service including the Silver Star and two Distinguished Flying Crosses.
There were many heroes in Vietnam – and there are many freshly bloodied heroes returning from new wars started by old men - and John McCain's claim is tarnished by long forgotten historical facts that few are brave enough to proffer today for fear of vicious attack on their “patriotism”. My father’s legacy protects me from such attack and so demands that I ask the unspoken questions and remind voters of the forgotten history. When the Vietnam POWS came home in 1973, President Nixon traded a small group of them celebrity status - anointing them as "heroes" - for political support of his failed war policies. John McCain was one of the anointed heroes while others were virtually discarded in exchange for their continued support of the false Nixon plan of “peace with honor” in Vietnam.
In turn, the select POWS were introduced to very wealthy and influential members of the Republican Party, their records were elevated over other POW heroes with more compelling stories, and many difficult questions were not asked of them.
Today, some of those same POWS are employees of the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute and many others have profited greatly from their staunch affiliations within the Republican Party. ....-
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
if Mr. McCain is now intent on running on his character and his war record almost - because he has nothing else to offer - while suggesting that others do not care about their country as much as he does - then the wife and daughter of two other Vietnam heroes has a few questions for him:
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In the interest of full disclosure why do you refuse to release your Department of Defense POW debriefing?
In the interest of full disclosure why have you failed to release all military medical records including psychological studies - 1973-1993?
Why do you only reference the time spent as a prisoner in the Hanoi Hilton"?
When will you provide details about the time spent in the prison referred to as “Plantation Gardens"?
Did you ever receive any preferential or atypical treatment while a POW in any location where you were held? How soon and when did you reveal your true identity to your Vietnamese captors - did you simply give name, rank and serial number?
Has any other former Vietnam Prisoners of War or Vietnam veteran questioned the record that you claim particularly your claims of "torture"?
What was your connection to the “Peace Committee”?
Have you ever referenced the “blue files” in any speech that you have given? What are the “blue files”? Where are those files housed? Why do you not want those files released?
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Dave5910 months, 2 weeks ago
Looks like John Sidney might have scewed the pooch. Though with sealed records it will be very hard to prove.
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One way another I think the man is an ass hat of the worst sort. He has a really nasty temper and treats women like trash. To my mind he learned this early in life and has carried it through to this day. John McCain is a tired worn out old anachronism, out of time and place.
This also his last chance to shine and be the "Big Man" . The thing he could not do earlier in life. Sometime the skeletons in the closet come back to haunt. Looks like John Boy has got a few of those skeletons waking up.
His war record may be sealed but look at how he does things now. I find that past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I wouldn't vote for McSame fore dog catcher.....he probably would abuse the animals.-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
ROFL, Maybe he would have stood a better chance of shining in his earlier years if he wasn't chasing every skirt tail coming and going. But you're right, our past does come back to haunt us, and the only way to avoid that is to live right all your life. NOT SAYING I HAVE, but... I'm not running for president. HAHAHA!
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Dave5910 months, 2 weeks ago
Looks like John Sidney might have scewed the pooch. Though with sealed records it will be very hard to prove.
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One way another I think the man is an ass hat of the worst sort. He has a really nasty temper and treats women like trash. To my mind he learned this early in life and has carried it through to this day. John McCain is a tired worn out old anachronism, out of time and place.
This also his last chance to shine and be the "Big Man" . The thing he could not do earlier in life. Sometime the skeletons in the closet come back to haunt. Looks like John Boy has got a few of those skeletons waking up.
His war record may be sealed but look at how he does things now. I find that past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I wouldn't vote for McSame fore dog catcher.....he probably would abuse the animals.
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