Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death." »
Posted By Klarissa 1 year, 1 month ago in ReligionVatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research.
But now that the Vatican' s highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke , we can expect things to get more explicit in Vatican City — at least when when it comes to U.S. politics.
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Klarissa
Berkeley conservative. Don't ask to be my friend unless you have a real bio.Eat your dessert first, life is uncertain. Bridge player, water ...
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Klarissa1 year, 1 month ago
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Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican’s Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked “transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues.” He then attacked two of the party’s most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.
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He said Biden and Pelosi, “while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way.”-
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buckncindykill1 year, 1 month ago
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Those who accuse presidential aspirant Sen. Barack Obama of empty rhetoric must have missed his speech last July, recently made public, to the benefactors of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund. At that festive event, he was as sharp and specific as a scalpel.
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"The first thing I'd do as president," he told a cheering audience, "is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do."
The audience cheered enthusiastically. And well they might. As NARAL enthuses on its website, this act would "codify Roe v. Wade's protections and guarantee the right to choose for future generations of women."
In short, if we are to take Obama at his word, his first priority as president would be to serve an early death sentence on millions of unborn Americans. -
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Well Klarissa, the Catholic church is full of all kinds of people and all kinds of policies.
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For example, in Spain (a REALLY catholic country) almost 25% of priests are married - and it has been that way for centuries.
The catholic position on abortion changes regularly.
Early church permitted abortion in some cases
By Emily O'Reilly
Those of you under the age of four hundred and ten probably won't remember a time when the Roman Catholic church permitted abortion.
Just to clarify, given the semantic gyrations currently under way in the latest abortion debate, I mean abortion in the sense of the direct and intentional killing of the baby in the womb.
It's not something that's ever alluded to by anti-abortion activists, but any church historian will tell you that over the centuries Catholic popes and theologians have done more U-turns on this issue than you could shake a stick at.
The early Christian church eschewed abortion and turned its back on the old Aristotelian theory of `delayed ensoulment'. Aristotle had taught that a foetus has a vegetable soul that evolves into an animal soul later in pregnancy. Finally, the foetus is `animated' with a human soul.
In those pre-PC days, Aristotle also taught that `ensoulment' occurred at 40 days after conception for male foetuses, and 90 days after conception for female foetuses. Therefore, abortion was not condemned if performed early in pregnancy.
Aristotle came back into fashion in the 4th century when St Augustine wrote that a human soul cannot live in an unformed body.
In a letter to Aglasia (I don't know, so don't ask) from St Jerome, Jerome wrote, "The seed gradually takes shape in the uterus, and it [abortion] does not count as killing until the individual elements have acquired their external appearance and their limbs."
For the next few centuries, the Aristotelian ensoulment theory moved in and out of papal fashion. ...
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2001/10/07/sto... -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Oh Klarissa ... how sad.
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Klarissa, I remember when you came on board Netscape/Propeller, you came across as having an even keel ... as having some dignity about your world view.
But it seems your desperate hatred for Barack Obama has pushed you into the Agent of Division style of luvmyprez - OmegaGnosis - and now - redtomato.
Look, I wish I could convince you that this style is counter productive for your cause. Of course, the cause you appear to have taken up is one of extreme Moral Vacancy.
Think about it ... Neo-Conservatives FIGHT AGAINST health care for CHILDREN!
While they fight against Health Care for Children ... they FIGHT FOR sending our children to an arbitrary war ... a strategic blunder that has not only killed over 4,000 of our children ... but hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's.
Do you REALLY want to join forces with redtomato and the other Agents of Division?
Do you remember how Johnny McCain once called Jerry Falwell an Agent of Division? NOW, he seeks these preaching power mongers out for endorsements!
That is how low Johnny has had to sink ... how deeply he has had to sublimate his Moral Compass ... just to appease and pander to the redtomatos of this world.
Please think about what you are doing.
Sure, you don't like Obama ... I get it ... but the Hatred you are trying to foment .... is it really worth losing your Moral Compass ... like Johnny?
Is it Klarissa? -
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Tcaros1 year, 1 month ago
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The vatican is the administrative body of a religion that people follow in absence of God.
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They differ from other Christians in that they believe that the keeping of "sacraments" is an acceptable offering to God. Other Christians believe that salvation is only through God's grace and believing what he promised, the sacrifice of his son is payment for all sins.
The pope is a man reqiuring the "grace of God" for salvation.
Other than that he's a man wearing a pointy hat.
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redtomatoComment removed: Spammer10 Replies
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djn3nunez31 year, 1 month ago
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buckncindykill1 year, 1 month ago
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Your last sentence describes what liberalism has done to the church over the past 40 years or so. Now however, Benedict is throwing down the gauntlet. We live in a “support lifestyle” here in America instead of a “support life” America.
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Even more than this Presidential election, Catholics need to come to grips with the theology of the church — not their cherry picking relativism. Once we do that, we'll be fine.
Humans can listen to the church again, once the church leaders embrace real catholicism instead of liberation theology. -
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Wolfie20071 year, 1 month ago
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FTA
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Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it. -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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As a Catholic, I can tell you that most of us read this fellow and yawn.
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Here's something that maybe some of you don't understand about Catholics. We were given good education.
We were taught to think.
To think independently.
Our broad education means that we were given a gift ... a gift of independent thought.
While we were infused with morals ... we were given the freedom to celebrate the uniqueness that God had granted us.
That is why many Christians have come to accept and support this notion of abortion: 'Safe, Legal, and Rare'.
Because we know that outlawing abortion would be the same as Prohibition. It would simply push abortion underground.
Abortions would still be performed ... on rich white young girls whose parents have enough money to send them to 'Betty Ford' type clinics ... ... ... and on the poor and middle class - who would be forced to have abortions done in deplorable conditions, possibly without medical expertise ... just like they used to before abortion was legalized.
Look, one of the most respected Right Wing Justices, Sandra Day O'Connor agrees with this position.
I realize my fellow Christian Conservatives are now desperate to dredge up every wedge issue they can muster ... but it's getting really tiresome.
Your candidate, Johnny McCain ... he's just so out of touch ... and his choice for VP shows that he makes rash, unconventional decisions.
And quite frankly, we Catholics find his plan to fork over many more billions to the wealthy in this nation is Moral Vacancy of the highest order. This is a major reason Catholics have come around to Obama. With Obama, at least you get a sense of Social Justice ... something that Catholics feel VERY strongly about.
America is done with the Morally Vacant Neo-Conservative ideology. You CANNOT legislate behavior ... a concept that Republicans USED to believe passionately. To thinking Americans, this should be a major clue that the Republican party is far ... Far ... FAR removed from it's roots.
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Klarissa, Karlyc, redtomato, Wolfie ... you can keep trying to throw up these wedge issues as diversion if you want to .... but I believe Americans are recognizing them for what they are ... profoundly pathetic.
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icono1Comment removed: Spam
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david_nwpa1 year, 1 month ago
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Yes, Pope Benedict the Nazi is surely one we should trust when it comes to life values. The Catholic Inquisition church is really pious. Would these be the same people who brought the world the crusades and an abhorrence to science? Benny and his church are far too hypocritical and patronizing to concern me.
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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david_nwpa1 year, 1 month ago
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Amazing to me how the Republicans are pro-life when the baby is in the womb, but as soon as the child is born, if born into poverty, the buck stops there. The Republicans are quick to stop welfare, not approve health care benefits for needy children, quick to stop needy mothers from getting the necessary nutrition for their children. The Republicans are quick to cut education and end of life benefits for veterans. They are hardly a "pro-life" party if they do not genuinely care about post-natal people.
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slate1 year, 1 month ago
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RIChrisComment removed: Retracted by user
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Wolfie20071 year, 1 month ago
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nwpa
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That tired all laundry list of why it's good to abort babies was worn out years ago. What does your alleged argument that conservatives don't care about "post-natal"people have to do with killing babies? Your argument is only based on supposition and opinion and not facts. So what does it have to do with killing babies?
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wildman65571 year, 1 month ago
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The Republicans are not pro life. They just say they are. Who do you think provided 5 of the 7 votes FOR Roe v Wade? Who do you think did virtually nothing when they controlled the House, the Senate and the President? Sure they voted to ban late term abortion, but even Biden voted for that.
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The Republicans need the Christian Right, but they give them almost nothing in return. What is worse, someone who says they are evil child killers and are evil child killers (Democrats) or those who say they are not evil child killer and are also evil child killers(Republicans). -
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tchef1 year, 1 month ago
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The last time we mixed church and state in this land that is now our country, several innocent people where hung and one crushed to death for being accused of being a witches. Study the history of the Catholic church itself and you will find numerous atrocities committed over the ages by them including torture, burning at the stake, rape, and pillage. All in the name of God. Who are they to be calling anyone the party of death. Didn't Jesus say "judge not lest ye also be judged"? It's in the Bible maybe they should read it.
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Locky ... I'd like to point out that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
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Also ... the majority of America disagrees with you.
Oh .. not that murder is wrong ... but that a sentient human being is being murdered.
Now you have an opinion based on a RELIGIOUS pov.
That's fine ... but when I look back on history (and present day) ... only TOTALITARIAN regimes - i.e. The Soviet Union, NAZI Germany, Afghanistan under the Taliban, Saudi Arabia ... only these countries legislated by the prevailing religious belief.
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Of course, when I include the Soviet Union ... I'm referring to my view that atheism, as a State Religion, is their Religion. And In NAZI Germany ... the religion was Aryan Supremacy.
I prefer to not have our nation join this collective.
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Om1 year, 1 month ago
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First Amendment of the US Constitution:
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. -
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Tcaros1 year, 1 month ago
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We knew McCain was reckless when we heard he crashed his plane 5 times before getting his wings.
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Who knows maybe the crash over VN was due to being "a maverick."
Anyway, it looks like he wants to take his next chance with our future. So do we step in the plane with him?
He's the one with the nine lives.
No way. I'm voting Obama. -
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nikkibabe1 year, 1 month ago
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Here is my take on state ban on abortions even in cases of rape, incest and the victim and rapist is of different races.
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. State to pay all medical expenses of the victim during pregnancy up to and including delivery.
. State to pay all expenses of baby care during infant and toddler years which includes, baby supplies, milk, nutrition, medical care etc.,
. State to pay all expenses of day care.
. State to pay all expenses of school and college up to graduation.
. State to pay all expenses until the person is able to get a job and make his/her own living.
If they cannot, State has no right to ban abortions. -
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albirotComment removed: Hard Banned
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lloydm651 year, 1 month ago
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Maybe it's me, but why belong to a Church,or an organisation if you don't agree with it's teaching.Pretty soon all you have a big building where you go to disagree with each other.Your love of Christ is nothing more than sounding symbols,and tinkling brass.Having a form of Godlyness,but denying the power there of.To expect a Pope,or a Priest to saction abortion is beyond reason.
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