What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians? »
Posted By Neophile 10 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsLike Iraq, Vietnam was not a noble cause. It's time we stopped letting politicians and the press perpetuate the McCain War Hero myth.
Read Full Story at alternet.org »
3403 Views Share Story 56 Comments Report
Submitted By:
Neophile
I'm a Propeller Scout so if you have any questions or concerns, send me a message and I'll be happy to help.
RSS Join the Discussion
+ Add CommentShowing 163 of 182 Comments (view all)
-
70%
chuck-the-canuck10 months, 2 weeks ago
Absolutely.
Reply
I’ve always had great respect for anyone who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for something they truly believe in. The catch is, what they believe in must be credible. If it isn’t, they aren’t heroes, they’re fools at best and if their cause is based upon lies, they are merchants of evil.-
-
-
33%
injest10 months, 2 weeks ago
“I’ve always had great respect for anyone who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for something they truly believe in. The catch is, what they believe in must be credible. If it isn’t, they aren’t heroes, they’re fools at best and if their cause is based upon lies, they are merchants of evil”
Reply
PLEASE please please tell us that hindsight is a valid criteria for what was unknown at the time! -
-
33%
DropkickaLib10 months, 2 weeks ago
Neo has fallen to a new low with this story...and that was hard to do.
Reply
-
-
67%
Harbeas10 months, 2 weeks ago
McCain was a victim of the Viernam war. He was ordered to do what he did over there. I am not a McCain supporter, however, I do agree with his comments on how we could have won that war. War should always be an absolute last resort. That being said, once you do go to war it should be to win not to prolong it for years because you have no plan to win.
Reply-
-
PsychoHosebeastComment removed: User banned.37 Replies
-
80%
Natureboy10 months, 2 weeks ago
"He was ordered to do what he did over there."
Reply
AKA the Eichmann defense.
Here's to those who refuse and resist! -
75%
donald5110 months, 2 weeks ago
Can't win a war where you can't win the "hearts and minds" of the people. And in Vietnam we also propped up a corrupt government to boot!
Reply
Free fire areas, careless killing of innocents... just like the first 4 years in Iraq... made sure we would never win this guerilla war!
Our pilots and field artillery were the worst offenders at killing innocents and turning more Vietnamese against us! Read "Soldier" or "A bright And Shining Lie"!
-
-
Mr-CrusherComment removed: User banned.13 Replies
-
Mr-CrusherComment removed: User banned.6 Replies
-
67%
skeek10 months, 2 weeks ago
"AMAZING! you libs are just too much, your still crying about wars gone bye, all wars started by....DEMOCRATS!"
Reply
Libs? Democrats? I'm sorry, I think you have me confused with Americans. Hold on to your seat but there are other people in this world who are not. That includes the Vietnamese.
As far as I and the other few billion inhabitants of this world are concerned we make no differentiation between your petty party spats. Your wars are all American as apple pie to us.-
-
Mr-CrusherComment removed: User banned.
-
-
91%
Tango5710 months, 2 weeks ago
I can only speak for myself when browsing the comment lines. Whenever I see one that starts out with You libs, dems, republicans, etc. I pass them by. Why? because I've read enough of them to know they lack content, or intellect. Why waste my time on someones rants? I want to read well thought out points of views. First and foremost we are Amercians, not party's. People vote across party lines all the time, why? Because they put America first, party second. At least I hope Americans are smart enough, which I believe in the most part they are. There will always be those who bite off their nose to spite their face.
Reply -
77%
Formidable10 months, 2 weeks ago
While I am loath to respond to anything that Neo posts, I will this time. Canada is a great country. A neighbor, a friend, a country with a rich heritage. Like any nation it has issues. Canada, the USA and the Propeller staff all suffer from having a few bad apples. In this case, an immature little person has access to authority and abuses it to besmirch a nation, its soldiers, its citizens and its dignity. This behavior denies respect for the majority of the meaningful posts from the majority of the Canadian members here at Propeller. I have, and would again, put my life on the line to defend the right of all citizens of the nations of the world to have the right to free speech. Freedom of speech is a precious right; like all things precious it should not be abused. God Bless Canada, God Bless the USA, God Bless those that serve to keep both great nations free. My hope is that rancor will give way to discussion on growing the bonds that Canada and America share. I believe that the written word has great power and I urge that certain people use their talents, ability, privilege and time to build bridges instead of destroying the vast horizons of dialogue.
Reply-
54%
Natureboy10 months, 2 weeks ago
"I have, and would again, put my life on the line to defend the right of all citizens of the nations of the world to have the right to free speech"
Reply
LOL, is THAT what we've been doing? Is that what we've done in Latin America? Is democracy burgeoning in Laos? Cambodia?
Wake up and smell the coffee. You did genocide for Uncle Sam in the interests of multinational corporations. It's really not a bragging point.
-
-
81%
Tango5710 months, 2 weeks ago
I have always held tremendous respect to anyone who gives their life for someone else. There are a multitude of reasons why people do what they do. Is McCain a hero? I don't believe being a POW automatically makes one person a hero. Since all of his records are sealed I'm inclined to believe he must be embarrassed about his behavior. National security reasons would not be an excuse since it is non-existent at this point in time. We need to push in the interest of all Americans to have these records opened. After all, we need transparency.
Reply-
alakazamComment removed: Spam
-
-
15%
lloydm6510 months, 2 weeks ago
Hello libs.nare-do-well, and america haters.You are such a putrid breath of pollution.I can understand why John McCain is not a hero to you or Michael Moore.You have your own collection of heroes The ninteen heroic american haters who gave their all to send a message to america's wimps,that we bomb the world trade center in 93, you countered with lawyers, we killed your troops in somolia,and you ran, we bomb your embassies around the world more lawyers, we even attack a US war ship absolutely nothing happened.You forced us to bring terrorism to america You must listen to us, when the powder puffs in your country take over our job will be half done.Examples.Spain now elects its leaders with our permission,Lebonon is in our control.We would appreciate it if you would keep your head in your a**, and don't try to act like men,and fight us,and for allah's sake listen to your leaders ,and lose that allah awful lapel pin.
Reply-
-
57%
silvera10 months, 2 weeks ago
I hope you're not human because you are an embarrassment to us or any other living creature, for that matter. I will have to say your barstool tirade ranks right up there with the worst, most ignorant I've seen on Propeller yet. I'm sure Alpha Gnosis is rolling on the floor...etc.
Reply
-
-
75%
CRYMTYPHON10 months, 2 weeks ago
An inability to simply and clearly state what you mean, implies you are not really sure what you mean.
Reply
Subject, verb, object, - put them together and make a sentence. Then put one or more sentences together and get a paragraph, stating your point.
You accuse anyone who disagrees with you or Bush, or any american policy or act, of hating America?
That means most americans hate america.
Are you america?
Is it your own face you see when you look at the flag?
Is it thoughts of your great nobility which thrills your heart, when you hear the star-spangled banner? Do you get choked up at the vietnam memorial because you think how noble you are?
lloydm65; it is the people who discuss what mistakes America has made, who guide it; not clowns who do a floor-show of patriotic colors.
Wrap yourself ten-layers deep in the flag; but you aint the flag. -
33%
TonyByron10 months, 2 weeks ago
Didn't China have a roll in Vietnam? I think I heard somewhere that they were extending their communist tentacles there as well as Korea and other places.
Reply
In any case the Americans were evil to get involved. Americans should never use force or threat of force to stop the forced spread of ideologies like communism. Just ask South Korea and the newly-free eastern Europeans and others.-
100%
Ratskii10 months, 2 weeks ago
If you'll check your history, the Vietnamese hated the Chinese. If the U.S. had played its cards right instead of getting so scared about a word "communism," we'd have not only saved 58,000 American and untold Vietnamese lives, but we'd have had a major ally in Southeast Asia (i.e. a united Vietnam with no reason to be hostile to us) to serve as a counter to China. W.W. Rostow and his ilk were fools or worse.
Reply
-
-
Mr-CrusherComment removed: User banned.2 Replies
-
25%
karathos10 months, 2 weeks ago
A Pawn? I take it you know nothing about the military. You do what is asked of you without questioning. Its called discipline and loyalty to ones country. Just another great comment from someone who obviously doesnt or didnt have the guts or fotitude to serve for thier country. One again i say, If you haven served or are not currently serving in the military, Then dont comment on it. Because you dont have a clue what your talking about, nor do you have the right to comment on it.
Reply-
89%
Justice4All10 months, 2 weeks ago
As long as I'm paying for this war and as long as the war mongers are trying to recruit my sons to fight this war I will speak out.
Reply
And no true American would suggest that I do not have the right to speak out. -
88%
Candida10 months, 2 weeks ago
karathos: "Just another great comment from someone who obviously doesnt or didnt have the guts or fotitude to serve for thier country."
Reply
There are many ways to serve one's country, for example by keeping it on the right track. Yes, soldiers who are sent to an unjust war to be killed in order to serve others' interests are pawns. There is no dishonor in that. The vast majority of the Vietnam veterans had no choice in the matter. The rest were mistaken, filled with patriotism and not willing to question the justification for the war.
I would be willing to fight if another nation attacked my country, but not to occupy faraway lands that have never posed any threat to it.
-
-
100%
miklkit10 months, 2 weeks ago
This is a weak article and I disagree with it. There are many factual errors in it.
Reply
That said, Ho Chi Minh came to the U. S. looking for help first. He was rebuffed and we sent arms and supplies to the French. Only then did he turn to the Russians. The Chinese and Vietnamese have been enemies for a thousand years, and were held at arms length. Look at their relationship now, for example.
In WW2 Ho was rescuing Americans. The first Americans to die in Vietnam were "Earthquake" McGoon and his copilot, shot down at Dien Binh Phu in April, 1954. -
100%
canadianrancher5710 months, 2 weeks ago
Sorry I didn't read the artical but have read most of the comments and maybe I'm sort of a different type of Canadian but When I think of Americans I try and forget about the politics of your country. McCain was in the military and when in the military you follow orders so the title of the artical is sort of lame.. One comment I will make on Americans is that if something is wrong such as a war it will eventually change course, the only problem is that those who profit from war spare no expense of supporting both liberal and conservative media as well as both parties to gain their goals. What it eventually comes down to is the American people who believe in America who make the changes to correct mistakes made by the government that they elect but do not control. My respect for the American people remains as stong as ever, for those people who believe in The American dream are the people who continue to make your country great regardless of the politics and the money behind politics.
Reply
Hopefully this came across the right way as I have been having a bit of problems lately with both speech and thought . -
78%
brettodactyl10 months, 2 weeks ago
I think it's absurd and rather unpatriotic to question the very fact of McCain being a war hero. Question what you will about his politics, how effective he would be as President, his personal life, whatever. But, the rightness or wrongness of a war itself does not reflect on whether a man heroically served his country and was willing to be tortured and die for it. I really am tiring of Michael Moore, by the way. He's so predictable.
Reply -
-
eyesopenComment removed: User banned.
-
-
58%
silvera10 months, 2 weeks ago
Actually, McCain is willing to Swiftboat or question ones patriotism on a daily basis. I feel Michael Moore posed a legitimate question that has been on my mind lately whenever McCain plays his POW/war hero card. (now that's "predictable", by the way). I remember the Vietnam War quite well. I often wondered then about those "flyboys" who carpet bombed through the clouds or napalmed or dropped Agent Orange or cluster bombs and then returned back to the base to knock back a few at the officer's club and celebrate their anonymous killing of hundreds if not thousands of innocent civilians. I certainly didn't consider them heroes then and I don't consider McCain a hero now. Was he a hero for surviving 5 years in a POW camp? We may never know since his records in that regard are sealed. His survival may have been a result of just being stubborn and hot headed or, as reported by some of his comrades, being a weasel and a squealer. We can only speculate. Besides, using the Bush, Cheney, Gonzales defenition of torture, McCain wasn't even tortured at all.
Reply -
54%
david_nwpa10 months, 2 weeks ago
McCain was not a war hero in Vietnam or any other war. He bombed civilians from 30,000 feet. He killed thousands with no remorse and did so indiscriminately. That is a war criminal, much as Johnson should have been declared. However, no one wants to admit the horrible truth that was that misguided war. I know I will catch flak for saying this, but McCain's tales that he tells on the campaign trail sound remarkably like re-written hackneyed half-truths. He is no war hero. He should not be president.
Reply-
75%
markmawn210 months, 2 weeks ago
Rarely does one get the privilege of meeting with Karma so expediently. Some have to wait a life time, or even for a next life. McCain could have built Spiritual capital with his experience. Instead he has chosen to use it as a political defense shield, therefore not learning the lesson.
Reply
I am sorry, but respect has to be earned, not given freely for a personal experience. Please stop torturing us with this masquerade, Mr. McCain. -
0%
DropkickaLib10 months, 2 weeks ago
He faced the heaviest air defenses in the world during the Vietnam War. Hanoi was a nightmare to bomb. You are a liar.
Reply
-
100%
jordan1110 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh my. This is swift boating at its worst. If people are going to 'try' McCain for following orders, then they're going to have to try tens of thousands more, along with 58,000 who died there. This is tacky. Sooooo tacky.
Reply -
60%
navythunderbolt10 months, 2 weeks ago
War is evil. Most of us tend to agree on that. However no matter how much we dislike war, war will always be a part of the human exsistence. There are few things that really bug me about people here in the US. Our sympathy goes out to the enemy, then we have the nerve to whine about why we are not winning the war. We denounce our own nation by saying we purposely kill innocent people. I have served in the military and I know for a fact we do not purposely go around shooting anything that walks. The harsh reality is war kills people. I'll add that if the tables were turned, would the enemy really care about killing innocent Americans? Did the terrorists on 9/11 target only our military bases? As for what the world thinks of America, they hate us untill they need our help. The world cries about what monsters we are. Why is giving Iraq freedom such a horrible thing? Since when is Freedon horrible.? Maybe the Uniteed States should mind its own business. We tried that in WWII, and Hitler took over most of Europe. After all Hilter's attempt at world domination and the slaughter of millions of Jews was none of our buisness. I bet the people of Europe weren't burning our flag at protest rallies when we liberated them.
Reply -
60%
danagr30110 months, 2 weeks ago
How naive...I take it you were either not yet born at the time of the Vietnam war or were still in diapers. ALL the bombs dropped in North Vietnam were aimed at military personnel, military materials or military facilities....some missed...the technology of the day. Use your own brain...don't just regurgitate what you have heard about the Vietnam war. Remember, the North had a POLICY of murdering all who opposed it; men, women and children in the South. We had some bad eggs too...no doubt...but it was NOT our policy to harm the innocent. I know, I was there, twice.
Reply -
40%
bikertrsh10 months, 2 weeks ago
zerObama is an empty-suit liberal, who will trash the stock market, ruin the economy and deprive us of affordable gasoline....yeah and we should all learn spanish so we can understand what all the illegal aliens are talking about. Joe Biden should be at the top of the ticket, then the dumpacraps might actually have someone worth voting for.
Reply -
67%
lily3166710 months, 2 weeks ago
I guess it depends on how you define heroic, serving your country when its at war. Or the Obama middle eastern way..Hijack some planes, fly them into buildings and dance in the streets later..
Reply -
50%
JoseMadre10 months, 2 weeks ago
The heroic part was staying in a POW camp when he could have left. Do your homework.
Reply
Add a Comment
Sign In With Your Propeller Account
Please keep your comments relevant to this story.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.