Comments for Palin Makes Her First Gaffe: Claims Fannie/Freddie Are Taxpayer Funded »
Posted By Neophile 1 year, 4 months ago in NewsSpeaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."
Read Full Story at huffingtonpost.com »
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busterggi1 year, 4 months ago
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Neophile1 year, 4 months ago
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Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive13 Replies
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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It's not a gaffe.
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As Fred Smith, president of the Washington, D.C-based Competitive Enterprise Institute, has noted, these financial beasts are a textbook example of “profit-side capitalism and loss-side socialism.” When things go right for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, they keep the profits. But when things go wrong, taxpayers — not just private shareholders, managers, and employees — will be on the hook.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae each receive $2.25 billion lines of credit with the U.S. Treasury. These special pipelines give the institutions an implied federal guarantee available to no other private sector competitors in the mortgage market. That protection makes them immune to the costs normally associated with riskier and riskier behavior. Moreover, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not required to pay state and local income taxes.
The two corporations receive an estimated $10 billion a year in hidden taxpayer subsidies.
Sorry lefties... keep looking. :-)-
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miklkit1 year, 4 months ago
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This isn't the first government bailout this year. And it most certainly won't be the last. Look at this graph.
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http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BOGNON...
You are right about corporate socialism. The flip side is private capitalism. Corporate america is on the dole. Private Americans are on their own. -
Tangent001Comment removed: Spam
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Tangent0011 year, 4 months ago
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There are no 'hidden subsidies'. I think what you are referring to is the laxer rules Mae and Mac play by (i.e. only having to have half as much capital backing). Those have a business VALUE of around $10 billion, but there is NO taxpayer cost.
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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When things go right for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, they keep the profits. But when things go wrong, taxpayers — not just private shareholders, managers, and employees — will be on the hook.
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In order for your point to make any sense, you whould have to say that the mortgage market is strong and profitable without forclosures endangering the financers.
The news does not bear that out. -
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bigurn1 year, 4 months ago
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Indeed. Earlier this year the U.S. Treasury was provided an allotment to assist Mac and Mae. That assistance is being used, and the Treasury is allowed to spend $100 million. That sounds expensive to me; I'd note it.
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The gaffes will come. This one isn't it. -
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Osbama_lin_BidenComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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Beau78901 year, 4 months ago
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lfergie8121 year, 4 months ago
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Unfortunately Beau7890 you're right. They look at the "applause" sign and clap their hands without knowing that the statement is utterly false. But hey, she is a Republican and when was the last time they ever got their fact right?
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lfergie8121 year, 3 months ago
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Spin I'm afraid you're wrong because she said Fannie was taxpayer funded which they aren't. Giving them a bailout does not make them taxpayer funded because government agencies are taxpayer funded and Fannie is not a government agency
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And as far as covering their loses, that would only be if congress and the president approve a bill to do so. That is not a sure thing for every lending agency. If you're thinking about the F.D.I.C., they only covers deposits.
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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protoham1 year, 4 months ago
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Just like Social Security, Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac (Where in the heck did they come up with these names?) should never exist in a free society.
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This is going to cost us Big Time, the estimate I saw was $14,000.00 per household. They will get it one way or another, either taxes or inflation.
Bend Over!-
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FSU92grad1 year, 4 months ago
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In free markets, like we have here in America and Osama opposes, is best to let them fail....I mean, does anyone come to the rescue of other companies when they go under? Hell no ! We shouldn't have to reach deep into our pockets for goverment mistakes...Sorry...But you lose...
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Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were brainchild's of Clinton and thus do I really need to say more ?
Anything government touches or tries to manage, they all end up in the crapper, Welfare is just one of them....
And the libs believe taxing people more and giving more money to the politicians is a good thing ? Why exactly ? They can't even manage Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.....
No thanks, I'd rather keep my money....-
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quackpot1 year, 4 months ago
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Perhaps you should say less, not more, FSU.
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Fannie Mae was founded BEFORE CLINTON WAS BORN!
What crushed these two publicly traded corporations was the economic pressure that resulted from the deregulatory free-for-all of the past seven-plus years of Republican administration/congress-
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FSU92grad1 year, 4 months ago
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You know what I mean, Tangent....
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Bush passes gas and it ends up causing global warming....
Everything bad that happens in the US and abroad is Bush's fault, not having another 9/11-type attack and giving almost 9 Billion dollars in aide to Africa is somebody else's fault....
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UnusualSuspect1 year, 4 months ago
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I don't blame Bush for Katrina, but I do put some of the blame on him for reacting too slow...
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As for the world hating us...well, I'm sure parts of the world hated us before Bush was in office, but many more have joined in since Bush was elected...
Which is why when Obama is elected, he'll try to talk more with our neighbors, and instead of pandering to them, as many feel he'll do, or stand aloof from them like Bush did, we'll have better communications.
Obama/Biden 08! -
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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you always manage an answer, I'll give you that
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I thought you were just using a reverse timeline blame Clinton thing like with 9/11
9/11 happened after Clinton
the FM's happened before
If it was me I'd just 'whoops. I was wrong'
of course if you think about it, Katerina DID happen during Bush's watch, but it's not his fault
wait a minute now I"m confused-
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FSU92grad1 year, 4 months ago
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Me too....
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And yes, I will agree "whoops, I was wrong" is quite appropriate for my comment on Clinton and Fannie Mae and Freddie being his "brainchild"....
I'm not sure what I was thinking on that....But as usual, US and quack were RIGHT there to call me out...
Give me some credit for admitting a "slip of the tongue"....
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altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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UnusualSuspect1 year, 4 months ago
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And how many other areas are there that she simply doesn't know about, considering she could be sitting in the "big seat"?
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Bill O'Reilly said last night he has high hopes of getting an interview with her. I can't wait to see that one...
Question her, people...please, question her hard...-
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UnusualSuspect1 year, 4 months ago
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Even conservative analysts acknowledged that the statement simply did not hold true.
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"Heretofore, if the treasury had a balance sheet there would have been a liability but there was never a taxpayer payment before [the bailout]," said Gerald P. O'Driscoll, an economist with the Cato Institute. "[Fannie and Freddie] were not taxpayer funded. They had taxpayer guarantee, which is worth something, especially in the stock market..."
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not2needy1 year, 4 months ago
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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Sh!t from shinola?
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As Fred Smith, president of the Washington, D.C-based Competitive Enterprise Institute, has noted, these financial beasts are a textbook example of “profit-side capitalism and loss-side socialism.” When things go right for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, they keep the profits. But when things go wrong, taxpayers — not just private shareholders, managers, and employees — will be on the hook.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae each receive $2.25 billion lines of credit with the U.S. Treasury. These special pipelines give the institutions an implied federal guarantee available to no other private sector competitors in the mortgage market. That protection makes them immune to the costs normally associated with riskier and riskier behavior. Moreover, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not required to pay state and local income taxes. The two corporations receive an estimated $10 billion a year in hidden taxpayer subsidies.
Sorry, no gaffe.-
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Tangent0011 year, 4 months ago
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Yes, gaffe. A line of credit is not an appropriation or a subsidy, it's not even a budget line item.
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There are no 'hidden subsidies' either. Mae and Mac get to work under laxer rules and the VALUE of those benefits are around $10 billion. Again, there has been NO COST TO THE TAXPAYER until now.
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lfergie8121 year, 4 months ago
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John McCain stated that he did not think the government should help people that are losing their homes but jumped at the opportunity to help the companies that put the buyers in the position to lose their homes. Go figure. If they would have stopped the large increase in oil by releasing some of the strategic reserve earlier, people wouldn't be losing their homes.
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BTW Has anyone noticed how the price of gasoline is coming down just before election?? Just like two years ago. LMAO-
altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned3 Replies
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AntiNeoCon1 year, 4 months ago
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altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned7 Replies
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vor1 year, 4 months ago
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After seeing the clips of her speaking at her church that are posted on You Tube I don't just disagree with this woman I am alarmed by her! Her state isn't right until its residents are right with God! And there is no wiggle room as to which God she refers, it is a purely Christian version? She then asks them to pray for the funding of a huge natural gas pipeline. This is so far from a Jeffersonian view of America it should alarm every right thinking citizen.
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She comes off like a bad comedienne as well. Fine for her to be spouting such drivel to kids and adults in her church but she is the governor of the state for crying out loud! (and was at the time these tapes were made)
A reformer? Her views suggest she would like to reform America into a Christian theocracy. As if such people would be any more tolerant than the Taliban if they took the reins of power. The only difference is that they would have that stupid crocodile smile mask that she continually wears. I see that same smile everyday at work worn by the self righteous drones these beliefs produce.-
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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Think about it.
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You don't speak in front of a church as a member and say, "It's ok that people don't know God. I'm happy with that." You have to remember the context, but as you've not been to church, I know that's hard, so I understand.
Part of Christian ideology is that everyone should be saved because Christ loves the saved AND the unsaved.
It's not alarming and NO, she's not interested in creating a theocracy as that's not part of Christian ideology.-
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vor1 year, 4 months ago
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She is the governor of the state! When she refers to citizens of her state as not being "right with God". That is scary, theocratic talk! And it won't be ignored. Many of us will never be "right with God" in her eyes! Clearly that is her belief. The fact she is saying this in a church makes little real difference. Her beliefs are hers, mine are mine. I don't want an elected official telling me what is spiritually right or wrong. Whether she simply believes that in her heart or says it on the campaign trail.
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At best Jesus was a human made part of God by myth, at worst he didn't exist at all. I arrived at those conclusions from as much if not far more research than she has done.
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spkguy1 year, 4 months ago
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"A John McCain campaign aide tells Jay Carney that she sees no reason why Sarah Palin should have to answer reporters' queries:
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According to Nicole Wallace of the McCain campaign, the American people don't care whether Sarah Palin can answer specific questions about foreign and domestic policy. According to Wallace -- in an appearance I did with her this morning on Joe Scarborough's show -- the American people will learn all they need to know (and all they deserve to know) from Palin's scripted speeches and choreographed appearances on the campaign trail and in campaign ads.
Did you get that...
According to Nicole Wallace of the McCain campaign, the American people don't care whether Sarah Palin can answer specific questions about foreign and domestic policy. AND The American people will learn all they need to know (and all they deserve to know).
The McCain campaign says you don't care whether Palin can answer specific questions and they the McCain campaign will decide what you need to know!
ISN'T THAT SPECIAL!
WTF! ONE HEART BEAT AWAY! -
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vor1 year, 4 months ago
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She is going to have to answer ?'s and some tough ones at that. Maybe her supporters will continue to support her but the rest of us need to have a chance to fairly evaluate her. She can't live in a cocoon and then be hatched on Election Day. Too likely a succubus might appear, certainly not a butterfly.
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Spinward1 year, 4 months ago
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What are you talking about? She nailed it.
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The two corporations receive an estimated $10 billion a year in hidden taxpayer subsidies.
Does anyone here on the left actually research this stuff or are you so anxious to find a gaffe that you'll jump at anything?-
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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GS
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maybe if someone answered spinward's assertion about PUBLIC taxpayers FUNDING these two corporations he'd stop repeating himself
thus far, no one has
I wonder why....
usually silence in such cases means someone has a good argument
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and whether he goes after the people who authorized it is a irrelevant to the principle point-
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miklkit1 year, 4 months ago
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It's really irrelevant. The FDIC is going to need a bailout soon too. Palin is complaining that the costs of the republicon deregulation of the banking industry is too high. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Look at this graph. Our banks are broke.
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http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BOGNON...-
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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I meant irrelevant to the point of spinward's repeated posts
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paper don't have a lot of value, and people been screwing with that value for what? almost 100 years?
a collapse of some kind is coming.
like those that manipulated us into position for that collapse, I just hope it's not in my lifetime -
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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I like to think of myself as non-partisan, so when I see someone from across the way making sense I like to walk over and stand by them
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I don't get to do it often enough, so I enjoy it when I get the chance
thanks appreciated but unnecessary
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Tangent0011 year, 4 months ago
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Perhaps if you researched a little more than visiting a couple of spin blogs you'd know that Mae and Mac get NO subsidies at all. They get laxer rules for operating their businesses that are VALUED at around $10 billion, but there has been NO cost to the taxpayer.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_National_Mort...
"The FNMA receives no direct federal government aid. However, the corporation and the securities it issues are widely believed to be implicitly backed by the U.S. government. In 1996, the Congressional Budget Office wrote "there have been no federal appropriations for cash payments or guarantee subsidies. "" -
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german-shepard1 year, 3 months ago
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As I was saying to a-e,
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I was not talking about partisan politics, but about corrupt capitalists. It is interesting that gwhiddon automatically thought I was talking about Republicans which is understandable. I don't think the Demos or Repubs had anything directly to do with it, but the two at the top did, and they got the ax. However, I wonder if it ends there.
All of the rest of you better cool it and try to figure out what went wrong so we can all finally sleep on our fortunes we're making by contributing to this thread.
G.S.
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altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned3 Replies
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ic0n291 year, 4 months ago
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Oh my, I can't wait until she is in a debate with Biden. How will she blame the media then (there is no doubt in my mind she'll find a way), lmao. You righties can't even fool yourselves, but we all know why you're defending this idiot. The unspoken truth...
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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Reading Comprehension 101 - Please feel free to take notes.
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FTA:
""gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers"
Headline of story: "Claims Fannie/Freddie Are Taxpayer Funded "
Summation: The headline can not support the story because it is not the same as, congruent to or even similar.
Expensive can mean many things. You see, Fannie and Freddie have hidden taxpayer subsidies inherent in there make-up. They each have a line of credit per year to the tune 2.25 billion dollars, backed by the good name of American taxpayers. That's expensive isn't it?
Fannie and Freddie each pay lobbyist (approximately 170 million dollars worth) to support their cause in Washington. Since they are not in a competitive market situation, why is this money spent? It could be shown as a profit and delay the need for intervention. Expensive to the taxpayer.
Fannie and Freddie pay no state or local taxes which are called subsidies and these can be expensive to the taxpayer.-
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altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned2 Replies
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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FTA:
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"Meanwhile, as Baker noted, as of July the two lenders were being offered low market interest rates by the fed again, theoretically, at the taxpayer's expense. But, he added, "I kind of doubt she had any sense of that.""
Why would he think she has no sense of that? Does he think women are dumb and incapable of knowing things?-
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lfergie8121 year, 4 months ago
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"Why would he think she has no sense of that?"
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Maybe it's not common knowledge in Alaska. All the people have been told is that they would get help but that does not make them taxpayer funded. Government agencies are taxpayer funded. Not profit making organizations as banks. A bail out does not make them taxpayer funded. Get real.-
altruisms-enemyComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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lovemylibs1 year, 4 months ago
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lfergie8121 year, 4 months ago
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People could lose their homes if they aren't protected but why protect shareholders? That's what investments are about. You take a chance when you invest into a company. If they were to protect the shareholders of Fannie/Freddie then they would be obligated to give money to the Enron losers.
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simonsez1 year, 4 months ago
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Exactly why a 28% capital gains tax is unfair. You work all your life, save a little money, invest it in something you think would be relatively safe and lose it. Too late to earn it again ...
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I don't own it, but I'm betting a lot of mutual funds and pension funds have tons of it.
We pay for everything that happens in one way or another.
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most_reasonableComment removed: Spam
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most_reasonable1 year, 4 months ago
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Will Palin be giving her next interview in TONGUES?
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If she winds up in the Whitehouse and on the red phone, will the recipient of her call understand TONGUES?
http://usreligion.blogspot.com/2008/08/by-john-fea... -
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most_reasonable1 year, 4 months ago
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Let's not forget that it was McCain's economic adviser the one that has called Americans whiners about the economy that has led America down the path to Fannie Mae insovency.
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Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. One provision of the bill was referred to as the "Enron loophole" because the House Agriculture Committee drafted it and it was later applied to Enron. Some critics blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur. At the time, Gramm's wife was previously on Enron's board of director
Later in his Senate career, Gramm spearheaded efforts to pass banking reform laws, including the landmark Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, which served to reduce government regulations in existence since the Great Depression separating banking, insurance and brokerage activities.
Years later, critics of Gramm point out that this same legislation may have been pivotal in encouraging the corporate practices that led to the 2008 mortgage crises in America. -
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saneman1 year, 4 months ago
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"Fannie Mae receives no direct government funding or backing; Fannie Mae securities carry no government guarantee of being repaid. This is explicitly stated in the law that authorizes GSEs, on the securities themselves, and in many public communications issued by Fannie Mae."
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"Neither the certificates nor payments of principal and interest on the certificates are guaranteed by the United States government. The certificates do not constitute a debt or obligation of the United States or any of its agencies or instrumentalities other than Fannie Mae."-
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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''"Fannie Mae receives no direct government funding or backing;''
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'direct'
*sniff sniff*
I smell semantics
if as a taxpayer my money takes the scenic route to its destination and not the expressway, all I care about is still where it ends up-
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saneman1 year, 4 months ago
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Name me one corporation which isn't subsidized by the taxpayers? Let's see, the airline companies, absolutely; the oil companies, obviously; agriculture companies, without a doubt; textile companies, always; etc. I could go on forever. The problem is that there is an enormous amount of corporate welfare in the U.S. and I am against any kind of welfare. It seems that the Repubs love giving money to corporations.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 4 months ago
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agree with you
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my point is it's a stretch to jump on what Palin said as a 'gaffe'
the gaffes will come, be patient and pick solid ones
you'll notice one of the early posts says something like, 'you know that's not what she meant'
once we start thru that semantic jungle [think 'typical' white person] we're liable to get tangled up in the vines of self-deceit or fall into the quicksand of partisan rhetoric
[not sure what that means, but I like the sound of it]
anyway I may have a noise for semantics but I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about economics
I do understand that there's an intersection between corporate interest and government where a taxpayer is liable to get run over
Captain Metaphor away!
*flies off into the distance* -
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Osbama_lin_BidenComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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pt109rick1 year, 4 months ago
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It makes no difference if Gov Palin knows anything. I hope she wears tighter dresses. Sex sells and will probably win McCain this election. You've got to give McCain credit, he learned that from watching Record sales after a Rap video is made with those type women in them.
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simonsez1 year, 4 months ago
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Both entities are in the business of buying mortgages from private lenders. Where the hell do you think the money comes from to do that? From profits? Hardly.
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This is where sub-prime began ... Democrats forcing both to be responsive to lower income people wanting mortgages. Many areas of cities were red-lined and private lenders wouldn't lend money there without government guarantees.
So ... you want to help the poor until it hurts ...-
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simonsez1 year, 4 months ago
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There aren't 20 people in the whole country that understand how these entities work.
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They are immeasurable black boxes of hocus pocus ... with platitudes coming out of one end and crapola falling out the backside.
Typical Government. I will say that there are tons of folks who wouldn't have a mortgage if they didn't exist.
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neilkent1 year, 4 months ago
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That was no gaffe, that was ultimately the absolute truth!!!!!
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The media are idiots!! Maybe if the gaffes that come out their mouths could be monitored and ultimately paid directly from their pockets, they would get the concept.
TAXPAYERS are on the HOOK!!!!! Who do you think the Congress and Senate make pay for their mistakes.
GO BACK TO SCHOOL, LEARN SOMETHING, ANYTHING that makes SENSE. Those in the media don't have a clue, they just want you to think they do. -
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simonsez1 year, 4 months ago
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Anyone want to explain credit default swaps? Maybe Obama or Joe or even John could.
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I doubt it though ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/business/09credi...-
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quackpot1 year, 4 months ago
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The BIG problem is the statement at the end:
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"If bonds rally and trade close to par, recovery could be close to 100 percent"
In today's foreclosure-heavy market that is a VERY big "if". The low probability of that "if" being true is the very reason that these tow companies have gone belly up.
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stacylohanComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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Osbama_lin_BidenComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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markmawn21 year, 4 months ago
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By the same argument, you could say that Wal-Mart is taxpayer funded. Meaning, if you are a tax paying citizen and you spend your money in Wal-Mart, then Wal-Mart is tax payer funded.
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History is going to paint this era as the most shallow in history. -
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/07/11/busi...
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This is a synopsis of Fannie Mae. Its downfall, as well as Freddie Macs, was the deregulation of the lending industry. One of McCain's advisors helped that deregulation come to pass,. Soooo, unscrupulous lenders gave loans they shouldn't have, took their profit off the top, bundled up their poor loans and sold them to Fannie & Freddie. Fannie and Freddie guarantee loans will be paid, trusting the integrity of the lenders who gave the loans. When we had regulation, unscrupulous lenders didn't want to go to jail, so it worked out well in the past. This is a stellar example of where deregulation leads us.
Oh, and by the way. Ron Paul & McCain want even MORE deregulation. -
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Hobe1 year, 4 months ago
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McCain is a 26 year Do-Nothing Corrupt Senator ala the Keating Five that cost Hard working Americans Billions of Tax Dollars... John is a Multi Millioniar als second wife Cindy Budwizer Druggie...
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These two may have less Ethics than BJ bill and hillary clinton???
Palin is just a BIG Mouth woman who will say and do anything for votes....
Palin is against a Woman's Right To Choose even if INCEST and RAPE is Present???
Palin is also Against HoMosexual Marrige???
A Corrupt Senaror, Cindy a super wealthy white woman Druggie 'ala Budwizer' and Palin a Loose cannon, Not the best choice for all Democrats....
America a deserves better choices.... -
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jordan111 year, 4 months ago
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Making money off of taxpayer dollars (the interest rate on mortgages) is a good thing. Giving Americans access to home ownership which grows their wealth is also a good thing. It helps the economy as the value of homes grow, and it helps the individual to achieve the American dream.
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For 70 years this has been good for our country. No longer. The deregulation of the lending industry has let the predatory lenders crawl out from under their rocks, write bad loans, and sell them to Fannie and Freddie. Deregulation is the child of the conservatives. Ms palin doesn't know WTF she's talking about. But hey, voter her in. I've got mine, and will just sit back and laugh while the fools go down even further. Maybe they can find a way to keep saying but, but, but, but, CLINTON!-
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lfergie8121 year, 3 months ago
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jordan11
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I agree 100%. I can only cast one vote but one thing is certain, with McCain following the same policies as Bush, it's not going to get any better. I have earned my money the old fashion way through hard work while Clinton was in office and the economy was great. My only fear is the lost of buying power because of poor Republican policies so let the lemmings vote for the same policies and see where it gets them. I bet 95% of the people cannot truthfully say they are better off now than they were in 2001.-
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jordan111 year, 3 months ago
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It's a shame that innocent people will be hurt by the CONS. I wish to god only the stupid asses who vote for them would have to pay. Maybe the states with brains will stop paying federal taxes that subsidize those moron states when the bottom falls out. One thing is for sure. It's getting to the point that playing nice isn't going to cut it any more, and the left had better find its guts and get MAD.
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jordan111 year, 3 months ago
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If we continue to lose our financial superpower status, we would all be better off somewhere else. People are so naive that they think national security is only about guns and the military, when we could go down in a heartbeat simply by losing that financial standing.
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