Comments for YouTube - Is John McCain a traitor? »
Posted By not2needy 1 year, 4 months ago in NewsThe impression that McCain and the media has attempted to portray of McCain's 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam is about as far from the tru...
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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The man that conservatives have praised as the wonderful POW, with all his vast experience is indeed a traitor. He sided with the enemy.
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.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/">http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/-
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Lurch1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain has also voted AGAINST our troops time and again. Against funding, against armor, against equal time with their families as being fodder overseas, against VA funding five times, and he was even against the New GI bill which promises to give the troops the benefits they have dearly earned.
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He also wants to keep our troops in the danger zone for years longer than necessary for a war that never should have been waged and which we were led into based on a pack of politician lies.-
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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I'm surprised that you did not bring up "the cross in the dirt" story. You know, the one that we libs created to make McCain look bad. Remember, we said he stole the story from Solzhenytsin. It was just awful that 2 different fellow POW's said that McCain told them the story in 1971 which was 2 years before "Gulag Archipelago" was published in the western world. And even more awful was the fact that no one can give a page number or volume number of just where Solshenytsin wrote this story in this book of his. It's sad, N2N, that this story was just a ruse. We so wanted it to be true.
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korz531 year, 4 months ago
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politician lies are O.K.
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Remember the USS Main ( 1989 around that time,Spanish American war )[explosion of the USS Maine, and "yellow journalism" that accused Spain of extensive atrocities, agitating American public opinion.]
(It was the Cubans that hit the USS Main not the Spanish. )
The Indian treaties ;
(Lakota Indian activists secede from the US
Numerous Native American activists, including former American Indian Movement leader, Russell Means, presented a kind of declaration of independence for the Lakota Sioux on 19 December, 2007, to the United States State Department. Here’s the account of developments from Lakota Freedom, the website which seems to be an official newsource from the delegation:
Lakota Sioux Indian representatives declared sovereign nation status today in Washington D.C. following Monday’s withdrawal from all previously signed treaties with the United States Government. The withdrawal, hand delivered to Daniel Turner, Deputy Director of Public Liaison at the State Department, immediately and irrevocably ends all agreements between the Lakota Sioux Nation of Indians and the United States Government outlined in the 1851 and 1868 Treaties at Fort Laramie Wyoming.)
http://culturematters.wordpress.com/2007/12/23/lakota-indian-activists-secede-from-the-us/
The Gulf of Ton-kin resolution;
(The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was addressed by Lyndon B. Johnson as a joint resolution of the U.S. Congress passed on August 7, 1964 in direct response to a minor naval engagement known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. It is of historical significance because it gave U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson authorization, without a formal declaration of war by Congress, for the use of military force in Southeast Asia. The Johnson administration subsequently cited the resolution as legal authority for its rapid escalation of U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam conflict.[1])
[ it never happened, the incident.. ]
The Gulf War 1 . Arabia was not endangered by Iraqi ( in my opinion . )
Gulf war 2 } No Weapons OF Mass DESTRUCTION in Iraqi .
Empire needs to expand , why have the U.S. Constitution and truth get in the way!~ . War! War!~ War ! is good for the economy . by the way Ford supported the Nazis in W.W. 2---- money was made .
NO one went to jail for this lies ; so it was O.K. ..
Amoral is O.K. ; who want to be bound by morals anyway . the Boston strangler liked what he did . so do what you like. it's Okay!
[ if it feels good do it ]-
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korz531 year, 4 months ago
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http://articles.latimes.com/1998/mar/05/business/fi-25568
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dunkirk1 year, 4 months ago
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That I find to be the most reprehensible for that man. To be a vet and then since he married money (face it the guy didnt earn squat and was as big a screw up as Dumya) and as a member of Congress he's covered it seems its screw you. Not the guy you want in charge of things.
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain also graduated 894 out of a class of 899, even worse than Dumbya
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.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/">http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjo...com/-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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Still the accusations of a stup[id Republican president. Been the same since Reagan.
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This accusation stinks the worst way. A bunch of lies.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/293/
When captured he had two broken arms, a broken leg and some broken ribs. They were just letting him lay in his cell unless he said he would cooperate. He received such good treatment he can't comb his hair to this day.
Some of the things he gave them are as follows.
When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship’s name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers’ offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.
Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.
George “Bud” Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.
“We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture,” said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. “John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic.”
At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: “I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . ”
Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain’s campaign, said the flyer is “the most outrageous f------ lie I’ve ever heard.”-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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The people quoted were there with him. One was a cell mate. Go take a long walk on a short pier. Prove the statements that this story give are correct. You seem to lean towards believing them.
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I normally go with those who were there undergoing the same treatment. They say he was tortured while this story says he wasn't. All admit to giving information that they lied to the captors about.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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I more than lean, i fully believe them. His claims for hero worship has been in question for years, and if he had nothing to hide his records wouldn't be sealed forever! Think about it... If he had nothing to hide, and is indeed the hero he wants people to believe he is, then he would gladly reveal all his records, that would have made him a shoe-in, in 2000.
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As far as his cellmate, i also watched a youtube video of him. He was either a traitor as well, or Mc is paying him well for his statements. At any rate, can you prove otherwise... and that the thesis you wrote above is in all counts the absolute truth? As far as his arms being broken, that happened in his plane crash, not the result of torture. There are MANY pictures/new articles available showing him in a body cast as the result of that crash. Even Bush said that Mc wasn't tortured, and God knows you all have taken everything Bush has said directly to the bank.
McCain graduated with a D average, 894 out of 899. What is it about you all that you seem to love the dumbest people available to you? Dumbazzes and movie stars!! What's up with that? Why do you support people with an entitlement mentality rather than the cream of the crop, intelligent and truly educated rather than sliding under the radar of flunking out? I never cease to be amazed at the people conservatives will support rather than admit that there just may be an intelligent alternative to the stupidity you all have supported time after time.-
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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I'm surprised that you did not bring up "the cross in the dirt" story. You know, the one that we libs created to make McCain look bad. Remember, we said he stole the story from Solzhenytsin. It was just awful that 2 different fellow POW's said that McCain told them the story in 1971 which was 2 years before "Gulag Archipelago" was published in the western world. And even more awful was the fact that no one can give a page number or volume number of just where Solshenytsin wrote this story in this book of his. It's sad, N2N, that this story was just a ruse. We so wanted it to be true.
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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Those who were there with McCain think that he is not competent to be president.
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Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
...John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.
... he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.
... People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW. ...-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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... But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.
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... Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen...
...But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe. ...
I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate. ... I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.
I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.
It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.
...I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. ..
...So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.
... But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_2,00.html
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Dave591 year, 4 months ago
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Yes they were quoted. That's not evidence. You need to prove the statements in this story are not correct. You ask for proof? Then show me why they are not accurate. And no, simple quotations will not work. I want film or signed documents. No hear say evidence is allowed.
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In the absence of those documents I will have to entertain the idea that this just may be true. If you can make a case please show me your evidence..
So indeed the report could be true. I leave it to you to show me why it is not.
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automan9091 year, 4 months ago
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You are right endoscopy. McCain is a hero.
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You can't reason with a bunch of Commie loving Socialists though.
All they understand is how to pick losers on their ticket and lose election after election and then pick the worse Congress in American history.
Losers all around.-
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dunkirk1 year, 4 months ago
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wHY do I suspect if this was Kerry we'd see the media proclaiming him a collaborator nad traitor with the same background. Endo posts ONE set of comments from ONE person not exactly a rousing endorsement considering the number of POW's. Kerry had every member of his command saying the slime boat Republican slackers weren't telling the truth but that wasnt good enough. ROFLMAO, Republicans, a step above the primordial slime.
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Grrr1 year, 4 months ago
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Agreed. He's been trying to bury the debriefings of his fellow prisoners for decades. Something is in there. He has also been a major thorn in the side of MIA discovery efforts. Some incredibly unpatriotic and unheroic politics coming from such a 'hero'.
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automan9091 year, 4 months ago
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What was Obama a hero of.
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The racist Trintity Church?
What kind of man is he to be so un-patriotic as to have terrorists that bombed our country, and racist America haters as his long time friends and mentors?
To idolize Marxists and Communists since his teens?
To never serve his country in the Military and bash a man that gave his all for America?
He is not fit to be president and will lose like all the other losers the Dems pick
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cushi1 year, 4 months ago
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Oh, yes, he's the great pretender! He's been trading on his "POW" status since he came back from Nam, and has used it until it's practically used up! It's what has allowed him to worm his way into the running for the highest office in the land, despite his questionable character. During the Saddleback forum, nearly every single response he made was tied to his so-called POW experiences.
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And even when it's become rather questionable if he actually had some of the encounters he so melodramatically related, those who have eaten the soup are reluctant to call this "honorable" man on anything!
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smithichie1 year, 4 months ago
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I heard these rumors back in 2000, ironically by some of the same folks McCain now has working for his campaign. While Obama probably shouldn't touch this issue, questioning McCain's service shouldn't be off limits anymore than John Kerry's was.
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CRYMTYPHON1 year, 4 months ago
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No.
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Sorry.
Won't go there.
This stuff about Mccain is as crapulous, as the swiftboat lies about Kerry.
And Smithichie is right; much of this was actualy done by Rove workers for Bush in 2000.
If anyone wants to spread this crap, ok; just don't pretend you are any better than Rove and company.
John W. McCain is a spoiled man with a bad temper and the conservative bent of assuming that whatever he does is not to be questioned.
He should not become president.
But he is no coward; he is no traitor, and does not deserve to be called such.
After his defeat in 2000, he sold out to the people he still despises.
That makes him weak.
Let's avoid that mistake.
Don't sell out.
Don't swiftboat.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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CRYM your take is admirable, and i respect it. Obama will not resort to using this information, but it's still worth letting prospective voters know.
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For years i have heard about McCain's aiding the enemy in Nam, i have no doubt that he did, the things POW's faced was enough to make anyone do what ever they had to do to survive, but then he comes home and tries to kill every bill to get other POW's found.. WHY!
There are just too many questions we need answers to, and we have tried to take the high moral ground only to be beaten into the ground. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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Typical liberal. You hear it and believe it because you just want to. NO FACTS just undocumented accusations.
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Did you know that Obama is a secret Gay?
How about Obama wants to get rid of the armed forces and leave us defenseless.
I can make them up also but nobody should believe these lies either.-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain's repeated involvement in corruption (four instances so far - all bailed out at taxpayer expense ) is enough for me to reject him.
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On top of that, anyone who sends thousands of americans to live in nuclear waste dumps to pay off his rich buddies has no business as president of our country.
The ACSA challenges Senator McCain
... "The Dineh (otherwise known as Navajo) were stripped of all land title and forced to relocate. Their land was turned over to the coal companies without making any provisions to protect the burial or sacred sites that would be destroyed by the mines. People whose lives were based in their deep spiritual and life-giving relationship with the land were relocated into cities, often without compensation, forbidden to return to the land that their families had occupied for generations. People became homeless with significant increases in alcoholism, suicide, family break up, emotional abuse and death. "
-- Marsha Monestersky for the UN Commission on Human Rights and Women Enacting Change at the UN
"The forcible relocation of over 10,000 (Dineh) Navajo people is a tragedy of genocide and injustice that will be a blot on the conscience of this country for many generations."
http://www.acsa2000.net/cain2004.org/Dine-Navajo-PressRelease.htm -
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wtagg1 year, 4 months ago
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My assumption is that you feel exactly the same way concerning the swiftboating of Kerry.
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If you do not, then you are as much to blame as anyone else doing the same thing.
My guess is that you will not respond due to having to most likely contradict yourself. -
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wtagg1 year, 4 months ago
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Funny, what you describe is exactly what the Bush campaign did to McCain in the SC 2000 primary.
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Care to respond? Didn't think so.
It is a sad testament to our political process. Both sides are to blame. To accuse one without the other only demonstrates that you either do not have understanding and are a mouthpiece of talk show entertainers or you want that tactic for your side only.
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AnteUp1 year, 4 months ago
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CRYMTYPHON ~
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I think McCain is WAY over-using his war experience - and I think
American's are placing WAY too much importance on war service.
We have lots of war heroes - and I am sure that most of them would
agree that their service in the military does not necessarily mean they
are Presidential material.
BUT - you can get almost any result you want from torture.
I will never fault someone for statements made in such a
situation. What a hypocrite I would be if I did - I've never been
in that situation - I don't want to be - and if I were? I have no
idea what I myself might do.
There's enough to criticize McCain for post-Vietnam.-
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tehranchik1 year, 4 months ago
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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The situation is a little different though tehranchik. They took Kerry's voluntary service and made a mockery of it, IMO, this isn't the same thing.
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It's been questionable for many years about McCain collaborating with the enemy in Nam, and for some reason, he has had all records permanently sealed. If you have nothing to hide, why seal the records, PERMANENTLY!!??
It's Rovian style politics, and we don't have to like it. It's not the nature of most Libbies to like this kind of politics, but people deserve to know how questionable McCain's POW status is, in light of the fact that he may have sold out not only in Nam, but to big business here. Would we want this man to make it to the WH, given all we know? -
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tehranchik1 year, 4 months ago
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Did you notice the other videos while you watched this one. There were those that spoke of him as a true hero as well. As much as I despise the man---i just don't like this kind of bashing. Should he use his POW status to get elected---NO. On the other hand--he WAS a POW and I don't even want to imagine what they did to him.
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Call him on his other s__t but not on this.-
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miklkit1 year, 4 months ago
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One small fact to consider. Who else has had their military records sealed? Our current President. Mr. AWOL. Kerry's records were never sealed. Or mine. What has he got to hide? Why was he not promoted along with his fellow POWs? Inquiring minds want to know. Is this swiftboating? I'm interested in finding out the truth about this man's moral fortitude.
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AnteUp1 year, 4 months ago
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miklkit ~
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I'm very late to this thread - but just for the heck of it?
George W. Bush's gubenatorial records have been sealed,
palletized and shrink wrapped and are stored at his father's Presidential library - it complete defiance of Texas law.
Those papers from his time as Governor - belong to the state
of Texas. But accoring to John Dean, in "Worse Than Watergate",
- check out pages 56 through 58, Governor Bush did a fast one.
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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Medicine?
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I'm surprised that you did not bring up "the cross in the dirt" story. You know, the one that we libs created to make McCain look bad. Remember, we said he stole the story from Solzhenytsin. It was just awful that 2 different fellow POW's said that McCain told them the story in 1971 which was 2 years before "Gulag Archipelago" was published in the western world. And even more awful was the fact that no one can give a page number or volume number of just where Solshenytsin wrote this story in this book of his. It's sad, N2N, that this story was just a ruse. We so wanted it to be true.
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dunkirk1 year, 4 months ago
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While it isnt something to like its also fair play. The Republicans brought this issue out when they gathered a bunch of bottom feeders to slander Kerry to question his military service and downplay it against the lack of service of the Dumya, In thi sinstance it isnt inventing things to slander a candidate its telling the truth.
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tchef1 year, 4 months ago
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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Will13131 year, 4 months ago
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go learn your arguments....
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ad hominem would mean I attacked the premise based on tthe fact the PERSON PRESENTING THE ARGUMENT is flawed....
it is in fact John S McCain that is flawed... and twas YOU that did the ad hominem... not I...
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jovial1 year, 4 months ago
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I visited this site on numerous occasions. There's a big coverup. I tried to post a link to the veterans against John McCain and it wouldn't work. Maybe it was a coincidence. Here's the question I have for Senator McCain.. Why Senator, did you actively fight against the POW/MIA that wanted the military records released on POW's and MIA's after the war? Why did you actively keep those records sealed forever? Second question: Why Senator, did you push so hard to normalize relations with Vietnam after the war? Third question: Why Senator, does your wife Cindy McCain have such an active interest in Vietnam? She has made frequent visits there on so called humanitarian missions. Some as recent as a few weeks ago. Was it to pay hush money to the Vietnamese guards so that they would never speak of what they know? In fact, the guard that kept you in captivity speaks very highly of you. Why, Senator? Like before it's happening all over again. The media and the citizens are too afraid to ask these tough questions, because they don't want to seem unpatriotic.
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Will13131 year, 4 months ago
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Why Senator, did you actively fight against the POW/MIA that wanted the military records released on POW's and MIA's after the war? Why did you actively keep those records sealed forever?
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because his father was the commander that left the POW/MIA's in Vietnam...-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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"because his father was the commander that left the POW/MIA's in Vietnam..."
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No. Typical liberal rewriting the end of the war. We had won. The North Viet Nam generals said that later. Who forced us out? The hew and cry of the liberals. As part of our duty to help South Viet Nam we were to give them money to buy weapons and ammunition. Your Senator Kennedy led the charge against that bill and is to this day proud that he blocked it. That led to the killing fields and the over run of a defenseless South Viet Nam. Millions dead and Hundreds of thousands in concentration camps.
Proud of the liberal conclusion of that war? Then you try to blame the military commanders. Foolish lib. You did it and gave the North Viet Nam government no reason to live up to their promises. We turned into a paper tiger through your efforts.-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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Ah how Endo loves to kill Americans and others for his vile ideology!
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Did you cheer when cheney, wolfowitz and Rumsfeld helped kill thier first million people in Indonesia during the Ford adminstration?
Did you cheer when Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz helped kill 300,000 christians in Central America during the Reagan administration?
Did you cheer when cheney, Rumsfeld and wolfowitz helped kill over a million Iraqis?
Mass murderers always invent "good reasons" for their crimes against humanity - you are right up there with the mass murderers.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 4 months ago
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CRYMTYPHON is right about this story originally being circulated by Rove in 2000 and should be given the same amount of credence as anything else from that piece of ****. I read an article a while back in which someone who was in the Hanoi Hilton at the same time as McCain said that many of the other prisoners did not trust him (something to do with special treatment because of his father the admiral). I'm pretty certain judging from some comments made by McCain himself (before being waterboarded by Bush and Cheney for his opposition to torture, which of course he reversed inexplicably) that he sang like a bird and told his captors whatever they wanted to know. I believe this is human nature more than anything else, He was subjected to torture and a tortured person will eventually say whatever the torturer wants them to say. He himself said this about torture and its uselessness before being corrected by Bushco. This is why the records are sealed, human as it is, a "hero" doesn't crack under pressure. (Maybe in comic books they don't, but in reality anyone would eventually give in under torture). I doubt it's anything more than that.
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I am very surprised and disappointed in McCain, I thought he was a better man than to pander to and allow the same people who swiftboated him in 2000. I thought he had some integrity. He has revealed himself to be quite a puppet and hardly a maverick. If Goldwater were still alive he'd kick his *** for selling out.-
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year, 4 months ago
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That being said, Jovial asks some good questions. It may seem unpatriotic to question the man's service, yet really his claim to fame is getting shot down and captured. If you want be shot down and captured this guy has the experience you seek.
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I prefer a different scenario.-
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Endoscopy1 year, 4 months ago
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How about his after the war military record. Taking one of the largest squadrons and turning it from a mediocre one to a top level one. That takes leadership.
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When he resigned they offered to make him a rear admiral if he would stay in. They don't offer stars to just anybody.
Of course you want to ignore it because it makes him look good.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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There is more at stake here than war. Our economy is going down the tubes, we are rushing head long into a depression, and Mc thinks everything is fine with the economy. Just that thousands of people have been remiss in their house payments, and since he flies around in his wife's private jet, he is oblivious to the price of gas, but when you're worth mulit millions whats a few cents, especially if you sell out to big oil and you get yours free.
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miklkit1 year, 4 months ago
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Some people say we shouldn't go there because we are better than the republicons. Ok fine. At the very least we should question why McSame was way over ranked for his position in his squadron, and why he was never promoted as a POW.
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Personally, his total contempt for veterans that he has displayed in his voting record is enough for me to believe this story.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Absolutely.
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None of us has to like this kind of politics. However, here on Propeller, what choices have the cons given us? They use tabloids and articles written by Canadian news sources to smear Obama from birth. Like i have said before, sometimes we MUST fight fire with fire.
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Will13131 year, 4 months ago
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great post N2N and thanks for the invite.....
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I voted for him in the Florida primarys in 2000... but his sell out to the very people that smeared him leads me to believe the the man of courage is somehow still locked in solitary in Vietnam....
the type of smear tactics that were pulled on him with barely a whimper... also leads me to believe he was made "an offer he couldn't refuse".. -
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cloud151 year, 4 months ago
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Apparently you haven't been watching the front page very closely of late. Nearly every article on the front page for the last few weeks has been something submitted by a con smearing Obama.. You all can dish it out, but you sure can't take it can ya? You hate the truth, and resort to tabloids for your source of news to smear Libbies, then have the nerve to come here, with something that has been questionable for years, and call me a hypocrit. Call it what you want, but this is something that needed to be brought to light, for people who may not know!
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Why do i think you already knew this though?? ROFL!-
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cloud151 year, 4 months ago
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You can try to paint me as one of the smearers but the fact is I'm not. I've condemned articles calling Obama a Muslim, a terrorist, articles about the 57 state comment etc.
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I can't control what goes on this front page. I haven't submitted any smear articles. I haven't called Obama a Muslim. I haven't called Obama a terrorist.
If you want to condemn smears from the right then maybe you should refrain from articles like this.
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Ratskii1 year, 4 months ago
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Cloud,
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I get the feeling that you and some of the others that oppose Obama and democrats want to persuade them to tie their hands behind their back and hobble themselves before running a race with you. Do you really think that it's all right for the republicans to do smear campaigns, but not the dems?
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AntiNeoCon1 year, 4 months ago
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I am not supporting McCain, but honestly....I don't think the guy is a traitor. Sometimes you have to do what you do to survive, and I think that would apply to some POW's. I am not voting for him because I think he is too old, and I do not agree with his views or opinions, and partially because I do not want another republican screwing up my country. Simple as that.
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Lurch1 year, 4 months ago
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I don`t think McCain is a traitor to his country. A lot of weak willed people have caved in under the pressure, the pain, the mental and physical torture. Look at all the bogus `intel` our forces got from torturing Iraqis and others in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.
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However, I do know that McCain is a traitor to other vets and the military. He is the worst Bush war cheerleader and he gets an F from the veterans of that war. John McHoliday could not even bother to show up for ten Bush War votes, and then when he did, he voted against the vets, the casualties, and the troops overall nearly a dozen times.
A total low-life preek. He has thrown our troops under the bus the same as he did his first wife when he found a bimbo heiress who was dumb enough to believe his BS. -
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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I hope you're right, the only thing that bothers me so much is the vast number of Nam Vets who refuse to support him, and his refusal to support our vets then and now. Couple that with his having records sealed permanently and it doesn't paint a pretty picture. That's where i have my issues.
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Wolfie20071 year, 4 months ago
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That's really funny, N2N, I don't know any Nam vets who will be voting for him and I know a heck of a lot of them. Keep spreading you filthy lies, they won't help Obama. I wish the Obama campaign would come out with this but thank your lucky stars that even they are not stupid enough to tell lies about John McCain's record as a prisoner of war.
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Personally i don't care who you "know". My husband and the majority of the people in my family, friends and neighbors are Vietnam vets or from that era, and none of them support McLame. If you used your gray matter at all, you would realize that there's a reason for this.
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 4 months ago
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Funny Wolfie you know of Vietnam Vets here on Propeller who are very outspoken against Bush & Co. and McCain. I can name two off the bat Cowboygrandpa and Baddad. There are others that you know of here. Lets just be honest.
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I have many a Nam Vet friends here, work with them, and have talked with them. EVERY SINGLE ONE will not vote for McCain. (plus other service men and women who will not be voting for him.)
When asked about McCain - those at Stand Downs (volunteers, organizers, those participating as an agency, those I work with, and those who were there to get services) a. silence b. tried not to swear c. supported him up until 2004 when he changed his views on torture, blocked the release of MIA records (as well as info on POWS/ MIAS who are still alive). and has vetoed bills supporting vets.-
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Wolfie20071 year, 4 months ago
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ciera
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I don't know what part of the country you come from but I see a whole different picture.
I donate time driving disabled vets to doctor appoints and other places they need to go. Not all of them are vets from Nam some are from the Iraq and Afghanistan and a couple served in Korea but none of them say they will be voting for Obama. Of my three brothers who served in Nam only two are now living and neither of them will vote for Obama. I am of an age where I have many friends who served in Nam and so far they are supporting McCain.
For the rest of your comment I say bullroar.-
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 4 months ago
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Wolfie you said in your comment you didn't know any Vet, Vietnam or otherwise who wouldn't vote for Obama I named two of the Vietnam Vets I know here that aren't voting for McCain. You know of many here too. You just don't want to admit it.
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Great that you know vets that are voting. I don't agree with their choice. Just agree that they are voting.
Great that you also are giving back to your fellow vets. I do know you don't know or want to know the vets that are voting for Obama.
How dare you say, bullroar to my participating in Stand Downs and who I know.. I have participated three years in a row at Twin Cities ones, a year in a half for the St. Cloud ones, one in Mankato, twice in Duluth MN. On our Board of Directors there are Vietnam, Korean and Iraq War 1 Vets. ALL are not voting for McCain are quite vocal about it. I am glad a. to participate in Stand Downs due to my job (how many know about it? or like you deny they exist or their validity?) b. will still volunteer at Stand Downs when I'm no longer working for this non profit.
Just admit that there are vets and service personal voting for Obama. Hard as it is for me I can admit that there are people voting for McCain.
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Wolfie20071 year, 4 months ago
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Spadecaller1 year, 4 months ago
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When Wolfie states that you have "risen to a new low" it only requires a simple translation. What it actually means is that you have dared to expose a fact or two about the low-life heroes that he worships. And anyone who dares to upset his infantile fantasy world that is made up of toy soldiers and glorified dragon killers, he freaks out. What else is new?
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Spadecaller1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain is a phony. What Vietnam POW or Vet with character would use their capture or war story in Nam as McCain has to manipulate sentiment for votes. McCain is quite obvious. Most Vietnam Vets that I know can't stomach hearing him talk about his experience as a POW.
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If we still had a free press in this country, this information would have been plastered on the front pages of all major newspapers and would have been under discussion on the major network news programs.
But the country is now run by special interests, the military industrial corporations and the oil companies, and McCain is their puppet, just like Georgie, another coward who pretends to be something he is not.
And it's characters like Bush, McCain, cheney, and Joe McCarthy types who go around calling real patriots un-American.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Thanks Spade. My husband is a Nam vet, not a POW, but still won't talk about it much. My brother was a Nam vet and he refused to talk about it, and drank himself to death at the ripe old age of 53. Yet here we have a POW, who talks about it ad nauseam. It serves a purpose for him, a means to an end. The end justifys the means i guess, for some.
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Ciera-Marie1 year, 4 months ago
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n2n it serves his purposes but how does it serve his fellow Vietnam Vets and Vets period? How has he REALLY helped vets? How has he made their lives better? Without using them for a photo op, political gain, what they can do for him type of better.
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Good questions CM, and ones that i am sure Mc would stumble over if ever asked. You're so right, vets are nothing more than another venue to use in his quest. He's had everything handed to him, it's his entitlement, his right by simply being born John Sidney McCain!
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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Why the Senator is Not a War Hero
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.... The Cinderella quality of such imaginings provides a telling context – revealing the man and his presumptions hiding behind the mask of war hero.
In this election season, understanding the full context of presumptions is very important. My husband, also a former Vietnam Prisoner of War (1970-1973), spent time in both the "Hanoi Hilton" and a secondary camp -"Plantation Gardens" - as did John McCain who never mentions time spent in the latter. I am also the daughter of Colonel John F. O'Grady who was known to be a POW captured on the border of Laos and Vietnam in 1967 and who never returned. Like John McCain, John O'Grady was a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy (1952). John O’Grady earned 7 military commendations for heroic service including the Silver Star and two Distinguished Flying Crosses.
There were many heroes in Vietnam – and there are many freshly bloodied heroes returning from new wars started by old men - and John McCain's claim is tarnished by long forgotten historical facts that few are brave enough to proffer today for fear of vicious attack on their “patriotism”. My father’s legacy protects me from such attack and so demands that I ask the unspoken questions and remind voters of the forgotten history. When the Vietnam POWS came home in 1973, President Nixon traded a small group of them celebrity status - anointing them as "heroes" - for political support of his failed war policies. John McCain was one of the anointed heroes while others were virtually discarded in exchange for their continued support of the false Nixon plan of “peace with honor” in Vietnam.
In turn, the select POWS were introduced to very wealthy and influential members of the Republican Party, their records were elevated over other POW heroes with more compelling stories, and many difficult questions were not asked of them.
Today, some of those same POWS are employees of the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute and many others have profited greatly from their staunch affiliations within the Republican Party. ....-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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if Mr. McCain is now intent on running on his character and his war record almost - because he has nothing else to offer - while suggesting that others do not care about their country as much as he does - then the wife and daughter of two other Vietnam heroes has a few questions for him:
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In the interest of full disclosure why do you refuse to release your Department of Defense POW debriefing?
In the interest of full disclosure why have you failed to release all military medical records including psychological studies - 1973-1993?
Why do you only reference the time spent as a prisoner in the Hanoi Hilton"?
When will you provide details about the time spent in the prison referred to as “Plantation Gardens"?
Did you ever receive any preferential or atypical treatment while a POW in any location where you were held? How soon and when did you reveal your true identity to your Vietnamese captors - did you simply give name, rank and serial number?
Has any other former Vietnam Prisoners of War or Vietnam veteran questioned the record that you claim particularly your claims of "torture"?
What was your connection to the “Peace Committee”?
Have you ever referenced the “blue files” in any speech that you have given? What are the “blue files”? Where are those files housed? Why do you not want those files released?-
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hyperbola1 year, 4 months ago
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Have you ever lost your temper with military families who challenged your position?
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Have you ever acted in an inappropriate way or in a less than gentlemanly manner with any female spouse of any active duty military personnel member?
Why not let citizens, who know the personal and painful history better than anyone else, ask the questions? Why not let these questions prompt more thorough investigation and scrutiny and less shilling by the press? Why shouldn’t change really mean accountability as framed by ordinary people who also made an extraordinary sacrifice? The answers might provide all citizens the context needed to fully judge some less than credible claims that have aged into myths over time.
http://www.counterpunch.com/ogrady08232008.html
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Dave591 year, 4 months ago
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Looks like John Sidney might have scewed the pooch. Though with sealed records it will be very hard to prove.
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One way another I think the man is an ass hat of the worst sort. He has a really nasty temper and treats women like trash. To my mind he learned this early in life and has carried it through to this day. John McCain is a tired worn out old anachronism, out of time and place.
This also his last chance to shine and be the "Big Man" . The thing he could not do earlier in life. Sometime the skeletons in the closet come back to haunt. Looks like John Boy has got a few of those skeletons waking up.
His war record may be sealed but look at how he does things now. I find that past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I wouldn't vote for McSame fore dog catcher.....he probably would abuse the animals.-
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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ROFL, Maybe he would have stood a better chance of shining in his earlier years if he wasn't chasing every skirt tail coming and going. But you're right, our past does come back to haunt us, and the only way to avoid that is to live right all your life. NOT SAYING I HAVE, but... I'm not running for president. HAHAHA!
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Dave591 year, 4 months ago
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Looks like John Sidney might have scewed the pooch. Though with sealed records it will be very hard to prove.
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One way another I think the man is an ass hat of the worst sort. He has a really nasty temper and treats women like trash. To my mind he learned this early in life and has carried it through to this day. John McCain is a tired worn out old anachronism, out of time and place.
This also his last chance to shine and be the "Big Man" . The thing he could not do earlier in life. Sometime the skeletons in the closet come back to haunt. Looks like John Boy has got a few of those skeletons waking up.
His war record may be sealed but look at how he does things now. I find that past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I wouldn't vote for McSame fore dog catcher.....he probably would abuse the animals. -
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Goppy1 year, 4 months ago
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I realize that Christian Conservatives regularly engage in Character Assassination ... America has come to expect this .... after all .... the Christian Conservatism is ... essentially ... a Morally Vacant, Bait and Switch device to promote a hardline Political Agenda.
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So I find it very discouraging when Liberals engage in similar tactics. I don't believe Liberals should try to emulate AlphaGnosis, pc25, Endoscopy, Formidable, libsRfunny, and similar commentators.
There is PLENTY about Johnny McCain that one can point to as being unacceptable ... without accusing him as being a traitor.
When the Republican RNC employed Mainstream Media to dishonor John Kerry's service ... weren't Liberals aghast at how Morally Reprehensible this was?
Post Reagan, I've considered that reason and rationality gravitated towards Liberals and away from Conservatives. Liberals should stick with this.
I firmly believe that righteousness triumphs over viciousness and demonization. The Moral Vacancy of the Neo-Conservative Ideology is already destroying it. There's no need to emulate the Right in their own self-loathing perversion.
In short ... No ... John McCain is NOT a traitor.
He is simply a pilot that got shot down.
Then came home, began years of adultery, then abandoned his wife and children. -
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