There's No Arguing With Conservatives ... No, Seriously, Scientific Studies Prove It »
Posted By Wil 9 months, 3 weeks ago in Political NewsA new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.
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Wil
I was a Propeller Scout, and I ran the Geeks Group. AOL sent me to the land of Wind and Ghosts, though, so I don ...
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libsRfunnyComment removed: User banned.
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This is hilarious. A very liberal institution finds that hardcore liberals can't change a conservatives mind about core beliefs. What news. How about the reverse. Do the hard core liberals take seriously anything that Conservatives try to present. Somehow I don't think so.
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The one subject that was covered was a study that shows there were no WMD found. The only problem is that as of 2006 there were over 600 found and many Conservatives know this. So why would they believe a report like that. How many liberals will admit that there were over 600 WMD's found? They will stonewall with that report and others like it. Why does neither side look at ALL of the evidence.
Another subject had a paper that said that there no increase in Revenues when taxes are cut. The problem is that most conservatives have heard about the fact that a 19% increase in revenues happened after the tax cuts. A paper saying something that many know to be false against the fact that the Bush administration said that it happened and there is an actual amount of increase. The Bush tax cut brought a 19% revenue increase. A fact of life is that since Kennedy every time the tax is raised the revenue goes down and every time the tax is lowered the revenue goes up. Kennedy knew it but liberals today don't believe it. Again the study tries to make believe these people operate in a vacuum.
Here is a problem that the people doing this don't even realize how they are biased.
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The typical mantra of the left is that we don't need to sink to the Republicans' level because we have the truth on our side. But if the other side is utterly immune to the truth -- and indeed, the truth only makes them dig deeper into their fantasy world in which the economy is fundamentally strong and the War in Iraq is a staggering success -- what's a leftie to do?
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Why is it that the left believes they are the only holders of truth? I have seen so many in the media and here on Propeller tell lies and believe it is the truth. Gore won, Supreme Court gave the election to Bush, Bush lied, then there is the big list of lies about Palin.
The real study should have been whether or not either side can change the mind of the other side. Let ALL of the evidence be presented to a group of half conservatives and half liberals and see what each side ends up believing. The real problem is making sure that the information is not slanted towards one side or the other or if it is then a balance of half going one way and half going the other way. -
altruisms-enemyComment removed: User banned.
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epiphannyy9 months, 3 weeks ago
Maybe this should serve as a lesson to those of us who try to fight this fight with facts and figures, because we are met with the closed mind of those unwilling to face any fact that doesn't fit their own agenda. Maybe this explains why, despite the facts out there that McCain fully intends to continue down the same road as Bush, there is still little difference in the polls between him and Obama. Maybe we should change our tactics and ignore the conservative base because the more we try to make them understand, the more they dig in their heels. Maybe we should instead focus on the fence sitters who aren't so entrenched in stupidity that facts and figures will make sense to them and perhaps they'll see what is most obvious to the rest of us. I certainly don't want to lose this election because we forced the ignorant to dig their heels in because they felt threatened by facts that intimidated them. I'd rather let them live in ignorance and sway the uncommitted instead.
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not2needy9 months, 3 weeks ago
We can't fight them with facts.. When we tell them something and back it up with proof, they won't even look at the proof..
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They're happy in their dreamstate, and to disrupt it only angers instead of enlightens them.
FTA:
Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.
Also FTA:
The typical mantra of the left is that we don't need to sink to the Republicans' level because we have the truth on our side. But if the other side is utterly immune to the truth -- and indeed, the truth only makes them dig deeper into their fantasy world in which the economy is fundamentally strong and the War in Iraq is a staggering success -- what's a leftie to do?
There's nothing we can do to get them to understand.. I know MANY conservatives that still maintain that there were WMD in Iraq, even though Bush has admitted that there was none. They can't be wrong about anything, EVER!
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crespi9 months, 3 weeks ago
We have seen this a thousand times on propeller, where Neocon Republicans push 2 or 3 bald-faced lies.
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Then, when reasonable people take the time to factually disprove the lies, the Cons don't admit being wrong but instead throw in 2 or 3 MORE bald-faced lies that need to be disproven, and again and again and again until they wear down the best intentioned logical person.-
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not2needy9 months, 3 weeks ago
crespi, i have said this a thousand times and i will say it again and again.. conservatives will defend another conservative's right to flush this country down the toilet, and curse a Liberal for trying to save it.
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They hate paying a taxes, they think that only Liberals should pay taxes, but they should have all the money. No logic to the way they think.. They scream about this being the greatest nation in the world, but don't want to pay their share to keep it running. They will go back decades in an effort to find some liberal they can blame for the woes we are suffering today.
The cons on prop all try to act like they are all in the 1 or 2 percent of the most wealthy, when in fact,,, I know for a fact that some of the most outspoken ones are living on the govt dime.. WELFARE! The majority of the cons on Propeller are no better off than the libbies are, in fact there are many of them that aren't as well off financially.
When i was a social worker, one thing i was required to do was register people to vote, if they wanted to... The majority of them registered republican! I know many republicans who are out of work, don't want to work, and they count on the republicans to keep them out of work.. Bottom line. -
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
How about the multitudinous lies that the liberals tell.
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Gore won
The Supreme court gave the election to Bush
Bush lied
Kerry won
Bush is a criminal
Bush has destroyed the constitution
Republicans are responsible for the cost of Gas
Republicans are responsible for the sub prime mess
Palin has less experience than Obama
Lies galore about Palin
Her son is her grand son
She banned books
etc.
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
You never seem to want to tell the truth. Only the very biased liberal mantras that many times have no foundation in fact. A major problem is that liberals want to argue from emotion while conservative want to argue from logic.
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We ignore the emotional appeals that are not supported by logic.
You ignore the basic logic leaving the emotions out.
Therefore we seem to talk past each other.
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Will13139 months, 3 weeks ago
crespi
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It's the only thing that reaches them and is apparently what they WANT
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why give them what they want.. you lose..
when you 'ressle with a pig in the mud.. you get dirty and the pig enjoys it..-
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crespi9 months, 3 weeks ago
When a dirty, rotten, vicious owlhoot gunslinger says "Draw" I blast 'im.
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I leave the petting of rattlers to liberals...
Backing down from bullies has cost this country many of the freedoms the Founding Fathers worked their lives for.
You won't fight for those ORIGINAL PATRIOTS, or the Constitution?
Don't worry, I WILL...
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Will1313Comment removed: Spam
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MurphyStoutComment removed: User banned.
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Charlson9 months, 3 weeks ago
"When arguing with conservatives in front of on-the-fence independents, remember that you're not trying to convince the conservative to actually buy into silly notions like facts and reason. You're highlighting the differences between left and right for the outside observer. If the other guy insists on political views that belong only in Disney World's Fantasyland, other folks will realize what's happening."
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This is at least a sane reason to argue with insane people. Other independent minded spectators may be able to discern the difference between facts and fiction and then make up their own minds on who to believe.-
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
What liberals usually use is emotional appeals. Help the "needy" etc. Never counting the cost and defining who is really needy. Statistics are usually to prove how heartless conservatives are for ignoring the "needy" people. The argument for liberals goes at an upper plane. Conservatives want definitions about who is really needy and how much this will cost. We have found over the years that the bleeding heart liberals want to help everybody at a huge cost. They never look at what their programs will do to people.
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Poor Blacks were very family oriented in the 60's. Then came ADC. Girls with a child could move out and get an apartment of their own etc. If they needed more money then just have another kid. A trickle in the poor black areas turned into a flood. They finally put on a brake about how many kids they could get extra money for. Today in the poor black area the guys go around bragging about how many kids they have and the girls get apartments and money for having kids out of wedlock. Remember that a man can't live there and the girl get money.
Liberals never stop to think how people will change how they do things because of money. Why not. This program was mashed in my face while I was a foster parent in the Detroit Metro area. I went from liberal to conservative over that program. Liberals never think about unintended consequences. They happen and "Oh well!"
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cleare9 months, 3 weeks ago
i don't expect to change the fixated minds of the neocon apologists on propeller. but i do hope to reach some of the readers and lurkers who may not post much, but are there in great numbers.
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i'm hoping the same is true in the real world, that non-combatants (independents) are paying attention to the truth and not letting themselves be spun hither and yon. -
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kobzikov9 months, 3 weeks ago
Only if you're trying to change someone's mind.
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If on the other hand, you want to demonstrate that the opposing argument is specious or fallacious for those who aren't familiar with the argument or for those who have an open mind, then countering someone's argument is an extremely worthy cause.
And if whoever you are debating with is open to the possibility of being wrong, then even if you might not change their mind by debating them you might make them think and question their erroneous positions and long-held preconceptions. And I think that's a good thing.
In the process you might also realize that your positions aren't sufficiently strong or might find even more evidence for them and learn something new in the process of reinforcing your argument with additional research. So often debates not only aren't a total loss, but are a net gain if not for the opposing side, then for those unfamiliar with the positions and yourself if you learn something in the process. -
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kobzikov9 months, 3 weeks ago
My other comment was meant as a reply to ameliog.
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ameliog: "It's why debates are often not worth the bother."
I couldn't reply to his comment directly. It seems that Propeller doesn't like me today. -
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chevydog9 months, 3 weeks ago
kobzikov --
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I know the feeling. I've posted several replies, and propeller just goes "huh?" and ignores them.
Stupid liberal / conservative computer! (take your choice) -
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chuck-the-canuck9 months, 3 weeks ago
McCain claims that America’s best days are ahead of them. The only way that would be true is if by some miracle, all the ultra right-wing republicans and the religious right, dropped dead right on the spot.
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I don’t say this lightly. It has become apparent that it will be either us or them. It seems that the only thing they understand is brute force. Maybe it’s time someone gave them some.-
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
McCain warned about the Fannie Mae nd Freddy Mac mess coming that would cost the tax payers a bunch of money. But Obama, Clinton, Dodd, Frank, and other Democrats would not vote for the reform needed. It was "HANDS OFF" of those institutions. Those Democrats had received very large donations form those organizations. Dodd got the biggest chunk with Clinton and Obama coming in second and third. They took their money and did what was asked. Great leaders.
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Your candidate. Who was correct in this case?
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pc259 months, 3 weeks ago
we tend to look at it this way
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http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2008/09/modern_l...
Modern Liberalism Is A Form Of Mental Illness
In case you need a book to tell you what you already know, Dr. Lyle Rossiter, Jr., M.D., wrote a book about modern liberalism's irrationality being the product of psychopathology: a massive transference neurosis acted out in the world's political arenas, with devastating effects on the institutions of liberty:
"So extravagant are the patterns of thinking, emoting, behaving and relating that characterize the liberal mind that its relentless protests and demands become understandable only as disorders of the psyche." The Liberal Mind reveals the madness of the modern liberal for what it is: a massive transference neurosis acted out in the world's political arenas, with devastating effects on the institutions of liberty.
This makes complete sense and explains the Liberal thinking and behavior that defies any other explanation.-
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flyonthewallzz9 months, 3 weeks ago
Both this strory and Dr. Lyle Rossiter, Jr., M.D., are full of crap.
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Charlson9 months, 3 weeks ago
The CONS have got us to where we are now, not liberals. You can keep on blaming liberals when most people know it's you CONS who have been in power the last seven years. And you've managed to mess up our country in that time and now want four more years of the same. What kind of hallucinogens are you taking?
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GLee9 months, 3 weeks ago
Gosh....... I hope some new readers run across this thread. It will shead quite a bit of light on 'argumentative liberals'. Good luck....
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bigurn9 months, 3 weeks ago
This article declares a cause and effect relationship between the belief and the refutation. It assumes that the refutation is the truth and is inarguable.
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The problem lies in the potential that the refutation is not the truth, or is arguable. In either of these cases, the refutation would only prove to bolster the original claim and would improve the argument for the cause and not against it.
Case 1: 552 cylinders of Sarin gas and VX were indeed found in Iraq. They lacked a dispersant, but are both considered weapons of mass distruction.
Case 2: 2007 tax receipts set a record. The previous record was 2006 tax receipts. These receipts came on the heels of the tax rebate checks, thus relating the cause and effect relationship of lowering taxes to tax receipts.
Also the JFK years proved this as well. JFK lowered taxes in his short Presidency, and tax receipts rose.-
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flyonthewallzz9 months, 3 weeks ago
Sorry Bigurn:
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I have been doing a biit of reading.
I could find the sources if pressed.
Taxes where not cut while Kennedy was a living President.
There have been very few exceptions to an increase in Government Reciepts.
The years between 2000 and 2005 are dramatic exceptions.
As are the years directly followig the Reagan Tax cuts.
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jordan119 months, 3 weeks ago
My brother and I got into it last night over Palin and the bridge to nowhere. He said she never advocated for it. I emailed the proof (from her mouth) that she did. So he called back and said "well, she gave the money back." I said no she didn't. He said she did. So, I emailed him a link to show she kept it. He called me back and said "well so what, she used it for their infrastructure anyway." Amazing.
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Endoscopy9 months, 3 weeks ago
What you ignore is that for a while she was for it but then changed her mind. The money was then not dedicated to any project and at that point it was not an earmark. An earmark is money that has to be spent on a particular project. She then took the money and used it for infrastructure use. By doing that she sunk the Bridge to Nowhere. Why would she give money not an earmark back?
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